Minn Hock Closes Boarders

[elliott70]

The only reason they want everything called a tournament is so they can make their money off of the hosting teams with a tourny fee. It all comes down to the $$$.

Greybeard, Elliot

Is this the bottom line?

Yes/No
It is if you want to be safe. If you want to take a chance and hope no one finds out (not too likely with it being here - lots of people read but dont post).

What happens with the sanction process?
Depends on who yuo are looking at - I can answer for MN although I am not the person who would be involved. Edina & Wayzata - probably a $200 to $500 fine and potentioally no post-season play. Head coach woudl get a suspension for a certain period of time.

Is there a fee to MN hockey or USA Hockey required to sanction a tournament?
The Somerset thing is a WI thing - their fee??? I dont know.
USAH fee I beleive would be $50 (maybe $100 but I dont do the sanctioning - some big oaf up in Roso does that for our district.

[elliott70]

This whole topic is Laurel and Hardy

Disagree. I find this high level stuff much more intriguing. It's about whether USAH/MNH can/should/do offer/enforce rules/suggestions. I'm sure there'll be plenty of upcoming discussion on who is the best 97 goalie, or who has the best pretzel with cheese, or why New Ulm doesn't get any respect.

In the meantime, I enjoy contemplating: Roseau and Rochester don't get to play each other very often, so they agree to meet in St Cloud for a scrimmage. St Cloud hears about it and thinks, "Hey, Roseau and Rochester will both be here, and we don't get to play them very often", so they rearrange some practice time to play them while they're in town. Uh-oh...tournament!!! Where is the common sense in that?

I think this excahnge is great...
It gives people the chance to speak without worrying about anyone getting pissed at them....

AND it gets information out there and very quickly find out if some rule is overdone...

The pendulum swings....

The above example is right...
3 teams together for a Saturday should not be a tournament....
but when that becomes 6 should there or should there not be some sort of control...

Tournament registration evolved because of complaints from MH membership...
(money became part of it somewhere along the line - Ihave continued to vote agains tincrease inwhat MH charges)
I believe the amount generated to MH is about $80,000 - no idea what USAH fees are generated.

[O-townClown]

But an Edina person saw something she did not like and called teh MH VP of tournaments and complained....

Thanks for the explanation. This makes as much sense as moving the girls state HS tournament to a venue with seating for more than 10 times who will show.

Oh wait, that happened!?

Any idea what this person didn't like?

[elliott70]

But an Edina person saw something she did not like and called teh MH VP of tournaments and complained....

Thanks for the explanation. This makes as much sense as moving the girls state HS tournament to a venue with seating for more than 10 times who will show.

Oh wait, that happened!?

Any idea what this person didn't like?

I don't remember (not sure I ever knew).
Perhaps it was the schedule of who they had to play...
it was not a typical single elim or pool play event...

[InigoMontoya]

My cousin told me that she was upset about Edina losing the hotdog eating contest because Fargo was pooling orders with Devil's Lake.

(Sorry about that. Someone brought cookies to the office this morning, and I'm a little hyperglycemic.)

[elliott70]

My cousin told me that she was upset about Edina losing the hotdog eating contest because Fargo was pooling orders with Devil's Lake.

(Sorry about that. Someone brought cookies to the office this morning, and I'm a little hyperglycemic.)

I thought the biggest 'hot dogs' were always from Edina.

[buttend]

Scrimmage Scores from this morning.

Wayzata 3
97 Fire 1

Edina 6
97 Capitals 5

Both well played fast games

[elliott70]

Scrimmage Scores from this morning.

Wayzata 3
97 Fire 1

Edina 6
97 Capitals 5

Both well played fast games

Looks like the WI teams are just good ol' MN A teams.
Not some feared Tier I AAA monsters.

[buttend]

Scrimmage Scores from this morning.

Wayzata 3
97 Fire 1

Edina 6
97 Capitals 5

Both well played fast games

Evening Scrimmages

97 Capitals 8
Wayzata 5


97 Fire 5
Centenial 0

[oholene]

Scrimmage Scores from this morning.

Wayzata 3
97 Fire 1

Edina 6
97 Capitals 5

Both well played fast games

Looks like the WI teams are just good ol' MN A teams.
Not some feared Tier I AAA monsters.

Elliott,

Why would the top MN PWA teams fear the younger 97 teams? I think the only entity that fears Tier I AAA is MN Hockey.

You seem to be in the know. How does Tier I AAA differ from the HPCs as part of USA hockeys ADM? Please give us an update on how MN hockey is embracing the ADM and in particular the HPCs?

[SECoach]

Not to speak for Elliott, but it would not be at the '97 birthyear. Be high performance all you want at 11 or 12, but it's not what builds the pyramid and not what the ADM calls for.

[elliott70]

Scrimmage Scores from this morning.

Wayzata 3
97 Fire 1

Edina 6
97 Capitals 5

Both well played fast games

Looks like the WI teams are just good ol' MN A teams.
Not some feared Tier I AAA monsters.

Elliott,

Why would the top MN PWA teams fear the younger 97 teams? I think the only entity that fears Tier I AAA is MN Hockey.

You seem to be in the know. How does Tier I AAA differ from the HPCs as part of USA hockeys ADM? Please give us an update on how MN hockey is embracing the ADM and in particular the HPCs?

Why would the top MN PWA teams fear the younger 97 teams...

They shouldn't, they should be playing them if ti fits both teams schedules.

I don't know anything about WI Tier I AAA program so I will not comment on that.
MH has a committee that is working with the USAH assigned personnel on how this program will be adapted in MN.
For further info I would suggest attending the winter MH meeting as the committtee said there would be an update at that time.
If I can find out more somehow I will post it here.

[sparkles]

Elliot, you say that the WI teams are just good old MN A teams.
Isn't that the point. MN is blessed to have a system in place for kids to develop and play hockey at all levels.
Other states are not so lucky, Wisconsin included.
Therefore the Tier I system was put in place for teams to be able to compete against one another regardless of where they are from.
Rather than embracing this, MN hockey is doing eberything in its power to prevent good old A teams from out of state from playing against A teams in Minnesota. Explain to me how this is for the kids benefit.
Also, rules are currently being passed by multpile districts to prevent such teams from playing against the FIRE.
I am sure there are good reasons for this but these good reasons do not appear to be for the benefit of the kids. Some Minnesota kids have made a choice to go play for the FIRE and all MN hockey appears to be doing is to prevent these kids from playing against other minnesota kids.
Perhaps these players are getting a chance to play A level hockey when in minnesota they may not have had the chance.
perhaps they are not happy with the politics at their local association (it is real, whether we like it or not).
Perhaps they like the coaches or the many miles they have to travel.
One of the top programs in the whole of the U.S. is housed here in Minnesota SSM. Not sure if they play in their district but I know they play teams from all over the country and Canada, they do not enter the minnesota high school tournament (why?). Every top team in North America wants to play them. Why?
Anyway, I have read many posts and can understand some of the logic, but when you get down to it, it does appear that the decisions against the FIRE are made because of every other reason than what's best for the kids.
I am willing to bet that the Minnesota teams that just played this weekend welcomed good competition for their teams regardless of where they are from.
I truly do apppreciate everything everybody does within MN hockey and just because a few parents and kids choose to go play for the FIRE should not prevent them from being embraced by MN hockey because in all likelihood most of these players will ultimately play for either their association or school within MN at some point.
For MN hockey to allow any district to pass rules/sanctions against an association because they are playing the FIRE is just ignorant.
We all know that within each district there are top teams, mid level teams and teams that struggle, and they are usually the same teams year in year out, to deny the top teams the chance to play against the FIRE when they might be evenly matched appears not to be for the benefit of the kids.
Sorry for the rant but reading these posts with all the BS attached to them does make one wonder who is running the asylum. I don't know the stats are but as anyone ever looked at how many players who have played for the FIRE have gone on to play High School Hockey within Minnesota, College, Juniors, etc. I truly do not know the answer but I bet many have gone on to represent Minnesota. I would like to pose one question, is it really about the kids as I keep hearing from those opposed to Tier I hockey??
Minnesota Hockey should embrace good hockey regardless of where the kids are from, especially if they are from Minnesota!!

[elliott70]

Elliot, you say that the WI teams are just good old MN A teams.
Isn't that the point. MN is blessed to have a system in place for kids to develop and play hockey at all levels.
Other states are not so lucky, Wisconsin included.
Therefore the Tier I system was put in place for teams to be able to compete against one another regardless of where they are from.
Rather than embracing this, MN hockey is doing eberything in its power to prevent good old A teams from out of state from playing against A teams in Minnesota. Explain to me how this is for the kids benefit.

I can't explain it.
That's why these teams are welcome in Dsitrict 16.

Also, rules are currently being passed by multpile districts to prevent such teams from playing against the FIRE.
I am sure there are good reasons for this but these good reasons do not appear to be for the benefit of the kids. Some Minnesota kids have made a choice to go play for the FIRE and all MN hockey appears to be doing is to prevent these kids from playing against other minnesota kids.
Perhaps these players are getting a chance to play A level hockey when in minnesota they may not have had the chance.
perhaps they are not happy with the politics at their local association (it is real, whether we like it or not).
Perhaps they like the coaches or the many miles they have to travel.
One of the top programs in the whole of the U.S. is housed here in Minnesota SSM. Not sure if they play in their district but I know they play teams from all over the country and Canada, they do not enter the minnesota high school tournament (why?). Every top team in North America wants to play them. Why?
Anyway, I have read many posts and can understand some of the logic, but when you get down to it, it does appear that the decisions against the FIRE are made because of every other reason than what's best for the kids.
I am willing to bet that the Minnesota teams that just played this weekend welcomed good competition for their teams regardless of where they are from.
I truly do apppreciate everything everybody does within MN hockey and just because a few parents and kids choose to go play for the FIRE should not prevent them from being embraced by MN hockey because in all likelihood most of these players will ultimately play for either their association or school within MN at some point.
For MN hockey to allow any district to pass rules/sanctions against an association because they are playing the FIRE is just ignorant.
We all know that within each district there are top teams, mid level teams and teams that struggle, and they are usually the same teams year in year out, to deny the top teams the chance to play against the FIRE when they might be evenly matched appears not to be for the benefit of the kids.
Sorry for the rant but reading these posts with all the BS attached to them does make one wonder who is running the asylum. I don't know the stats are but as anyone ever looked at how many players who have played for the FIRE have gone on to play High School Hockey within Minnesota, College, Juniors, etc. I truly do not know the answer but I bet many have gone on to represent Minnesota. I would like to pose one question, is it really about the kids as I keep hearing from those opposed to Tier I hockey??
Minnesota Hockey should embrace good hockey regardless of where the kids are from, especially if they are from Minnesota!!

Again, the Fire are welcome to play in District 16.
All teams are - if they are properly registered.
The scores just indicate that those teams should be playing in MN as they are as I said - just good ol' MN A teams (even if they have a WI kid or two or ten or 15)
(notice when I get above ten I get lazy)

[ThePuckStopsHere]

Elliot, you say that the WI teams are just good old MN A teams.
Isn't that the point. MN is blessed to have a system in place for kids to develop and play hockey at all levels.
Other states are not so lucky, Wisconsin included.
Therefore the Tier I system was put in place for teams to be able to compete against one another regardless of where they are from.
Rather than embracing this, MN hockey is doing eberything in its power to prevent good old A teams from out of state from playing against A teams in Minnesota. Explain to me how this is for the kids benefit.
Also, rules are currently being passed by multpile districts to prevent such teams from playing against the FIRE.
I am sure there are good reasons for this but these good reasons do not appear to be for the benefit of the kids. Some Minnesota kids have made a choice to go play for the FIRE and all MN hockey appears to be doing is to prevent these kids from playing against other minnesota kids.
Perhaps these players are getting a chance to play A level hockey when in minnesota they may not have had the chance.
perhaps they are not happy with the politics at their local association (it is real, whether we like it or not).
Perhaps they like the coaches or the many miles they have to travel.
One of the top programs in the whole of the U.S. is housed here in Minnesota SSM. Not sure if they play in their district but I know they play teams from all over the country and Canada, they do not enter the minnesota high school tournament (why?). Every top team in North America wants to play them. Why?
Anyway, I have read many posts and can understand some of the logic, but when you get down to it, it does appear that the decisions against the FIRE are made because of every other reason than what's best for the kids.
I am willing to bet that the Minnesota teams that just played this weekend welcomed good competition for their teams regardless of where they are from.
I truly do apppreciate everything everybody does within MN hockey and just because a few parents and kids choose to go play for the FIRE should not prevent them from being embraced by MN hockey because in all likelihood most of these players will ultimately play for either their association or school within MN at some point.
For MN hockey to allow any district to pass rules/sanctions against an association because they are playing the FIRE is just ignorant.
We all know that within each district there are top teams, mid level teams and teams that struggle, and they are usually the same teams year in year out, to deny the top teams the chance to play against the FIRE when they might be evenly matched appears not to be for the benefit of the kids.
Sorry for the rant but reading these posts with all the BS attached to them does make one wonder who is running the asylum. I don't know the stats are but as anyone ever looked at how many players who have played for the FIRE have gone on to play High School Hockey within Minnesota, College, Juniors, etc. I truly do not know the answer but I bet many have gone on to represent Minnesota. I would like to pose one question, is it really about the kids as I keep hearing from those opposed to Tier I hockey??
Minnesota Hockey should embrace good hockey regardless of where the kids are from, especially if they are from Minnesota!!

Wow I now have my reading minutes in for the rest of the year

You Ask: Is it about the kids?

Get real with that question, I would bet my house your kid didn't approach you and say hey I should go play for the Fire, rather it was you the parent thought association was not good enough for you so you moved him, now its hypocritical of you to complain they can't play Minnesota teams.

It's real simple if you want to play Minnesota Association teams play with your Association, otherwise book a ticket to Chicago.

[yeahyeahyeah]

Elliot, you say that the WI teams are just good old MN A teams.
Isn't that the point. MN is blessed to have a system in place for kids to develop and play hockey at all levels.
Other states are not so lucky, Wisconsin included.
Therefore the Tier I system was put in place for teams to be able to compete against one another regardless of where they are from.
Rather than embracing this, MN hockey is doing eberything in its power to prevent good old A teams from out of state from playing against A teams in Minnesota. Explain to me how this is for the kids benefit.
Also, rules are currently being passed by multpile districts to prevent such teams from playing against the FIRE.
I am sure there are good reasons for this but these good reasons do not appear to be for the benefit of the kids. Some Minnesota kids have made a choice to go play for the FIRE and all MN hockey appears to be doing is to prevent these kids from playing against other minnesota kids.
Perhaps these players are getting a chance to play A level hockey when in minnesota they may not have had the chance.
perhaps they are not happy with the politics at their local association (it is real, whether we like it or not).
Perhaps they like the coaches or the many miles they have to travel.
One of the top programs in the whole of the U.S. is housed here in Minnesota SSM. Not sure if they play in their district but I know they play teams from all over the country and Canada, they do not enter the minnesota high school tournament (why?). Every top team in North America wants to play them. Why?
Anyway, I have read many posts and can understand some of the logic, but when you get down to it, it does appear that the decisions against the FIRE are made because of every other reason than what's best for the kids.
I am willing to bet that the Minnesota teams that just played this weekend welcomed good competition for their teams regardless of where they are from.
I truly do apppreciate everything everybody does within MN hockey and just because a few parents and kids choose to go play for the FIRE should not prevent them from being embraced by MN hockey because in all likelihood most of these players will ultimately play for either their association or school within MN at some point.
For MN hockey to allow any district to pass rules/sanctions against an association because they are playing the FIRE is just ignorant.
We all know that within each district there are top teams, mid level teams and teams that struggle, and they are usually the same teams year in year out, to deny the top teams the chance to play against the FIRE when they might be evenly matched appears not to be for the benefit of the kids.
Sorry for the rant but reading these posts with all the BS attached to them does make one wonder who is running the asylum. I don't know the stats are but as anyone ever looked at how many players who have played for the FIRE have gone on to play High School Hockey within Minnesota, College, Juniors, etc. I truly do not know the answer but I bet many have gone on to represent Minnesota. I would like to pose one question, is it really about the kids as I keep hearing from those opposed to Tier I hockey??
Minnesota Hockey should embrace good hockey regardless of where the kids are from, especially if they are from Minnesota!!

No offense to the FIRE but the rules of MN hockey are in place and developed for ALL the kids not just a select few whose parents have convinced their children that the Fire is where they "want" to be. The rules are in place to protect Association hockey, you know, the most successful youth hockey structure in the USA. When you ask, "Who are the rules written for?" understand that the rules are in place to protect the very foundation/stucture that gave your kid his start in this wonderful game. The stucture that probably helped him/her develop a desire for the sport.
Just because you have decided that FIRE is where the dream can be lived out don't expect MN hockey or your association to alter the rules so you can make your life simpler (closer games and opponents).
Pretty simple really, now let's change the direction of this post and address someting that is REALLY important, just who IS the best MITE team in the state?

[elliott70]

Elliot, you say that the WI teams are just good old MN A teams.
Isn't that the point. MN is blessed to have a system in place for kids to develop and play hockey at all levels.
Other states are not so lucky, Wisconsin included.
Therefore the Tier I system was put in place for teams to be able to compete against one another regardless of where they are from.
Rather than embracing this, MN hockey is doing eberything in its power to prevent good old A teams from out of state from playing against A teams in Minnesota. Explain to me how this is for the kids benefit.
Also, rules are currently being passed by multpile districts to prevent such teams from playing against the FIRE.
I am sure there are good reasons for this but these good reasons do not appear to be for the benefit of the kids. Some Minnesota kids have made a choice to go play for the FIRE and all MN hockey appears to be doing is to prevent these kids from playing against other minnesota kids.
Perhaps these players are getting a chance to play A level hockey when in minnesota they may not have had the chance.
perhaps they are not happy with the politics at their local association (it is real, whether we like it or not).
Perhaps they like the coaches or the many miles they have to travel.
One of the top programs in the whole of the U.S. is housed here in Minnesota SSM. Not sure if they play in their district but I know they play teams from all over the country and Canada, they do not enter the minnesota high school tournament (why?). Every top team in North America wants to play them. Why?
Anyway, I have read many posts and can understand some of the logic, but when you get down to it, it does appear that the decisions against the FIRE are made because of every other reason than what's best for the kids.
I am willing to bet that the Minnesota teams that just played this weekend welcomed good competition for their teams regardless of where they are from.
I truly do apppreciate everything everybody does within MN hockey and just because a few parents and kids choose to go play for the FIRE should not prevent them from being embraced by MN hockey because in all likelihood most of these players will ultimately play for either their association or school within MN at some point.
For MN hockey to allow any district to pass rules/sanctions against an association because they are playing the FIRE is just ignorant.
We all know that within each district there are top teams, mid level teams and teams that struggle, and they are usually the same teams year in year out, to deny the top teams the chance to play against the FIRE when they might be evenly matched appears not to be for the benefit of the kids.
Sorry for the rant but reading these posts with all the BS attached to them does make one wonder who is running the asylum. I don't know the stats are but as anyone ever looked at how many players who have played for the FIRE have gone on to play High School Hockey within Minnesota, College, Juniors, etc. I truly do not know the answer but I bet many have gone on to represent Minnesota. I would like to pose one question, is it really about the kids as I keep hearing from those opposed to Tier I hockey??
Minnesota Hockey should embrace good hockey regardless of where the kids are from, especially if they are from Minnesota!!

No offense to the FIRE but the rules of MN hockey are in place and developed for ALL the kids not just a select few whose parents have convinced their children that the Fire is where they "want" to be. The rules are in place to protect Association hockey, you know, the most successful youth hockey structure in the USA. When you ask, "Who are the rules written for?" understand that the rules are in place to protect the very foundation/stucture that gave your kid his start in this wonderful game. The stucture that probably helped him/her develop a desire for the sport.
Just because you have decided that FIRE is where the dream can be lived out don't expect MN hockey or your association to alter the rules so you can make your life simpler (closer games and opponents).
Pretty simple really, now let's change the direction of this post and address someting that is REALLY important, just who IS the best MITE team in the state?

There is a bunch of 7 year-olds in Oslo that skate and shoot pretty well!

[mr.mouth]

ThePuckStopsHere JUST LOST HIS HOUSE! What a dumb mule bet! I had you mistaken for someone who knew the kids.

[GreekChurch]

Sparkles, with that kind of reasoning, why doesn't every kid who's not on a Mega association team, with no chance to win state just get to play on their AAA team all year playing all the association A teams? The reason is it would be the death of Association hockey ( which some would favor) and it would be a free for all with kids, and parents running from one team to another - complete madness. Then the complaint would be that there are really only a few credible AAA teams - with the others not belonging. It appears to me it would be Association hockey inder a new name ( AAA ) You would still have the have's and have not's - just more travel. I personally don't care who the Fire plays, but I understand Districts trying to protect the institution of Association hockey from the A teams down to the C's

[Bruins]

Hey ThePuckStopsHere (TPSH), I dont think you understand. The larger associations WANT to play the Fire and the Fire WANTS to play them. Ask any coach in town from a big assoc and see what they say. I have yet to hear a reason why for example Edina, Wayzata, Woodbury or others can not play the Fire. Thats because there is no valid reason. Remember these associations want to play the Fire and other strong AAA teams. I would love to hear a reason, just one. MN hockey is clearly out of touch. (TPSH) you must be a newbie to competitve hockey, settle down.

[Pucksahater]

You come on these threads to spread your word of hate, you must have a miserable outlook on life. We have seen this type of hate before, when your moniker used to be Judge & Jury. Please do not deny this fact, when J&J was bashing mm over the Stars and Stripes tourney you said nothing. Actually you were saying alot as j&j, look what you did to your kid and you come on here and act like you have all the answers. You were the reason your kid got cut from the minn wisc elite team. Its time to get a different moniker again.

[play4fun]

OK, I am really confused here. Have to admit that people who know me will not be shocked by that admission. Why would a district want to restrict who teams in their district can play? Are people like MM and the Fire that big of a threat or is it a case of people not wanting to change? If the Fire team and MM teams come loaded for bear and there are always fights in the stands and on the ice and their older brothers are out in the parking lots breaking into cars when they are around I can understand that and would agree, nobody needs that. OTOH, if they are mad because they are losing a couple of kids here and there to either team then I think they need to get over it, hockey loses kids to basketball, wrestling, the PS3 and etc all the time, kids move on, so what. BUT, if these districts are losing lots of kids or the really talented kids to the Fire teams and/or the MM teams then shouldn't that be a red flag to the district? If your top talent is leaving for a competitor (whether it is in youth hockey, car sales people, bankers, scientists, etc) then there has to be a reason. What is the reason? Wouldn't it make sense to find out what the problem is and fix it or at least try to fix it? If it can't be fixed for what ever reason then you have decided to live with the problem since it is "unfixable" and then it circles back to why would they want to restrict their kids from playing another group of kids from whom they can learn and get better?

NPC -- you have lot's of good logical questions. However, this isn't about making associations work to become better, it's about power and parents' egos.

It's about the few who will do everything in their power to deny others from achieving an "unfair" advantage -- and the few who will do everthing in their power to achieve that advantage. Back and forth we go. But it's occasionally worth a laugh for the rest of us reading these strings.

Even if you take the Fire and MM out of the equation and eliminate the threat of change for MH, the bored will just go back to attacking others, like Edina. It's always easier to attack someone else rather than figure out how to compete? (Ironic isn't it, since that's what we're trying to teach the kids? How to compete with the talents they have?)

[elliott70]

OK, I am really confused here. Have to admit that people who know me will not be shocked by that admission. Why would a district want to restrict who teams in their district can play? Are people like MM and the Fire that big of a threat or is it a case of people not wanting to change? If the Fire team and MM teams come loaded for bear and there are always fights in the stands and on the ice and their older brothers are out in the parking lots breaking into cars when they are around I can understand that and would agree, nobody needs that. OTOH, if they are mad because they are losing a couple of kids here and there to either team then I think they need to get over it, hockey loses kids to basketball, wrestling, the PS3 and etc all the time, kids move on, so what. BUT, if these districts are losing lots of kids or the really talented kids to the Fire teams and/or the MM teams then shouldn't that be a red flag to the district? If your top talent is leaving for a competitor (whether it is in youth hockey, car sales people, bankers, scientists, etc) then there has to be a reason. What is the reason? Wouldn't it make sense to find out what the problem is and fix it or at least try to fix it? If it can't be fixed for what ever reason then you have decided to live with the problem since it is "unfixable" and then it circles back to why would they want to restrict their kids from playing another group of kids from whom they can learn and get better?

Minnesota Made is not a sanctioned organization.
No USAH sanctioned team can participate in any event with them.
Right, wrong or something in between - it is a clear and simple rule.

The Fire and other teams come down to interpretation of a rule - is a team playing in another classification.

[ThePuckStopsHere]

You come on these threads to spread your word of hate, you must have a miserable outlook on life. We have seen this type of hate before, when your moniker used to be Judge & Jury. Please do not deny this fact, when J&J was bashing mm over the Stars and Stripes tourney you said nothing. Actually you were saying alot as j&j, look what you did to your kid and you come on here and act like you have all the answers. You were the reason your kid got cut from the minn wisc elite team. Its time to get a different moniker again.

Sorry you will have to guess again, I'm not J&J.

Let me guess something about you, I bet you wear your deer hunting suit 12 months a year

[Pucksahater]

Its over puck you have been outed again, you give nothing of substance in any of your posts. Judge and Jury, The puck stops here sounds like those 2 monikers comes from the same warped mind.