Minn Hock Closes Boarders

[SECoach]

It's really quite simple. Minnesota Hockey believes in and is protecting our community based hockey model. Part of that model excludes "all-star" teams, particularly at young ages. Agree or disagree but that is part of the model that most believe has been quite successful. When a team such as the Fire is built on Minnesota players, that then want to come back and play community based teams, many have a problem with that. It's really that simple. I can see how it would not make sense to someone outstate as they do not likely have players leaving their squirt or pee wee programs for these teams. I believe in our model of community based hockey. I think those that don't are probably newbies, with a few exceptions. Arrogant maybe, but.....that's me. To fight the efforts to make our program the failure that others have is a battle we will continue to fight.

[muckandgrind]

Am I missing something here? Edina, Wayzata, and other strong metro teams are, and have been, playing the Fire for a few years now...I guess I'm not understanding all the hullabaloo. Last season, the 98 Fire played in a Brooklyn Park tournament, possibly a few others as well. Is there a proposal out there that would prevent them from playing them in the future? If so, can anyone provide a link to a source?

[sparkles]

Agree with the earlier post regarding what happens if everybody decides they want to leave. That is a problem, however unlikely with the current structure. As it stands every player in Minnesota can go try-out for the FIRE. The club holds try--outs and it is open to everyone registered with USA hockey. So there is nothing to stop everyone from doing it.
Why is Shattuck allowed to be the one and only exception in the Minnesota High school league? I don't know the answer but assume there is some legitimate reason, but what stops other schools from doing the same. Does anyone ever wonder why some of the top Canadien players come to Shattuck but you never hear of any of them coming to Edina, Eden Prairie, etc.
Many on here are quick to say if you let this slide or that slide then the whole system will fall apart. I don't think most of the FIRE parents think the system is broke, but just wanted to have their kids play with friends, for coaches they like, somewhere that offers something different.(not better, just different)
What is the point of not letting teams play the FIRE. However when someone comes to Minnesota hockey and suggests that TWO(only Two) schools can have Bantam teams, that is a great idea and passed. Oh then it gets rescinded because too many other issues arise from this.
The reason is because the control of Minnesota hockey currently in the hands of people who believe they know best and that only they can pass any rules. How about a vote. Perhaps a district director should ask his coaches whether they wish to play againast the FIRE.
How about embrace something that is different and if it isn't good as with everything else it will die a slow death. If it is succesful, look at what they do and try to incorporate it around the rest of the state.
I can hear you now, yeah but all the best players will leave to play, etc etc. please explain the difference betwwen AAA and A. The truth is the only difference is two A's.
Also, kids should play with their friends, etc. How many of you have a kid who is very good and always make the A team during his first year. Okay, now how many of you tell the coach thanks but no thanks Billy or johnny wants to play B to be with his friends. I thought so.
Again, aren't we trying to do what is best for the kids not the parents.

[elliott70]

Agree with the earlier post regarding what happens if everybody decides they want to leave. That is a problem, however unlikely with the current structure. As it stands every player in Minnesota can go try-out for the FIRE. The club holds try--outs and it is open to everyone registered with USA hockey. So there is nothing to stop everyone from doing it.
Why is Shattuck allowed to be the one and only exception in the Minnesota High school league? I don't know the answer but assume there is some legitimate reason, but what stops other schools from doing the same. Does anyone ever wonder why some of the top Canadien players come to Shattuck but you never hear of any of them coming to Edina, Eden Prairie, etc.
Many on here are quick to say if you let this slide or that slide then the whole system will fall apart. I don't think most of the FIRE parents think the system is broke, but just wanted to have their kids play with friends, for coaches they like, somewhere that offers something different.(not better, just different)
What is the point of not letting teams play the FIRE. However when someone comes to Minnesota hockey and suggests that TWO(only Two) schools can have Bantam teams, that is a great idea and passed. Oh then it gets rescinded because too many other issues arise from this.
The reason is because the control of Minnesota hockey currently in the hands of people who believe they know best and that only they can pass any rules. How about a vote. Perhaps a district director should ask his coaches whether they wish to play againast the FIRE.
How about embrace something that is different and if it isn't good as with everything else it will die a slow death. If it is succesful, look at what they do and try to incorporate it around the rest of the state.
I can hear you now, yeah but all the best players will leave to play, etc etc. please explain the difference betwwen AAA and A. The truth is the only difference is two A's.
Also, kids should play with their friends, etc. How many of you have a kid who is very good and always make the A team during his first year. Okay, now how many of you tell the coach thanks but no thanks Billy or johnny wants to play B to be with his friends. I thought so.
Again, aren't we trying to do what is best for the kids not the parents.

I am not sure I understand what you are saying....
Sahttuck elects not to join the MSHSL. They play under USAH rules. Minnesota Hockey has allowed them to be a limited affiliate of MH.
I was not part of that debate so I cannot give any insight on it.

[SECoach]

I didn't mean to imply that there is a Minnesota Hockey rule preventing teams from playing the Fire. We don't play them. Many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels. You might feel differently if you lived in an area where it is common for players to leave and play for the Fire. To me it's no different than a kid saying he wants to play in Edina rather than chaska and not bothering to get a waiver. Again, you might feel differently if it's in your back yard. Madison Capitals? Some team from Colorado? No problem. They aren't a team built on disgruntled parents who think they have found a way around our "member supported" community based program.

As to sparkles.....nice rant. I'm slow and old but i'm having a hard time tying your thoughts together.

[elliott70]

Am I missing something here? Edina, Wayzata, and other strong metro teams are, and have been, playing the Fire for a few years now...I guess I'm not understanding all the hullabaloo. Last season, the 98 Fire played in a Brooklyn Park tournament, possibly a few others as well. Is there a proposal out there that would prevent them from playing them in the future? If so, can anyone provide a link to a source?

The reason being provided is that the rule is you have to play against like classified teams without permission of the District Director.
Invitational tournaments are very clear onthis and you cannot play even with DD approval.

The question with out of state teams (and out of country) where does your classification fit into the MH system of labeling teams. Sometimes it is difficult to tell just how out of state teams fit.
We need to use our best judgement.
Some in MH have taken the stance that a nonclassified or a Tier I team is not of the same calibar as an A team in Minnesota.

District 16 uses a different approach. We in conjunctin with the local associations and coaches determine if a Canadian team (as an example) should be coming to an East Grand Forks A or B level tournament. We have an open conversation and try to determine in advance where our guests will best fit.

We believe the local association has the right to play who they want - play the Fire, don't play the Fire.
(Providing they are properly registered by WI, Central District and USAH).
Invite who you want to a tournament (as long as they are in the proper classification or the proper work has gone into placing them in advance of the tournament if they have a diifferent system of labeling teams.)

It is easy to understand and sympathize with those that have player(s) leaving to a different program - but if the program follows the rules, then so be it.

[ThePuckStopsHere]

Its over puck you have been outed again, you give nothing of substance in any of your posts. Judge and Jury, The puck stops here sounds like those 2 monikers comes from the same warped mind.

Yep its over you got me I'm Judge & Jury, I'm the Man in the Grassy Noel, I Shot JR, The Missing Link, Santa, Easter Bunny and your Wifes Best Friend when your out of Town

[Community Based]

No child, without help from a parent, ever asked to go play with the Fire.

One thing missing from this discussion is that community based youth hockey associations depend entirely on volunteers to build and maintain their organizations. Potentially it's the parents the assocations need to continue to grow and strengthen themselves, not the players.

People, we're volunteer run and the community association depends on your ideas and leadership to grow and prosper. Roll up your sleeves, be a good citizen and support your community based hockey association. It's easy to leave. Don't take the easy road and bail. Sorry, but there's actually some life lessons here that the parents may have missed. Help recruit 5 and 6 year old players so the younger families in your association don't face the indecision you did.

Blaine is dirt.

[play4fun]

No child, without help from a parent, ever asked to go play with the Fire.

One thing missing from this discussion is that community based youth hockey associations depend entirely on volunteers to build and maintain their organizations. Potentially it's the parents the assocations need to continue to grow and strengthen themselves, not the players.

People, we're volunteer run and the community association depends on your ideas and leadership to grow and prosper. Roll up your sleeves, be a good citizen and support your community based hockey association. It's easy to leave. Don't take the easy road and bail. Sorry, but there's actually some life lessons here that the parents may have missed. Help recruit 5 and 6 year old players so the younger families in your association don't face the indecision you did.

Blaine is dirt.

Way to be positive and promote local associations and volunteers... right up to the point where you blasted 50,000+ minnesota residents of Blaine.

You need a better filter for some of your comments if you want to be taken seriously on the rest.

[yeahyeahyeah]

No child, without help from a parent, ever asked to go play with the Fire.

One thing missing from this discussion is that community based youth hockey associations depend entirely on volunteers to build and maintain their organizations. Potentially it's the parents the assocations need to continue to grow and strengthen themselves, not the players.

People, we're volunteer run and the community association depends on your ideas and leadership to grow and prosper. Roll up your sleeves, be a good citizen and support your community based hockey association. It's easy to leave. Don't take the easy road and bail. Sorry, but there's actually some life lessons here that the parents may have missed. Help recruit 5 and 6 year old players so the younger families in your association don't face the indecision you did.

Blaine is dirt.

Blaine is not dirt but it is peat and sod! haha. Not sure where the Blaine is dirt came from but I do have something to add to your post. Rolling up sleeves is also known as WORK! That is the bad version of a 4 letter word to most. Based on my experiences there are too many people that would rather cut a check than Roll up their sleeves. These people would not know what it is like to go out and do the work necessary to improve a community based organization or even go pack a box of dry goods for starving children......

"Can't I just write a check and have someone else pack the food? I have tickets to the Ordway/Wild/Gophers tonight".

I and many other volunteers have put in THOUSANDS of hours for our local association. Can association hockey be better? Yes. Do I have the ability to make it better? I think so but my volunteer hours are maxed out, people like me need help. For those of you reading this who think the association jacket is the wrong color or style, the ice time is too late, the rink is too far away, the cost is too high, there is not enough ice time, your team does not play enough games, your team plays too many games, your coach is too strict, your coach is too lenient, you don't like selling Pizzas or any other of the thousands of complaints we as hockey parents have; do yourself and your association a favor and ask the board where you can help instead of showing up at the next board meeting and griping about your problem....you never know you might just find a way to improve the things you have issues with.

Oh if helping out is not an option, there is always the FIRE and while you are there enjoy the Ordway. But do not come crawling to me because your closest opponent for scrimmage is 200 miles away.

For the record I am ok with Blaine and its 50,000 inhabitants.....why wouldn't I be they do have the super rink after all.

[Bruins]

That was very touching BlahBlahBlah or was it YeahYeahYeah, I guess it makes no difference. "write a check and have someonelse pack the food", " If helping out is not an option play for the fire", very classy. I had a tear in my eye till I got to those great quotes. Heres one for you, Edina 18 Apple Valley 0, what a game! I heard one Edina kid may have hurt himself though, after his 11th goal his rotator cuff blew out from arm pumping so hard. Are you kidding me? This is why you hate the Fire? Remember, Edina, Wayzata, and other big guns want to play the Fire. The Fire is not begging them. Good teams like to play good teams period.

[ACTUALFORMERPLAYER]

This is really good and funny reading for us outstaters. The funniest part is how some of the people ripping the Fire are going to send their kids to Hill, CDH, Breck, or Holy Angels instead of playing for the local public school.

If 2 kids leave your program for the Fire it provides an opportunity for two other kids to step up and develop their skills at a higher level. If those two kids were going to go to a private anyway it helps your program by developing kids that are staying. If they are planning on returning to your program for high school your high school just got some added depth. As an outstater looking in, this is a great opportunity for programs to develop more kids. The only problem I see is egomaniac coaches thinking a district peewee title might propel them into an assistant job with the Wild.

[yeahyeahyeah]

That was very touching BlahBlahBlah or was it YeahYeahYeah, I guess it makes no difference. "write a check and have someonelse pack the food", " If helping out is not an option play for the fire", very classy. I had a tear in my eye till I got to those great quotes. Heres one for you, Edina 18 Apple Valley 0, what a game! I heard one Edina kid may have hurt himself though, after his 11th goal his rotator cuff blew out from arm pumping so hard. Are you kidding me? This is why you hate the Fire? Remember, Edina, Wayzata, and other big guns want to play the Fire. The Fire is not begging them. Good teams like to play good teams period.

The point is the people that are the most passionate need to contribute otherwise your board (and the state board) will be made up of people that do not know anything about hockey. From the sound of it, the people that head for the Fire know a lot about hockey and thus they are wasting all of their years of hockey knowledge instead of putting it to good use. I do not hate the fire at all.
Maybe Edina should do what is right and have multiple EVENLY developed A teams. I am sure this comment will spur on the age old argument that high level Edina B players are not good enough for the top kids.....Blablahblah

You would rather the entire state change just for you. Go to the kitchen and cut yourself another piece of cake.

[council member retired]

[quote="ACTUALFORMERPLAYER"]This is really good and funny reading for us outstaters. The funniest part is how some of the people ripping the Fire are going to send their kids to Hill, CDH, Breck, or Holy Angels instead of playing for the local public school.

If 2 kids leave your program for the Fire it provides an opportunity for two other kids to step up and develop their skills at a higher level. If those two kids were going to go to a private anyway it helps your program by developing kids that are staying. If they are planning on returning to your program for high school your high school just got some added depth. As an outstater looking in, this is a great opportunity for programs to develop more kids. The only problem I see is egomaniac coaches thinking a district peewee title might propel them into an assistant job with the Wild.[/quote]


I haven't read the posts the same way as you have. I have seen good discussion, strong opinion, on the governing bodies of Minnesota and USA hockey current position on whom team participate against. It has been a very good post

[GMANDAD]

I didn't mean to imply that there is a Minnesota Hockey rule preventing teams from playing the Fire. We don't play them. Many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels. You might feel differently if you lived in an area where it is common for players to leave and play for the Fire. To me it's no different than a kid saying he wants to play in Edina rather than chaska and not bothering to get a waiver. Again, you might feel differently if it's in your back yard. Madison Capitals? Some team from Colorado? No problem. They aren't a team built on disgruntled parents who think they have found a way around our "member supported" community based program.

As to sparkles.....nice rant. I'm slow and old but i'm having a hard time tying your thoughts together.

SECoach your joking right about the above sentence in red. Your hatred partially stems from the waiver process? Please explain the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire. I would love to hear your opinion on waivers in regards to the Minnesota Made Choice League. In addition if my kid decides to play basketball does he need a waiver as well?

SECoach with rational like this, why don't you step forward and except your Nobel Peace Prize.

[wannagototherink]

I'm sorry but can someone explain the rule to me? I guess with all the personal comments I'm somewhat confused with who can play who and where teams can and cannot play.

Is this a MH rule or is it left up to the individual Districts?

Is this just limited to the Fire?

Can Minnesota teams play in tournaments like the one at Shattuck where these teams are playing?

What about Tournaments like Edina and the Spirit of Duluth, I know Edina usually has teams from Colorado, Alaska...Duluth has Teams like Grafton and Marquette? Are these teams "legal" and why?

I'm sure somewhere in this conveluted mess of rants lies the answers to my questions but I'm having a hard time decyphering what is fact and what is fiction. Elliott can you shed some light?

[O-townClown]

This is really good and funny reading for us outstaters.

And here's the part that I respect about you, AFP. Others from the north have acted like these issues don't exist because they don't exist where you live. You realize that the outstate doesn't face these challenges, but others do.

[SECoach]

I didn't mean to imply that there is a Minnesota Hockey rule preventing teams from playing the Fire. We don't play them. Many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels. You might feel differently if you lived in an area where it is common for players to leave and play for the Fire. To me it's no different than a kid saying he wants to play in Edina rather than chaska and not bothering to get a waiver. Again, you might feel differently if it's in your back yard. Madison Capitals? Some team from Colorado? No problem. They aren't a team built on disgruntled parents who think they have found a way around our "member supported" community based program.

As to sparkles.....nice rant. I'm slow and old but i'm having a hard time tying your thoughts together.

SECoach your joking right about the above sentence in red. Your hatred partially stems from the waiver process? Please explain the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire. I would love to hear your opinion on waivers in regards to the Minnesota Made Choice League. In addition if my kid decides to play basketball does he need a waiver as well?

SECoach with rational like this, why don't you step forward and except your Nobel Peace Prize.

Hatred?...just having a conversation here. . Does that help? As i said, we choose not to play them. When the basketball team becomes an affiliate member of USA Hockey then yes, they would need a waiver. No waiver needed to play at Minnesota Made, as they are not an affiliate member of USA Hockey. People are free to create their own organization, such as Minnesota Made and make their own rules. This does not apply to the Fire as they are, through Wisconsen Hockey, and affiliate member of USA Hockey.

[spin-o-rama]

I didn't mean to imply that there is a Minnesota Hockey rule preventing teams from playing the Fire. We don't play them. Many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels. You might feel differently if you lived in an area where it is common for players to leave and play for the Fire. To me it's no different than a kid saying he wants to play in Edina rather than chaska and not bothering to get a waiver. Again, you might feel differently if it's in your back yard. Madison Capitals? Some team from Colorado? No problem. They aren't a team built on disgruntled parents who think they have found a way around our "member supported" community based program.

As to sparkles.....nice rant. I'm slow and old but i'm having a hard time tying your thoughts together.

Really? MH can require a waiver to go play with an organization outside of their jurisdiction? You need to reference the USAH rule that states they need a waiver or stop spreading nonsense.

People need to stop the belief that players are owned by the local associations. Blacklisting of players and teams will only create bad feelings. Not what any community model should be about.

[muckandgrind]

No child, without help from a parent, ever asked to go play with the Fire.

I know for a fact that you are 100% wrong with this statement.

[GMANDAD]

I didn't mean to imply that there is a Minnesota Hockey rule preventing teams from playing the Fire. We don't play them. Many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels. You might feel differently if you lived in an area where it is common for players to leave and play for the Fire. To me it's no different than a kid saying he wants to play in Edina rather than chaska and not bothering to get a waiver. Again, you might feel differently if it's in your back yard. Madison Capitals? Some team from Colorado? No problem. They aren't a team built on disgruntled parents who think they have found a way around our "member supported" community based program.

As to sparkles.....nice rant. I'm slow and old but i'm having a hard time tying your thoughts together.

SECoach your joking right about the above sentence in red. Your hatred partially stems from the waiver process? Please explain the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire. I would love to hear your opinion on waivers in regards to the Minnesota Made Choice League. In addition if my kid decides to play basketball does he need a waiver as well?

SECoach with rational like this, why don't you step forward and except your Nobel Peace Prize.

Hatred?...just having a conversation here. . Does that help? As i said, we choose not to play them. When the basketball team becomes an affiliate member of USA Hockey then yes, they would need a waiver. No waiver needed to play at Minnesota Made, as they are not an affiliate member of USA Hockey. People are free to create their own organization, such as Minnesota Made and make their own rules. This does not apply to the Fire as they are, through Wisconsen Hockey, and affiliate member of USA Hockey.

SECoach,

This forum is great, but sometimes individuals just flat out throw something out there that others assume is true.

Since you didn't explain the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire, how would you know many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels?

[elliott70]

I didn't mean to imply that there is a Minnesota Hockey rule preventing teams from playing the Fire. We don't play them. Many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels. You might feel differently if you lived in an area where it is common for players to leave and play for the Fire. To me it's no different than a kid saying he wants to play in Edina rather than chaska and not bothering to get a waiver. Again, you might feel differently if it's in your back yard. Madison Capitals? Some team from Colorado? No problem. They aren't a team built on disgruntled parents who think they have found a way around our "member supported" community based program.

As to sparkles.....nice rant. I'm slow and old but i'm having a hard time tying your thoughts together.

Really? MH can require a waiver to go play with an organization outside of their jurisdiction? You need to reference the USAH rule that states they need a waiver or stop spreading nonsense.

People need to stop the belief that players are owned by the local associations. Blacklisting of players and teams will only create bad feelings. Not what any community model should be about.

USAH, MH & WAHA (Wisconsin) all have rules regarding release or transfer or waivers - moving from one local association to another.

[elliott70]

Part of WI rule.

Players may transfer from one association to another, regardless of classification, only with written consent of the releasing association. No transfers shall be made after Dec. 31. Written consent must be obtained each of the first two years. (Note: Players accepted upon written consent for each of the first two (2) years shall still be considered as being from the association serving their place of residence and as out-of-district on the roster of the accepting association). After obtaining written consent for each of the first two (2) years, the player shall be considered as being from the transferred-to association and will no longer require a written release from the association serving their place of residence. Note: these skaters shall not be considered as out-of-district on the roster of the accepting association going forward.) Any team accepting more than two (2) players from another WAHA certified association would not be eligible for State Tournament play. For Example: Team A accepts one (1) player under rule G-1 and two (2) players under rule H. (Players transferring from an association classified as “AAA” or “Unclassified” must return to the association serving their place of residence unless they meet all obligations covered in these by-laws. [Note: A player who transfers from a team/association classified as “AAA” or “Unclassified” and does not return to the association serving their place of residence must obtain all written releases from both the team/association last played on and the association serving their place of residence, as specified in these by-laws.])

[elliott70]

I'm sorry but can someone explain the rule to me? I guess with all the personal comments I'm somewhat confused with who can play who and where teams can and cannot play.

Is this a MH rule or is it left up to the individual Districts?

SEE BELOW

Is this just limited to the Fire?

THEY ARE CLASSIFIED AS 'UNCLASSIFIED' I BELIEVE BUT DO NOT KNOW.

Can Minnesota teams play in tournaments like the one at Shattuck where these teams are playing?

YES IF THE TOURNAMENT IS PROPERLY SANCTIONED BY MH AS AN 'A' TOURNAMENT. I DONT THINK THE SPONSORS WANT THEM BASED ON THEIR LITERATURE. BUT HERE IS A QUESTION REGARDING THIS TOURNAMENT SO I WILL NOT SAY ANYTHING MORE UNTIL IT IS RESOLVED.


What about Tournaments like Edina and the Spirit of Duluth, I know Edina usually has teams from Colorado, Alaska...Duluth has Teams like Grafton and Marquette? Are these teams "legal" and why?

TOUGH TO ANSWER WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE TO THESE TEAMS.
IN D16 WE HAVE TEAMS FROM MI, WI, CO & ND PARTICIPATING THIS YEAR AS WELL AS MANTIOBA AND ONTARIO. I DONT KNOW IF THESE ARE THE TEAMS YOU REFER TO OR NOT. PETE HILL OR BRAD HEWITT OR THEIR TOURNEY REPS WOULD BE THE ONES TO ASK.

I'm sure somewhere in this conveluted mess of rants lies the answers to my questions but I'm having a hard time decyphering what is fact and what is fiction. Elliott can you shed some light?

This is a MNH rule regarding playing teams of a different classification.
For games (scrimmages or whatever you want to call them) between two different classicfications (in MH that would be A vs B, or B vs C) the association needs approval of the District Director(s).
For tournaments it is simply not allowed.
The problem is with teams registered in another state or country. For northwestern MN teams the problem is more with Canada. (But with bigger tourneys we ahve ND, Col, Mich AND Wi teams.
What classification are they?
This year we have a new VP of tournaments but he has served on the tourney committee for at least nine years.
Under the 3 precious VP's the unwritten rule regarding the non-MN teams was the local and the district made a determination on where our guests fit in our model. Not always easy, but we in D16 made a good faith effort to do a proper fit.

This year, some in MH and at some district levels are saying the Tier I team or an unclassified team is of a different classification and therefore cannot play in invitational tournaments.
District 16 continues to follow the precedent set at least since 1987 when I first was involved in helping bring out of the country and state teams here for tournaments.

If the letter of the rule is followed it would be very difficult to bring any out of state/country teams here because of AAA to C usage in toher places.

It is not a simple thing to follow but I hope this helps a little.

[SECoach]

SECoach your joking right about the above sentence in red. Your hatred partially stems from the waiver process? Please explain the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire. I would love to hear your opinion on waivers in regards to the Minnesota Made Choice League. In addition if my kid decides to play basketball does he need a waiver as well?

SECoach with rational like this, why don't you step forward and except your Nobel Peace Prize.

Hatred?...just having a conversation here. . Does that help? As i said, we choose not to play them. When the basketball team becomes an affiliate member of USA Hockey then yes, they would need a waiver. No waiver needed to play at Minnesota Made, as they are not an affiliate member of USA Hockey. People are free to create their own organization, such as Minnesota Made and make their own rules. This does not apply to the Fire as they are, through Wisconsen Hockey, and affiliate member of USA Hockey.

SECoach,

This forum is great, but sometimes individuals just flat out throw something out there that others assume is true.

Since you didn't explain the proper waiver process and the proper channels to follow if some kid wants to play for the Fire, how would you know many if not most of the Minnesota residents have not obtained the proper waivers and gone through the proper channels?

You are right, that happens alot and i try my best to not throw stuff out there. Thanks for the explanation Elliott.

As Elliott said it is left to the District to decide how they handle this. Because of the reasons I stated previously, our district does not approve games played against the Fire. How do I know this? Ummm, because i go to District meetings and listen.

I'll edit this to add so you can tell that i don't hate the Fire or their players. We just don't play them. No problem.