Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
I too have noticed that there are some players on more than one team!talkhockey wrote:What's the difference between this team and the Jr White Caps? Looks like alot of the same players.
There is some cross over - the Jr Whitecaps Silver or Blue teams do not play in the TNFHL (about half of their players play spring sports or work or want a break) - so a number of their players (kind of the other half) are on several teams - both US and CDN across the League. If you know many of these kids I don't think you would call them anything but middle class famalies - the kids just love to play the game.talkhockey wrote:What's the difference between this team and the Jr White Caps? Looks like alot of the same players.
These are elite clubs, and not all are welcome.hockeya1a wrote:I too have noticed that there are some players on more than one team!talkhockey wrote:What's the difference between this team and the Jr White Caps? Looks like alot of the same players.
Don't you also think that there are probably players not getting a chance to play because some kids are on multiple teams?
some parents must have deep pockets,
Just read that back, and noticed that might seem negative. Did not mean that, just that these are all top level teams, hand picked, and tend to be the same groups of kids over and over. Guess that seems to be how it works. Everyone wants to have all the top kids, but the question would be, who is there left to play, if all are on one or two teams? Are there not more top kids than just those elite few?hockeyrube7 wrote:
These are elite clubs, and not all are welcome.
I think the key thing to remember about all of these teams - IceCats, Jr Whitecaps, St Croix Saints, any TNFHL squad, etc. is that they are all the result of what each team’s "GM" and coaches do. Any of us is free to start a team. All we need to do is watch some games (maybe a lot of games!), create a network of contacts, ask for recommendations, and then start making phone calls asking players to join the team. Some of the same "top kids" get asked repeatedly because most teams would love to have them play. Some can afford to, and have the time to play, others can't....these are all top level teams, hand picked, and tend to be the same groups of kids over and over. Guess that seems to be how it works. Everyone wants to have all the top kids, but the question would be, who is there left to play, if all are on one or two teams? Are there not more top kids than just those elite few?
This, IMO, is a very good post! No negative talk just the facts. Nicely done.hshockeyfan91 wrote:I think the key thing to remember about all of these teams - IceCats, Jr Whitecaps, St Croix Saints, any TNFHL squad, etc. is that they are all the result of what each team’s "GM" and coaches do. Any of us is free to start a team. All we need to do is watch some games (maybe a lot of games!), create a network of contacts, ask for recommendations, and then start making phone calls asking players to join the team. Some of the same "top kids" get asked repeatedly because most teams would love to have them play. Some can afford to, and have the time to play, others can't....these are all top level teams, hand picked, and tend to be the same groups of kids over and over. Guess that seems to be how it works. Everyone wants to have all the top kids, but the question would be, who is there left to play, if all are on one or two teams? Are there not more top kids than just those elite few?
There is no conspiracy - anyone can start a team. I have seen some teams put together largely with friends from one or a few associations. Others recruit very broadly. Any team can come up with whatever plan works for them. Maybe someone with a daughter who gets overlooked could put together a team of other kids who also get overlooked and wind up with the very best squad of all! In any case, at the end of the day, meeting new friends, and engaging in good competition is what's important.
Also, it's important to remember the obvious truth that there are not just 17 good players in any age group. I don't think any team could be put together than "cornered" the market - that put the very best 17 kids on one team. Everyone's definition of the best player varies (an obvious proof of that can be seen every year with the annual HS post-season awards. While a few players - like Becky Kortum - appear on everyone's list - many players are nominated for one award and not another - the fact is that not everyone agrees on what makes a great player). In addition the 17 best players – in the unlikely event an agreement could be reached on who they are – would probably not be the best team. There might be a lot of scorers, but no one to move the puck, there could be some very good offensive defenders, but maybe not enough “stay-at-home” players, etc.
One more complication is that players certainly do change - the "great one" at age 15 might just be the "ok one" at 18. Or maybe a player that is totally overlooked becomes a star. So a team put together a few years ago might still be very good, but maybe not the best. But does that really matter?
Everytime I think of the effort that must go into building a strong team - I shudder at the commitment and energy that the GM and coaches put in. So to them thanks for organizing the teams that exist. And if any of us feels our daughter is being left out, well, start a team! Talk to others and make a team if you feel someone else is getting too many chances. Enter that team in as many leagues and tournaments as you want. There is absolutely nothing that stops any of us from doing this, other than time and interest.
Agreed, excellent post and all very true...wild77 wrote:
This, IMO, is a very good post! No negative talk just the facts. Nicely done.
Great post! I am one of the many that has put together teams over the years. It is very rewarding and stressful at the same time. I have just a few comments. First, money is a problem and I hope everyone appreciates the fact that the GM generally carries a great deal of financial exposure so I implore people to pay their fees as soon as possible. Second, conflicts occur so please give your GM plenty of notice if you will be unable to attend something. And finally, please be aware that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence.hshockeyfan91 wrote:I think the key thing to remember about all of these teams - IceCats, Jr Whitecaps, St Croix Saints, any TNFHL squad, etc. is that they are all the result of what each team’s "GM" and coaches do. Any of us is free to start a team. All we need to do is watch some games (maybe a lot of games!), create a network of contacts, ask for recommendations, and then start making phone calls asking players to join the team. Some of the same "top kids" get asked repeatedly because most teams would love to have them play. Some can afford to, and have the time to play, others can't....these are all top level teams, hand picked, and tend to be the same groups of kids over and over. Guess that seems to be how it works. Everyone wants to have all the top kids, but the question would be, who is there left to play, if all are on one or two teams? Are there not more top kids than just those elite few?
There is no conspiracy - anyone can start a team. I have seen some teams put together largely with friends from one or a few associations. Others recruit very broadly. Any team can come up with whatever plan works for them. Maybe someone with a daughter who gets overlooked could put together a team of other kids who also get overlooked and wind up with the very best squad of all! In any case, at the end of the day, meeting new friends, and engaging in good competition is what's important.
Also, it's important to remember the obvious truth that there are not just 17 good players in any age group. I don't think any team could be put together than "cornered" the market - that put the very best 17 kids on one team. Everyone's definition of the best player varies (an obvious proof of that can be seen every year with the annual HS post-season awards. While a few players - like Becky Kortum - appear on everyone's list - many players are nominated for one award and not another - the fact is that not everyone agrees on what makes a great player). In addition the 17 best players – in the unlikely event an agreement could be reached on who they are – would probably not be the best team. There might be a lot of scorers, but no one to move the puck, there could be some very good offensive defenders, but maybe not enough “stay-at-home” players, etc.
One more complication is that players certainly do change - the "great one" at age 15 might just be the "ok one" at 18. Or maybe a player that is totally overlooked becomes a star. So a team put together a few years ago might still be very good, but maybe not the best. But does that really matter?
Everytime I think of the effort that must go into building a strong team - I shudder at the commitment and energy that the GM and coaches put in. So to them thanks for organizing the teams that exist. And if any of us feels our daughter is being left out, well, start a team! Talk to others and make a team if you feel someone else is getting too many chances. Enter that team in as many leagues and tournaments as you want. There is absolutely nothing that stops any of us from doing this, other than time and interest.
SuperStar,SuperStar wrote:Platinum Division ** Wins Losses Ties Points GF GA - Standings to date
TOP 3 teams so far..??
W L Pts GF GA
Ice Cats-M 7 1 15 44 13
Blades 5 3 10 44 29
Crush 4 1 9 23 27
I have seen almost all of the games played so far (except for the original Canadian games. I was in Winnipeg this weekend. Based on the teams that I have seen on the ice so far, I would rank them as follows:SuperStar wrote:Okay then,,,
Would this satisfy everyone?....I feel like a dang liberal now!
After a few weeks of play and "development" in the US Platimum Division of the 2 Nations Girls Hockey league the 3 teams with the most points are:..........
Ice Cats-M 7 1 15 44 13
Blades 5 3 10 44 29
Crush 4 1 9 23 27
Pretty sure Schwan's Blues & Orange Crush are playing in Winnipeg too!joehockey wrote:Scores from last weekend in WPG - MN All Stars and MN Ice Cats Riley traveled and played. This weekend St. Croix Saints, MN Blades and MN Ice Cats Micheletti travel to WPG for 5 games each.
PLATINUM DIVISION
May 15
Winnipeg Royals 1 MB Saints 4
MN Ice Cats -Riley 0 Northern Starzz 3
MB Saints 3 MN All Stars 2
MB Reece.s Pieces 13 Winnipeg Royals 0
MBLightning 1 Reece.s Pieces 10
Winnipeg Royals 4 MN All Stars 0
Northern Starzz 1 MB Saints 5
May 16
MB Reece.s Pieces 8 MN Ice Cats - Riley 1
MN All Stars 3 Northern Starzz 7
MB Lightning 2 Winnipeg Royals 1
MB Saints 3 MN Ice Cats II 2
Northern Starzz 5 Winnipeg Royals 3
MB Reece.s Pieces MN All Stars - forfeited
MN Ice Cats - Riley 6 MB Lightning 3
May 17
MB Reece.s Pieces 3 MB Saints 2
MN All stars 0 MB Lightning 3
Winnipeg Royals 0 MN Ice Cats II 1
Northern Starzz 4 MB Reeces Pieces 6
MB Saints 4 MB Lightning 1
Thanks for correction had a call and didn't finish the thought...far east side wrote:Yes...those teams...the Blues and Crush...are going to Winnipeg as well. Not sure why joehockey didn't feel the need to mention these two teams. joe seems pretty knowledgeable about the Two Nations league and obviously knows who is playing and who isn't...so I doubt joe just "forgot" to mention them. Good luck to all the teams and I am sure that the Blues and Crush will represent the Twin Cities well both on and off the ice in Winnipeg!
Just to clarify, the MB Saints have one player that played on the National Women's U-18 team last year, she has been invited to try out again this year. Reece's Pieces have no players off the U-18 National team, but one player has been invited to try out this year. The Reece's Pieces do have one player that played on the U-22 National team last summer as a 17 year old, she has been invited to try out with that team again. So far she has not played any games with the Reece's Pieces team in the 2009 Two Nations season.OntheEdge wrote:SuperStar,SuperStar wrote:Platinum Division ** Wins Losses Ties Points GF GA - Standings to date
TOP 3 teams so far..??
W L Pts GF GA
Ice Cats-M 7 1 15 44 13
Blades 5 3 10 44 29
Crush 4 1 9 23 27
First of all your chart should be W-L-T-Pts-GF-GA. The Icecats-M do not have a loss (7-0-1) and the Crush's record is 4-3-1. You are technically correct that the above teams have the most points but I would be careful in making judgments on who is the top team. In the platinum division, the Canadian teams haven't played the Americans yet plus in the second weekend of the league in the US, for competitive reasons, the league split the teams into upper and lower tiers. The Crush was the top team in the lower tier last weekend and the Icecats-M was the best team in the upper tier. I think the top 3 teams in the US are Icecats-M, Blades and Saints. The Saints have 4 losses and a tie but they were to top teams (2 losses and a tie with Icecats-M, 1 loss to SSM and 1 loss to the Blades). Additionally, Reese's Pieces is an older team with players from the Canadian National team. They will be tough to beat. Memorial weekend should be interesting.
Any of many girls high school teams (Edina, Stillwater, Hill Murray, Roseville, etc, etc). It was particularly noticeable against the Ice Cats - R. Perhaps I am just getting spoiled by Minnesota girls hockey speed. Many players, coaches, and parents that I have talked to from teams outside of Minnesota are really impressed by the speed of our girls.Lucky wrote:As compared to?iceage wrote:
The team (Reeces Pieces) I saw lacked team speed
The score of that game was Reeces Pieces 8 - Ice Cats Riley 1iceage wrote:It was particularly noticeable against the Ice Cats - RileyLucky wrote:As compared to?iceage wrote:
The team (Reeces Pieces) I saw lacked team speed