Section 4AA 2009-2010 Outlook & Projections

[iceage]

I guess she is in the Stillwater summer camp and not the HM camp.....Sarah Bruchu was a great player/defender at Hill Murray in 8th and 9th grade if true big loss for Pioneers and big gain for Stillwater Ponies - good kid, good student and well liked. I would guess she will have to sit out her 10th grade season since her family already lived in Stillwater? If she does move I hope all goes well for her and she finds all that she is looking for.

I was told a private schooler could go back to her home school without penalty if the private school became a financial burden to the family. Does anyone have any more insight on this?

Nothing in the transfer bylaws on this that I could fine. I did pose the situation to the MSHSL and I'll post their answer when (and if) I get it.

[ghshockeyfan]

It doesn't matter whether it is a private or public school involved in the transfer or if the student played on a varsity team or not. Bylaw 111.00 under Domestic Students paragraph 2 and B state:

"2. A transfer student is eligible for varsity competition if:

B. Family Residence Change: the student transfers from one public school district attendance area to another public school district attendence area at any time during the calendar year in which there is a change of residence and occupancy in Minnesota by the student's parents. If the student's parents move from one public school district attendence area to another public school district attendence area, the student will be eligible in the new public school attendence area or a non-public school if the student transfers at the same time the student's parents move."

Thank you. I didn't think about the ability to change residences when I made my initial inquiry. I trust that is the situation here? By the way, I am not trying to make waves, just curious.

Not a big deal but just to clear up the confusion once and for all. Here is the part of joe's post that you seem to have missed:

".....with a newcomer Junior I don't know much about who has moved to Eastside and enrolled at Hill."

This may be obvious... but also a player may transfer w/out penalty from private-to-private if a move from one public HS attendance area to another is involved. As said above - as long as a move is involved, all is OK transfer wise. This is why many still consider an apartment in another attendance area (for transfer to private) or in the attendance area of the school they wish to attend (for transfer to public). Note that whatever address is used is expected to be occupied by the student & guardian. However how long this actually happens (occupancy) is always possible to change once the admission & MSHSL processes are complete, school year has started, etc. Plus - we also have the situation where a family legitimately moves and the student wants to finish their HS days at the same HS they've been at. I'd say that is OK and we can only expect the MSHSL to police and enforce residency/relocation requirements to a certain extent! =)

[dochockey]

I’d say the favorites in section 4AA looks to be Roseville and Stillwater with White Bear not too far behind. Hill and North St. Paul may be fighting for the fourth seed in this section depending on how their conference games play out. There were 2 other girls who transferred from Hill last year who will playing for White Bear this year. Add to that Saad, and Bruchu, leaving and one more who I think will be playing for Woodbury and you’d have to say Hill has suffered from the recession. My choice to win this section would be White Bear who finally seems to have their act together. I could see them sneaking up to surprise people like Cretin did 2 years ago.

[ghshockeyfan]

I guess she is in the Stillwater summer camp and not the HM camp.....Sarah Bruchu was a great player/defender at Hill Murray in 8th and 9th grade if true big loss for Pioneers and big gain for Stillwater Ponies - good kid, good student and well liked. I would guess she will have to sit out her 10th grade season since her family already lived in Stillwater? If she does move I hope all goes well for her and she finds all that she is looking for.

I was told a private schooler could go back to her home school without penalty if the private school became a financial burden to the family. Does anyone have any more insight on this?

Nothing in the transfer bylaws on this that I could fine. I did pose the situation to the MSHSL and I'll post their answer when (and if) I get it.

It's legit, been done before w/MSHSL blessing from what I understand especially in these challenging economic times, but I too would be interested to hear the official wording of the response.

[observer]

I read where the Minneapolis North kids that make up part of the Hopkins State championship basketball team used the apartment method but that they sat/sit empty. Not well policed. The rule violation was printed right in a StarTribune article about the team.

Financial hardship I presume they do review the family tax return. But, what is hardship and how is that defined. If someone just chooses not to spend $25,000 on a high school education, and return to the public high school in their neighborhood, how can they be denied. Tricky to define.

[ghshockeyfan]

I read where the Minneapolis North kids that make up part of the Hopkins State championship basketball team used the apartment method but that they sat/sit empty. Not well policed. The rule violation was printed right in a StarTribune article about the team.

Financial hardship I presume they do review the family tax return. But, what is hardship and how is that defined. If someone just chooses not to spend $25,000 on a high school education, and return to the public high school in their neighborhood, how can they be denied. Tricky to define.

I wasn't aware of the Hopkins specifics but I know that this is more common than most realize.

Agreed on "Financial Hardship." How is that defined? Probably case-by-case but I'd be stunned if a family had to provide even tax or many – if any – other financial documents to the MSHSL. I could see a statement of rationale but maybe I just don't know the process well enough in this case.

What shouldn't get lost in all of this is what's best for the student. Sometimes there's more to these moves that's actually in the best interest of the student involved and oftentimes this has nothing to do with athletics or academics. HS is challenging for many reasons and I personally believe that athletics are one of the best things for student-athletes. To take that participation option away under certain circumstances probably is the worst thing that could happen. As much as people may abuse or circumvent the rules, there are some that are moving for very good and legitimate reasons that have nothing to do with perceptions of building private powerhouses or public open-enrollment all-star teams.

[Silent But Deadly]

I know of two girls that were going to move with one parent into a neighboring school district (the parent was buying a townhome in the new district - the other parent was to stay in their current home) and the AD of new district would not approve the transfer. He said the entire family has to move. Technically he couldn't stop the transfer but he could make the players sit out.

Obviously this is not being administered equally.

[ghshockeyfan]

I know of two girls that were going to move with one parent into a neighboring school district (the parent was buying a townhome in the new district - the other parent was to stay in their current home) and the AD of new district would not approve the transfer. He said the entire family has to move. Technically he couldn't stop the transfer but he could make the players sit out.

Obviously this is not being administered equally.

What if the parents were divorcing or separated/separating? Are they going to ask for legal papers documenting that? Seems that the judgement of the AD could be brought to the MSHSL for consideration. I guess it is truly left up to interpretation...

[hemiman]

Hey Doc,
Who is leaving Hill to attend White Bear this year? I have not heard the rumors before.

[joehockey]

Maybe the other HM player was Lacy Shue who grew up in the WB youth program and was a part of some of those top girls teams I think? She played JV at HM but thought she was injured last summer and decided to give up hockey and return to WB. Good hard working kid.

.......There were 2 other girls who transferred from Hill last year who will playing for White Bear this year. Add to that Saad, and Bruchu, leaving and one more who I think will be playing for Woodbury and you’d have to say Hill has suffered from the recession......

Doc,

Agree economic times make it tougher for a school like Hill but I think the girls hockey program will be fine - summer camp is full and I would guess teams will be more than full for tryouts again this year.

Not sure who left HM that you are commenting on? Are you talking about Hayley Hill who was at HM on JV in 8th grade and played on the WBL Varsity in 9th (although small she is a very good player) and probably would have been on the HM varsity (her Dad Rick does a lot for girls hockey)? Here is the WB roster who is the other player who left HM?

Players: GRADE Goals Assists
Bruestle, Elsa 11 12 8
Green, Erin 11 10 11
Hill, Hayley 9 7 5
Kwapick, Heidi 11 5 8
Lowell, Crysta 10 3 1
Ness, Val 11 3 1
Longendyke, Kristi 8 3 1
Zappa, Jackie 11 3 1
Marcotte, Maddie 11 2 6
Hanson, Sam 9 2 5
Johnson, Morgan 11 1 5
Snidarich, Hannah 11 1 0
Lanigan, Lindsey 11 0 1
Toupal, Claire 11 0 0
Dysthe, Becca 9 0 0
Thompson, Taylor 9 0 1
Snidarich, Carrie 12 0 1
Senarighi, Rachel 11 0 0
LeTourneau, Katie 9 0 0
Peirce, Maegan 10 0 0
Graf, Karissa 11 0 0
Schaub, Nicole 10 0 0
DeSmidt, Jenna 9 0 0
Dornfeld, Riki 11 0 0
Howard, Kayla 9 0 0
Bonne, Carly 10 0 1
Coller, Kayla 9 0 0
Howe, Caitie 9 0 0
Dueber, Cady 12 0 0
Bircher, Abbie 9 0 0
Milotzky, Danielle 9 0 0
Rappa, Mary 10 0 0
Total 52 56

[jumpstart]

Maybe the other HM player was Lacy Shue who grew up in the WB youth program and was a part of some of those top girls teams I think? She played JV at HM but thought she was injured last summer and decided to give up hockey and return to WB. Good hard working kid.

.......There were 2 other girls who transferred from Hill last year who will playing for White Bear this year. Add to that Saad, and Bruchu, leaving and one more who I think will be playing for Woodbury and you’d have to say Hill has suffered from the recession......

Doc,

Agree economic times make it tougher for a school like Hill but I think the girls hockey program will be fine - summer camp is full and I would guess teams will be more than full for tryouts again this year.

Not sure who left HM that you are commenting on? Are you talking about Hayley Hill who was at HM on JV in 8th grade and played on the WBL Varsity in 9th (although small she is a very good player) and probably would have been on the HM varsity (her Dad Rick does a lot for girls hockey)? Here is the WB roster who is the other player who left HM?

Players: GRADE Goals Assists
Bruestle, Elsa 11 12 8
Green, Erin 11 10 11
Hill, Hayley 9 7 5
Kwapick, Heidi 11 5 8
Lowell, Crysta 10 3 1
Ness, Val 11 3 1
Longendyke, Kristi 8 3 1
Zappa, Jackie 11 3 1
Marcotte, Maddie 11 2 6
Hanson, Sam 9 2 5
Johnson, Morgan 11 1 5
Snidarich, Hannah 11 1 0
Lanigan, Lindsey 11 0 1
Toupal, Claire 11 0 0
Dysthe, Becca 9 0 0
Thompson, Taylor 9 0 1
Snidarich, Carrie 12 0 1
Senarighi, Rachel 11 0 0
LeTourneau, Katie 9 0 0
Peirce, Maegan 10 0 0
Graf, Karissa 11 0 0
Schaub, Nicole 10 0 0
DeSmidt, Jenna 9 0 0
Dornfeld, Riki 11 0 0
Howard, Kayla 9 0 0
Bonne, Carly 10 0 1
Coller, Kayla 9 0 0
Howe, Caitie 9 0 0
Dueber, Cady 12 0 0
Bircher, Abbie 9 0 0
Milotzky, Danielle 9 0 0
Rappa, Mary 10 0 0
Total 52 56

Not sure where you pulled your stats from, but they are not even close. And just for clarification, these are the grades in school last year.

[joehockey]

Maybe the other HM player was Lacy Shue who grew up in the WB youth program and was a part of some of those top girls teams I think? She played JV at HM but thought she was injured last summer and decided to give up hockey and return to WB. Good hard working kid.

.......There were 2 other girls who transferred from Hill last year who will playing for White Bear this year. Add to that Saad, and Bruchu, leaving and one more who I think will be playing for Woodbury and you’d have to say Hill has suffered from the recession......

Doc,

Agree economic times make it tougher for a school like Hill but I think the girls hockey program will be fine - summer camp is full and I would guess teams will be more than full for tryouts again this year.

Not sure who left HM that you are commenting on? Are you talking about Hayley Hill who was at HM on JV in 8th grade and played on the WBL Varsity in 9th (although small she is a very good player) and probably would have been on the HM varsity (her Dad Rick does a lot for girls hockey)? Here is the WB roster who is the other player who left HM?

Players: GRADE Goals Assists
Bruestle, Elsa 11 12 8
Green, Erin 11 10 11
Hill, Hayley 9 7 5
Kwapick, Heidi 11 5 8
Lowell, Crysta 10 3 1
Ness, Val 11 3 1
Longendyke, Kristi 8 3 1
Zappa, Jackie 11 3 1
Marcotte, Maddie 11 2 6
Hanson, Sam 9 2 5
Johnson, Morgan 11 1 5
Snidarich, Hannah 11 1 0
Lanigan, Lindsey 11 0 1
Toupal, Claire 11 0 0
Dysthe, Becca 9 0 0
Thompson, Taylor 9 0 1
Snidarich, Carrie 12 0 1
Senarighi, Rachel 11 0 0
LeTourneau, Katie 9 0 0
Peirce, Maegan 10 0 0
Graf, Karissa 11 0 0
Schaub, Nicole 10 0 0
DeSmidt, Jenna 9 0 0
Dornfeld, Riki 11 0 0
Howard, Kayla 9 0 0
Bonne, Carly 10 0 1
Coller, Kayla 9 0 0
Howe, Caitie 9 0 0
Dueber, Cady 12 0 0
Bircher, Abbie 9 0 0
Milotzky, Danielle 9 0 0
Rappa, Mary 10 0 0
Total 52 56

Not sure where you pulled your stats from, but they are not even close. And just for clarification, these are the grades in school last year.

Jumpstart - Sorry it was the Coaches site..... for the 2008-2009 season - please update with any source you choose or like.

http://www.mghca.com/test/general/teamp ... eam_id=140

[jumpstart]

Maybe the other HM player was Lacy Shue who grew up in the WB youth program and was a part of some of those top girls teams I think? She played JV at HM but thought she was injured last summer and decided to give up hockey and return to WB. Good hard working kid.
Doc,

Agree economic times make it tougher for a school like Hill but I think the girls hockey program will be fine - summer camp is full and I would guess teams will be more than full for tryouts again this year.

Not sure who left HM that you are commenting on? Are you talking about Hayley Hill who was at HM on JV in 8th grade and played on the WBL Varsity in 9th (although small she is a very good player) and probably would have been on the HM varsity (her Dad Rick does a lot for girls hockey)? Here is the WB roster who is the other player who left HM?

Players: GRADE Goals Assists
Bruestle, Elsa 11 12 8
Green, Erin 11 10 11
Hill, Hayley 9 7 5
Kwapick, Heidi 11 5 8
Lowell, Crysta 10 3 1
Ness, Val 11 3 1
Longendyke, Kristi 8 3 1
Zappa, Jackie 11 3 1
Marcotte, Maddie 11 2 6
Hanson, Sam 9 2 5
Johnson, Morgan 11 1 5
Snidarich, Hannah 11 1 0
Lanigan, Lindsey 11 0 1
Toupal, Claire 11 0 0
Dysthe, Becca 9 0 0
Thompson, Taylor 9 0 1
Snidarich, Carrie 12 0 1
Senarighi, Rachel 11 0 0
LeTourneau, Katie 9 0 0
Peirce, Maegan 10 0 0
Graf, Karissa 11 0 0
Schaub, Nicole 10 0 0
DeSmidt, Jenna 9 0 0
Dornfeld, Riki 11 0 0
Howard, Kayla 9 0 0
Bonne, Carly 10 0 1
Coller, Kayla 9 0 0
Howe, Caitie 9 0 0
Dueber, Cady 12 0 0
Bircher, Abbie 9 0 0
Milotzky, Danielle 9 0 0
Rappa, Mary 10 0 0
Total 52 56

Not sure where you pulled your stats from, but they are not even close. And just for clarification, these are the grades in school last year.

Jumpstart - Sorry it was the Coaches site..... for the 2008-2009 season - please update with any source you choose or like.

http://www.mghca.com/test/general/teamp ... eam_id=140

I'm not sure there is one site that is accurate on stats. I personally don't put much stock in stats (except stats kept in professional sports where qualified people are recording the stats and they are checked against videotape.) Youth and high school stats are inherently unreliable. I just didn't want someone to look at this and think, wow, that's not many points for a whole team ...

[Homer]

I went out on limb and voted for WBL, their top players all have several years of varsity experience. If the seniors can step up and lead this team and Abrahamson becomes a solid backstop, I look for them to pull a few upsets during the season and in the playoffs.
If they don't do much this year it might be a while before they are able to make some noise. I haven't seen too much talent coming up through their association, the last few years.

[iceage]

It's legit, been done before w/MSHSL blessing from what I understand especially in these challenging economic times, but I too would be interested to hear the official wording of the response.

I didn't get a definitive answer other than: "The transfer eligibility of the student will be determined by the athletic director at the student's school."
Too bad there is not a single clearinghouse for rules interpretations rather than leaving open the possibility of 343 different interpretations of a given rule (the number of school districts in Minnesota).

[ghshockeyfan]

Nothing in the transfer bylaws on this that I could find. I did pose the situation to the MSHSL and I'll post their answer when (and if) I get it.

It's legit, been done before w/MSHSL blessing from what I understand especially in these challenging economic times, but I too would be interested to hear the official wording of the response.

I didn't get a definitive answer other than: "The transfer eligibility of the student will be determined by the athletic director at the student's school."
Too bad there is not a single clearinghouse for rules interpretations rather than leaving open the possibility of 343 different interpretations of a given rule (the number of school districts in Minnesota).

Present a good case to the AD I guess is the point... So if I move and file paperwork with new school AD and they reject it I would imagine that I could ask the MSHSL to look at the ruling? Someone mentioned on here that something like this had happened with a family that was spliting residences of parents... I also wonder if districts may have AD's that would interpret things differently from HS-to-HS if multiple HS's in same District...

[OntheEdge]

It's legit, been done before w/MSHSL blessing from what I understand especially in these challenging economic times, but I too would be interested to hear the official wording of the response.

I didn't get a definitive answer other than: "The transfer eligibility of the student will be determined by the athletic director at the student's school."
Too bad there is not a single clearinghouse for rules interpretations rather than leaving open the possibility of 343 different interpretations of a given rule (the number of school districts in Minnesota).

Present a good case to the AD I guess is the point... So if I move and file paperwork with new school AD and they reject it I would imagine that I could ask the MSHSL to look at the ruling? Someone mentioned on here that something like this had happened with a family that was spliting residences of parents... I also wonder if districts may have AD's that would interpret things differently from HS-to-HS if multiple HS's in same District...

The AD has a lot of interpreted power but the AD isn't the final Arbiter as Edina found out recently. Edina just got dinged in Football because the AD allowed a transfer student to play when MSHSL disagreed. Edina had to forfeit all of their wins this past football season.

[Melvin44]

Hey Doc,
Who is leaving Hill to attend White Bear this year? I have not heard the rumors before.

WBL has no transfers this year from Hill playing hockey.

[Melvin44]

Here are closer WBL stats for last year 2008/09. Only lose 1 senior. Coach has them working hard this summer.


Players: GRADE Goals Assists
Green, Erin 11 17 19
Bruestle, Elsa 11 16 15
Hill, Hayley 9 10 14
Kwapick, Heidi 11 6 12
Marcotte, Maddie 11 2 14
Hanson, Sam 9 2 12
Lowell, Crysta 10 3 6 (8 games)
Ness, Val 11 4 6
Longendyke, Kristi 8 6 5
Johnson, Morgan 11 2 9
Schaub, Nicole 10 0 8
Zappa, Jackie 11 4 3
Lanigan, Lindsey 11 0 3
Thompson, Taylor 9 0 2
Carly Bonne 10 0 2
Katie Letourneau 9 0 2
Kayla Coller 9 0 2
Snidarich, Carrie 12 1 4


Goalies GA Save %
Dunnigan 11 .902
Abrahamson 10 .906

[joehockey]

So with captains practice starting Monday here is a look at Hill Murray for 2009-2010 36 girls are in the program trying out down from last year. Can Hill Murray challenge for Section 4AA the old "on any given day rule will apply". It would appear on paper that Stillwater, Roseville and White Bear and even NSP have deeper more experienced teams. HM a great core returning group - they have a tough early schedule that will show quickly where they are - at Stillwater, White Bear, Edina, then at Warroad, Roseau - YIKES! There are more than 8 open positions so lots of excitement across the group. Team lost 5 from graduation (3 F (Harren now at UND, Stumpf now at St. Olaf, Sommer); 1 D (Knajdek now at UConn); 1G (Wentzel), 2 girls who left the school who have been a big part of team last 2 years (1 F (Saad), 1 D (Bruchu) both now playing with Thoroughbreds) and one girl who has decided to focus on softball and has quit hockey (10 F Zepeda). Here is a run down with stats from MGHCA.

Goal - Program has 3 G all are Juniors and Alie McKeever (one of the best in State) returns and has the ability to steal a game from anyone and has looked very strong over the summer and in Elite League this fall - she will have 4 returning D and team should generate goals. Two good back ups to share the load.

11 - McKeever, Alie - G
11-ALFVEBY, CASSIE-G
11-MAGUIRE, ERIN-G

Forwards: - 8 forwards with Varsity HS Experience return.
Unit 1? - If this unit scores 100 goals HM could be tough - if they stay healthy they could.....
12 - Doyle, Melissa 21 G 13 A
10 - Brandt, Hannah 18 G 31 A (U16 NDP one of the top forwards in the state)
11 - Brandt, Marissa 1 G 2 A (only played in first two games due to injury but was an U17 NDP at Large)

Unit 2 & 3 - Some combination of these 5 forwards
12 McDowell, Maggie 7 G 13 A
11 Lund, Margo 22 G 17 A (* At Minihaha Academy - power forward that will add size and scoring to the team)
11 Zarembinski, Taylor 4 G 1 A
10 Heller, Tory 2 G 5 A
10 Fabian, Syd 1 G 2 A

Other Forward Candidates who mostly played JV in 2008-09 - there is talent with in this gourp to play on Varsity regularly or fill in injuries happen (last year HM had significant injuires at F) there are other names who may also come into play. Group will contribute to strong future.
11-CONROY, SHANNON-F
11-FURLONG, AMANDA-F
11-LONG, SADIE-F
11-PELLINO, MEGAN-F
10-FREEBERG, BROOKE-F
10-HAGER, NATALIE-F
9-FREEBERG, PAIGE-F
9-GAVIC, HANNA - F (first year at HM from Hudson, WI played U14 in River Falls last year)
9-COTRONEO, LAUREN - F (played as 8 grader at Woodbury HS mostly JV)
8-BOBROWSKI, SARAH-F

Defense - 4 Returning D who logged a lot of ice time and have good size - Will need to find 2 more D to add to the mix.

12 Pendleton, Maggie 4 G 8 A (Committed to play at Providence College in 2010)
12 Ley, Jac 1 G 10 A (Committed to play D1 soccer in 2010)
12 Dolan, Catie 3 G 4 A (Injuried part of last season but has great attacking skills)
10 Curtis, Mikayla 1 G 1 A

Other D Candidates who mostly played JV in 2008-09 this is a good collection tough to only pick 2 and there may be some other challengers.
10-LINK, BAILEY-D
10-MAGILL, JENNY-D
10-NELSON, BRIDGET-D
9-DWYER, GRACE-D
9-TATE, BROOKLYN-D

Others in program who I am do not know much about:
Eva Adams
Samantha Boyer
Brittney Cussick
Ashton Harrel
Samantha Jermusek
Allison Lorfeld
Cassie Schulze
Nicole Stanton
Gretta Steigoff
Kailee Thompson
Megan Toninato

[Melvin44]

WBL will have a great chance to go far. Of course I'm picking them to go to STATE (seriously). If you haven't noticed I'm kind of a homer. Coach needs to do set the tone early.

#1. Must not allow/tolerate the team to get into the penalty funk! Especially stupid penalties. Averaged 8 a game last year early.

#2. Must have players know their roles and play TEAM hockey.

#3. Improve scoring. 100+ goals.

I have total confidence in him/them.

[OntheEdge]

Hmmm.... Roseville or Stillwater.... Hill Murray?? White Bear?? Cretin???
Its pretty tough to choose among such a strong group. Put me in a corner and I'd have to say... the Ponies will repeat even though, IMO, the Roseville Raiders are the best team on paper.

[Melvin44]

Hmmm.... Roseville or Stillwater.... Hill Murray?? White Bear?? Cretin???
Its pretty tough to choose among such a strong group. Put me in a corner and I'd have to say... the Ponies will repeat even though, IMO, the Raiders are the best team on paper.

How much you wanna bet?

[Bensonmum]

Hmmm.... Roseville or Stillwater.... Hill Murray?? White Bear?? Cretin???
Its pretty tough to choose among such a strong group. Put me in a corner and I'd have to say... the Ponies will repeat even though, IMO, the Raiders are the best team on paper.

Hmmm....let's see. Cretin was 5-21 last year. They scored 31 goals. They lost 10 of those goals to the T'Breds, 9 to graduation. Both their varsity goalies graduated. Exactly why are you placing them in a group with 4 teams that will spend most of their time in the state's top ten list?

I'm glad you're picking Stillwater.....

[Silent But Deadly]

Is it the Roseville Raiders?