MSHSL makes decision on shortened season....

hockeydad · Post by **hockeydad** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:48 pm

The decision is to keep the number of games the same. However, they did limit teams to no more than three scrimmages (or two scrimmages and a jamboree). Another vote will restrict teams from going more than 600 miles for out-of-state travel without MSHSL approval (No more Holy Angels at Mt. St. Charles?)

Also, there was some sort of decision that section semifinals should be played at high seeds. According to the Pioneer Press:

"A recommendation to have home sites used for all but the championship games in section play was approved. The wording of the recommendation allows for flexibility for section quarterfinals and semifinals if a neutral site will better accommodate anticipated attendance or will reduce travel for the participating teams"

CasseauCougar · Post by **CasseauCougar** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:08 pm

Can someone help me with this because I'm obviously missing something here. You go from Bantam As where you can have a b'zillion games and scrimmages to the pinnacle of the youth part of the experience at high school and they're worried 2 versus 3 scrimmages??? And the limit on games? I don't get it. Help me someone.

breakout · Post by **breakout** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:32 pm

If Holy Angels goes to Mt. St. Charles, who cares?

600 miles, what is that all about? Teams can go to Chicago, but not Boston? Whatever.

The good news is that they are keeping the number of games the same. How about going to 20 minute periods? That would add to game experience with little cost.

HockeyMN1 · Post by **HockeyMN1** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:00 am

The travel thing much more drastically affects other sports besides hockey. Many baseball teams go to Florida for spring break to get some good practice in before games which will no longer happen and some top basketball teams like Hopkins go to other regions to get better competition; this will also be disallowed.

2pipesnin · Post by **2pipesnin** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:03 am

Casseau....The answer is simple......Funding! Bantam hockey is funded by the parents of the players which will come out to be $1500 to $3500 a player for the season depending on which association you are playing in and how much money the team decides to spend.

High School hockey is funded by the school/state and with the help of the "booster club" (parents) There is no way the school can justify dumping that amount of money in to one sport. As stated above the schools are required to fund many other sports and activities for all students.

In time the school/State funding will be cut as well and then parents can again pay for their student to participate in high school sports. All the high school sports seasons are short. In fact Hockey seems to be the longest of all the high school sports. Relax and enjoy watching your young athlete, it's all going to go very very fast and they are going to go professional in something other then sports anyway!

At "oldtimers" hockey we play year round and it is very inexpensive and we have a great time.

pioneers · Post by **pioneers** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:59 am

breakout wrote:If Holy Angels goes to Mt. St. Charles, who cares?

600 miles, what is that all about? .

It was reported on the news last night, that the 600 miles is round trip not each way.

hockeydad · Post by **hockeydad** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:31 am

Yes, round trip, sorry, I should have been more specific.

Post by **karl(east)** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:34 pm

Don't forget the little clause about "without MSHSL approval" on the 600-mile rule. My guess is that AHA will still be able to get their games against Mt. St. Charles approved; they're a private school who can foot the bill. Things like the baseball spring training trips are more likely to get axed.

The high seed thing could be interesting, too. It made me think of all the arguments we've had up in 7AA about semifinal locations, and this could help resolve some of that, if, say, Elk River were allowed to host one semifinal, while the other would stay at the DECC. It would ruin Semifinal Saturday in Duluth, and the language is very vague and allows for a lot of flexibility. We'll see how it works out.

summer · Post by **summer** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:52 pm

[quote="karl(east)"]Don't forget the little clause about "without MSHSL approval" on the 600-mile rule. My guess is that AHA will still be able to get their games against Mt. St. Charles approved; they're a private school who can foot the bill. Things like the baseball spring training trips are more likely to get axed.

But Mr. Stead says this is being done to level the playing field, so the schools that can afford it, can't do it, just like the ones who can't afford it!
I will believe it when I see it!

breakout · Post by **breakout** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 3:05 pm

pioneers wrote:
breakout wrote:If Holy Angels goes to Mt. St. Charles, who cares?

600 miles, what is that all about? .
It was reported on the news last night, that the 600 miles is round trip not each way.

For a Twin Cities team, they can go to Duluth, Fargo, Sioux Falls, Eau Claire, Madison may be a stretch ........... I am thinking from a circumference perspective.

Maybe baseball teams can go to sunny La Crosse, WI for spring break warm ups.

What's wrong with fund raisers? Goal setting and teams striving for a common purpose. Those aren't bad lessons.

CasseauCougar · Post by **CasseauCougar** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:16 pm

2pipesnin wrote:High School hockey is funded by the school/state and with the help of the "booster club" (parents) There is no way the school can justify dumping that amount of money in to one sport. As stated above the schools are required to fund many other sports and activities for all students.

I know it's different out-state, but I can tell you in the Metro, boosters pay WELL over 90% of the cost of the season. It costs less out of pocket than Bantams because we do a TON more fundraising, but it's the parents and kids that do it.

hockeyjunkie2 · Post by **hockeyjunkie2** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:17 pm

Apple Valley will be looking for 3 non-conference games unless they can get it waived for the upcoming season since it was already on the schedule. They were going to play in the Stadstad Hockey Classic in Grand Forks.

The trip would be 670 miles. Does anyone know if it's possible to keep the trip already planned?

Post by **karl(east)** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 4:43 pm

hockeyjunkie2 wrote:Apple Valley will be looking for 3 non-conference games unless they can get it waived for the upcoming season since it was already on the schedule. They were going to play in the Stadstad Hockey Classic in Grand Forks.

The trip would be 670 miles. Does anyone know if it's possible to keep the trip already planned?

Well, the language they use says that teams can still go more than 600 miles, they just have to get it approved. You'd hope an already-scheduled holiday tournament would fit.

Further reading (can we find official releases on the MSHSL site anywhere?):

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/243217/
http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_12545297

So I was probably wrong about Holy Angels earlier; it looks as if this was targeting games like that. I can see why they did it, though I don't entirely agree with it.

Some good news is that this is a one-way thing, so Mt. St. Charles or other distant teams could still come to Minnesota if they wanted to and their high school leagues allow it.

Zamman · Post by **Zamman** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:50 pm

The ruling is BS. It affects more teams in other sports than one or two in hockey. I know that Richfield has gone on baseball and softball trips to Florida, longer than AHA has gone out east for hockey. Private schools are still bound by the rules stated, they are a MSHSL school. The poor judgment by the league is more political than anything. They only spoke about sports. What about band, speech,theatre and other activities. Band is a lettering event. I have attended two trips with the Richfield high school to Ireland and the Bahamas. The school did not fund the trip, I paid for myself and my daughter.

These trips are mostly paid for by fundraising and the parents. I am guessing that the rule will be overturned before the school year. Minnesota will look pretty stupid if they tell teams from others states that, "you can come here, but we cannot go there".
What if Mayo plays at I-falls or vice-versa? isn't that over 300 miles one way, so they would be over the 600 mile rule.
I suggest everyone call the MSHSL and voice their opinion.

warriors41 · Post by **warriors41** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:16 am

Zamman wrote:The ruling is BS. It affects more teams in other sports than one or two in hockey. I know that Richfield has gone on baseball and softball trips to Florida, longer than AHA has gone out east for hockey. Private schools are still bound by the rules stated, they are a MSHSL school. The poor judgment by the league is more political than anything. They only spoke about sports. What about band, speech,theatre and other activities. Band is a lettering event. I have attended two trips with the Richfield high school to Ireland and the Bahamas. The school did not fund the trip, I paid for myself and my daughter.

These trips are mostly paid for by fundraising and the parents. I am guessing that the rule will be overturned before the school year. Minnesota will look pretty stupid if they tell teams from others states that, "you can come here, but we cannot go there".
What if Mayo plays at I-falls or vice-versa? isn't that over 300 miles one way, so they would be over the 600 mile rule.
I suggest everyone call the MSHSL and voice their opinion.

Well I think someone said above that this rule only applies to school planning to go out of state. A team could travel anywhere in the state wothout penalty if i am interpretting this correctly.

The one question i have is if the limit is 300 miles one way, does that measurement start from the state border or from the school itself. If anyone knows please say it.

formerly7aafan · Post by **formerly7aafan** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:30 am

hockeyjunkie2 wrote:Apple Valley will be looking for 3 non-conference games unless they can get it waived for the upcoming season since it was already on the schedule. They were going to play in the Stadstad Hockey Classic in Grand Forks.

The trip would be 670 miles. Does anyone know if it's possible to keep the trip already planned?

I thought I read that the mileage rule applies to states that DO NOT border Minnesota. Consequently, if I remember correctly, even though it is more than the 600 mile rule, they would still be able to go by ND sharing the MN border.

Zamman · Post by **Zamman** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:34 pm

Fact of the matter is, the spring season is bound by the weather and the trips to the south offer a longer and more productive season. Yes all schools cannot participate in this programming, but all schools have in the past had the opportunity to try to find fundraising events or other means to participate. If the families all pay themselves, then why is there a problem?

starmom · Post by **starmom** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 3:01 pm

The rule was put in because of the tough economic times, to alleviate pressure on players and families to come up with the extra money for travel. It also levels the playing field between the Haves and the Have Nots.
AHA already started cutting back on team "extras" before this rule came down. The school no longer allows teams to purchase attire other than a sweatshirt, which is part of the uniform. The Boys Lacrosse team eliminated a planned trip to Illinois for this reason.
The Mt St Charles trip? Should be interesting ot see how that plays out.

Post by **karl(east)** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:08 pm

formerly7aafan wrote:
hockeyjunkie2 wrote:Apple Valley will be looking for 3 non-conference games unless they can get it waived for the upcoming season since it was already on the schedule. They were going to play in the Stadstad Hockey Classic in Grand Forks.

The trip would be 670 miles. Does anyone know if it's possible to keep the trip already planned?
I thought I read that the mileage rule applies to states that DO NOT border Minnesota. Consequently, if I remember correctly, even though it is more than the 600 mile rule, they would still be able to go by ND sharing the MN border.

The wording from the article was this:

"There no longer will be out-of-state travel beyond bordering states and provinces. Roundtrips of more than 600 miles will not be allowed unless approved by the league."

The wording is so vague I could interpret it either way.

It'd be nice to get ahold of the actual MSHSL proposals, instead of a newspaper article summary.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:25 pm

karl(east) wrote:The wording from the article was this:

"There no longer will be out-of-state travel beyond bordering states and provinces. Roundtrips of more than 600 miles will not be allowed unless approved by the league."

If they really needed to do this, they should have just left off the second sentence.

Other than "bordering states and provinces", where could you go that isn't more than 600 miles roundtrip?

Post by **karl(east)** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:17 pm

MNHockeyFan wrote:
karl(east) wrote:The wording from the article was this:

"There no longer will be out-of-state travel beyond bordering states and provinces. Roundtrips of more than 600 miles will not be allowed unless approved by the league."
If they really needed to do this, they should have just left off the second sentence.

Other than "bordering states and provinces", where could you go that isn't more than 600 miles roundtrip?

Well, you could probably go from Duluth to the UP in Michigan, but I've never heard of anyone doing that. Maybe from the SE corner of the state to NW Illinois, too.

But I agree, it does seem like a pretty pointless limit.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:08 pm

[quote="Zamman"]The ruling is BS. It affects more teams in other sports than one or two in hockey. I know that Richfield has gone on baseball and softball trips to Florida, longer than AHA has gone out east for hockey. Private schools are still bound by the rules stated, they are a MSHSL school. The poor judgment by the league is more political than anything. They only spoke about sports. What about band, speech,theatre and other activities. Band is a lettering event. I have attended two trips with the Richfield high school to Ireland and the Bahamas. The school did not fund the trip, I paid for myself and my daughter.[quote]

Nobody is cut from band, whether you go on a band trip has no bearing on a kids position or ability to be in the band. That's not true in sports. Our school took a baseball trip to Florida in 2006, the parents had to pay $775 (this didn't include meal and spending money) and particiapate in multiple fund raisers in addition to the $125 sign up fee the school charged. My kid didn't play baseball so it didn't afffect me but it did affect a number of people. It's real easy for someone with a bunch of money to spend other people's money, the MSHSL gets a lot of complaints about ever increasing fees driving kids out of sports, some of these fees are self inflicted as in addition to the school charged fee you also have to pay the booster club fee or goal line club fee or touchdown club fee etc. etc. This seems to be an attempt to slow down some of these fees.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:16 pm

MNHockeyFan wrote:
karl(east) wrote:The wording from the article was this:

"There no longer will be out-of-state travel beyond bordering states and provinces. Roundtrips of more than 600 miles will not be allowed unless approved by the league."
If they really needed to do this, they should have just left off the second sentence.

Other than "bordering states and provinces", where could you go that isn't more than 600 miles roundtrip?

The second sentance stands alone, otherwise there would be a comma or a conjunction instead of a period. It reads to me that you can only travel to adjoining states. And roundtrips of more than 600 miles will have to be approved by the league. Just a hunch but travel to tournaments in Minnesota and adjoining states will be approved but single game trips to Missouri and Int. Falls heading to Albert Lea for 1 game won't be.