New participation rule

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:24 pm

For anyone who ever wanted a choice.

I'm not reading that there'll be a choice after this year.

nhl'er · Post by **nhl'er** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:29 pm

Community Based wrote:
This rule is along time coming and not that complicated.
That's totally false. It was not a long time coming and it's very complicated.

But I'll ask, since nobody seems to know, a long time coming for who?

A long time coming for kids that want to play with their school friends due to open enrollment. And to take the God powers away from lcoal association presidents who only care about their numbers vs what the child really wants "To just be able to play with his chosen friends"

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:37 pm

I'm not sure if people are reading different rules or reading the rule differently.

To me, this just seems to chuck everything up in the air to land in a different spot. The power hungry board members will either have different kids come to their associations, or have to go to different associations with their kids. Power corrupts - neither live nor learn will change that.

A long time coming for kids that want to play with their school friends due to open enrollment. And to take the God powers away from lcoal association presidents who only care about their numbers vs what the child really wants "To just be able to play with his chosen friends"

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:40 pm

play4fun wrote:
Community Based wrote:NEWS ALERT

Hopkins Becomes New Youth Hockey Power

Hopkins becomes huge benefactor with new Minnesota Hockey "Participation Rule." All students, K-12, that attend either Breck or Blake now become the property of Hopkins Youth Hockey Association. Families from Wayzata, Edina, Minneapolis and other nearby communities will now drive to Hopkins for their youth hockey experience instead of staying in the community where they live. A lot of driving back and forth to Hopkins but now the kids will get to play with their private school classmates. Some Youth Hockey Associations stand to lose as much as 50% of their membership to neighboring youth associations.

Other Associations will benefit as well based on if the private schools in their community starts in kindergarten or later grades. All kids that attend St. Thomas must now play in the Sibley Association. All kids that attend St. Paul Academy must now play with Highland-Central. All kids that attend Holy Angels must now play in the Richfield Association. All kids that attend Benilde must play with St. Louis Park.

A little satire but also notice that the new participation rule must be killed. Some families, somewhere, must have been wishing for this but I can't imagine all the private school families, in strong youth hockey associations, want to leave to play in a smaller and weaker association. Can you say backfired. I heard that at the State meeting the participants felt like they needed to pass something. Why? What was wrong with the structure that has been used forever?

Back to a 4 word rule. Play where you live.
Or, simply add a few words... Play where you live or go to school. Let people choose instead of being forced into playing under a one-size fits all rule. Community or school-based.

BUT that would give families much too much freedom in an otherwise freedom loving society and would scare some association boards way too much. Satirical? Or not.

This will be the crux of the amendment we put forward in September.
Problem being by that time, registration will be under way.

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:58 pm

I hope this passes, it's about time that families have been given some choice in this matter. Kids should be allowed to play with their school friends if they so choose.

And contrary to what Community-Based is saying; the sky won't fall.

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:03 pm

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:17 pm

The way I read it, you can choose to have your mite play where you live OR play where you learn. Once he's a squirt next year he has to play where he learns - no choice.

It doesn't only allow kids to choose to play with their classmates, it forces them to play with their classmates - except those who choose to be grandfathered this year.

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:40 pm

U10Father · Post by **U10Father** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:43 pm

Ron Hextall wrote:If someone could please tell me why hockey seems to be the only sport that "forces" a kid to play in a particular demographic area?

Why should a parent, whose child truly enjoys the game, be "forced" to place their child in a particular association?

The charm of Minnesota hockey is the community-based hockey program. It's what separates hockey from all the other sports.

Ron Hextall wrote:With the cost of hockey as high as it is, higher than virtually any other sport, why are a parents decisions forced?

Gotta have some rules, otherwise it turns into AAA.

Ron Hextall wrote:If you build it they will come. If associations take the appropriate steps to build their program from the bottom up, making decisions based on the long term growth of their association instead of short cited decisions that will give you a winner for a season or two, or one particular group of kids coming through.

I completely agree. But the answer isn't to move your kid, who's too good for the local association, into another. Instead of doing the work and helping to make your association better, you're just piggybacking on the work done by people in successful organizations. They'll take your kid because he/she's good. If your association doesn't have numbers to make a good program at a level, do a co-op thing. That's the way to make it work. If everyone stayed and did the work at home, we'd have more affective associations.

Ron Hextall wrote:With the amount of money parents pay for hockey they should be able to choose where their kid plays, not the other way around.

Great, do it in the summer at AAA. Heck, that season's longer than the regular season anyway. If you want to put your kid with the other all-stars (oops, I mean "friends"), go ahead. You can spend all the money you want that way.

Ron Hextall wrote:Just throw the residency/participation rule out. Allow parents to choose, its their money.

You CAN choose - if you don't like your association, do one of two things: 1) Help find a way to make it better, or 2) Don't play there. Bernie McBain will be happy to take your money. Or, I suppose, move to Eden Prairie.

They should NOT change the rule. If anything they should tighten it up and not allow Blake and St. Thomas to have associations. Play where you live, period, no exceptions, no waivers. Preserve the community-based hockey associations. Have some community pride.

I love that "My kid wants to play with his school friends" thing. B.S. You want your kid to play with other all-stars. It's okay to admit it. Just don't make this about what your kid wants. He/she probably doesn't want to drive for an hour to get to practice, but you don't care about THAT.

TriedThat2 · Post by **TriedThat2** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:44 pm

Mites can register and play at either the Affiliate of Residence or the Affiliate of School Attendance. Period. Don't read anything else into it.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:51 pm

from the MNH website:

IV. PARTICIPATION
A. PARTICIPATION POLICY
MH is a community-based amateur hockey program. Members in good standing are to participate on teams from their local affiliate (local association) based on where they attend school and the established MH affiliate boundaries as defined in the Affiliate Agreements. Mite-aged players are allowed to participate based on residence.

B. PARTICIPATION RULE
1. Youth Hockey players must play within the affiliate boundaries as defined by MH. If a player desires to play on a team outside of the player's affiliate boundary, the player must obtain written permission (waiver) from the president of governing body of both the releasing and receiving organization and receive the approval of the responsible district director(s). A player that participates without a necessary waiver is considered an ineligible player. Refer to the Section entitled Eligibility Provisions. A waiver must be obtained before a player can participate outside their affiliate boundary. A player that registers or participates with their affiliate cannot participate with any other affiliate without a waiver.
2. Starting with the 2009-2010 season, Affiliate Participation for Squirt-aged players and above is redefined as players attending school in the Affiliate's geographic area, rather than those who are residing in the Affiliate's geographic area.
a. Mite-aged players may choose to register in either their Affiliate of School Attendance or their Affiliate of Residence.
b. For school districts with multiple High Schools and multiple MH Affiliates, participation for Squirt-aged players and above shall be defined by one of the following:
i) A player attending an elementary, middle or junior high school whose geographical attendance area is completely within the geographical attendance area of a single high school is a member of the MH Affiliate covering that high school's area.
ii) A player attending an elementary, middle or junior high school whose geographical attendance area overlaps the geographical attendance areas of multiple high schools is a member of the MH Affiliate covering the location of the residence of the player's parent(s) or legal guardian(s).
c. Changing Schools; A player who newly enrolls in a school outside of the geographic boundary of their current Affiliate without a corresponding change of residence shall elect one of the following:
i) Retain full eligibility to compete at any classification in their Affiliate prior to the new school enrollment for one (1) year beginning with the first day of attendance in the new school, after which time the player shall become fully eligible in their Affiliate of School Attendance; or
ii) be eligible at the "B" classification or lower in their new Affiliate of School Attendance for one (1) year beginning with the first day of attendance in the new school.
d. For the 2009-2010 Season, players that participated in their Affiliate of Residence for the 2008?2009 Season but attended school elsewhere will be given a one-time choice to continue participation in their Affiliate of Residence. This alternate participation determination will continue through that player's Youth or Girls' Hockey career unless the player moves outside of their Affiliate of Residence geographical boundary, at which time school attendance will be used to determine Affiliate participation.
3. A player who is denied a waiver by his/her affiliate may appeal in writing to the responsible District Director who, after investigation, will issue a ruling. The decision of the District Director is final. Also see Section entitled Eligibility Provisions.
4. Players having dual citizenship, one being the United States, must also conform to the Participation rule.

I am not seeing the bold in HD41's post.

TT2, more from MNH:
1) Mite/8 & Under players can choose to register either based on the association that covers the location of their residence, or the association that covers the location of the school they are attending.This provision was included to encourage more Mite-aged players to try hockey.
2) Squirt/10 & Under players and up must participate with their Association of School Attendance. Participation in any other Association must be by waiver.3) Players must be attending school(public or private) in an association's geographic boundary for one year before they are eligible for "A" teams.
4) For the 2009-2010 Season, players previously attending school outside of their association of residence will have a one-time choice to continue participation with their association of residence.

My bold on the explaination from MNH.
[/quote]

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:54 pm

Community Based · Post by **Community Based** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:55 pm

Sounds like a few of you are ok having your name on this change. Nice.

St. Thomas and Blake will not have youth associations unless you know something that hasn't been explained yet. No schools have youth hockey teams as only Minnesota Hockey affiliates, that offer teams at all levels, have youth hockey teams. The St. Thomas and Blake kids will skate for Sibley and Hopkins at the Sibley and Hopkins arenas.

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:58 pm

countryboy · Post by **countryboy** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:58 pm

Hockeydad41 nailed it. This rule is VERY simple and you do have a choice. Play where you live or play where you go to school. IF you want to play where you live choose that and do it for your careeer. If you want to play where you go to school do it and your there for your career. This year you have a choice based on where you played last year. Simple!!! If you are a new mite you pick your program when you start squirts and that is where you play for your career. Come on people this is not that hard. Stop your whining and read the rule. It is simple. As a rule you play where you go to school if you dont want to make the choice to play where you live and stick with it for your career.
IT IS SIMPLE AND THE SAME FOR EVERYONE. No one person gets to play god and force their views on you and your family. Man it doesnt get any better than this!!!!!!!!

muckandgrind · Post by **muckandgrind** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:15 pm

Community Based wrote:Sounds like a few of you are ok having your name on this change. Nice.

St. Thomas and Blake will not have youth associations unless you know something that hasn't been explained yet. No schools have youth hockey teams as only Minnesota Hockey affiliates, that offer teams at all levels, have youth hockey teams. The St. Thomas and Blake kids will skate for Sibley and Hopkins at the Sibley and Hopkins arenas.

Your example would only take effect in Bantams, but even so.....who gives a rip? Why do you have such an issue with kids wanting to play hockey with their friends?

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 3:44 pm

Countryboy, I don't think your concept is bad, and I do think your idea is simple. All I'm saying is, that's not the way it's written. If that's truly the way we all would like it to work, then let's write the rule to make it so.

hockeyover40 · Post by **hockeyover40** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:01 pm

Maybe I'm way off base here but it's sounding like every kid will have a choice when he/she becomes squirt/u10 age. Not only this year. As a mite, you have a choice to enroll in either where you live or where you attend school. When you become squirt/U10 age you have to choose which association, live or learn, that you want to play for throughout your youth age.

So next year if you have a 1st year mite he/she will choose live or learn, play 3 years at the mite level and then make his/her choice. Every year a new group of 1st year squirt/U10's will be making a choice.

That sure sounds a lot better than 1st year squirt/U10 having a choice this year, but subsequent years having to play where they go to school.

TriedThat2 · Post by **TriedThat2** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:11 pm

HO40,
They will not have a choice. They play where they go to school. The one time choice is only this year.

multiplesportskids · Post by **multiplesportskids** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:21 pm

How does this new rule effect squirt aged players that would play for
the Fire next season ? Do they need a waiver ? If they returned to
association hockey the following season, would the "B" penalty apply?

a1puck · Post by **a1puck** » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:46 pm

The genesis of these rules is not hard to understand. It is much like your local youth baseball organization trying to put kids from each neighborhood together into teams, not letting one dad/coach cherry pick the best players from across town. The idea is to have a few more teams to play and have the playing field be somewhat even. No "team building"

It is the reason we have so many kids playing in Minnesota. Even small towns with not much success can field a team and give more kids a chance to play.

This is the idea. It may be dead.

Minnesota State High School league has rules of it's own with this same intent at the heart, across all sports.

stupidiswhatstupiddoes · Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:59 pm

multiplesportskids wrote:How does this new rule effect squirt aged players that would play for
the Fire next season ? Do they need a waiver ? If they returned to
association hockey the following season, would the "B" penalty apply?

uh,oh - Elliot, can you shed some light the question regarding playing for the Fire and what happens when you come back to your "affiliate" - specifically the part about playing "b". Thank you.

U10Father · Post by **U10Father** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:40 pm

I love your "what are you afraid of" line.

It's never a problem for the very best kids. They will play no matter what. It's the bubble kids. Say your kid is #14 in Woodbury. A couple kids come into your association who are great and bump your kid off the A team. It would be great if your kid were then allowed to go over to Stillwater or Eastview or wherever where your kid might be the 8th best player, but no way will Woodbury let your kid (and his registration fee) leave.

Helps one kid's development, hurts lots of others.

If all the top associations did their tryouts, then allowed all the bubble kids to come in and try out, I'd be in favor of the "play where you go to school" rule, but I'm really all in favor of closing all loopholes.

Play where you live. In the Spring and Summer, play with "friends" - er- All-Stars.

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:26 pm