2010-2011 D1 Commitments

observer · Post by **observer** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:01 am

Pretty sure I've read that there are actually few to no full rides. The Ivy League has no athletic scholarships. Wasn't there an article about the Gopher men splitting 10 scholarships among 25 players. There aren't 25 to give. Pretty sure even Kessel and Okposo weren't on full rides. But, they may have received a bigger percentage than some of the other players. Different percentages covered, that can change, year to year. The information is very interesting. Is it public? It would be interesting to see a list of the players and the percentage of their scholarship. I remember Lucia mentioning that it's a big juggling act as he pieces together a team of stars and role players as he can't just go out and offer all scholarships.

Minnesota Fan · Post by **Minnesota Fan** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:02 am

hockeywild7 wrote:I ask because I know how expensive colleges are. And I am curious as to what colleges do as far as giving out scholarships. Are most players on full rides or do schools try to split to get more kids opportunities as I know they are limited in the number they can give out. Thats all, no need to jump on me about it, not sure why some of you are so defensive about an innocent question lilke that.

I asked why because I wanted to know where you were coming from. I think your question brings up some good points. It also will help parents understand that not everyone is on a full ride and the amount of scholarship does not determine the players worth.

wild77 · Post by **wild77** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:22 am

Minnesota Fan wrote:
I asked why because I wanted to know where you were coming from. I think your question brings up some good points. It also will help parents understand that not everyone is on a full ride and the amount of scholarship does not determine the players worth.

The size of the scholarship (quarter, half, etc) singedly does not determine your worth. But the scholarship size in relation to all the scholarships on the team does define your worth to that coach at that time.

OntheEdge · Post by **OntheEdge** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:26 am

hockey1510 wrote:
How many parents have spent thousands of dollars every year on Hockey training for their kids hoping to get a full ride scholarship,
if it is not there is that the best or smartest choice? I have heard of a parents putting out 3-5K a year for training and then another 7-10k to be in a private school to play hockey hoping to get that scholarship, and the few kids that actually do get one is most likely less than we know. Or maybe we dont want to know
It IS an interesting question But...

If the primary reason that you are spending the money, time and effort to have your kid(s) play summer hockey, go to camps and possibly go to a private school, is to earn a full ride scholarship to college; then in my opinion you're doing it for the wrong reason. These are kids and they're only kids once. If we as parents are putting "full ride scolarship" pressure on our 12, 14 and 16 year old kids, and believe me they can "read" our intentions pretty well, then we are doing them in injustice.

I will give my daughter opportinities to improve herself as a player because this is a game that she absolutely loves to play, and wants to continue to pay it at a higher level. It's an investment in her happiness and along the way it's teaching her how to develope a passion and strive to be the best at what she does. Those are lessons that I think will serve her well beyond the end of her competitive hockey playing days, whenever that may be. Would I be thrilled and proud of her if she were to be able to play hockey at the next level? Absolutely, but if JV or Varsity HS hockey is the end of the road for her, I certainly won't be going back through my checkbook to see how much money I've "wasted".

Just my opinion!

I share your opinion but there are people who are not financially savy. The fallout from our present economy demonstrates this fact. I think it helps people to understand that there is not any gold at the end of the rainbow and spending money on hockey training for your child is a luxury not an investment. Its an expense. If you can afford it, great and if not...

Hockey is fun and your kid will get lots of good lessons from working hard, etc but from a financial standpoint you would be much better off saving the money and putting it into a college fund and giving them life lessons in something less expensive.

Minnesota Fan · Post by **Minnesota Fan** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:37 am

wild77 wrote:
Minnesota Fan wrote:
I asked why because I wanted to know where you were coming from. I think your question brings up some good points. It also will help parents understand that not everyone is on a full ride and the amount of scholarship does not determine the players worth.
The size of the scholarship (quarter, half, etc) singedly does not determine your worth. But the scholarship size in relation to all the scholarships on the team does define your worth to that coach at that time.

I don't agree. I have seen a player on a full ride with limited playing time and on that same team they have a walk on with a key roll

joehockey · Post by **joehockey** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:01 am

It is an interesting question - ask parents you know who have gone through the process - several variables to consider that we have learned along the way. I recommend as you do unofficial visits to ask - the coaches will share the philosophhy they use - may make a difference on where you want to go. It is a key question to ask after you ask do you see me as a scholarship player (you would be surprised by answers and it will clarify where the school is on your daughter)

1) Each scholarship school has a different approach - some of the best WCHA schools don't have to give full rides because everyone wants to play there - some schools like to bring a player in on a partial and then give more on the go forward. There is a difference across schools on how many players they have in the program from 18 to 24.

2) On the financial aid schools out east you will have to fill out and submit your financials - if you did a good job saving setting up 529's and putting money away either yourself or for you daughter it will all come out. If they really want you the range might be as low as 10% or as high as 30% (or even if you have done really well no aid) of your annualgross family income toward the $50,000-$60,000 all in cost. Part of the financial aid may require the player to work 7-10 hours a week in a school job, plus 20-30 hours a week plus competing against the best and brightest from the world. The Ivy coaches would say they don't give 4 year scholarships but rather 40 year scholarships and would say and Ivy education that cost you out of pocket with aid $80,000 only requires your child to make $2000 more in income per year - studies would say you should/could make more than that over a public education.

3) Last the driver in all this though is your daughter a D1 player - will she play? Does she like the school and would she stay there if injured. Is it the best program for what she wants to study and earn a living in for 40 years. Hopefully your duaghters will have options but if the school has a great offer but your daughter won't be happy and excel is any money worth what you get?

Melvin44 · Post by **Melvin44** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:14 pm

hockeywild7 wrote:I ask because I know how expensive colleges are. And I am curious as to what colleges do as far as giving out scholarships. Are most players on full rides or do schools try to split to get more kids opportunities as I know they are limited in the number they can give out. Thats all, no need to jump on me about it, not sure why some of you are so defensive about an innocent question lilke that.

I'm not jumping on you.

Only stating it's nobody's business. It's like asking a person how much they make. I think everyone knows schools give out different amounts in the way of scholarships. Who cares how much. I could care less about trying to make money back that I've spent for hockey. I have so many memories and great times with not only my daughter but all the friends I've met along the way.

Again let me say that if a player were to tell you they got 25% some would say she's not that good of a player. I'm telling you whomever is talented enough to get a chance to play D1 hockey even at a limited role has achieved allot and should be congratulated.

hockeywild7 · Post by **hockeywild7** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:45 pm

Again, I was not asking for anyone to tell me specific names and or dollar amounts. I was only curious as to how many girls are getting full rides versus partial scholarships, that simple. No agenda here. Don't read anything into it. I am not making anything my business other than to ask this question. I could care less how much money any parent spends on their childs athletic endeavors or whether or not it returned a "dividend". And yes an athlete who goes on to play a sport at the next level is to be congratulated. I am not categorizing anyone as to how much they got or didnt get and I am not saying they are a better or worse player because of how much they did or didnt get.

hockeywonder · Post by **hockeywonder** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:06 pm

Check your PM

hockeywonder · Post by **hockeywonder** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:22 pm

hockeywild7 wrote:Again, I was not asking for anyone to tell me specific names and or dollar amounts. I was only curious as to how many girls are getting full rides versus partial scholarships, that simple. No agenda here. Don't read anything into it. I am not making anything my business other than to ask this question. I could care less how much money any parent spends on their childs athletic endeavors or whether or not it returned a "dividend". And yes an athlete who goes on to play a sport at the next level is to be congratulated. I am not categorizing anyone as to how much they got or didnt get and I am not saying they are a better or worse player because of how much they did or didnt get.

Attaining a spot on a D1 team is a great achievement whether you are on scholarship or a walk on; however, I believe that the scholarship amount offered is a reflection of the coach's assesment of the player's potential value to the team. i.e. better players get higher % offers. I don't mean this to be disparaging to any players that got a smaller scholarship, but it is what I have seen. In women's hockey, some schools have a few 100% scholarships available while at other schools 90% is a "full ride". In men's hockey, I have heard that 75% is about the maximum that schools are offering (of course there are a few exceptions).

As Joehockey said, players should always consider whether the school is somewhere they would want to continue if their hockey career came to a sudden end. Ultimately, an education is what you want to get out of college.

Melvin44 · Post by **Melvin44** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:40 pm

hockeywonder wrote:
hockeywild7 wrote:Again, I was not asking for anyone to tell me specific names and or dollar amounts. I was only curious as to how many girls are getting full rides versus partial scholarships, that simple. No agenda here. Don't read anything into it. I am not making anything my business other than to ask this question. I could care less how much money any parent spends on their childs athletic endeavors or whether or not it returned a "dividend". And yes an athlete who goes on to play a sport at the next level is to be congratulated. I am not categorizing anyone as to how much they got or didnt get and I am not saying they are a better or worse player because of how much they did or didnt get.
Attaining a spot on a D1 team is a great achievement whether you are on scholarship or a walk on; however, I believe that the scholarship amount offered is a reflection of the coach's assesment of the player's potential value to the team. i.e. better players get higher % offers. I don't mean this to be disparaging to any players that got a smaller scholarship, but it is what I have seen. In women's hockey, some schools have a few 100% scholarships available while at other schools 90% is a "full ride". In men's hockey, I have heard that 75% is about the maximum that schools are offering (of course there are a few exceptions).

As Joehockey said, players should always consider whether the school is somewhere they would want to continue if their hockey career came to a sudden end. Ultimately, an education is what you want to get out of college.

I agree with what you're saying about coach assessment. But still feel it's between the player and the school/coach. noone else should need or deserve to know.

HW77 I'm not slamming you. Just stating my opinion as are you just asking a question.

wild77 · Post by **wild77** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:21 pm

Minnesota Fan wrote:
wild77 wrote:
Minnesota Fan wrote:
I asked why because I wanted to know where you were coming from. I think your question brings up some good points. It also will help parents understand that not everyone is on a full ride and the amount of scholarship does not determine the players worth.
The size of the scholarship (quarter, half, etc) singedly does not determine your worth. But the scholarship size in relation to all the scholarships on the team does define your worth to that coach at that time.
I don't agree. I have seen a player on a full ride with limited playing time and on that same team they have a walk on with a key roll

That is not the norm, but I agree it can happen. A college coach that invests money in a player will generally give that player all the oppurtunity to play themselves out of the lineup before a walk on gets much of a sniff.

Bensonmum · Post by **Bensonmum** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:45 pm

Melvin44 wrote:This should'nt be anyone's business. Who cares.

Playing D1 hockey is a great achievement. These girls should be congratulated with no questions asked.

Bull. This one really burns me. As a taxpayer I'm paying for the education, living quarters, and food, among other things, for the athletes getting athletic scholarships at Minnesota public institutions. Likewise an alumnus donor to a private college. If a sex-crazed, drug-smoking D-student who's constantly teetering on the edge of academic probation and has no intention of getting within a country mile of a degree is getting a free ride with my money that I no longer have to use on my own children's education, you bet your ass it's my business.
It makes me exactly as angry as when the state university uses my money to give scholarships or plum teaching assistant jobs to residents of other countries who don't speak English.
I'd bet that there were at least a handful of Minnesota girls in the 2009 class who had the dream of playing at the U of M right up until their senior year, and didn't get the scholarship. How do you suppose they feel right now knowing the U gave scholarships to 2 women from Finland, one of whom sounds like a big stiff and was maybe given a deal just so her Finnish teammate and friend would seal the deal? Wouldn't you like to know how much of my money is going to Finnish citizens? It sure as hell is my business.
Serenity Now, Serenity Now, Serenity Now, Serenity Now.......

OnFrozenPond · Post by **OnFrozenPond** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:38 pm

Minnesota Fan wrote:
wild77 wrote:
Minnesota Fan wrote:
I asked why because I wanted to know where you were coming from. I think your question brings up some good points. It also will help parents understand that not everyone is on a full ride and the amount of scholarship does not determine the players worth.
The size of the scholarship (quarter, half, etc) singedly does not determine your worth. But the scholarship size in relation to all the scholarships on the team does define your worth to that coach at that time.
I don't agree. I have seen a player on a full ride with limited playing time and on that same team they have a walk on with a key roll

Aren't the scholorships renewable annually? In this case would they reduce the scholorshop amount for one and offer some to the walk on?

OntheEdge · Post by **OntheEdge** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:26 pm

OnFrozenPond wrote:
Minnesota Fan wrote:
wild77 wrote: The size of the scholarship (quarter, half, etc) singedly does not determine your worth. But the scholarship size in relation to all the scholarships on the team does define your worth to that coach at that time.
I don't agree. I have seen a player on a full ride with limited playing time and on that same team they have a walk on with a key roll

Aren't the scholorships renewable annually? In this case would they reduce the scholorshop amount for one and offer some to the walk on?

Good question. I don't know the answer but I have always heard that a school will ask a player to reduce their scholarship. I have not heard of anyone's scholarship being pulled or reduced without their permission but I guess it depends on how the contract is written.

iceage · Post by **iceage** » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:55 am

[/quote]
Aren't the scholorships renewable annually? In this case would they reduce the scholorshop amount for one and offer some to the walk on?[/quote]

Good question. I don't know the answer but I have always heard that a school will ask a player to reduce their scholarship. I have not heard of anyone's scholarship being pulled or reduced without their permission but I guess it depends on how the contract is written.[/quote]

Virtually all scholarships are renewed annually. You can have a scholarship reduced or cancelled for poor performance both athletically or academically. The student does not need to be asked but there are NCAA appeal processes for the student. No scholarship is a guarentee. This is written into all scholarship boilerplates that I am aware of. An injury generally will not stop the financial aid but a permanent injury most likely will.

On the financial issue, women ice hockey players (and men) generally fair better than most sports. For Division 1 schools, the NCAA allows 18 full scholarships for women's ice hockey. But since hockey is not a head-count sport the scholarship money can be divided up between all players. A hockey roster usually contains 22 players so with 18 full scholarships to spread out. you can see that most of the cost is picked up by all players. Schools also have the option of giving the full scholarship to individual players but most players receive a sizeable chunk. The last statistics I could find is for the 2002-2003 season and the average women's scholarship for hockey was $20,540.00 (and $21,755.00 for men). These values ranked 1 and 2 for all average college sport scholarship amounts. Getting one of these scholarships is another matter. There are 35 Division 1 schools that offer women's hockey for a total of 770 scholarships. For 2008, there were 7350 high school girls trying to get one of them so it is roughly a 1 in 10 chance of being sucessful. But these odds are much better than most sports. Division 2 hockey is almost non-existent (only 2 schools offered women's hockey according to the NCAA website - this was a 2006 statistic). There are 45 Division 3 schools that offer women's hockey. NCCA rules do not allow athletic scholarships for Div 3 but it still can be financially rewarding since Div 3 schools can be very flexible with merit and need scholarships.

joehockey · Post by **joehockey** » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:02 am

Great info Iceage - another more conservative number could be if there are about 30 MN kids who get to D1 a year there are 7350 competing for those 30 spots or .4% or 1 in about 200.

If you broke past recruits down by areas of the state (Metro or SE or NW or NE or SW) odds might differ up or down.....my sense is there are maybe 2/3 of D1 players coming from the metro.

Have your kids play hockey for the lifetime skills of social skills, team work, leadership lessons, goal setting, mental discipline, coach-ability, healthy physical outlook and ability to compete - college D1 is a bonus but also a trade off as the players probably spend 20-30 hours a week on hockey and in most top programs are expected to train as a team or following a standard program 11 months a year. If you have invested $2000 (this is probably on the extreme side for a public HS player doing lots of summer training/games) for ten years to develop these skills you have spent $20,000 to watch your daughter grow over a 40 year career that is an investment in health, happiness and success of $500 a year in increased compensation a pretty good return. On the Edge you can run the present value and return better than I - I just do country math but I am likely understating.

Another by the numbers evaluation...if you recieved a $80,000 4 year scholarship to a state school to play hockey or you worked 30 hours a week at $10/hour for 48 weeks a year for 4 years while you went to school.....you would make $57,600 towards school so hockey is better assuming full scholarship. So the break even is the player is making about $13.88/hour for those 30 hours/week of work. If you went to a more expensive school say $50,000/year for a 4 year scholarship the 30 hours a week would be about $35/hour.

brookyone · Post by **brookyone** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:56 pm

Anyone have opinions they'd be willing to share regarding the best players remaining that have not committed publicly at this time? There's lots of fine players whom we've not heard commitment info for...which is fine. Just interested in thoughts on those that fans would expect to play D-I, with no publicized verbal as of now.

Bensonmum · Post by **Bensonmum** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:10 pm

I've only heard about 5 plus 2 SSM girls.
How about Alleva, Gallup, and McDonald for U of M prospects to join Brausen. Don't the Gophers usually acquire 2-3 Minnesota girls every year?
Or how about Gallup and at least one of the Roseville girls join Dani Williams at BSU.

Hux · Post by **Hux** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:14 pm

Bensonmum wrote:
Melvin44 wrote:This should'nt be anyone's business. Who cares.

Playing D1 hockey is a great achievement. These girls should be congratulated with no questions asked.
Bull. This one really burns me. As a taxpayer I'm paying for the education, living quarters, and food, among other things, for the athletes getting athletic scholarships at Minnesota public institutions. Likewise an alumnus donor to a private college. If a sex-crazed, drug-smoking D-student who's constantly teetering on the edge of academic probation and has no intention of getting within a country mile of a degree is getting a free ride with my money that I no longer have to use on my own children's education, you bet your ass it's my business.
It makes me exactly as angry as when the state university uses my money to give scholarships or plum teaching assistant jobs to residents of other countries who don't speak English.
I'd bet that there were at least a handful of Minnesota girls in the 2009 class who had the dream of playing at the U of M right up until their senior year, and didn't get the scholarship. How do you suppose they feel right now knowing the U gave scholarships to 2 women from Finland, one of whom sounds like a big stiff and was maybe given a deal just so her Finnish teammate and friend would seal the deal? Wouldn't you like to know how much of my money is going to Finnish citizens? It sure as hell is my business.
Serenity Now, Serenity Now, Serenity Now, Serenity Now.......

This subject was covered a few years ago on USCHO. Apparently tax dollars do not underwrite athletic scholarships for Minnesota state schools.

Bensonmum · Post by **Bensonmum** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:04 am

OK, point taken if that's true....
How about the season ticket holders? Is that where the money is coming from? Are we treating the Athletic Department as a private enterprise then? Student-athletes on scholarship are employed by and accountable only to the athletic department and those (ticket buyers) who pay their salaries? Nobody else needs to know the business since the funds are technically seperate from the university at large? OK, I'm good with that. Drop the crapola about student-athlete then.

Melvin44 · Post by **Melvin44** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 1:32 pm

Bensonmum wrote:
Melvin44 wrote:This should'nt be anyone's business. Who cares.

Playing D1 hockey is a great achievement. These girls should be congratulated with no questions asked.
Bull. This one really burns me. As a taxpayer I'm paying for the education, living quarters, and food, among other things, for the athletes getting athletic scholarships at Minnesota public institutions. Likewise an alumnus donor to a private college. If a sex-crazed, drug-smoking D-student who's constantly teetering on the edge of academic probation and has no intention of getting within a country mile of a degree is getting a free ride with my money that I no longer have to use on my own children's education, you bet your ass it's my business.
It makes me exactly as angry as when the state university uses my money to give scholarships or plum teaching assistant jobs to residents of other countries who don't speak English.
I'd bet that there were at least a handful of Minnesota girls in the 2009 class who had the dream of playing at the U of M right up until their senior year, and didn't get the scholarship. How do you suppose they feel right now knowing the U gave scholarships to 2 women from Finland, one of whom sounds like a big stiff and was maybe given a deal just so her Finnish teammate and friend would seal the deal? Wouldn't you like to know how much of my money is going to Finnish citizens? It sure as hell is my business.
Serenity Now, Serenity Now, Serenity Now, Serenity Now.......

I think the original question by HW77 was How many of these D1 players are getting full rides? Meaning current Minnesota girls were getting full rides.

I still think it's no ones business. Yes, if there is a player with the baggage you mention above. Of course a scholorship should be recinded or looked into. I'd hope that's very rare and that a coach would do the correct thing and pull the scholorship.

I also wish local/American girls would be considered first before taking a foreign player. It seemed to work well in the past. Maybe he felt pressure losing his star girls to ND?

I do love the Brausen pick. She is outstanding and will be fun to watch.

Bensonmum · Post by **Bensonmum** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 2:18 pm

I would imagine there has never been a problem with a woman hockey player at the U of M. They're probably the last group of athletes we have to worry about and we should appreciate their presence at the U and congratulate them for their success.
I attended the U during the Mitch Lee era if you're wondering where my sensitivity on this issue comes from.

hockeywild7 · Post by **hockeywild7** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:21 pm

NO, my original question had nothing to do with Minnesota kids. I was asking in total how many players are getting full rides? I don't care who they are, where they are from or how good they are. All I was asking is how many girls are on full scholarships vs. paritals. Nothing personal about any player or program. I don't care if a girls plays D3 or D1, it is an accomplishment. I will say that there are some D3 players who are getting more financial aid than some D1 because of their grades. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned from that.

Melvin44 · Post by **Melvin44** » Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:45 pm

My mistake. Your post was written right after everyone was posting where Minnesota kids were going.

Sorry.

I still don't feel anyone needs to know unless the players want to tell.