QuackerTracker wrote:
Can you post where you found it? I would like to get all the info.
I found it on D6 site under rules etc...
on the first page - changes for 2009-2010.
Thanks for the info. It had not been posted when we where informed over the weekend. It's still a joke!
Explain to us why you think this is a joke? This must affect you, how? Is this not the reason why people participate in summer hockey to play some of these AAA teams, why the importance of them participating in winter hockey? Or is the real reason is you want your Sidney Crosby Jr. to play his association so you can show everyone how great you think he is
Looks like you are the one who hasn't done your HOMEWORK..
Really?? Have not seen too many winter AAA Tier 1 teams better than say The Blades, Machine, Jr.Steelers etc. Outside of the Fire your argument is weak at best
elliott70 wrote:
I found it on D6 site under rules etc...
on the first page - changes for 2009-2010.
Thanks for the info. It had not been posted when we where informed over the weekend. It's still a joke!
Explain to us why you think this is a joke? This must affect you, how? Is this not the reason why people participate in summer hockey to play some of these AAA teams, why the importance of them participating in winter hockey? Or is the real reason is you want your Sidney Crosby Jr. to play his association so you can show everyone how great you think he is
Good effort but I would have to have a kid to have a Sidney (maybe some day, and he/she will play at the highest level he/she wants to). My concern is for myself (yes the world revolves around me, I am a ref after all)and being able to officiate the best possible games at the highest level. It's a joke because the fear that some people have of AAA is showing in some of the most stupid ways and that's what this rule is. God forbid we would want to Minnesota teams play against the best from around the country. However we all know this rule is nothing more then an attempt to shut out the Fire.
How sad is it that the "State of Hockey" has only Shattuck that can compete at a national tournament.
elliott70 wrote:2009-2010 Changes
1) There is a minimum 3 game suspension for fighting when called in a game between District 6 teams whether in league, scrimmage or tournament.
2) Check your goalie pads. The rules changed and the grandfather period is over this year. Page 47 of the Ice Hockey rules outlines the requirements.
3) No Inter Level Play without Director approval. Tier I AAA teams are not allowed in Invitational Tournaments.
4) Participation Rule -- This rule changes player eligibility.
Edina hosts a few Tournaments, at different levels, over the Holidays that traditionally had the Thunderbirds in it. This new rule means they are not eligible to participate since CO Thunderbirds are classified as Tier 1 AAA.
The Fire on the other hand had their Tier 1 AAA classification removed by WAHA last May. The Fire are "Unclassified" and would be eligible to play in a District 6 Tournament . It will be interesting to see in D6 uses this rule on the Fire when saying "no" to their tournament applications!
Maybe the new Rule needs to be re-written like this..
3) No Inter Level Play without Director approval. Wisconsin Fire Hockey Club teams are not allowed in Invitational Tournaments.
Looks like you are the one who hasn't done your HOMEWORK.. [/quote]
Really?? Have not seen too many winter AAA Tier 1 teams better than say The Blades, Machine, Jr.Steelers etc. Outside of the Fire your argument is weak at best [/quote]
If you traveled outside of the metro you would see how foolish your hockey perspective really is. There is some really big kids that play hockey and they can skate too. I would like to see the look on the dads face when the 6 foot 175 pound 1997 birthdate boy pushes his boy aside enroute to scoring his six or seven goals a game at his age level.
-If the INTENT of the rule was to stop the Fire teams from playing D6 teams
- Then the GOAL would be to have other districts follow suit, thus Fire would have zero local teams to scrimmage/play
- The RESULT would then be less kids leaving local associations for the Fire.
The proposal to D6 affiliate members was a little grey. The reasoning was due to INSURANCE reasons. Which is a little odd because wouldn't MN Hockey as a whole follow a insurance reasoning and not just a district?
The proposal to D6 was that association teams cannot scrimmage, play, or allow in their trnys: teams from outside of MN Hockey that are not classified thru USA Hockey.
The example from D6 (without using names) a sanctioned USA Hockey team ( i.e. thunderbirds ) are ok. The non sanctioned or unclassified team ( ie fire ) is not.
This was NOT voted on by the D6 Associaton boards, but advised of the rule.
The current rule in D6 website is not what was proposed. Tier 1 classified appears to be a typo from their policy as it is the opposite. Maybe D6 will edit it.
I would think that another set of teams D6 considered with this was the MM squirt and mite league.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. How will it be monitored in a trny outside of D6 : Edina in the championship against the Fire in Roseau,MN for example, can they play the game? Is that fair to Edina kids, parents, and the team they eliminated to get to the chip?
What is Shattuck classified as? If you view Shattucks schedule for bantam and tier 1 bantam you will see more then one D6 team with them on their schedule. Some have already played them. Did D6 drop fines? How did they enforce it? What is the punishment?
I feel MN Hockey can completely set rules as to whom their affiliate members teams can play. I do think that this should be as a whole and not a few districts, or just one. The D6 rule on their webpage will likely be changed as currently stated, or simply go away.
With regards to NO interlevel play: I read one comment about MN hockey does not allow it. Does that mean no B teams can sign up and play in a A trny? Obviously there is ZERO difference in B and B2 with the interlevel rule. As it is very common for MN Hockey teams at the B2 level to signup for a regular B tournament.
council member retired wrote:
The proposal to D6 affiliate members was a little grey. The reasoning was due to INSURANCE reasons. Which is a little odd because wouldn't MN Hockey as a whole follow a insurance reasoning and not just a district?
The proposal to D6 was that association teams cannot scrimmage, play, or allow in their trnys: teams from outside of MN Hockey that are not classified thru USA Hockey.
The example from D6 (without using names) a sanctioned USA Hockey team ( i.e. thunderbirds ) are ok. The non sanctioned or unclassified team ( ie fire ) is not.
This was NOT voted on by the D6 Associaton boards, but advised of the rule.
So who made up and approved this rule? The D6 rule as stated means, Tier 1 teams are out, MM Choice teams are out, Fire Hockey Club is in! The Fire is a sanctioned WAHA Team/Affiliate, registered/insured with USA Hockey. They are not classified as a Tier 1 AAA team
Are you saying winter season AAA teams can't play in winter season association tournaments in MN? I would agree that playing these teams is a challenge and usually fun for the kids.
No Colorado Thunderbirds in the Edina Tourney?
No Fire teams in the Bloomington and Burnsville Tourneys?
Several Colorado teams, AA and AAA, have been coming to Minnesota in recent years for better competition for their players. Are you saying no longer allowed?
Can you point us to a particular document, rule, etc?
That is correct that the Fire and Colorado teams would not be allowed in Bloom and Burns.
This was passed down to the D6 officiating associations and we where told that we would be subject to fines and susspensions from Minn Hock if we officiated any games with AAA teams (this will be hard to do since we are not employees of Minn Hock). We where told that the ruling came from Minn Hock. Funny they don't have any meeting minutes posted after June.
It could be D6 passing the ruling but Brad Hewitt is claim it is a MN Hock thinkg
Quacker,
I was a little discracted at the annual meeting, I don't remember hearing this...What meeting was this discussed at? Not saying it wasn't said, I just didn't hear it...What meeting, please? As far as fines go, you have got to be kidding me. If you want to take this off this board, please PM me. Thanks
council member retired wrote:
With regards to NO interlevel play: I read one comment about MN hockey does not allow it. Does that mean no B teams can sign up and play in a A trny?
That is edxactly what it means and vice versa and include C-B or C-A.
Obviously there is ZERO difference in B and B2 with the interlevel rule. As it is very common for MN Hockey teams at the B2 level to signup for a regular B tournament.
USA Hockey has no such thing as a B2 team - a B team is a B team.
This part of the rule is clarified in the Hnadbook.
Looks like you are the one who hasn't done your HOMEWORK..
Really?? Have not seen too many winter AAA Tier 1 teams better than say The Blades, Machine, Jr.Steelers etc. Outside of the Fire your argument is weak at best
If you traveled outside of the metro you would see how foolish your hockey perspective really is. There is some really big kids that play hockey and they can skate too. I would like to see the look on the dads face when the 6 foot 175 pound 1997 birthdate boy pushes his boy aside enroute to scoring his six or seven goals a game at his age level.
Brilliant, you have now changed my mind on this topic with your intelligent perspective! You may want to change your moniker to 1st Grader
elliott70 wrote:
I found it on D6 site under rules etc...
on the first page - changes for 2009-2010.
Thanks for the info. It had not been posted when we where informed over the weekend. It's still a joke!
Explain to us why you think this is a joke? This must affect you, how? Is this not the reason why people participate in summer hockey to play some of these AAA teams, why the importance of them participating in winter hockey? Or is the real reason is you want your Sidney Crosby Jr. to play his association so you can show everyone how great you think he is
Puck,
You are a bag of wind. You pollute these threads with your constant crap and you really need to find the door. If you were as knowledgeable about hockey as you like to portray yourself you would have a much broader view of the landscape. Not everyone has an agenda. The majority of Minnesotans don’t have a clue as to the structure outside of Minnesota. Tier I, Tier II, AAA, AA, A call it what you want it is the structure of hockey outside of our state. Blocking any USA Hockey registered team from participating in our tournaments is ridiculous and has nothing to do with your sacred community based hockey. In the winter, there is no threat therefore no need to deny any team from our tournaments. Protect us from the Fire? Give me a break. With over 52,000 registered players in the state, I don’t think the Fire or any other organization is a threat. The community-based structure is not going anywhere. Settle down.
I, like Quaker am a ref. I look forward to doing the winter tourneys as we get to work with teams outside of our state. It is our opportunity to show other states that our system works. I enjoy watching some of these teams come in with all of their letters attached to their names (AAA, AA, A, Tier I, Tier II) and get their butts kicked as much as they kick our butts. It is an opportunity for everyone involved to eat a little humble pie. So before you start crap with the posters on this board I would encourage you to open your eyes and shut your mouth…
So maybe the boarder states should say NO Minnesota teams in our Tourneys!!!!
How many years has a MN team won the Fargo Tourney?
How many MN teams go to Wisconsin for tourneys?
Maybe MN should just worry about skill development and not worry about who's playing who.
I think MN hockey is starting to become the state of cry babies instead of the state of hockey!!
QuackerTracker wrote:
Thanks for the info. It had not been posted when we where informed over the weekend. It's still a joke!
Explain to us why you think this is a joke? This must affect you, how? Is this not the reason why people participate in summer hockey to play some of these AAA teams, why the importance of them participating in winter hockey? Or is the real reason is you want your Sidney Crosby Jr. to play his association so you can show everyone how great you think he is
Puck,
You are a bag of wind. You pollute these threads with your constant crap and you really need to find the door. If you were as knowledgeable about hockey as you like to portray yourself you would have a much broader view of the landscape. Not everyone has an agenda. The majority of Minnesotans don’t have a clue as to the structure outside of Minnesota. Tier I, Tier II, AAA, AA, A call it what you want it is the structure of hockey outside of our state. Blocking any USA Hockey registered team from participating in our tournaments is ridiculous and has nothing to do with your sacred community based hockey. In the winter, there is no threat therefore no need to deny any team from our tournaments. Protect us from the Fire? Give me a break. With over 52,000 registered players in the state, I don’t think the Fire or any other organization is a threat. The community-based structure is not going anywhere. Settle down.
I, like Quaker am a ref. I look forward to doing the winter tourneys as we get to work with teams outside of our state. It is our opportunity to show other states that our system works. I enjoy watching some of these teams come in with all of their letters attached to their names (AAA, AA, A, Tier I, Tier II) and get their butts kicked as much as they kick our butts. It is an opportunity for everyone involved to eat a little humble pie. So before you start crap with the posters on this board I would encourage you to open your eyes and shut your mouth…
And as always, enjoy the game. Love Ya!!
Ref - Thanks for the verbal warning, I will make sure to take that in consideration on future post
Not sure why you are so upset?? Lets be honest here, parents who pull their children from association hockey to go to Wisconsin for AAA do it because they feel association hockey is not good enough for there player, but yet the same parents will now piss and moan because they won't be able to play Minnesota teams. If you want to play Minnesota teams, STAY IN MINNESOTA - real simple!!
Kudos to Minnesota Hockey on this rule!
Have fun traveling to Green Bay to play some crap AAA team for the weekend
"ThePuckStopsHere" you are a P.O.S..
Our teams in GB are AAA so we have some hope of being competitive at a higher level. Some times we succeed other times we don't but to call our teams crap is really a low blow. We unfortunately do not live in the Hockey Utopia like you do. Wisconsin does not have the hockey culture that you do in MN and we struggle to attract the better athletes to play the sport we love. In order to allow our more skilled players to play at a MN-A level we must take players from several towns and because of this are required to register as AAA/Tier 1. I have been scheduling our teams in tournaments in MN for 8 years and I don't think that we have ever had an unfair advantage against your teams. In fact we are always bringing younger smaller players because of you age registration differences and are at a significant disadvantage. None the less we have always enjoyed playing in a tournament or two in MN to round out our schedule.
This fall we were disinvited from a tournament in Duluth that we had been accepted into because of this rule. When I inquired with MN Hockey as to why, they cited the rule on the books prohibiting play between different levels i.e. A v. B or B v. C. The said that it was not new but was going to be enforced and clubs violating were going to be punished. It is my belief that since I see no mention of AAA in this rule and that your rule book did not list AAA or tier 1 teams that our WAHA registered AAA/Tier 1 teams should be considered as MN Hockey A level teams and allowed to participate as we have for years.
It is saddening that your state associations inability to deal with the Fire, growing off season AAA and the growth of MN Made in house development teams has closed of our teams from participating in your " invitational " tournaments.
I hope that you will be less provincial and see that Border and other states have different systems and challenges and both will benefit from having our teams play each other.
D16 does and will continue to take all that want to participate. We recognize the difference since we have been takeing Canadian teams for decaades and they use a different system of classification.
Not sure why you are so upset?? Lets be honest here, parents who pull their children from association hockey to go to Wisconsin for AAA do it because they feel association hockey is not good enough for there player, but yet the same parents will now piss and moan because they won't be able to play Minnesota teams. If you want to play Minnesota teams, STAY IN MINNESOTA - real simple!!
Kudos to Minnesota Hockey on this rule!
Have fun traveling to Green Bay to play some crap AAA team for the weekend
"ThePuckStopsHere" you are a P.O.S..
Our teams in GB are AAA so we have some hope of being competitive at a higher level. Some times we succeed other times we don't but to call our teams crap is really a low blow. We unfortunately do not live in the Hockey Utopia like you do. Wisconsin does not have the hockey culture that you do in MN and we struggle to attract the better athletes to play the sport we love. In order to allow our more skilled players to play at a MN-A level we must take players from several towns and because of this are required to register as AAA/Tier 1. I have been scheduling our teams in tournaments in MN for 8 years and I don't think that we have ever had an unfair advantage against your teams. In fact we are always bringing younger smaller players because of you age registration differences and are at a significant disadvantage. None the less we have always enjoyed playing in a tournament or two in MN to round out our schedule.
This fall we were disinvited from a tournament in Duluth that we had been accepted into because of this rule. When I inquired with MN Hockey as to why, they cited the rule on the books prohibiting play between different levels i.e. A v. B or B v. C. The said that it was not new but was going to be enforced and clubs violating were going to be punished. It is my belief that since I see no mention of AAA in this rule and that your rule book did not list AAA or tier 1 teams that our WAHA registered AAA/Tier 1 teams should be considered as MN Hockey A level teams and allowed to participate as we have for years.
It is saddening that your state associations inability to deal with the Fire, growing off season AAA and the growth of MN Made in house development teams has closed of our teams from participating in your " invitational " tournaments.
I hope that you will be less provincial and see that Border and other states have different systems and challenges and both will benefit from having our teams play each other.
Rather than spending your time whining to Minnesota Hockey because they won't let one of your Wisconsin AAA teams participate in one of our Association Based tournaments, why don't you and some of your cheese-head hockey parents start to build a reputable association based program of your own like Minnesota has?? Or is it just easier to put your hands up and say it can't be done in Wisconsin, and then hope to ride the coat tails of all the hard work Minnesota Youth Hockey has done to build this great program?
Now I know why Brett Favre wanted to come to Minnesota, to be part of the greatest hockey program in the USA
From MH Handbook
"Interlevel Play - There shall be no interlevel play (games or scrimmages) between divisions (i.e. Peewee vs. Bantam, 14U vs. 12U) or between classifications (A and B, B and C or A and C teams), with the exception of Youth 16&Under and Junior Gold "B". In special circumstances where interlevel play between classifications is appropriate, approval of the cognizant District Director(s) must be obtained. Interlevel play is not permitted in invitational tournaments or MH playoff tournaments, with the exception that Youth 16&Under teams may participate in Junior Gold "B" invitational tournaments."
The interpretation of this to mean that Tier I teams cannot play in MN invitational tournaments is pretty loose.
When I was the Bemidji and then District Tournament Director I was told by the VP of tournaments that when you had out of state or Canadian teams you wanted to assure both parties that the level would be competitive because of the difference in the way teams are formed and their competitiveness - because you cannot base it on the MN system - they are not comparable.
Indeed, we would not want Hallock entering an Edina tournament (no offense to either party) - but Hallock has 12 to 15 peewees but it is okay for them to play but the Fire cannot???????
I fully understand the frustration with MN kids playing in WI without appropriate transfer but if USAH says it is okay based on their rule then we accept it.
Minnesota Made obviously is not going to be playing any MH team in any shape or form. But that is their choice. (And I have nothing against MM but you are either part of it or you are not) That's a pretty clear cut rule as opposed to the one above.
Like I said, we are not going to tell the Winnipeg teams to stay home.
There is some really big kids that play hockey and they can skate too. I would like to see the look on the dads face when the 6 foot 175 pound 1997 birthdate boy pushes his boy aside enroute to scoring his six or seven goals a game at his age level.
