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RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:38 am

Congratulations on your "Hockey Dad of the Year" award as well as your NHL career.....I mean your sons career.

Daulton911 · Post by **Daulton911** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:19 am

Must be from Edina, and play at MN Made.

justhavefun · Post by **justhavefun** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:24 am

ha ha ha

jBlaze3000 · Post by **jBlaze3000** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:43 am

Dumb.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:45 am

I am assuming that this thread was intending to incite a response from those who may think that gap control is an appropriate topic for a summer hockey program.

DMom · Post by **DMom** » Tue May 05, 2009 10:11 am

I heard you contacted a realtor the day after Minnesota Hockey failed to see the wisdom behind your proposal for open enrollment. Just as well you are moving, at least than if your son's dream doesn't come true, you won't have to run into all of the people who weren't good enough for your son to skate with, at the liquor store or the local watering hole.

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Tue May 05, 2009 10:28 am

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Tue May 05, 2009 10:30 am

Pretty funny post except for the backhanded shot at the AAA should be AA kids. No need to take a shot at the less talented. The fact is even the majority of true AAA players aren't getting to "the show" or D1 for that matter.

edit: sorry. I meant to say "majority of". Of course, there are some who do, but for the 99.7% who don't???

MoreCowBell · Post by **MoreCowBell** » Tue May 05, 2009 11:32 am

Thanks for the lecture, but I'm grooming my kid for the beer leagues.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue May 05, 2009 11:33 am

How many of these satirical posts have we already seen that are pretty much exactly like this one?

Funny, but not original at all.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:07 pm

I love my child and I do not want to see him fail.

Therefore, to comfort my own lack of self-esteem and avoid my thoughts of parental inadequacy, I will attempt to remove him from any and all forms of competition. I will congregate with other parents who love their children as I love mine. We will redefine mathematics and allow all children to be above average. We will create a world where everyone gets a medal, so no one feels bad; our goal is failure avoidance, so mission accomplished.

We recognize there will come a time when a competitive child infiltrates our circle of bubble-wrapped children. Our children will need to be protected from a child whose parent does not love him as we love ours. To continue protecting our children, we will need to seize control of all aspects of the alien child’s life, as we control our own. We will succeed in slowing the competitive child’s development, so our children can catch up; we will mutate games and sports to meet the needs of our own children until they are barely recognizable. We will warp well-intentioned programs like No Child Left Behind until they suit our own needs and become No Child Allowed Ahead.

My child is not really good at hockey, so instead of hockey we’ll play pom-pom-pull-away and kick soccer balls. When they do have pucks, we’ll play without rules, and we won’t keep score.

My child is not really good at baseball; at T-ball he’ll swing wildly, striking the tee 6-8 inches below the ball, and I will exclaim, “Nice swing”. When the coach finally tosses the ball into play and tells my boy to “run”, and he stumbles his way down the third base line, I will yell, “Good hustle!”

My child is not really good at school, so I’ll request he be place in the classroom with the teacher that gives everyone a P.

My child is not really prepared for life, so I’ll make him the heir apparent for taking over my company; I’ll pay him; or I’ll give him the money to start his own company. He won’t need to know the pain of an unsuccessful interview, of not getting a promotion. He won’t need to know the failure of not making a mortgage payment, so he’ll be welcome to continue to live in my house.

I love my child and I do not want to see him fail.

mnhkylvr · Post by **mnhkylvr** » Tue May 05, 2009 12:36 pm

Now THAT was good!

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:10 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:I love my child and I do not want to see him fail.

Therefore, to comfort my own lack of self-esteem and avoid my thoughts of parental inadequacy, I will attempt to remove him from any and all forms of competition. I will congregate with other parents who love their children as I love mine. We will redefine mathematics and allow all children to be above average. We will create a world where everyone gets a medal, so no one feels bad; our goal is failure avoidance, so mission accomplished.

We recognize there will come a time when a competitive child infiltrates our circle of bubble-wrapped children. Our children will need to be protected from a child whose parent does not love him as we love ours. To continue protecting our children, we will need to seize control of all aspects of the alien child’s life, as we control our own. We will succeed in slowing the competitive child’s development, so our children can catch up; we will mutate games and sports to meet the needs of our own children until they are barely recognizable. We will warp well-intentioned programs like No Child Left Behind until they suit our own needs and become No Child Allowed Ahead.

My child is not really good at hockey, so instead of hockey we’ll play pom-pom-pull-away and kick soccer balls. When they do have pucks, we’ll play without rules, and we won’t keep score.

My child is not really good at baseball; at T-ball he’ll swing wildly, striking the tee 6-8 inches below the ball, and I will exclaim, “Nice swing”. When the coach finally tosses the ball into play and tells my boy to “run”, and he stumbles his way down the third base line, I will yell, “Good hustle!”

My child is not really good at school, so I’ll request he be place in the classroom with the teacher that gives everyone a P.

My child is not really prepared for life, so I’ll make him the heir apparent for taking over my company; I’ll pay him; or I’ll give him the money to start his own company. He won’t need to know the pain of an unsuccessful interview, of not getting a promotion. He won’t need to know the failure of not making a mortgage payment, so he’ll be welcome to continue to live in my house.

I love my child and I do not want to see him fail.

\

BRILLIANT!!!!

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:26 pm

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:27 pm

Chuck wrote:Pretty funny post except for the backhanded shot at the AAA should be AA kids. No need to take a shot at the less talented. The fact is even the true AAA players aren't getting to "the show" or D1 for that matter.

Chuck, just for my own edification could you please tell me who is getting to "the show" or atleast D1. I swear each year I watch D1 hockey and it seems to be filled with alot of players from the lower 48 (and Alaska). Are these players hatched from some sort of high tech hockey pod as apparently they are not playing youth hockey at any level according to you. I just want to know where they are coming from and you seem to know. Thanks

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Tue May 05, 2009 3:52 pm

JSR wrote:
Chuck wrote:Pretty funny post except for the backhanded shot at the AAA should be AA kids. No need to take a shot at the less talented. The fact is even the true AAA players aren't getting to "the show" or D1 for that matter.
Chuck, just for my own edification could you please tell me who is getting to "the show" or atleast D1. I swear each year I watch D1 hockey and it seems to be filled with alot of players from the lower 48 (and Alaska). Are these players hatched from some sort of high tech hockey pod as apparently they are not playing youth hockey at any level according to you. I just want to know where they are coming from and you seem to know. Thanks

Sorry JSR. Typo. My point wasn't to neglect the fact that some do make it, but I would guess in some cases, those AAA should be AA players make it as well. I have edited my post accordingly.

I don't want to appear as if I am as cynical as the original poster. Hey, I'd love for my kid to "make it" and love that he can dream about it. I think we all agree though that we should be more pragmatic. I have a great research paper on the likelihood of a player in Ontario, making it to the NHL. I believe the numbers were something to the effect of 11 out of 2500 players who started out in minor hockey in a given year actually playing in the NHL at some point. But hey, we can all dream I suppose.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Tue May 05, 2009 4:07 pm

Chuck wrote:
JSR wrote:
Chuck wrote:Pretty funny post except for the backhanded shot at the AAA should be AA kids. No need to take a shot at the less talented. The fact is even the true AAA players aren't getting to "the show" or D1 for that matter.
Chuck, just for my own edification could you please tell me who is getting to "the show" or atleast D1. I swear each year I watch D1 hockey and it seems to be filled with alot of players from the lower 48 (and Alaska). Are these players hatched from some sort of high tech hockey pod as apparently they are not playing youth hockey at any level according to you. I just want to know where they are coming from and you seem to know. Thanks
Sorry JSR. Typo. My point wasn't to neglect the fact that some do make it, but I would guess in some cases, those AAA should be AA players make it as well. I have edited my post accordingly.

I don't want to appear as if I am as cynical as the original poster. Hey, I'd love for my kid to "make it" and love that he can dream about it. I think we all agree though that we should be more pragmatic. I have a great research paper on the likelihood of a player in Ontario, making it to the NHL. I believe the numbers were something to the effect of 11 out of 2500 players who started out in minor hockey in a given year actually playing in the NHL at some point. But hey, we can all dream I suppose.

Sorry if I came across too crass before. I can get on board with being pragmatic and realistic and I can get on board with these statements here. I just thought your original post went a tiny bit too far. I also think priorities like school etc... should come first and foremost and we should raise our kids to be good people, but after that what's the harm in helping them to atleast try and achieve their dream as long it's what THEY want. I would rather grow up knowing I gave it all I had AND had parents that supported me and gave me every opportunity to try than to grow up having my parents tell me it's impossible and don't bother even trying, I mean somebody is making it, why not them?

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Tue May 05, 2009 4:38 pm

I do not espouse to living vicariously through your own kid, to putting him in a position to fail, or to raising expectations so high that they are impossible to reach. With that in mind, I ask the following question with no malice, no sarcasm, no cynicism:

11/2400 is pretty steep odds. However, given that the president of the United States is only elected every 4 years, the odds of being president would be roughly 1/(number of children currently in grades 1-4), much worse odds than 11/2400. Why do we tell elementary students that they can be president someday if they want to? I would guess that the odds of a second grader becoming a doctor is more daunting than 11/2400. The odds of being an astronaut must be astronomical (maybe kids don’t want to be astronauts anymore?).

Have we lost the ability to teach kids something about hard work and perseverance through sport? What is so terrible about allowing a nine year old boy (or girl for that matter) a dream (not an expectation or an entitlement) to play in the NHL, MLB, NFL…?

When my kid was 8 he combined his desire to drive a car with his thought to help his grandmother. He thought it would be great to bring her dinner, so in his 8 year old mind, he wanted to grow up to be a pizza delivery guy. His attention span only lasts until the next butterfly flutters by, so we talked about working hard to reach the goal he had set – eat your vegetables so you grow tall enough to see over the steering wheel and exercise so you can carry those heavy pizzas. Do I think he will grow up to be a pizza delivery guy? No, I think he, like most other kids will continue to discover those things that he enjoys and those things that he is good at, and he will ultimately choose a career that fits him in some way. Did I squash his dream, no matter how fleeting, like a bug? Why would I do that?

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Tue May 05, 2009 5:24 pm

Just for fun here are some numebrs to contemplate. There are roughly 1,200 NCAA D1 men's hockey scholarships available to student athletes currently. I do not know the exact figure but from a glance it appears safe to say that roughly 50% of the players on college rosters are American born players. That means about 600 total roster spots are available to American born players currently. Currently there are 468,500 players registered with USA Hockey nationwide. If you just took the pure odds from those numbers (I know this is not how you do it) you come up with the odds of playing college hockey for an American born youth hockey player as being 1:780. You can dig deeper and massage the numbers and you can even take into account other factors and the odds actually improve (I came up with about 1:380 with the way I did it), further if you add Division 3 to the mix and nix the scholarship idea the odds increase exponentially. Now playing in the NHL has odds (especially for the American born player) that are astronomically higher than that and that should be noted, but based on those numbers is playing college hockey (even if it's just D3) really such an unrealistic dream? I don't think so

greybeard58 · Post by **greybeard58** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:20 pm

The total numbers of Div. I hockey players was at 1770+,the number of American players was 1021 of that the number of players from Mn was 203. In the previous year the number of American players was 984 of which from Mn was 211. In 2007-08 Mn also had 306 players at the Div III level for a total of 517 players total, next was Mass. with D1 110 AND D III 293 total 403. Third was N.Y. with DI 93 AND D III 171 Total 264 and fourth was Mich with DI 146 and D III 101 total 247. No other state was over 200 and only 2 states were over 100, Wisc D1 29 and D III 98 total 127,Ill. DI 63 and D III 57 total 120. Total American players in DI and D III playing in the 2007-2008---2562.
In reality youth numbers have been declining state wide for a number of years.
MINN.--D1---Total American
2008--203---1021--19.88%
2007--211----984--21.44%
2006--214---1022--20.94%
2005--205---1007--20.38%
2004--208----978--21.27%
2003--204---1003--20.34%

Chuck · Post by **Chuck** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:18 pm

I just went back and looked at the research paper I earlier referred to. I was way off on my numbers.

Of approximately 30,000 players of 1975 birth year in Ontario who played organized hockey, only 23 ever played a game in the NHL. They would have been eligible for the 1993 draft. As of 1999 only 11 were still playing in the NHL. The article also gives numbers who played European pro, NCAA, OHL.

Again, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with letting kids enjoy dreaming and working hard to achieve their dreams. My initial post was only meant to point out that there was no need to rip on the AA level kids. I took the initial post to be a rip at dads of AA level kids who thought their kids were AAA level kids. My point was only that, sure it wasn't likely that those kids were not going to the NHL, but that it was also unlikely that the AAA kids were going to make it either.

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Wed May 06, 2009 7:35 am

BluntInstrument · Post by **BluntInstrument** » Wed May 06, 2009 8:31 am

in short - let the kids dream, parents allow them to dream and support their dreams balancing with a pragmatic view but DO NOT stop stop the KIDS from dreaming. Ask anyone who has made it if kids should stop dreaming and if parents should stop them from dreaming and supporting the KIDS ( not the parents ) dreams. They'll say no. The kids should dream its the parents who shouldn't dream for them.

"Dreams come true. Without that possibility, nature would not incite us to have them."
John Updike

or in the immortal words of Loyd Christmas in Dumb and Dumber
"So you're telling me there's a chance... "

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Wed May 06, 2009 9:20 am

greybeard58 wrote:The total numbers of Div. I hockey players was at 1770+,the number of American players was 1021 of that the number of players from Mn was 203. In the previous year the number of American players was 984 of which from Mn was 211. In 2007-08 Mn also had 306 players at the Div III level for a total of 517 players total, next was Mass. with D1 110 AND D III 293 total 403. Third was N.Y. with DI 93 AND D III 171 Total 264 and fourth was Mich with DI 146 and D III 101 total 247. No other state was over 200 and only 2 states were over 100, Wisc D1 29 and D III 98 total 127,Ill. DI 63 and D III 57 total 120. Total American players in DI and D III playing in the 2007-2008---2562.
In reality youth numbers have been declining state wide for a number of years.
MINN.--D1---Total American
2008--203---1021--19.88%
2007--211----984--21.44%
2006--214---1022--20.94%
2005--205---1007--20.38%
2004--208----978--21.27%
2003--204---1003--20.34%

My numbers were conservative guesses based on rough data. You seem to have the actual data. Based on your data I feel the point is even more reinforced regarding playing college hockey for the AMerican born player and even more so for teh Minnesota born player. The ods are not that astronomical. For many college hockey IS the dream, not the NHL and IF it is their dream then (without being one of "those " parents) support it to the fullest I say.