AAA at U12 and U14

Night Train · Post by **Night Train** » Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:42 am

U12 International Cup

1st Jr. Gophers
2nd WI Jr. Badgers
3rd MN IceCats

Alpha · Post by **Alpha** » Fri Aug 21, 2009 1:23 pm

Ok, after reading this, I'm a little confused.

My daughter is a first year u-10 (may 2000 birth). She played u-8 for 2 years, and did a few camps this summer. She has asked if she can do a AAA team next summer - I'm fine with it, but having problems finding a team for her to try out at. Do most of the u-12 programs listed in this thread also have u-10 programs? It appears that there are a few such teams given the International Cup u10 link. If the general answer is yes, then I'll just search the links provided.

I appreciate any advice in advance.

redarmydad · Post by **redarmydad** » Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:55 pm

If you are new to AAA please be real about your child's ability. All I heard this year was how watered down the AAA teams and leagues have become as a result of independent teams and Development Leagues. I wish there were development leagues when my daughter was just coming into it. I would have saved a ton of money. I believe in the development programs. They definitely serve a purpose and help younger girls develop and prepare them for the upper level of play through conditioning. They also get opportunities to play in tournaments with there development team. Just thinking. I have found them very useful! So what I am saying is don't go throwing her into a AAA team without at least looking into developmental leagues. To name a few. OS with Winny Brodt, Minnesota Legacy, Skate to Excellence, Minnesota Edge. All solid in fundamentals and skill building along with game theory and game play. I truly believe they are very beneficial for younger kids.

Alpha · Post by **Alpha** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:38 pm

Thank you RedArmyDad, I appreciate your input!

CenRedFan · Post by **CenRedFan** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:42 am

redarmydad wrote:If you are new to AAA please be real about your child's ability. All I heard this year was how watered down the AAA teams and leagues have become as a result of independent teams and Development Leagues. I wish there were development leagues when my daughter was just coming into it. I would have saved a ton of money. I believe in the development programs. They definitely serve a purpose and help younger girls develop and prepare them for the upper level of play through conditioning. They also get opportunities to play in tournaments with there development team. Just thinking. I have found them very useful! So what I am saying is don't go throwing her into a AAA team without at least looking into developmental leagues. To name a few. OS with Winny Brodt, Minnesota Legacy, Skate to Excellence, Minnesota Edge. All solid in fundamentals and skill building along with game theory and game play. I truly believe they are very beneficial for younger kids.

The Legacy? Are you freaking kidding me????? The teams they put together could barely win a game!!!!

Passthefoil · Post by **Passthefoil** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:35 am

RedARMY - Come on, you obviously have worked with all the groups mentioned or your daughter played with them at one time or another OR you want you daughter to play with them next season: HOPEFULLY?

It is a cautious tale of read, talk, learn about programs first before spending the CASH! Ask the coordinator/director of the program for 3-5 names of families that played last year and see what the response is. Best option (but to late maybe) maybe to go to the games identify who the parents from that program are and listen or talk to them about the program AWAY from the kids.

Keep in mind, most of these programs have popped up because they got cut from existing program; they thought they could do it better scenarios, which is fine for them, but please do your homework and determine the best fit for your child.

IMO - #1 - who is teaching the kids? #2 - do they have the ability to teach that specific age group #3 - do the coaches have the hockey knowledge - #4 ice hours - maximize the hours if you can - repitition and correction by the coaches is key (see #1-2 &3)

lets hear from those other opinions, I do know that that is what this thread is about; opinions.

Passthefoil · Post by **Passthefoil** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 10:37 am

CenRed - sounds like you got bit by lack of research. Sucks to be you, good luck next time around.

If you can, elaborate, we would love to hear another side of the Legacy program as we have the RedArmy version already.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:25 pm

Are you freaking kidding me????? The teams they put together could barely win a game!!!!

CenRedFan's statement could apply to other teams Dad mentioned - not sure why Red is picking on the Legacy only. Development teams may or may not appeal to the girls who are already "elite" skaters. Who cares ... so what? I do advocate doing as much research as possible but unfortunately talking to last year's parents is still no guarantee for next year. Both coaches and programs change between tryouts and April. I'm not really concerned whether or not the team wins all the time but I am interested in a program where the coaches have some level of committment ... where there is consistent skill development from team to team (and between the boys and girls teams). I can put the money into horse camp or hockey. My daughter would rather play hockey and summer hockey gives the opportunity to focus where she specifically needs development.

D10RoXyourSoX · Post by **D10RoXyourSoX** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:10 pm

Pass, you are definitely a person who says whats on his/her mind. Not bad advice but Buttercup challeneged you with.....not much. I think your ideas are what I said, "your" ideas, each family is different.

Butter you must not have read CenRed post.... I think it was pretty clear about how he/she felt about the Legacy program. Nothing was said about any other program but LEGACY in the last post.

Please Butter, come back with something a little more concrete than "my daughter wants". We all know it is what you want (and other parents too)and what you/they settled on. Nice choice for you and your child, it sounds as though your Legacy experience was satisifactory. Congrats!

GO BLUE!

Pens4 · Post by **Pens4** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:38 pm

Alpha wrote:Ok, after reading this, I'm a little confused.

Alpha,

After reading the last few posts I'm sure you have a pretty good feeling for what may be laying in wait in the AAA hockey world.

"Choose wisely grasshopper".... becasue not only will your daughter be playing in that environment but you'll be standing next to it stands.

royals dad · Post by **royals dad** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:36 pm

Pens4 wrote:
Alpha wrote:Ok, after reading this, I'm a little confused.
Alpha,

After reading the last few posts I'm sure you have a pretty good feeling for what may be laying in wait in the AAA hockey world.

"Choose wisely grasshopper".... becasue not only will your daughter be playing in that environment but you'll be standing next to it stands.

And signing the checks!

redarmydad · Post by **redarmydad** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 5:56 pm

CenRedFan wrote:
redarmydad wrote:If you are new to AAA please be real about your child's ability. All I heard this year was how watered down the AAA teams and leagues have become as a result of independent teams and Development Leagues. I wish there were development leagues when my daughter was just coming into it. I would have saved a ton of money. I believe in the development programs. They definitely serve a purpose and help younger girls develop and prepare them for the upper level of play through conditioning. They also get opportunities to play in tournaments with there development team. Just thinking. I have found them very useful! So what I am saying is don't go throwing her into a AAA team without at least looking into developmental leagues. To name a few. OS with Winny Brodt, Minnesota Legacy, Skate to Excellence, Minnesota Edge. All solid in fundamentals and skill building along with game theory and game play. I truly believe they are very beneficial for younger kids.
The Legacy? Are you freaking kidding me????? The teams they put together could barely win a game!!!!

Passthefoil: What is with the attitude? If you would take the time to read and could understand what the word development means you would take from my previous statement what was intended. I was advocating those programs strictly for development, not winning games. As far as I am concerned, those programs should be designed strictly for skill development of kids that are new to the summer programs and want to develop skating and stick handling skills. When it comes to teaching game play to kids with a low range of skills or who have not had good coaching form previous years you can't expect to role into tournaments and win games. They should have limited the amount of tournaments they entered, especially the lower teams of Legacy and Skate to Excellence, to 1. Plus those programs took ever single skater that tried out and made the teams from that. NO!!!!! THOSE KIDS WERE NOT 0N THOSE TEAMS BECAUSE THEY GOT CUT FROM ANOTHER TEAM. They were there to try and get better. If you are putting together a team of elite skaters, most times you don't even have tryouts and you know who the top kids in the state are. Have some class and remember these are little girls you are talking about. I agree with you in taking your time and do some research. Talk to parents of kids in the program. Listen to the parents talk away from kids and coaches.

In my opinion if you have a child that is a true elite skater then look to strong programs and coaches. Most times, if your daughter is a top player, the parents have already been approached or asked to play on elite teams. All you have to do is ask around on who were the strong teams the last couple of years and who were there coaches. PJ Norby and the Junior Gophers, great teams 3 years in a row and went up to a tourny in Duluth this summer and won at U14 with a group of U12 skaters. This years U10 Wizards were strong. They won all 4 tournaments they were in. There coach was Randy Williamson from Edina. The 97 Minkota Wildcat team was solid along with there U10 girls. The U10 Minkota Wildcats lost 1 game all season and that was against the 98 Dream. The coach for both teams was Andy Mjoness from Moorhead. Unfortunately the Wizards and Wildcats never got to face off. The 96 Blades was very impressive as well, they accomplished a U14 tournament win with U12 skaters as well. There coach is Edina's U12A Coach, Dean Williamson. Again the U12 Blades and the U12 Jr. Gophers never got the chance to face off either.

Passthefoil most of these programs popped up because of the demand. Girls summer hockey has tripled in size in the last 3 years. Previously if a girl wanted to develop or play over the summer and may not be the strongest kid out there she would get passed by. Now every girl has an option to skate and develop. In the end, it is a learning experience and all of us have made mistakes in the past with where we place our kids.

Alpha I hope that you listen to Pass about doing the research and your daughter will end up where she needs to be. I know that some kids even do both. They play for a team and then use OS or the other programs to maintain skills.

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 6:04 pm

Not sure if I hit a nerve or you're just having a bad day, D10RoXyourSoX, but you have no clue about my daughter or me. So much for those other opinions:

lets hear from those other opinions, I do know that that is what this thread is about; opinions.

I also think you completely misread my post which wasn't really meant to defend a specific program; just a statement about win/losses which I assume is the source of alot of griping on this forum about watered down AAA. I think RedArmyDad had some good advice about recognizing ability and looking for a good development program. There are alot of alternatives which is good for girls hockey.

CenRedFan · Post by **CenRedFan** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 7:49 pm

Passthefoil wrote:CenRed - sounds like you got bit by lack of research. Sucks to be you, good luck next time around.

If you can, elaborate, we would love to hear another side of the Legacy program as we have the RedArmy version already.

Nope it doesn't suck to be me at all. Legacy is run by mostly Centennial persons and the girls teams are lacking - PERIOD! From the youngest to the oldest. My kid can skate 2 hrs a day 2-3 times a week anywhere but if you are looking for your kid to get better......well let's just say there are better options.

My daughter has done OS and I would recommend it to anyone. It was a great program - you get your money's worth every time. If the Legacy on the girls side was run like the boys version then it would be tons better.

forwards4ever · Post by **forwards4ever** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 12:46 am

CenRed is it the coaches, the philosophy, or letting every player play, that you dont like about Legacy, or is it the development team idea? Since you seem to have a strong opinion about the program. In the past 3 years I have tried Showcase AAA, tournament teams, and a developement team. I see not enough Ice on the tournament team and the kids getting burned out on the developement teams. I would like a reason behind the bold accusation.

Weighing all my options!

CenRedFan · Post by **CenRedFan** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 8:24 am

forwards4ever wrote:CenRed is it the coaches, the philosophy, or letting every player play, that you dont like about Legacy, or is it the development team idea? Since you seem to have a strong opinion about the program. In the past 3 years I have tried Showcase AAA, tournament teams, and a developement team. I see not enough Ice on the tournament team and the kids getting burned out on the developement teams. I would like a reason behind the bold accusation.

Weighing all my options!

I like the philosphy and idea of the Legacy teams however on the girls side it has not been incorporated. Is it coaching? Possibly but I am not sure. Or is it they feel they can't push the girls the way they do the boys? That could be it as well but I think the girls can take it. It might get better but for the cost it was disappointing to say the least.

Showcase mixed in with OS or local STP has worked well in the past. But Showcase is changing and going to be majorly expensive next year so it will be more like the independents. It's a tough call.

royals dad · Post by **royals dad** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:27 am

redarmydad wrote: If you would take the time to read and could understand what the word development means you would take from my previous statement what was intended. I was advocating those programs strictly for development, not winning games. As far as I am concerned, those programs should be designed strictly for skill development of kids that are new to the summer programs and want to develop skating and stick handling skills.

I completely agree but then why put them into tournaments? I watched them be very uncompetitive at u10, u12 , and u14 at International cup. If your not teaching game skills why play in games?

Phish12 · Post by **Phish12** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:38 am

I love how parents tend to view AAA hockey. "The best program must have the best tournament record, right?" WRONG. If you want your child to win summer championships, great. Get them onto one of the independent teams that are set up to do just that: win. They recruit the best skaters they can and they practice and scrimmage to prep for tournaments. Congrats to them. There is definitely a place for that in summer hockey, and I guess it gives the parents something to brag about - "Hey, my 10-year-old won the International Cup Championship last weekend, woo-hoo!!! NHL here we come." However, if you want your kid to develop skating skills so they can be an elite player throughout their career (which is what's actually required at the high school and college level), stop looking at wins and losses and look at what the program offers. My bias is obviously towards development, whether at camps or with summer development-focused programs. The beauty of it is, with the growing number of options, everyone can make their own choice. Just don't make a choice and then come on a chat board and claim such-and-such team, or so-and-so coach is the best because the team won a summer tournament. Bottom line: Did the child on the team get better?

royals dad · Post by **royals dad** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:03 pm

Phish12 wrote: They recruit the best skaters they can and they practice and scrimmage to prep for tournaments.

I think this is universally pretty much the definition of AAA hockey. Not just for some parents, it just is what the defintion is.

Phish12 wrote: However, if you want your kid to develop skating skills so they can be an elite player throughout their career (which is what's actually required at the high school and college level), stop looking at wins and losses and look at what the program offers.

That's great you have a solid development program, sell it as that. Don't say we are a great AAA Hockey program. Say that your a great Summer/Off Season development program, go ahead and scrimage like programs. But as I asked before why bring a develepment program to a AAA tournament to get skated off the ice by AAA teams (as defined above).

Phish12 wrote: Just don't make a choice and then come on a chat board and claim such-and-such team, or so-and-so coach is the best because the team won a summer tournament. Bottom line: Did the child on the team get better?

You just ripped about 80% of the posts on this board. Who would read this forum if it was posts about how a coach increased my kids stride efficency by 3% this summer? The Rams vs Warriors, North vs Metro, Cen vs the rest of NWSC or Edina vs everybody. Thats the fun of it, relax and enjoy the debate.

Can't speak for everyone but for my daughter Summer hockey is about skating for fun. She goes to her goalie coaches for development all year, skates drills all regular season. In the off season her AAA team goes to tournaments to win them, 10 min after its over the outcome doesnt matter. And yes I do cheer and get excited when they play, its a fun game to watch. Unless of course it is a double digit win over a "development" team, that is no fun for anybody.

Nhockeydad · Post by **Nhockeydad** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:26 pm

They recruit the best skaters they can and they practice and scrimmage to prep for tournaments.

Of course they do, isn't that what the definition of AAA hockey is?!!

Parents in the North drive two sometimes three hours to go to a two hour practice before a tournament. They don't want to spend $600 dollars a weekend on food, lodging and travel to go to the cities and get beat by a Metro AAA team, Canadian team or a Wisconsin team that practices twice a week all summer long. AAA hockey is about having fun, playing other teams that have high level of skill, meeting new friends from other associations, and of course winning is always nice. I think you may have things backwards, winter hockey is for development and summer hockey is to be competitive, and have fun.

Phish12 wrote:
However, if you want your kid to develop skating skills so they can be an elite player throughout their career (which is what's actually required at the high school and college level), stop looking at wins and losses and look at what the program offers.

A skater should be developing during the course of your association year. For the price of a development AAA team as you call it, which someone in the cities invented, you could go to about three summer hockey camps to get the development you are so looking for and need at the next levels. Most of our girls participate in the AAA and attend two to three camps during the summer, learning something a little different from each one. I don't disagree with you on the development programs, just don't call them a AAA team, as that is not what they are. This can't be a confidence booster for a child trying to develop, the lopsided AAA scores that we have been seeing throughout the AAA tournaments.

Can't speak for everyone but for my daughter Summer hockey is about skating for fun. She goes to her goalie coaches for development all year, skates drills all regular season. In the off season her AAA team goes to tournaments to win them, 10 min after its over the outcome doesnt matter. And yes I do cheer and get excited when they play, its a fun game to watch. Unless of course it is a double digit win over a "development" team, that is no fun for anybody.

I will agree 100% with Royals Dad on this one. You can speak for me!! When two true AAA teams play, it is a beautiful, game to watch.

mnhcp · Post by **mnhcp** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:34 pm

Nhockeydad wrote:
A skater should be developing during the course of your association year. For the price of a development AAA team as you call it, which someone in the cities invented, you could go to about three summer hockey camps to get the development you are so looking for and need at the next levels. Most of our girls participate in the AAA and attend two to three camps during the summer, learning something a little different from each one. I don't disagree with you on the development programs, just don't call them a AAA team, as that is not what they are. This can't be a confidence booster for a child trying to develop, the lopsided AAA scores that we have been seeing throughout the AAA tournaments.
We've had 2 AAA Experiences and they were both wonderful. Both about 40-50 hours of ice and 12 to 16 games. Both cost less per hour then our association hockey. My estimate about $16 an hour!

Our association counting preseason clinics, fundraising, registration, ice bills, games, scrimmages and misc cost $1500 last year which runs, wow....$16 an hour!

I'm serious the cost per hour was nearly EXACTLY the same as I was attempting to make a case that AAA was less expensive!

My sons team AAA is less but being this is a girls post I won't get into those details.

Phish12 · Post by **Phish12** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:47 pm

But as I asked before why bring a develepment program to a AAA tournament to get skated off the ice by AAA teams (as defined above).

Woah, woah, woah. I'm not for lopsided games, and I never said development-focused teams can't be as good as any other AAA team. Which tournaments are you playing in? Invite or open? Compare the top U10 teams from Legacy and Skate to Excellence against any other U10 AAA team in an invite bracket. You'll never see a team skate either of these "development-based" AAA teams off the ice. They are always competitive. In fact, these teams had to endure plenty of 13-0 wins this year, including a few over a 2000 Machine team that was completely overmatched. Heck, the entire crappy Showcase Easton Cup tournament was filled with 13-0 Legacy wins. In the lone quality game in the Easton Cup, Legacy tied the Wizards 3-3 on the real scoreboard, but "out-pointed" them on Showcase's idiotic point system 7-6. In the International Cup, I recall the Legacy team lost to the Blades 2-1 and the Minnkota Wildcats 3-2. STE tied the Blades 2-2 and lost to the Wildcats 6-4. All high quality opponents and all highly competitive games.

What I'm saying is, the focus for development-based teams is not solely on recruiting and winning, its on coaching fundamental skating techniques. But that doesn't mean it's for a bunch of kids who can't skate and don't work hard to win. It's for top skaters who want to get better at the fundamentals. Sometimes this means the team will be great. Sometimes it means the team will be mediocre. But in my view, with a focus on development, it always means the kids will improve dramatically.

A skater should be developing during the course of your association year.

I wish our association was good enough to make that a reality. Instead, the motto for many in the cities is "play in the winter, develop in the summer."

Nhockeydad · Post by **Nhockeydad** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:09 pm

I'm not for lopsided games, and I never said development-focused teams can't be as good as any other AAA team.

Now your starting to make sense. Your absolutely right when you say that all players can do developmental teams to become better players and I totally agree with that. I wish we had something like this in the North. However, that is not the case, so that is why I take offense to someone say things like whoopee we won another tournament. That is something to be proud of and when you play other great teams and win it feels good for both parents and kids. Money well spent, not everyone gets to play during the year for a true A team that has talent three lines deep. True AAA gives these girls that experience, which they might not find at their home association.

This is where I tend to differ a little:

is not solely on recruiting and winning, its on coaching fundamental skating techniques.

Your home association should be working on fundamentals at every practice every week. Your child should develop skills throughout the year, for us it was AAA to learn the team concepts as we don't practice enough to teach skills over repetition, two hours is just not enough, and the oppurtunity for our daughter to play with other girls equal and better than her to play the team concepts that don't always happen at the association level.

I wish our association was good enough to make that a reality. Instead, the motto for many in the cities is "play in the winter, develop in the summer."

This is why you will not see a lot of North teams do as well as the metro when it comes to association hockey, first of all they lack the numbers of girls in many of the small towns across the North. They also emphasize stickhandling and skating skills rather than team concepts and aren't always concerned about where we are rated in the state, after all it doesn't really matter until highschool how you do. Who remembers who won state at the youth level? Hence for the North, develop in the winter, winning would be great, have fun in the summer!!!!

royals dad · Post by **royals dad** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:27 am

Phish wrote: In the International Cup, I recall the Legacy team lost to the Blades 2-1 and the Minnkota Wildcats 3-2. STE tied the Blades 2-2 and lost to the Wildcats 6-4. All high quality opponents and all highly competitive games.

Legacy U14 at the international cup went 0 an 5 and had 4 GF and 33 GA.

http://www.pointstreak.com/players/play ... sonid=4485

I think the U10 and U12 teams had similar results. Maybe one win between the three teams.

Doglover · Post by **Doglover** » Fri Sep 18, 2009 8:43 am

After wading through so many crazy boy AAA threads this is a very refreshing and informed thread on girls' AAA hockey. If you can find a AAA team that is heavy on development but still competitive in top tournaments without having to win at all costs (sitting girls), I think you've found the right mix. I like the AAA teams that stick together year after year and build. There may be minor roster changes as some girls can't keep up with the pace or choose not to, and there will always be upgrades to the roster, but overall the teams that keep their roster as steady as possible have their priorities in order in my opinion. Summer hockey should be fun and not just about winning.

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AAA at U12 and U14

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