My question is relating to summer hockey rather than the HS season as I believe players should certainly play within their HS system as defined by the coach.
BUT - IMO - come summer - it is time for a player to play outside of her boundaries, be creative and find out what she is capable of. A time to take more risks and build confidence with new skills. Obviously it is a team sport with the goal to be competitive and ideally to win. But where does this personal development fall on the scale of importance in summer hockey.
As this is a very experienced group on this board, I would love to hear opinions on this. And I hope my question comes across as intended.
Thank you!
System vs Creativity
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
It is an interesting question and one that I think will have many answers....it is a great challenge to MN Hockey girls or maybe hockey..... Where do players learn skills, to be creative but equally as important when do girls recieve really top coaching and understanding? First this is a game and you have to have fun but it depends where the player is and what they want to do. I wish there was pond hockey at the park in the summer - we have great development programs and great competition but where do you go to have fun and work on a new move like pond hockey in the winter?
MN hockey has more girls skating than any other state and the most skating at the HS level. When you pit the best MN players against other states they have great individual skills but might not be the best system or team players because most HS don't have a very evolved system and kids don't play a long period together and the top players often don't have to play with in a system to have success - so does that mean they are more creative?
Last fall in the Elite League it was clear SSM played as a team better and over the season the HS girls learned to play together but didn't have systems - inside of that system Decker and Kessel of SSM were very creative but they knew where the others were always going to be. To be truly creative you have to understand the reads of what the other team is doing and then after the read make the creative play - lots of people think creative is a 180 around people - it might also be making a unique pass behind the back or indirect off the boards to yourself or others.
Over the last three weekends I have watched the Micheletti Ice Cats and the Blades each team does some pracitces together and it appears the coaches have very specific expectations on what to do in certain situations. The Blades really impress me - lots of talented players but they play very well together. My sense is the kids on the Blades will both be more creatvie and better team players than a team where the coach just opens the door and says just go out and have fun.
Hockey is kind of like a Maslow Hierchy you have to be able to skate well, then you have to have great puck skills shooting passing then you have to fit within team play then you have to be able to do it in a game.
Watch Tiger Woods warm up for a PGA event his skills are incredible and he does and can do incredible creative things because he has tried them some where.
So my sense if you are stressing creative stress doing that in a team/game setting and also in some type of pond hockey or low level practice time. The summer is the time to experiment and play loose if you are a defenisve player get up in the play or a grinder work on those moves to beat someone - in short get out of the comfort zone - take the one timers or snappers while on the move - may whiff a few times but you will get it. And save lots of time to laugh and enjoy the things you are trying and how you can take them back to your HS team. But you won't be better if you only work on teh creative but still are poor skater or lack puck skills - the basics are key. Watch a kid who likes to shoot pucks or stickhandle they have all kinds of little creative things they do to strecth themselves.
MN hockey has more girls skating than any other state and the most skating at the HS level. When you pit the best MN players against other states they have great individual skills but might not be the best system or team players because most HS don't have a very evolved system and kids don't play a long period together and the top players often don't have to play with in a system to have success - so does that mean they are more creative?
Last fall in the Elite League it was clear SSM played as a team better and over the season the HS girls learned to play together but didn't have systems - inside of that system Decker and Kessel of SSM were very creative but they knew where the others were always going to be. To be truly creative you have to understand the reads of what the other team is doing and then after the read make the creative play - lots of people think creative is a 180 around people - it might also be making a unique pass behind the back or indirect off the boards to yourself or others.
Over the last three weekends I have watched the Micheletti Ice Cats and the Blades each team does some pracitces together and it appears the coaches have very specific expectations on what to do in certain situations. The Blades really impress me - lots of talented players but they play very well together. My sense is the kids on the Blades will both be more creatvie and better team players than a team where the coach just opens the door and says just go out and have fun.
Hockey is kind of like a Maslow Hierchy you have to be able to skate well, then you have to have great puck skills shooting passing then you have to fit within team play then you have to be able to do it in a game.
Watch Tiger Woods warm up for a PGA event his skills are incredible and he does and can do incredible creative things because he has tried them some where.
So my sense if you are stressing creative stress doing that in a team/game setting and also in some type of pond hockey or low level practice time. The summer is the time to experiment and play loose if you are a defenisve player get up in the play or a grinder work on those moves to beat someone - in short get out of the comfort zone - take the one timers or snappers while on the move - may whiff a few times but you will get it. And save lots of time to laugh and enjoy the things you are trying and how you can take them back to your HS team. But you won't be better if you only work on teh creative but still are poor skater or lack puck skills - the basics are key. Watch a kid who likes to shoot pucks or stickhandle they have all kinds of little creative things they do to strecth themselves.
Re: System vs Creativity
Interesting. I think all players need to play outside their boundaries and be creative to learn more skills. However, where and when is the dilemma. If your daughter is on a top tier AAA summer team it might not be a good idea to be too "creative" if its going to hurt your team. If your team is up by 4 goals yes but if your daughter is hurting the team she might be looking for a new team next year. I think a better place to try things and be creative is some of the summer leagues such as the college league or 3-3 or 4-4 leagues. Winning is less important in these leagues and development is the goal so trying things is more acceptable and encouraged.mnhkylvr wrote:BUT - IMO - come summer - it is time for a player to play outside of her boundaries, be creative and find out what she is capable of.
system vs. creativity
It is the system that gets the kids to the right places on the ice.
It is the creativity that gets it to the back of the net.
It is the difference between grinders and playmakers. You need both to succeed.
The players and teams that mesh them the best, tend to come out on top.
The key in summer hockey is to find a program that will allow risk taking in certain situations and coaches that will talk to the player when they fail and send them right back out with a little more info. than had before they tried something.
I would rather see a player play at their highest level, fail, get up and dust themself off and try again, as opposed to a player play passive and learn nothing. A coach can coach the 1st player in to playing smarter. The 2nd player's problem is they are playing scared.
It is the creativity that gets it to the back of the net.
It is the difference between grinders and playmakers. You need both to succeed.
The players and teams that mesh them the best, tend to come out on top.
The key in summer hockey is to find a program that will allow risk taking in certain situations and coaches that will talk to the player when they fail and send them right back out with a little more info. than had before they tried something.
I would rather see a player play at their highest level, fail, get up and dust themself off and try again, as opposed to a player play passive and learn nothing. A coach can coach the 1st player in to playing smarter. The 2nd player's problem is they are playing scared.
Re: system vs. creativity
Good post. It reminds me of a situation with my daughter in a tournament game this spring. I watched her attempt and fail at something that she had learned recently in a stickhandling clinic. She proceeded to try it again 3 more times without success until she finally got it on the 5th try. Each failure resulted in a odd man rush on her partner. After the game I asked her why she kept doing the same move over and over again. To my surprise, she told me that her coach told her to keep doing it until she got it right. As you can imagine she really loves playing for that coach.Knight7 wrote:It is the system that gets the kids to the right places on the ice.
It is the creativity that gets it to the back of the net.
It is the difference between grinders and playmakers. You need both to succeed.
The players and teams that mesh them the best, tend to come out on top.
The key in summer hockey is to find a program that will allow risk taking in certain situations and coaches that will talk to the player when they fail and send them right back out with a little more info. than had before they tried something.
I would rather see a player play at their highest level, fail, get up and dust themself off and try again, as opposed to a player play passive and learn nothing. A coach can coach the 1st player in to playing smarter. The 2nd player's problem is they are playing scared.
Last edited by OntheEdge on Tue May 19, 2009 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: system vs. creativity
Extremely well said! Can you coach my kid!?!?!Knight7 wrote:It is the system that gets the kids to the right places on the ice.
It is the creativity that gets it to the back of the net.
It is the difference between grinders and playmakers. You need both to succeed.
The players and teams that mesh them the best, tend to come out on top.
The key in summer hockey is to find a program that will allow risk taking in certain situations and coaches that will talk to the player when they fail and send them right back out with a little more info. than had before they tried something.
I would rather see a player play at their highest level, fail, get up and dust themself off and try again, as opposed to a player play passive and learn nothing. A coach can coach the 1st player in to playing smarter. The 2nd player's problem is they are playing scared.
sounds like a awsome coach with learning in mind, wish my daughter had the same experiance. As a goalie she has trained at Stauber, CODP, Peterson Camp, etc. but when she attempts to apply what she has learned at the elite camps and independant goalie coaches her coach tells her what she has learned is wrong and to do it his way. On top of it; during team practices the goalies are used as a targets virtually no coaching provided. I know some HS programs have excellent goalie coaching, Blaine, Cloquet, Tartan, just to name a few. However, if your player isnt in such a surrounding you dont have much choice other than send them outside the system to gain knowledge and new skill sets.
I was in Rosemount the other day and had heard about The Pond and decided to drop in and see what its about. The rink is quite a bit smaller; not sure the exact dimensions. There was a 3 v 3 squirt game in progress. There are no offsides; no icing. There was one ref; he only called obvious penalties. A penalty resulted in a penalty shot with all the players moving toward the net slightly after the shooter. There were no face-offs. It was the best pond hockey atmosphere I have ever seen indoors. There was non-stop action for 60 minutes. The players had to make plays; move the puck. And best of all, they were free to try new moves without worrying about not following some coach's rigid take-no chances system.
Don't know if there are programs / leagues for girls; but if there are, I would highly recommend this setting.
Don't know if there are programs / leagues for girls; but if there are, I would highly recommend this setting.
Re: system vs. creativity
Every coach should have this in mind for their team.Knight7 wrote:It is the system that gets the kids to the right places on the ice.
It is the creativity that gets it to the back of the net.
It is the difference between grinders and playmakers. You need both to succeed.
The players and teams that mesh them the best, tend to come out on top.
The key in summer hockey is to find a program that will allow risk taking in certain situations and coaches that will talk to the player when they fail and send them right back out with a little more info. than had before they tried something.
I would rather see a player play at their highest level, fail, get up and dust themself off and try again, as opposed to a player play passive and learn nothing. A coach can coach the 1st player in to playing smarter. The 2nd player's problem is they are playing scared.