Edina PeeWee A Shenanigans (?)

[O-townClown]

Nice try on the ad hominem arguments as well O-town, but you'll have to do better than that.

==

I don't have to do better than anything. I'm not driving for change and I'm not upset.

Seventeen kids will make the Pee Wee A team in Edina. In an attempt to be inclusive of everyone that has a chance to make it there were possibly 30-40 kids on the ice during some fall session. And the problem is that there weren't 50, 60, or even 125....

Okay, I guess one alternative is to not get kids out to skate. The rink doesn't sell the ice or sells it to someone else, the kids don't get the exercise, and those looking to get a jump would hit the ice at Velocity, strap on rollerblades, or take in a McBain session or two.

File this one under "Can't Win".

You'll see soon enough if you are right about the Colorado tournament. Not sure how you'd send a team during tryouts. If it is another tournament maybe it isn't in early October.

I know a guy that once coached A travel in one of the largest associations. He could handle the complaints for a while, but eventually it wore on him and he said it just wasn't worth it.

Please return to the board (it looks like your only posts ever are on this thread you started) and let us know the response from Minnesota Hockey. We deserve that.

[council member retired]

[quote="EdinaRumors"][quote="iwearmysunglassesatnight"]This is the cr(&&y part about coaching. You can't do anything w/out someone putting you under a microscope. [/quote]

I coached hockey in Minnesota for 30 years. .[/quote]

Nice, good to have a few greybeards with kids at 1st year peewee. It makes us grandparents fit in better.

[EdinaRumors]

Nice try on the ad hominem arguments as well O-town, but you'll have to do better than that.

==

I don't have to do better than anything. I'm not driving for change and I'm not upset.

Really?

The bigger issue, and one that has been completely unspoken, is whether intense competition for 11 and 12 year olds to make a team is healthy or not. Changes to the system aren't coming and what Minnesota Hockey does hardly quashes the pressure.

Doesn't sound like the words of a man who's not driving for change ... maybe just trying to change the subject ...

Whatever ...

[EdinaRumors]

This is the cr(&&y part about coaching. You can't do anything w/out someone putting you under a microscope.

I coached hockey in Minnesota for 30 years. .

Nice, good to have a few greybeards with kids at 1st year peewee. It makes us grandparents fit in better.

LOL Grandkids. I wish I had that kind of energy.

[SECoach]

I coached hockey in Minnesota for 30 years. .

Nice, good to have a few greybeards with kids at 1st year peewee. It makes us grandparents fit in better.

LOL Grandkids. I wish I had that kind of energy.

What we need is more grandparents that used to have a good perspective on the sport and the game but lose it when their focus moves from many players to one or two. This is just sad.

[EdinaRumors]

What we need is more grandparents that used to have a good perspective on the sport and the game but lose it when their focus moves from many players to one or two. :D This is just sad.

Issues like ethics, transparency and respect for process are issues which affect ALL kids, not just one or two. Those values were cornerstones of our association(s). Apparently, those values are shifting. That's sad.

[EdinaRumors]

I know a guy that once coached A travel in one of the largest associations. He could handle the complaints for a while, but eventually it wore on him and he said it just wasn't worth it.

I knew a coach that used to scream profanities at his youth players when they lost. Parents complained. He could handle the complaints for a while, but eventually it wore on him and he said it just wasn't worth it and he quit.

Sometimes a guy needs to quit. Sometimes people need to complain to get him to quit. It's not neccesarily a bad thing.

If guys are running ad hoc tryouts contrary to posted EHA schedule, maybe people should complain, and maybe those guys should quit.

[puckfan]

Wow this is pretty funny stuff to read, keep digging EdinaRumors don't stop till you get the answer you want and deserve

And people think their kids don't get asked because their not good enough.................

[UMD]

EdinaRumors,

I am not posting this in defense of the Edina Hockey Association… last I checked, they don’t need my defense. I just feel the need to respond because what you are speaking of happens just about everywhere… and it’s not the end of the world, nor the end of your grandson’s hockey career; and it certainly doesn’t even mean he can’t make the PeeWee A team this season.

My son is in a very similar situation as your grandson… In my humble opinion, one of the top players on our Squirt A team last year; a bubble PeeWee A this year; not politically aligned with the PeeWee A coaching staff; wasn’t invited (in fact was denied entry) to skate in a summer clinic with the other prospective PeeWee A kids and coach (no, he does not play hockey for the Edina Association). So I decided to take matters into my own hands. Knowing that the PeeWee A coaching staff is not going to select my son for the A team if all things are equal between him and another politically aligned player, I decided to send him to other non-association skating opportunities late in summer (after he was denied entry to skate locally) so that he could get the chance to improve enough that all things would NOT be equal between him and some other politically aligned players when tryouts roll around. My belief is that when all is said and done, the A coach will want the very best players on his team so it would be tough to deny my son a spot if he displays better ability. And I would say history, atleast within our association, has proven this theory to be true. I can’t say for sure how Edina rolls, but it seems to me if Bellows’ kid wasn’t selected a few years ago to be on an Edina Squirt A team, everything must be on the up-and-up there, too… from an outsider looking in, I have a hard time believing anyone can be better aligned politically than Bellows.

Lastly, I can’t help but wonder if you and your poodle would be raising such a fuss over this had your grandson been included in this pre-tryout skate. If the answer is no, then I am not sure you are any better than the people of whom you are lodging the complaint. If the answer is yes, then I will desperately try to believe you.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

I know a guy that once coached A travel in one of the largest associations. He could handle the complaints for a while, but eventually it wore on him and he said it just wasn't worth it.

I knew a coach that used to scream profanities at his youth players when they lost. Parents complained. He could handle the complaints for a while, but eventually it wore on him and he said it just wasn't worth it and he quit.

Sometimes a guy needs to quit. Sometimes people need to complain to get him to quit. It's not neccesarily a bad thing.

If guys are running ad hoc tryouts contrary to posted EHA schedule, maybe people should complain, and maybe those guys should quit.

Just because u call it an adhoc tryout doesn't make it one. Correct me if I'm wrong but they still have tryouts correct ? Perhaps these people are just trying to provide way for their children to better themselves. Sign of the times - no child left behind and everything must must be equal, not fair but equal. Ribbons for everyone ... heaven forbid someone should strive to be better.

You say you have been coaching for 30 years. In those 30 years have you every taken your kids and some of his friends out to play and perhaps teach them a little ? Did you include everyone in his age group ? I have, maybe I'm some horrible person ... or maybe I'm just someone who enjoys spending time with my kids, his friends and a game we love.

[BlackandRedAttack]

We moved out of Edina, but have many friends there. This pre-tryout skate happens at almost every level, including girls. Coaches should be allowed to take whoever they want. They're the ones putting in the time, they're the ones whose reputations are on the line, whether they win or lose. They should be able to take the kids they want.

The pre-skates are unpopular with those not invited, and the odds of being selected to your respective A teams are infitessimal if you aren't invited. Coaches know who the kids are. If they don't know about your kid, it might just be that your kid isn't as good. But the coaches have every right to do them and invite who they want. Ask the parents whose kids are at the top of the A level, and ask them if they think these skates are a good idea. They do.

If the coach is worth his salt, he knows every kid at his level, and every kid coming into his level.

But while the problem with this process exists at Pee Wee and Bantam, the real problem is with Girls. You miss the A team in boys, there's a B1 team which is probably pretty good. You miss the A team in girls and you might as well quit if you're the parent of a second-year. The difference is vast. Players who just miss A play against lesser competition, B coaches coach to the bottom of their roster, and it's pretty negative.

If your kid is skating with the A coach right now, congrats. If he/she isn't, don't get your expectations up.

Our new association has these skates, it's not just Edina.

[pebbles]

In EdinaRumors' defense, there is at least one very large association which has won state titles recently that doesn't pre-select the pre-skate. They offer a clinic that anyone can sign up for (and pay for) that does essentially the same thing as this private pre-skate. The kids who show up are mostly the bubble kids and kids who aren't doing any other skating right now and need a little tune-up. It's 6 sessions, three per week, before try-outs. Yes, kids do get looked at early if they want, but it's open to everyone, not just the pre-selected. And I believe it is the A coaches who run it. Isn't this what the Maple Grove Bantam coach was doing?

[Lowstickside]

With 100-150 kids trying out and one "A" team being filled, this is a tough job for any coach. Considering they are now at the "A" PW level, most of these kids have been in the association for 5-7 years. Everyone knows who they are and what they can/can't do, what the parents are like ect...

This pre-tryout clinic is what it is. Lots of associations have them, and they also will scrimmage each other. If your player did not get invited, then find fall skating opportunities elsewhere (someone very close has some decent ones), and let it rip at the tryouts. Encourage your player to have fun and try their best, but know that the "A" team is more than likely not in their future this year.

A negative side to the pre-tryout "clinic" for those lucky to be invited; instead of the try-outs lasting a week, they now last 6 weeks! Can you imagine the pressure on the first year invitees/bubbles who want to impress and make the "A" team, or the returning B1 players for that matter. Brutal! While they are participating in fall soccer/football or whatever, they now have to be on their game for a try-out that never ends. We had a family friend whose player was so exhausted by the time try-outs actually got there that they missed some of the try-out due to illness. Luckily he had made the team long before those stupid try-outs happened.

[play4fun]

Luckily he had made the team long before those stupid try-outs happened.

LOL! Just enough gas to start the flames roaring higher again. Very nice.

I do have a question for those who think the PWA teams are essentially known before tryouts (and I'm not disagreeing). What do you do if you've recently moved/are moving to a new association and those in the "know" aren't familiar with your kids(s)?

Just show up at tryouts and hope for the best? Accept that B1 is the likely outcome and wait for the association to get to know your kid and become part of the "known" quantity by the time they get to Bantams? Give the coaches a heads up that a couple of kids are moving to town? Thoughts?

[InigoMontoya]

Lowstickside wrote:
Luckily he had made the team long before those stupid try-outs happened.


LOL! Just enough gas to start the flames roaring higher again. Very nice.

I like that, as well. If YOU don't get invited, don't worry about it, however, the kids that suck on ice during tryouts will make the team not your kid because they were invited - but again, if YOU don't get invited, don't worry about it.

[BlackandRedAttack]

I do have a question for those who think the PWA teams are essentially known before tryouts (and I'm not disagreeing). What do you do if you've recently moved/are moving to a new association and those in the "know" aren't familiar with your kids(s)?

I sought out the A coaches in our new association and told them about my son and two daughters

My older daughter still played B the next year, and scored about 40 goals - made the A team the following year. My son was more fortunate. Made the A team right away. My third kid could care less at this point - I might have to accept the fact that she's a rebel and prefers basketball.

[mnhockey36299]

In EdinaRumors' defense, there is at least one very large association which has won state titles recently that doesn't pre-select the pre-skate. They offer a clinic that anyone can sign up for (and pay for) that does essentially the same thing as this private pre-skate. The kids who show up are mostly the bubble kids and kids who aren't doing any other skating right now and need a little tune-up. It's 6 sessions, three per week, before try-outs. Yes, kids do get looked at early if they want, but it's open to everyone, not just the pre-selected. And I believe it is the A coaches who run it. Isn't this what the Maple Grove Bantam coach was doing?

Pebbles, if your referring to EP, they do have open clinics. But the PeeWee A and the Bantam A coaches also ran there own clinics.

[ThePuckStopsHere]

It's not humanly possible to invite all Edina Pee Wee's to this pre -skate clinic, C'mon people there is know way to fit all those INFLATED EGO'S in one lobby!

[pebbles]

In EdinaRumors' defense, there is at least one very large association which has won state titles recently that doesn't pre-select the pre-skate. They offer a clinic that anyone can sign up for (and pay for) that does essentially the same thing as this private pre-skate. The kids who show up are mostly the bubble kids and kids who aren't doing any other skating right now and need a little tune-up. It's 6 sessions, three per week, before try-outs. Yes, kids do get looked at early if they want, but it's open to everyone, not just the pre-selected. And I believe it is the A coaches who run it. Isn't this what the Maple Grove Bantam coach was doing?

Pebbles, if your referring to EP, they do have open clinics. But the PeeWee A and the Bantam A coaches also ran there own clinics.

I was actually referring to Wayzata and, I think, Maple Grove. I believe that some of the Armstrong kids who open-enroll at Wayzata and now will be playing hockey there under the new rules are participating in the clinics for the very reason of getting noticed.

On a separate note, Armstrong may be severly hurt by the new rule due to open-enrollees in other districts and some top players who attend BSM.

[greybeard58]

Many years ago a good friend of mine became the PWA Coach with a metro association. At the end of tryouts he presented his choices for his picks, and the ones in the know were livid. He had picked a played who had been labeled a B2 skater because they did not like how he skated around the cones, the coaches reply was have you watched him in the corners and in front of the net,he can finish. Needless to say he caught grief for the first part of the season. The player ended making the A level teams and also helped lead his HS Team to a state championship. He got his D1 ride and eventually was drafted and played in the NHL. If you want to know the name pm me.

No matter what a coach will do before and after the try outs the perception by some will be that there were favors called in. Most every coach wants the best players he can get unfortunately his definition of best will differ from the parents who children he did not pick.

[manchild]

What is a Shenanigans (?)

[elliott70]

What is a Shenanigans (?)

Shenanigan = any male Irishman, someone who likes to create problems, anything that goes against the norm or rules, especially in Ireland.

[Eastsider]

It appears that ER has given up his quest. Perhaps his "grandson" got an invite after all.

[thehockeyczar]

I heard the team already had its first practice last Thursday at Breamar. To keep under the radar its advertised as a Fall Pee Wee Pre -Tryout Skate but we all know thats just a front.

Any idea who ran the skate? What adults were on the ice? Which kids were on the ice?

Bantam A and PeeWee A coachs on the ice.

96 Machine, Deuce and Stealth Edina players
97 Machine, Deuce, Blades, Synergy and Stealth Edina players

Where kids invited to the Pre-skate? Yes
Is the team picked? No! Tryouts have not been held.
Do the coaches, parents and players know who are the top 20 players? Yes, and that can be said in any Association
Is there any competition in this tryout? Yes, spots 11-15 are up for grabs, probably 10-12 really good players competing for those spots. Again same in any association.
Edina A teams are the toughest teams to make due to the number of players. Edina should have 2 PeeWee "A" teams. Last year their PeeWee B1 Teams were in the top 5 all year. It will be the same again this year.

Estimated PeeWee Teams in D6

Edina 9-11
EP 7-8
Burnsville 5
PL 4-5
Shakopee 3
AV 4
Eastview 4-5
Minnetonka 6
Waconia 4
Bloom Kenn 3
Bloom Jeff 4-5
Chaska 5-6

Edina will have almost twice the number of teams over most of the other Associations in D6.

EdinaRumors,

Your beef should not be "I heard the team was picked" we hear that cry every year here. Your beef should be "Why are we not having 2 A teams to give more kids a chance to compete at the PeeWee A level in D6" In reality, if you were not invited to the pre-skate you skater is probably outside of the top 22 players.

Two equal PeeWee A teams would be great for player development, but in association hockey the goal is to win the state championship. Therefore, it will never happen in Edina. Edina has some serious 2nd year PeeWee talent and will only take one to three 1st years at best. Most in the "know" can guess 90% of the team, but there are always a couple of surprises. The Edina PeeWee and Bantam A and B1 teams will be very competitive this year. Good luck to all trying out and have fun!

[C-dad]

Just a note on numbers. As of the last day of registrations (may have been a few more walk-ins after this) there were 157 skaters and about 20 goalies signed up for peewees in Edina. They expect to field 11 teams and only one A team. I'm not sure how the others will break down, but I'd guess 3 B1, 3 B2, 4 C.

I agree that the board should field two balanced A teams for this group. They probably wouldn't win state, but more kids would skate against top competition. The A1, A2 experiment in squirts last year was a disaster and won't be repeated.