Apparently not too many of you chose to attend the meeting last weekend to voice your opinion there in St Cloud and are now surprised about the outcome. This was not a secret as that it was to be voted on and what passed is clearer than earlier proposed. This will be revisited again and probably be changed, at least now there is a consistence rule in place and a small attempt to define community.
Mr Elliot could not attend but his replacement did vote Elliott's wishes. I only knew of one other person who has participated on this forum but she has not done so in years and I will say it, I did attend the meeting for the whole weekend and it was worth every minute of it to see the Mn Hockey board in action and yes I did get to voice my thoughts on this and other issues during the committee meetings and if I had a question on Sunday I would have been allowed to speak there also. My point is to get involved and attend. Do not just complain get involved and make an effort.
New participation rule
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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blondegirlsdad
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:30 am
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dumb blonde
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:59 am
Lets just say it may be impossible to track and easier to just sign them up no questions asked. School records are not public as are those that are tied to residences and real estate taxes. Big associations will pull their hair out while smaller associations will have an easier go as long as they don't lose their participation to a larger one near them.
Who in the Association is going to police this? The registrars job is already a big one. I can only wonder what associations like Edina or Wayzata will do with this.
Who in the Association is going to police this? The registrars job is already a big one. I can only wonder what associations like Edina or Wayzata will do with this.
I have finally had a chance to review this policy change and have to say that it must be immediately rescinded and redrafted by Minnesota Hockey. This was not the policy that I reviewed several days prior to the State Meeting and it appears the policy was redrafted at the meeting without any consideration as to how it would effect certain associations.
I am unclear as to what problems or concerns caused the drafters to put this policy forward in the first place, however it took no account of the dynamics of hockey in the cities of Minneapolis and Saint Paul.
Southwest Hockey association's membership is well over 60% private or parochial school educated. Virtually all of these schools are located outside of our geographic boundaries.
Under the rule, as I read it, in 09-10, players attending school outside of our geographic boundaries can elect to be grandfathered in and remain with our association. However, new members (or members moving from one school or another) must register at the association where their schools geographic boundaries are located. Thus, 60%+ of my mighty mite class will now be gone.
My kid would be at Saint Louis Park as he attends Benilde. SWHA VP of Hockey would have to register with Washburn as his kids attend a school in their geographic area. My treasurer and one other board member would leave for Highland, as they attend a Catholic grade school in Highland's geographic area, two other board members would leave for Hopkins as they attend Blake. Washburn is no different. Their President would have to register his kids in Sibley (STA) and their VP of Hockey would have to register with Southwest (parochial school in our geographic boundaries).
All of these parents and kids are 100% happy with playing community hockey with their friends in Minneapolis, whom they play baseball, soccer, and other sports together with in other seasons. This policy, while trying to appease a very small number of people in the suburbs or outstate, will cause immense chaos and confusion within our program.
This policy effectively dismantles our association and the over 300 players/families we have. It also will dismantle similar associations like Washburn, Highland, Johnson, Como, etc. This policy needs to be rescinded immediately and redrafted so as to not destroy whole hockey associations.
While I can only believe that this was an oversight and a terrible mistake made by Minnesota Hockey's Board, I have written the Board of Directors and I encourage anyone that does not agree with this policy to contact the Board of Directors at Minnesota Hockey to express their opinions. You can easily contact them through this link:
http://www.minnesotahockey.org/page/sho ... contact-us
This is not a case of someone resisting change because of a few issues that it will bring up....this will cause major chaos and destruction for our associations.
I am unclear as to what problems or concerns caused the drafters to put this policy forward in the first place, however it took no account of the dynamics of hockey in the cities of Minneapolis and Saint Paul.
Southwest Hockey association's membership is well over 60% private or parochial school educated. Virtually all of these schools are located outside of our geographic boundaries.
Under the rule, as I read it, in 09-10, players attending school outside of our geographic boundaries can elect to be grandfathered in and remain with our association. However, new members (or members moving from one school or another) must register at the association where their schools geographic boundaries are located. Thus, 60%+ of my mighty mite class will now be gone.
My kid would be at Saint Louis Park as he attends Benilde. SWHA VP of Hockey would have to register with Washburn as his kids attend a school in their geographic area. My treasurer and one other board member would leave for Highland, as they attend a Catholic grade school in Highland's geographic area, two other board members would leave for Hopkins as they attend Blake. Washburn is no different. Their President would have to register his kids in Sibley (STA) and their VP of Hockey would have to register with Southwest (parochial school in our geographic boundaries).
All of these parents and kids are 100% happy with playing community hockey with their friends in Minneapolis, whom they play baseball, soccer, and other sports together with in other seasons. This policy, while trying to appease a very small number of people in the suburbs or outstate, will cause immense chaos and confusion within our program.
This policy effectively dismantles our association and the over 300 players/families we have. It also will dismantle similar associations like Washburn, Highland, Johnson, Como, etc. This policy needs to be rescinded immediately and redrafted so as to not destroy whole hockey associations.
While I can only believe that this was an oversight and a terrible mistake made by Minnesota Hockey's Board, I have written the Board of Directors and I encourage anyone that does not agree with this policy to contact the Board of Directors at Minnesota Hockey to express their opinions. You can easily contact them through this link:
http://www.minnesotahockey.org/page/sho ... contact-us
This is not a case of someone resisting change because of a few issues that it will bring up....this will cause major chaos and destruction for our associations.
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InigoMontoya
- Posts: 1716
- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:36 pm
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Community Based
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:01 am
NEWS ALERT
Hopkins Becomes New Youth Hockey Power
Hopkins becomes huge benefactor with new Minnesota Hockey "Participation Rule." All students, K-12, that attend either Breck or Blake now become the property of Hopkins Youth Hockey Association. Families from Wayzata, Edina, Minneapolis and other nearby communities will now drive to Hopkins for their youth hockey experience instead of staying in the community where they live. A lot of driving back and forth to Hopkins but now the kids will get to play with their private school classmates. Some Youth Hockey Associations stand to lose as much as 50% of their membership to neighboring youth associations.
Other Associations will benefit as well based on if the private schools in their community starts in kindergarten or later grades. All kids that attend St. Thomas must now play in the Sibley Association. All kids that attend St. Paul Academy must now play with Highland-Central. All kids that attend Holy Angels must now play in the Richfield Association. All kids that attend Benilde must play with St. Louis Park.
A little satire but also notice that the new participation rule must be killed. Some families, somewhere, must have been wishing for this but I can't imagine all the private school families, in strong youth hockey associations, want to leave to play in a smaller and weaker association. Can you say backfired. I heard that at the State meeting the participants felt like they needed to pass something. Why? What was wrong with the structure that has been used forever?
Back to a 4 word rule. Play where you live.
Hopkins Becomes New Youth Hockey Power
Hopkins becomes huge benefactor with new Minnesota Hockey "Participation Rule." All students, K-12, that attend either Breck or Blake now become the property of Hopkins Youth Hockey Association. Families from Wayzata, Edina, Minneapolis and other nearby communities will now drive to Hopkins for their youth hockey experience instead of staying in the community where they live. A lot of driving back and forth to Hopkins but now the kids will get to play with their private school classmates. Some Youth Hockey Associations stand to lose as much as 50% of their membership to neighboring youth associations.
Other Associations will benefit as well based on if the private schools in their community starts in kindergarten or later grades. All kids that attend St. Thomas must now play in the Sibley Association. All kids that attend St. Paul Academy must now play with Highland-Central. All kids that attend Holy Angels must now play in the Richfield Association. All kids that attend Benilde must play with St. Louis Park.
A little satire but also notice that the new participation rule must be killed. Some families, somewhere, must have been wishing for this but I can't imagine all the private school families, in strong youth hockey associations, want to leave to play in a smaller and weaker association. Can you say backfired. I heard that at the State meeting the participants felt like they needed to pass something. Why? What was wrong with the structure that has been used forever?
Back to a 4 word rule. Play where you live.
Or, simply add a few words... Play where you live or go to school. Let people choose instead of being forced into playing under a one-size fits all rule. Community or school-based.Community Based wrote:NEWS ALERT
Hopkins Becomes New Youth Hockey Power
Hopkins becomes huge benefactor with new Minnesota Hockey "Participation Rule." All students, K-12, that attend either Breck or Blake now become the property of Hopkins Youth Hockey Association. Families from Wayzata, Edina, Minneapolis and other nearby communities will now drive to Hopkins for their youth hockey experience instead of staying in the community where they live. A lot of driving back and forth to Hopkins but now the kids will get to play with their private school classmates. Some Youth Hockey Associations stand to lose as much as 50% of their membership to neighboring youth associations.
Other Associations will benefit as well based on if the private schools in their community starts in kindergarten or later grades. All kids that attend St. Thomas must now play in the Sibley Association. All kids that attend St. Paul Academy must now play with Highland-Central. All kids that attend Holy Angels must now play in the Richfield Association. All kids that attend Benilde must play with St. Louis Park.
A little satire but also notice that the new participation rule must be killed. Some families, somewhere, must have been wishing for this but I can't imagine all the private school families, in strong youth hockey associations, want to leave to play in a smaller and weaker association. Can you say backfired. I heard that at the State meeting the participants felt like they needed to pass something. Why? What was wrong with the structure that has been used forever?
Back to a 4 word rule. Play where you live.
BUT that would give families much too much freedom in an otherwise freedom loving society and would scare some association boards way too much. Satirical? Or not.
Exactly! Give the Choice?play4fun wrote:Or, simply add a few words... Play where you live or go to school. Let people choose instead of being forced into playing under a one-size fits all rule. Community or school-based.Community Based wrote:NEWS ALERT
Hopkins Becomes New Youth Hockey Power
Hopkins becomes huge benefactor with new Minnesota Hockey "Participation Rule." All students, K-12, that attend either Breck or Blake now become the property of Hopkins Youth Hockey Association. Families from Wayzata, Edina, Minneapolis and other nearby communities will now drive to Hopkins for their youth hockey experience instead of staying in the community where they live. A lot of driving back and forth to Hopkins but now the kids will get to play with their private school classmates. Some Youth Hockey Associations stand to lose as much as 50% of their membership to neighboring youth associations.
Other Associations will benefit as well based on if the private schools in their community starts in kindergarten or later grades. All kids that attend St. Thomas must now play in the Sibley Association. All kids that attend St. Paul Academy must now play with Highland-Central. All kids that attend Holy Angels must now play in the Richfield Association. All kids that attend Benilde must play with St. Louis Park.
A little satire but also notice that the new participation rule must be killed. Some families, somewhere, must have been wishing for this but I can't imagine all the private school families, in strong youth hockey associations, want to leave to play in a smaller and weaker association. Can you say backfired. I heard that at the State meeting the participants felt like they needed to pass something. Why? What was wrong with the structure that has been used forever?
Back to a 4 word rule. Play where you live.
BUT that would give families much too much freedom in an otherwise freedom loving society and would scare some association boards way too much. Satirical? Or not.
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Community Based
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:01 am
Some of the decision makers blur the line between youth hockey and high school hockey. I agree, you should play high school hockey where you go to high school. But, play youth hockey where you live. Clear distinction between youth hockey years and high school years and not at all alike.
The governing body is called Minnesota Hockey not Minnesota Youth Hockey. Minnesota Hockey has not done a good job of preserving the interests of Minnesota Youth Hockey Associations. Then you have people voting on youth hockey issues that aren't involved in Minnesota Youth Hockey but are involved with Minnesota Hockey. Their interests are obviously different than the interests of the majority (like 98%) of youth hockey families.
Frankly I think the authors got confused and don't even know what they wrote at this point. Attendees, and voters, didn't even understand what they were voting on.
Edina (isn't that where one of the authors Bakke is from) private school families can no longer play for residence community based Edina Youth Hockey. Instead they will play for Hopkins and St. Louis Park. And, students that attend Lady of Grace School in Edina, from neighboring communities, will take the spots of the Edina kids as they're now members of Edina Youth Hockey. Oh, you fixed it now. Will the Wayzata and Edina families pull their kids out of private school so they can stay in the Wayzata and Edina Youth Hockey Associations?
Other than the authors, Bakke and Nagan, who did the lobbying around this for successful passage? It's really unbelievable. Let's name the guilty parties. Someone convinced 18 voters this was a good idea.
The governing body is called Minnesota Hockey not Minnesota Youth Hockey. Minnesota Hockey has not done a good job of preserving the interests of Minnesota Youth Hockey Associations. Then you have people voting on youth hockey issues that aren't involved in Minnesota Youth Hockey but are involved with Minnesota Hockey. Their interests are obviously different than the interests of the majority (like 98%) of youth hockey families.
Frankly I think the authors got confused and don't even know what they wrote at this point. Attendees, and voters, didn't even understand what they were voting on.
Edina (isn't that where one of the authors Bakke is from) private school families can no longer play for residence community based Edina Youth Hockey. Instead they will play for Hopkins and St. Louis Park. And, students that attend Lady of Grace School in Edina, from neighboring communities, will take the spots of the Edina kids as they're now members of Edina Youth Hockey. Oh, you fixed it now. Will the Wayzata and Edina families pull their kids out of private school so they can stay in the Wayzata and Edina Youth Hockey Associations?
Other than the authors, Bakke and Nagan, who did the lobbying around this for successful passage? It's really unbelievable. Let's name the guilty parties. Someone convinced 18 voters this was a good idea.
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Ron Hextall
- Posts: 58
- Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:23 am
If someone could please tell me why hockey seems to be the only sport that "forces" a kid to play in a particular demographic area?
Why should a parent, whose child truly enjoys the game, be "forced" to place their child in a particular association?
With the cost of hockey as high as it is, higher than virtually any other sport, why are a parents decisions forced?
We are all allowed to enroll are children in virtually any school we want based on what is best for our child. If a school district forced us to go to a particluar school what would the effects be?
I'll let Fredrick take care of the legal talk on all of this, but the bottom line is this.
If you build it they will come. If associations take the appropriate steps to build their program from the bottom up, making decisions based on the long term growth of their association instead of short cited decisions that will give you a winner for a season or two, or one particular group of kids coming through.
With the amount of money parents pay for hockey they should be able to choose where their kid plays, not the other way around.
To all associations, if you have kids that don't want to play for you. Let them go, don't force them to stick around, in the end its a win for both. The player is happy to leave and you don't have to deal with a kid/parent who doesn't want to be there.
If boards are spending their time discussing how to retain kids by forcing them to stay based on "boundary" rules, what are they doing to develop their program?
Just throw the residency/participation rule out. Allow parents to choose, its their money.
Why should a parent, whose child truly enjoys the game, be "forced" to place their child in a particular association?
With the cost of hockey as high as it is, higher than virtually any other sport, why are a parents decisions forced?
We are all allowed to enroll are children in virtually any school we want based on what is best for our child. If a school district forced us to go to a particluar school what would the effects be?
I'll let Fredrick take care of the legal talk on all of this, but the bottom line is this.
If you build it they will come. If associations take the appropriate steps to build their program from the bottom up, making decisions based on the long term growth of their association instead of short cited decisions that will give you a winner for a season or two, or one particular group of kids coming through.
With the amount of money parents pay for hockey they should be able to choose where their kid plays, not the other way around.
To all associations, if you have kids that don't want to play for you. Let them go, don't force them to stick around, in the end its a win for both. The player is happy to leave and you don't have to deal with a kid/parent who doesn't want to be there.
If boards are spending their time discussing how to retain kids by forcing them to stay based on "boundary" rules, what are they doing to develop their program?
Just throw the residency/participation rule out. Allow parents to choose, its their money.
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HockeyDad41
- Posts: 1238
- Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:40 pm
elliott70 wrote:I am going to contact Tom and see if we can amend this at the Fall meeting with provisions that can make both sides happy.[/quote]SWPrez wrote:He was one of the 5 that voted against this policy as he was fully aware of the damage it would do to our associations.InigoMontoya wrote:How did your DD vote?
Who is the side that presented this? Someone had to be championing this policy. What was their specific goal or problem they were trying to solve? What school systems/associations or parents were pushing this? This can't just be because of a poorly responded to survey conducted by Minnesota Hockey. There has to be something more or a "champion" behind this policy.
Someone must have answers as to the genesis of this policy discussion and the specific situations or problems it was trying to solve. One cannot even fathom what the goal of this policy was (or who the 'other side' is) without understanding what motivated it.
I ask Elliott to enlighten us if he can. It seems that no one understands why this was moved forward and until that is answered, it doesn't make sense.
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Night Train
- Posts: 350
- Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 1:16 pm
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InigoMontoya
- Posts: 1716
- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:36 pm
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countryboy
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 11:18 am
This isnt that hard
This rule is along time coming and not that complicated. If you want to play where you live you have that ability, just elect to stay where you play now or for new kids register where you live. If you want to play with classmates register where you go to school. Fact is from this point on you will be in the program of your choice for your entire youth career unless you physically move. DONE Simple. What this does is eliminate the variations through out the state. The fact is a few people tried to play god in the waiver process. It would be simple to say play where you live and if you wanted a waiver based on where you go to school than that would be honored and could not be blocked by the godfather. Stop trying to make more out of it than there is. Nobody is forced to change assoc. You have that control and had better put some thought in it as it is a one time choice.
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Community Based
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- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:01 am
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InigoMontoya
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