MN Made Machine coming apart (as predicted)?

ThePuckStopsHere · Post by **ThePuckStopsHere** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:58 am

Alright fine, I will go in the corner and jump up and down until I can spell possesses, wow I thought McMoney was tough!!

Doglover · Post by **Doglover** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 3:24 pm

Hockeydad hasn't even had the much desired chance to even sip the Koolaide (kids too young) yet he defends what he doesn't understand.
We all knew it would eventually implode but you gotta feel bad for the kids. These stories are crazy and I'm sure more than a few young hockey players have been turned off the game as a result. Come on people - it's a game - relax and enjoy the ride.

northwoods oldtimer · Post by **northwoods oldtimer** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:07 pm

Doglover the mark of a good coach is measured well into the future when the kid is giving back to the game, still physically active in lifem well adjusted and possibly still playing the game taking the late ice. Some of these jacked up coaches have no clue how much of a negative impact they are placing on the kid. When I was young our teams would just get walloped by the strong programs yet never once did the coach humiliate us. He took us out for ice cream than we went back to the outdoor rink and played long into the winter night. It is amazing to see how many of those guys are still playing in old timer leagues. Now in my area we are seeing less and less young guys show up as each season passes. I often wondered if the younger guys just have a sour taste of the game. Reading this kind of validates my thoughts a bit.

fantasycamp · Post by **fantasycamp** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:28 pm

I was told that the coach who would not let his players shake hands with the mavs this weekend was removed from the coaching postion.
Any one else hear this.
If true Minnesota Made did the right thing.
He may be a nice guy but these are little boys playing a game for fun.

ilike2score · Post by **ilike2score** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:33 pm

He is a not nice guy if he did not shake hands at end of game. I can think of zero, absolutley zero situtaions where you you do not shake hands

trippedovertheblueline · Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:39 pm

ilike2score wrote:He is a not nice guy if he did not shake hands at end of game. I can think of zero, absolutley zero situtaions where you you do not shake hands

who was the coach?

puckfan · Post by **puckfan** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:12 pm

"BEEP...BEEP...BEEP" lets back the truck up here for a minute off the former coach for "not shaking hands after the game"

Is it true that they had a handshake before the game.......or is that just a myth?

I can think of zero, absolutley zero situtaions where you you do not shake hands

I've been to a few where they have the kids shake hands before the game and not after.

fastncrash · Post by **fastncrash** » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:42 pm

puckfan wrote:"BEEP...BEEP...BEEP" lets back the truck up here for a minute off the former coach for "not shaking hands after the game"

Is it true that they had a handshake before the game.......or is that just a myth?

I can think of zero, absolutley zero situtaions where you you do not shake hands
I've been to a few where they have the kids shake hands before the game and not after.

NO, handshake before the game. The game itself was competitive for a period and a half and then their numbers just outran the Mavs. The Deuce is a very good team. All pretty much the same size, not many weak points for sure, but they were only the 2nd best team by a long way. There was an excellent sized team who beat up everyone physically, and mentally. Just an advanced team for supposedly being the first checking Tournament for this age group.

puckfan · Post by **puckfan** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:37 am

So you're saying there was or was not a handshake before the game?

Regardless of if there was one or not how do handle the "Pre-game" handshake? Do you shake hands again after the game too?

fastncrash · Post by **fastncrash** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:05 am

puckfan wrote: So you're saying there was or was not a handshake before the game?

Regardless of if there was one or not how do handle the "Pre-game" handshake? Do you shake hands again after the game too?

NO, pre-game handshake. The handshake was only one of many isses that come about during this game. BOTTOM line,... it's just NOT the type of Coaching that should be allowed in USA HOCKEY.

greybeard58 · Post by **greybeard58** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:29 am

These are not USA Hockey sanctioned teams or sanctioned events. Had this been under the governing body of USA Hockey/Mn Hockey/District/Association there probably would have been a meeting with the coach, association or others.

puckfan · Post by **puckfan** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:29 am

it's just NOT the type of Coaching that should be allowed in USA HOCKEY.

Nothing to do with USA hockey by the way..........

Penalty Box · Post by **Penalty Box** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:46 am

Interesting commentary by a group of folks one can only assume has never made a mistake in front of their children or other children. I was not at these games, and I assume most of you were not either. And while, on the surface at least, it appears the actions taken by the coach w/r/t the handshake (or lack thereof) were inappropriate, I am left to wonder a few things:

1) Could these kids have learned a valuable lesson if the coach had been given the opportunity to apologize, explain to the kids what he should have done differently, and tell the kids what too many adults seem unwiling to admit -- we make mistakes, too?

2) How is it not a double standard to say that MM made the right decision by relieving the coach of his duties?

One of the 98 Machine coaches is in such hot water w/ USA Hockey that he is not allowed (by USA Hockey) to coach the Fire, yet he is allowed (by MM) to coach the Machine.

3) Do you actually understand how much of their personal lives these coaches give to these kids?

Most of you drop your kid off at practice and go run errands or stand in the lobby complaining about the coaching for two hours. The coach, on the other hand, has been at home for at least 1/2 an hour putting together a practice plan, after which he probably beat you to the rink by at least 20 minutes. After he puts in 2 hours on the ice with your kid, he also has to wait for his kid to change out of his gear, just like you do, but you get to stand in the lobby acting impatient because you have just wasted 15 minutes of your life waiting -- and you have things to do! When he gets home, the coach will probably spend time debating whether he was too hard on the kids, or too easy, or he missed something in practice that he could have helped them with a little more. In return, if he makes one mistake...you will all call for his head on a platter.

4) How long, if you all keep behaving like this, will it be until no one wants to give up their sunny 85 degree day to coach your kid -- indoors on a cold sheet of ice -- so he is ready for the D1 scholarship you expect out of AAA hockey?

fastncrash · Post by **fastncrash** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:56 am

puckfan wrote:
it's just NOT the type of Coaching that should be allowed in USA HOCKEY.
Nothing to do with USA hockey by the way..........

Ahhhh.... I was wondering how many people were/are aware of this? It's OBVIOUS that the Coach of the Deuce was aware that there's no authority, or so he thought...

If the Coach's for the 98 Deuce were excused, good for MMade and especially the KIDS.

If the Coach's for the Deuce are planning on Coaching in MN this Winter the way they did at Duluth, well, good luck with that as they will be watched closely.

sorno82 · Post by **sorno82** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:26 am

Most everyone knows of the style of coaching that MM uses and have probably witnessed some form of humiliation or extreme discipline being used.

Are people finally leaving? or is it just a couple here or there, which is not much of a story.

ilike2score · Post by **ilike2score** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:08 pm

Who cares if the coach is sanctioned by Mn Hockey, Usa Hockey, or Wi Hockey. You shake hands at the end of the game. PERIOD.

hockey_is_a_choice · Post by **hockey_is_a_choice** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:50 pm

1) Could these kids have learned a valuable lesson if the coach had been given the opportunity to apologize, explain to the kids what he should have done differently, and tell the kids what too many adults seem unwiling to admit -- we make mistakes, too?

2) How is it not a double standard to say that MM made the right decision by relieving the coach of his duties?

One of the 98 Machine coaches is in such hot water w/ USA Hockey that he is not allowed (by USA Hockey) to coach the Fire, yet he is allowed (by MM) to coach the Machine.

3) Do you actually understand how much of their personal lives these coaches give to these kids?

Most of you drop your kid off at practice and go run errands or stand in the lobby complaining about the coaching for two hours. The coach, on the other hand, has been at home for at least 1/2 an hour putting together a practice plan, after which he probably beat you to the rink by at least 20 minutes. After he puts in 2 hours on the ice with your kid, he also has to wait for his kid to change out of his gear, just like you do, but you get to stand in the lobby acting impatient because you have just wasted 15 minutes of your life waiting -- and you have things to do! When he gets home, the coach will probably spend time debating whether he was too hard on the kids, or too easy, or he missed something in practice that he could have helped them with a little more. In return, if he makes one mistake...you will all call for his head on a platter.

4) How long, if you all keep behaving like this, will it be until no one wants to give up their sunny 85 degree day to coach your kid -- indoors on a cold sheet of ice -- so he is ready for the D1 scholarship you expect out of AAA hockey?

PenaltyBox, as I tell my son, "suck it up." So parents don't think you're perfect, get over it.

So parents expect you to be a role model, shake hands with the opposing team and not punish your players by humiliating them, that's your job as the coach. Zero tolerance for failing to be a decent human being and a role model. Ask Bobby Knight what Indiana did to him when he behaved like a jerk. If you lack judgment, no apology will make up for the fact that you lack good judgment. Besides, children need to be taught that there are consequences for being the poster boy for bad behavior.

So you spend more time than the parents at the arena, good for you. Your kid also plays for free.

bluemind · Post by **bluemind** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:35 pm

Coaches are important and kids can learn something good or bad from them, so are teachers. I actually know both guys, they are good men with solid families and they care a lot about what people think of them. I am not amused as people take pot shots from the cheap seats because it simply is inappropriate to judge others like some have done here.

The moron that casts the first stone should probably put down the beer, take a deep uneven breath and ask themselves why so bitter? Was it a failure in their personal sporting past? Was it about momma not loving you enough? Was it manifested in a poor relationship with your father. I think not.. I think maybe it is too easy to be hyper critical in the cyber world. I the real world face to face it is a little more sobering to say it to someone face to face.

Let the first beer fattened middle aged guy cast the first stone upon the volunteer who spends more quality time with your youngster then you do. I submit this critical commentary would be quite different if your youngster was standing beside you when you said it.

council member retired · Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:52 pm

where does the behavior of the duece coach(es) talk about ripping on their players? I maybe older but I didn't read it.

fastncrash · Post by **fastncrash** » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:52 pm

bluemind wrote:Coaches are important and kids can learn something good or bad from them, so are teachers. I actually know both guys, they are good men with solid families and they care a lot about what people think of them. I am not amused as people take pot shots from the cheap seats because it simply is inappropriate to judge others like some have done here.

The moron that casts the first stone should probably put down the beer, take a deep uneven breath and ask themselves why so bitter? Was it a failure in their personal sporting past? Was it about momma not loving you enough? Was it manifested in a poor relationship with your father. I think not.. I think maybe it is too easy to be hyper critical in the cyber world. I the real world face to face it is a little more sobering to say it to someone face to face.

Let the first beer fattened middle aged guy cast the first stone upon the volunteer who spends more quality time with your youngster then you do. I submit this critical commentary would be quite different if your youngster was standing beside you when you said it.

IF, you know them both... PROVE IT. Ask either one of them why they were NOT man enough to shake MY hand after the game in the LOBBY when I stood toe to toe with them and asked? OR, ask them why they pulled their hand away, tucked their chin on their chest and skirted away like a couple of scared kids when another Parent caught one of their hands just long enough to say "Thank You for NOT Coaching my kid!". You sit and spout off criticism of previous posts of which you claim they don't know the facts when YOU also don't know the facts!

IF, these two are stand up guys, prove it. EVERYONE has a bad day, but I would be interested in WHAT THE HECK they were thinking. Tearse would be interested in knowing what they were thinking. I believe everyone would be interested in an explanation!

bluemind · Post by **bluemind** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:16 am

I can't speak for them but i can provide a direction for your angst..

Give them a call rather than savage them on the blog...

I suspect that you would hope for the same given the situation..

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:02 am

Like most of the rest of us, I don't know what the coaches did or didn't do; however, the parents need to accept a little responsibility for a couple things.

Of course the kids should be having fun; if he's not having fun, quit making him play hockey. Summer hockey is for kids that want to play (or for parents that want to find out if their kids want to play), they have fun experiencing improvement aquiring new skills and mastering old ones - along the way they also make friends, hang out in hotels, etc. If you're only looking for a fun, social activity for your kid, I'm sure the parks & rec dept has sandbox day where they make sure everyone has fun.

What happens at MM isn't a secret. If you didn't know what you were getting when you signed up, then shame on you. This is the third year the 98s have been playing - the wide-eyes should have had plenty of time to find a team with a coach that breaks out his guitar and sings kumbaya in the locker room. Rip on Bernie if you like, but the names of 12 and 13 year old kids get bantered about on this forum - kids you recognize, kids that are good, kids who have parents and grandparents that know what they're doing, kids that have been with Bernie for the last 5-6 years.

It'll be interesting to see what the 98 Duece kids get going forward. A mob has seen power in numbers, it has achieved "success" in getting its way; I can't imagine the guy that takes the team, but I do imagine his neck will be sore from looking over his shoulder all the time. Running a practice or managing a game based on what parents think is never a good idea. Lucia says his dream job would be coaching an orphanage; it's not because of the players, the refs, not the other team or their coaches...

cooper26 · Post by **cooper26** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:32 am

I wasn't there. I don't know them and I don't care, except to say:
Sure we all appreciate the incredible amounts of time these people put in!
However, volunteerism is not a license to be an idiot or even do everything your own way. The jobs come with responsibilities - to all the kids, their parents, and the game itself. If you don't like that or can't live up to it, you shouldn't be volunteering. Or you should be removed.
There are limits to acceptable behavior and this forum is a perfect place to discuss them.

Road Rage · Post by **Road Rage** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:39 am

So parents expect you to be a role model, shake hands with the opposing team and not punish your players by humiliating them, that's your job as the coach. Zero tolerance for failing to be a decent human being and a role model. Ask Bobby Knight what Indiana did to him when he behaved like a jerk. If you lack judgment, no apology will make up for the fact that you lack good judgment. Besides, children need to be taught that there are consequences for being the poster boy for bad behavior.

So you spend more time than the parents at the arena, good for you. Your kid also plays for free.

I pity your wife, your children, your friends, your co-workers and anyone who has the unfortunate luck to have to coach your kid(s). They had better never have a lapse in judgment -- like your perfect self.

Who cares about Bobby Knight. He got another job, didn't he. Just like Michael Vick will.

And even if the coach gets to have his kid skate for free -- wow. His actual hourly rate would probably come out to something between minimum wage and poverty. Boy do they come out ahead on that deal.

sorno82 · Post by **sorno82** » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:44 am

Since the topic is MM is coming apart-what does that mean?

They have a bunch of jerk coaches (nothing new).

Or are large numbers of kids leaving?

HighSchoolHockeyForums.com

MN Made Machine coming apart (as predicted)?

Burn out

Mn Made coach

Biblical proportions

Re: Biblical proportions

Re: Biblical proportions

Stand up and give them a call