Wayzata Varsity

[toomanystitches]

I've been hearing talk that Wayzata should be pretty good this year. Four players made the Elite League. Coaching seems to be a big question mark.

Any thoughts or insights?

[bananastick]

Whose the 4th player in addition to Jone, Barnes and Holm? Whelan is listed as an alternate. Goaltending is the big question mark along with defense. They lost 4 senior defensemen last year and no JV player could jump into the varsity line up last year.

[WayOutWest]

I've been hearing talk that Wayzata should be pretty good this year. Four players made the Elite League. Coaching seems to be a big question mark.

Any thoughts or insights?

Sub .500 record, at best.
And coaching will be a very big issue, until a change is made.
Undoubtedly another year of promising talent..............wasted.

[breakout]

I've been hearing talk that Wayzata should be pretty good this year. Four players made the Elite League. Coaching seems to be a big question mark.

Any thoughts or insights?

Sub .500 record, at best.
And coaching will be a very big issue, until a change is made.
Undoubtedly another year of promising talent..............wasted.

If the coaching is that bad why doesn't the AD make a change? I am guessing the AD is more than just a football person.

Wayzata loses it's share of players to privates, etc. But, so do other schools that have successful hockey programs. Is that the coaches fault? Or, parents pushing decisions regarding their kids future?

I heard people in the Roseau community questioning Scott Oliver's coaching abilities after Roseau won the State Championship a couple of years ago. Apparently, you can't please everybody.

With the talent that Wayzata has spawn with it's numbers they shouldn't need great coaching to do well. One person's opinion.

[WayOutWest]

If the coaching is that bad why doesn't the AD make a change? I am guessing the AD is more than just a football person.

Wayzata loses it's share of players to privates, etc. But, so do other schools that have successful hockey programs. Is that the coaches fault? Or, parents pushing decisions regarding their kids future?

With the talent that Wayzata has spawn with it's numbers they shouldn't need great coaching to do well. One person's opinion.

I believe the AD and the coach are pals.
Wayzata excels in hockey in every other level.
They have had one good year at the high school level. The dropoff cannot be explained by departures alone.
Clearly, something is happening (or not happening) at the high school level to create the tailspin.

High school programs don't need great coaching to excel? Huh?
Can you name one perennially successful high school hockey program that doesn't have solid coaching?
Can you name a single successful high school program that has horrible coaching?

[Goldy23]

If the coaching is that bad why doesn't the AD make a change? I am guessing the AD is more than just a football person.

Wayzata loses it's share of players to privates, etc. But, so do other schools that have successful hockey programs. Is that the coaches fault? Or, parents pushing decisions regarding their kids future?

With the talent that Wayzata has spawn with it's numbers they shouldn't need great coaching to do well. One person's opinion.

I believe the AD and the coach are pals.
Wayzata excels in hockey in every other level.
They have had one good year at the high school level. The dropoff cannot be explained by departures alone.
Clearly, something is happening (or not happening) at the high school level to create the tailspin.

High school programs don't need great coaching to excel? Huh?
Can you name one perennially successful high school hockey program that doesn't have solid coaching?
Can you name a single successful high school program that has horrible coaching?

Great points! You can't have an elite program without a great coach. You can win occasionally with talent alone but need the coaching leadership to put together and execute an elite program. You can probably make similar points about Edina hockey as well. While Giles has been able to get the team to State lately he hasn't been able to get the same results that the kids acheived as Pee Wee's and Bantams, much like Davis @ Wayzata.

[Doglover]

Good analogy.

[breakout]

If the coaching is that bad why doesn't the AD make a change? I am guessing the AD is more than just a football person.

Wayzata loses it's share of players to privates, etc. But, so do other schools that have successful hockey programs. Is that the coaches fault? Or, parents pushing decisions regarding their kids future?

With the talent that Wayzata has spawn with it's numbers they shouldn't need great coaching to do well. One person's opinion.

I believe the AD and the coach are pals.
Wayzata excels in hockey in every other level.
They have had one good year at the high school level. The dropoff cannot be explained by departures alone.
Clearly, something is happening (or not happening) at the high school level to create the tailspin.

High school programs don't need great coaching to excel? Huh?
Can you name one perennially successful high school hockey program that doesn't have solid coaching?
Can you name a single successful high school program that has horrible coaching?

You believe the coach and AD are pals? But, you don't know for sure. Good job backing up your claim. I am guessing you are not an attorney from Wayzata.

Who says Wayzata's coaching is horrible? A few malcontent parents? What are your hockey credentials to back up that assertion? Have you been active in the Wayzata hockey community?

[bananastick]

If the coaching is that bad why doesn't the AD make a change? I am guessing the AD is more than just a football person.

Wayzata loses it's share of players to privates, etc. But, so do other schools that have successful hockey programs. Is that the coaches fault? Or, parents pushing decisions regarding their kids future?

With the talent that Wayzata has spawn with it's numbers they shouldn't need great coaching to do well. One person's opinion.

I believe the AD and the coach are pals.
Wayzata excels in hockey in every other level.
They have had one good year at the high school level. The dropoff cannot be explained by departures alone.
Clearly, something is happening (or not happening) at the high school level to create the tailspin.

High school programs don't need great coaching to excel? Huh?
Can you name one perennially successful high school hockey program that doesn't have solid coaching?
Can you name a single successful high school program that has horrible coaching?

You believe the coach and AD are pals? But, you don't know for sure. Good job backing up your claim. I am guessing you are not an attorney from Wayzata.

Who says Wayzata's coaching is horrible? A few malcontent parents? What are your hockey credentials to back up that assertion? Have you been active in the Wayzata hockey community?

Davis and the AD went to college together and I believe both were at Buffallo at the same time. The AD hired Davis at Wayzata. Is the coaching terrible, no it isn't, but it certainly is marginal at best. I have been in the Wayzata community but that doesn't make me an expert. I speak only from being around the coaches for years and from what my son has told me.

[breakout]

If the coaching is that bad why doesn't the AD make a change? I am guessing the AD is more than just a football person.

Wayzata loses it's share of players to privates, etc. But, so do other schools that have successful hockey programs. Is that the coaches fault? Or, parents pushing decisions regarding their kids future?

With the talent that Wayzata has spawn with it's numbers they shouldn't need great coaching to do well. One person's opinion.

I believe the AD and the coach are pals.
Wayzata excels in hockey in every other level.
They have had one good year at the high school level. The dropoff cannot be explained by departures alone.
Clearly, something is happening (or not happening) at the high school level to create the tailspin.

High school programs don't need great coaching to excel? Huh?
Can you name one perennially successful high school hockey program that doesn't have solid coaching?
Can you name a single successful high school program that has horrible coaching?

Great points! You can't have an elite program without a great coach. You can win occasionally with talent alone but need the coaching leadership to put together and execute an elite program. You can probably make similar points about Edina hockey as well. While Giles has been able to get the team to State lately he hasn't been able to get the same results that the kids acheived as Pee Wee's and Bantams, much like Davis @ Wayzata.

Isn't it weird how it's always the coaching for some people. Amazing how overzealous, possibly misguided parents are seldom talked about. How about the team just couldn't come together in a one and done play-off environment? Or, God forbid the other team was better that day.

Giles a former NHLr and Carl Davis, known as Mr. Hustle in high school and college are not good coaches yet coach two solid high school programs. The ADs must be idiots (sarcasm).

http://www.wayzatahockeyclinics.com/CDavis.htm

[Papa Bergundy]

Every year, same song and dance. I really didn't want to weigh in on this topic since obviously being from Wayzata gives me a biased view. So I'll make this short and sweet. If you don't like Carl, either A) Say it to his face, not hiding behind the internet. B) Talk to the AD (Jamie Sherwood) about getting him fired or C) Start a petition with the other parents in the program.

As you may have noticed, creating a topic that turns in to free shots at Carl via internet is not an option. I'm willing to bet 90% of the people that do bash him on this site never even met the guy, let alone were coached by him, so please, give it a rest people.

[GOPHERFAN119]

Every year, same song and dance. I really didn't want to weigh in on this topic since obviously being from Wayzata gives me a biased view. So I'll make this short and sweet. If you don't like Carl, either A) Say it to his face, not hiding behind the internet. B) Talk to the AD (Jamie Sherwood) about getting him fired or C) Start a petition with the other parents in the program.

As you may have noticed, creating a topic that turns in to free shots at Carl via internet is not an option. I'm willing to bet 90% of the people that do bash him on this site never even met the guy, let alone were coached by him, so please, give it a rest people.

Each of us defines success in many different ways and have differing opinions. Some examples are:

Is it Classic Lakes Titles ?
Is it Section Championships ?
Is it State Tourney Appearances ?
Is it beating Mtka and Edina so many times in a given year ?
Is it a .500 season ?
Is it making sure the kids have a great time

As a resident in the district, 40+ years, a WHS grad, and avid follower of WHS sports, I have seen greater success with other sports program at the HS. Wayzata Football, Wayzata Boys Soccer, Wayzata Girls Soccer, Wayzata Boys Cross Country and even Boys Golf come to mind.

All the teams above play great competition. They play against the best of the best in all sports. All the above teams face stiff competition in the regionals too and even in the State Tournament.

Classic Lake titles are nice, however, taking your team to the next level, winning section titles and making a State Tourney appearance are far greater accomplishments in my mind.

It is in my mind, the Boys Hockey program is not on par with the above mentioned programs in winning sections and advancing in the state tourneys.

[WayOutWest]

Every year, same song and dance. I really didn't want to weigh in on this topic since obviously being from Wayzata gives me a biased view. So I'll make this short and sweet. If you don't like Carl, either A) Say it to his face, not hiding behind the internet. B) Talk to the AD (Jamie Sherwood) about getting him fired or C) Start a petition with the other parents in the program.

As you may have noticed, creating a topic that turns in to free shots at Carl via internet is not an option. I'm willing to bet 90% of the people that do bash him on this site never even met the guy, let alone were coached by him, so please, give it a rest people.

Papa - You DO understand what a forum is all about, right?
You also understand that taking a job where you are a public figure, particularly one that is funded by the public, opens you up to fair public criticism, right?
Further, you do understand that there is a difference between "not liking someone" and "not giving the job they have done glowing reviews", right?

Nothing that was said was unfair. The WHS Hockey program record, under the current coach, is irrefutable.

My only goal, here, was to chime in on the subject. I have no desire nor intent to "talk to the coach, or the AD, or start a "petition"." Frankly, sir, I don't give a darn if the team continues to struggle. Other's might want something actually done, but your suggestions would not be fruitful.

[GOPHERFAN119]

To add more discussion to this public forum -

2 out of the last 3 years, I believe the Wayzata Bantam A Team has won the State Championship. I apologize if I am wrong here. I am going on memory here. When they did not win, I believe they came in 3rd place.

Over the last few years, the Bantam B Blue 1 team has done exceptionally well too. I believe 2 State Tourney second place finishes.

These are truly outstanding accomplishments by the coaching staffs and their players. A true credit to the Wayzata Youth Hockey Association.

These youth coaching staffs have found a way to shape and mold the talent on their teams and prepared them for the next level (districts, regionals, and state tourneys). The facts are the facts.

f you are an avid follower of WHS sports and compare WHS Boys hockey performance in sectional play vs its peers (meaning other sports) at WHS, the records will clearly indicate, other teams at WHS have outperformed the WHS Hockey Team in sectional play, making state Tourney appearances, and even winning State Championships.

We have the talent pool. We have depth and breadth in the youth system.

For some reason, the HS coaching staff has not found the same consistency and results as the Wayzata youth hockey system and some of the other sports at WHS (Wayzata Football, Wayzata Boys Soccer, Wayzata Girls Soccer, Wayzata Boys Cross Country and even Boys Golf). I apologized if I missed a few.

[east hockey]

If you substitute "Eden Prairie" for "Wayzata", this topic resembles other topics devoted to flaying Lee Smith in the past few years. Funny how winning a State Championship shut those people up. But until that happened, it was the same type of "well, the high school team doesn't match the success of the youth teams" rant.

Maybe there's more to this situation than people choose to believe.

Lee

[WayOutWest]

Maybe there's more to this situation than people choose to believe.

Lee

Feel free to elaborate.

[karl(east)]

Out of curiosity, why do people consider the Wayzata coaching "bad"?

Is it for game management reasons? Teaching ability? Ability to handle the players' personalities? Ability to handle parents? Controversial choices/actions?

Or are people simply seizing upon an inability to live up to their expectations and immediately concluding that it must be the fault of the coaching?

[WayOutWest]

Out of curiosity, why do people consider the Wayzata coaching "bad"?

Is it for game management reasons? Teaching ability? Ability to handle the players' personalities? Ability to handle parents? Controversial choices/actions?

Or are people simply seizing upon an inability to live up to their expectations and immediately concluding that it must be the fault of the coaching?

YES!!!!!

[Sioux Fan]

How many of these top bantam kids go to private High Schools..???

[Toomuchtoosoon]

How many of these top bantam kids go to private High Schools..???

Many (not all) of the top bantams that leave choose private because of the coaching. I know there was some heavy debates in those families. In the end, some stayed and some left. Those debates were primarily focussed on coaching, not quality of school since Wayzata is a great school.

Actually, EP won it this year even with private school, USHL, and NTDP defections. It will be interesting to see if they can repeat or at least compete again for the championship.

[toomanystitches]

Thank you for your input and thoughts.

I was intrigued by the comments regarding players who play for private schools instead of playing for the Wayzata HS team. I made a few phone calls to find out what I could. In 99% of the cases where a player played Bantam A hockey, they were already enrolled in a private school or it was clearly understood that the player would be attending a high school other than Wayzata. Of a bigger concern than the high school coaching was why the Wayzata Youth Association continues to place players on an A team when they will never play for the high school. I heard estimates of 25% of the A players attending private schools.

Sounds like a tough situation. Good luck Wayzata!

[WayOutWest]

I heard estimates of 25% of the A players attending private schools.

Overstated.
And, this is not a bigger problem than any other program faces.
It's the coaching.

[backchecker7]

How many of these top bantam kids go to private High Schools..???

I never saw their bantam team play, so I do not know who was on it. But, I understand that a couple of their top scorers attended private schools.

[March3333Madness]

The talent in the youth program is not that diluted because kids attend private schools when they reach high school age. It's inevitable that programs with large numbers of players will have players that attend private school. Get over it. It likely happens to smaller communities/programs as well. Every time a player leaves to attend private school, folks raise their hand and say 'that's a HUGE reason' that Wayzata isn't more successful. That's a bunch a crap. I don't know the coach or his relationship with the AD and it really doesn't matter to me. This program is not meeting expectations when it comes to winning at the high school level. Now, if winning isn't a big deal, everyone should let this issue die. If it's important, then figure out the solution and make it happen.

From what I've been able to gather, this issue also bridges across to the girls program as well.

[fivehole628]

Whose the 4th player in addition to Jone, Barnes and Holm? Whelan is listed as an alternate. Goaltending is the big question mark along with defense. They lost 4 senior defensemen last year and no JV player could jump into the varsity line up last year.

I believe Walsh was the 4th. Might be wrong though... not positive