High School Hockey without checking?

[puck81]

Hockey is a team. He is a great player on a not so great team. Was top 15 in the nation in points last year.

Like always, missing the point. You can't show me where I said they shouldn't hit at all. I don't think that. But they shouldn't have a hit first mentality.

The thread was about getting rid of checking. Most of us agree that's not a good idea. I agree. But most of us also agree there's too much checking. Good, we can move on.

Too much checking in hockey? No way. Now I don't condone poor body checking tecnique's and just plain being a chop or a hack but show me a club that doesn't bang the bodies around and I'll bet they don't go too far in March. Example: Hill-Murray comes out the other night against Benilde in the 1st period and play like they are on the soccer field and gets their lunch handed to them. Hill coach chews butt in the locker room between periods and they come out putting the body to the younger Benilde players and Hill dominates the 2nd period of that game. From then on it was a battle. Great game with lots of good checking. Just what hockey is about. Now we can move on.

[Lucia4President]

Here here Puck81...

Checking is part of the fabric of the game, yes, the head hunting has to stop, but a good check to take the man off the puck is a necessity, whether its in the corner when a team/player is dominating the puck in cycle, or at mid ice when a Dman takes a forward off the puck... In the game of puck control, change of position is critical to the team with less of the puck, checking is warranted and required in our game...

Watcher: The "Jordan Schroeder" example has proven ill timed... As a Gopher season ticker holder, I have watched Jordan (playing soft and without passion lately) and his teammates, and playing the body more would greatly improve the Gophers success on the ice... playing soft, and watching the game, rather than participating in every facet, including body checking, translates into losses at the end of the game...

I would add this, we as coaches and parents have to do a better job of teaching the correct checking techniques when the kids are young... the head hunting we see at the Bantam & High School level has to stop now, too many kids are getting hurt, both checker & checkee...

Body checking has to be and should be a part of our great game of hockey.

I couldn't agree more.

[defense]

Hockey is a team. He is a great player on a not so great team. Was top 15 in the nation in points last year.

Like always, missing the point. You can't show me where I said they shouldn't hit at all. I don't think that. But they shouldn't have a hit first mentality.

The thread was about getting rid of checking. Most of us agree that's not a good idea. I agree. But most of us also agree there's too much checking. Good, we can move on.

Too much checking in hockey? No way. Now I don't condone poor body checking tecnique's and just plain being a chop or a hack but show me a club that doesn't bang the bodies around and I'll bet they don't go too far in March. Example: Hill-Murray comes out the other night against Benilde in the 1st period and play like they are on the soccer field and gets their lunch handed to them. Hill coach chews butt in the locker room between periods and they come out putting the body to the younger Benilde players and Hill dominates the 2nd period of that game. From then on it was a battle. Great game with lots of good checking. Just what hockey is about. Now we can move on.[/quote]


that's what you think......

[HockeyMN1]

It's a contact sport, you run the risk of injury coming in and you should know that. Checking is and always will be part of the game and eliminating it would be beyond stupid.

[HShockeywatcher]

By too much, I refer to the checks that are illegal. I like the sport for the physicality of it. While I do think it would be cool to see the talents of players in a no checking game, I don't at all think there should be no checking. I, like most you have posted, want to be rid of the bad checking. All I'm saying. Included in the "too much checking" comment is checking that should not be happening.

I agree with everything DmanDad1980 said. I don't think putting words in my mouth is right. Checking is good, bad checking is bad.

A single PLAYER can be very good without being a person who checks much. A TEAM cannot be very good without checking.

[hockeyfanatic99]

I already weighed in on this topic but I found an interesting article in todays Grand Forks Herald by long time sports writer Virg Foss, he had an interesting question, would the game improve if a player commits an illegal check that injures a player rendering them unable to play - the player commiting the illegal check would be suspended from the game until the injured player returns. Now this may sound unfair to some but I would guess that few players are out to hurt other players and unfortunately, what is intended as a clean hit - turns bad without intent. It happens - the question is should their be consequences?

[defense]

I already weighed in on this topic but I found an interesting article in todays Grand Forks Herald by long time sports writer Virg Foss, he had an interesting question, would the game improve if a player commits an illegal check that injures a player rendering them unable to play - the player commiting the illegal check would be suspended from the game until the injured player returns. Now this may sound unfair to some but I would guess that few players are out to hurt other players and unfortunately, what is intended as a clean hit - turns bad without intent. It happens - the question is should their be consequences?

I believe that there are rules out there now stating that if one player hurts another player, drawing blood or causing the hurt player to leave the game, that player also has to leave the game. I don't know if it is in HS hockey, but in youth hockey it definitely is a rule in some places. This applied to a game I played in at a Fargo youth tournement once, a Jamestown player threw a hit on one of our guys that dislocated his shoulder, the Jamestown player had to leave the game.

[youngblood08]

Ridiculous! Sometimes accidents happen, the player turns or something could even happen unintentionally. Like the player initiating the hit trys to avoid the hit and still injures the player.

I had a hit a few years back in Bantams where the defensemen made a clean open ice check on the forward with his head down. first it was no call then due to the LOUD screaming of the player on the ice, a penalty was called after a minute, then after the refs noticed the blood pouring out of his nose they gave the intent to injure after the parents and coaches went nuts. Yet the only reason the kid got hurt were his own.

1 - head down looking at the puck

2 - didn't have his helmet strapped right, mask was dangling and helet straps were loose. he missed about 3 shifts and was back on the ice. our player missed the rest of the game for a clean hit.

[HShockeywatcher]

youngblood08 makes a very good point. Those situations are bologna. Personally I'm not talking about those.

Although many think it's part of the game, takes players out of the play, etc, etc, it's not part of the rules if a player gets rid of a puck and 3 seconds later, because you are a goon, you nail him into the boards.

Many think too highly of the intent of many of our teenage boys. And sure, their intent may not be to send a player out in a stretcher, but there are many things that happen where the negative consequences are not thought of. ANY check from behind could very easily send a player out in a stretcher and they are never able to walk again. Now, did the player think, "gee, I want to paralyze this kid!" NO! But did he think, "gee, if I hit him really hard from behind when he doesn't know I'm here it may paralyze him." Also no, which is the issue.

There are also times where a player is already out of the player from how they are skating to already falling into the boards and a player takes it upon himself to check that player into the boards, many times head first, not only taking themself out of the play but potentially injuring another player.

I can't speak for those posting before me, but I would never ask for checking to be taking out of hockey. What people continue to misquote me about is simply wanting illegal checks to ALL (we're human, most) be called and the check first attitude to lessen.

[BOTCH #3]

This may be something to consider for youth hockey but definitely not high school. Checking is just part of the game, just like fighting is a part of the NHL game and neither should be outlawed.

[Sioux Fan]

Yes then our MN kids could really compete at the Junior A level and college.

I think we should play flag football too or two hand touch..

A problem is the kids do not practice enough combat hockey so they are ready to defend and protect themselves..

Elite league has little to very little checking and it does not prepare our kids for junior hockey college hockey or NHL Hockey..

I believe that it sets our top players for major adj. Our High School coaches do not want any injuries in the fall so the contact is discouraged.
Adjustment means uncomfortable and uncomfortable sometimes means not show up well vs AAA midget trained peers that are trying out for the same jobs who has the edge.

It is the best chance for our kids to prepare for the next level and should be played as hard and tough as possible. Injuries are a part of Hockey unless we change the game. To not prepare for the tough gritty part of the game with our top players sets them up to have to make a big adj at junior A level and college. I think that the game should be the game and that the level of competition as it rises the physical competition and hitting picks up as everyone can skate and make plays you need to finish your checks and forecheck hard to create turnovers and opportunities.

That is why having the big sheet at Mariucci is allowing us to get skilled undersized D men that look good in our not great checking competition in High School MN and Elite League MN and then they go to Ann Arbor and look like they do not know how to play the physical game that is required.

It is not Coach Lucia's fault, I think Nick Leddy got hurt because he was not expecting anyone to hit him why would he playing in MN.

[Sioux Fan]

I want to clarify I do not condone the hit that Chay Genoway took in SCSU game. Checking from behind is already illegal Boarding is illegal Charging is illegal same with High Sticking, Slashing, Elbowing, blows to the head. Most of the bad hits are already eliminated by rule..
But a spinal cord injury or concussion is so dangerous that a brutal check from behind should have suspensions or a concusion created by an illegal check should cause suspensions...

If players do not respect the rules and thier opponents the priveldge to play the great game of hockey should be taken away from the player.

The players want to play and will not let this happen. I think players do not in most cases want to injure another player. If players play with rekless disregard for others they will be subject to suspension. I think those types of reckless hits can be illiminated directly by the officials and leagues.. But I am sure if a ruling like that had to be made it would be challenged legally. So be it. If it is the right call it should stand up to scrutiny. If it is questionable the offending player should get the benefit of doubt. But if it is clearly reckless disregard for the rules and disrespect for the safety of other players it should be penalized severly.

But players have responsibility to have their heads up and to be under control in the boards area.. Sometimes they are too reckless with thier speed and an innocent trip up can lead to a bad injury due to the speed going toward the wall.

I love the game and the more competitive and gritty the better for me.

[defense]

Ridiculous! Sometimes accidents happen, the player turns or something could even happen unintentionally. Like the player initiating the hit trys to avoid the hit and still injures the player.

I had a hit a few years back in Bantams where the defensemen made a clean open ice check on the forward with his head down. first it was no call then due to the LOUD screaming of the player on the ice, a penalty was called after a minute, then after the refs noticed the blood pouring out of his nose they gave the intent to injure after the parents and coaches went nuts. Yet the only reason the kid got hurt were his own.

1 - head down looking at the puck

2 - didn't have his helmet strapped right, mask was dangling and helet straps were loose. he missed about 3 shifts and was back on the ice. our player missed the rest of the game for a clean hit.

Rididiculous, maybe, I won't take that away from you, but listen to the other part:
In this incident, all players were sent to the locker room while the ambulance took our teamate away. What do you suppose we were thinking in the locker room???? We were making sure we knew the # on the jersey of the guy who checked him so we could get him back. Now, I'm not saying anyone on our team was planning to drill the kid to the boards from behind when he wasn't paying attention, I'm not saying that anyone was plotting to skate as hard as they could right through the kid, I'm not saying that anyone was planning on violently throwing him into the boards..... but in the heat of the battle, if the opportunity was there for a teenager with all of the emotions and adrenaline pumping...who knows....legal or not something may have happened. Removing the guy on the other team was likely a smart move, I am not sure if he played in the following game. I understand that a game ejection generally results in an automatic suspension from the following contest. Think about it, if a player injures another player on a completely legal hit, how does he deserve to get mugged??? I gaurentee retalliation will happen. If the hit was illegal, the offender should be removed anyway... it's like having two sons fighting in the living room, at some point you just remove them from the situation.

[Hockeyfan#8]

NO!!

[HShockeywatcher]

Our teenagers do things that have the potential to paralyze a player for life and they get a penalty or one game suspension because it's a game

Two high schools students are horsing around after school, one pushes one from behind head first into a wall and paralyzes the kid, he goes to jail.

Oh, my bad, hockey's different

[whos_it]

I really don't have any statistics to support anything I am going to say but I bet far more kids are "seriously" injured on the way to and from hockey games and practice than are "seriously" injured in the games. Perhaps they should stop going to and from practice to insure they never are injured while participating in the sport of hockey.

Injuries are trully a bummer and we should do all we can to insure that senseless injuries do not take place. Hockey, without checking, is some other game. Give it a different name if it is going to be checking free. All I know is that life inherently has risks, driving, H1N1, slips, falls, hunting, work related, school related, going to the hospital and of course athletics.

In the words of Garth Brooks, "I could have missed the pain but then I would have missed the dance!" The dance he is talking about is life.

[ryno44]

THIS IS NOT GIRLS HOCKEY!!!! LET THEM CHECK!!!!

[HockeyMN1]

Our teenagers do things that have the potential to paralyze a player for life and they get a penalty or one game suspension because it's a game

Two high schools students are horsing around after school, one pushes one from behind head first into a wall and paralyzes the kid, he goes to jail.

Oh, my bad, hockey's different

Yea, I guess you're right. Let's just ban any contact in any sport because someone might get paralyzed. And if they do hit anybody, send him to jail because they have the potential of paralyzing the other person.

You can't just say the word paralyzed and expect to that to make a valid point. Hockey (just like any other real sport) is dangerous. Get over it, nobody goes into a game hoping to put someone else in a wheelchair.

[WB6162]

Checking is an important part of the game the hitting just for a hit is not,coaches at all levels need to do a better job of not only teaching how to check, but also how take one in all parts of the rink to protect yourself and your opponent.

The officials need to do a better job of enforcing the rules already in place especially at the high school level. At the high school level the officials need to call the game as it is supposed to be not which what the coaches or administrators want it called. The best example of this is the State HS tournament; how many times have you seen the hit,late or head first to the boards, the game stopped because of the injury caused and at the most the player received was a minor if any at all.

The BS has to stop, play the game, play hard, protect yourself and your opponent, it is not necessary to spend the rest of your life in a wheel chair.

Oh yeah, we have to count on the officials right? They guys making $25.00 per game in youth hockey?

Just look at the mentality of the people in this thread and their comments. This is why hockey will never be respected as a main stream sport.

Just ban checking and ban the neanderthals from the sport and let it be what it was meant to be. Coaches may even have to start teaching the game and players that go around head hunting may have to actually THINK about what they should be doing on the ice.

Very difficult concept for many of you I know.

[WB6162]

Our teenagers do things that have the potential to paralyze a player for life and they get a penalty or one game suspension because it's a game

Two high schools students are horsing around after school, one pushes one from behind head first into a wall and paralyzes the kid, he goes to jail.

Oh, my bad, hockey's different

Yea, I guess you're right. Let's just ban any contact in any sport because someone might get paralyzed. And if they do hit anybody, send him to jail because they have the potential of paralyzing the other person.

You can't just say the word paralyzed and expect to that to make a valid point. Hockey (just like any other real sport) is dangerous. Get over it, nobody goes into a game hoping to put someone else in a wheelchair.

Well, if people like myself start pressuring their legislators to do something about the unnecessary risk that hockey is causing to young high school students maybe something will be done. There will come a time when the liability may just become too high and high schools will start dropping their HS hockey programs. Publicly funded schools should not be putting students in positions to be maimed just because of an activity.

[scoreboard33]

HSHockeywatcher, I feel like you take the antagonistic side of every argument...

WB6162, you started by making valid points but now are just becoming belligerent.

Hockey is not not a mainstream sport because of violence, more because if you don't have cold winters, you don't have ice and thus don't really grow up with hockey. Its changing, but slowly. In Minnesota, hockey is a mainstream sport. Same with many other states that have northern climates.

You wanna start pressuring legislators...GOOD LUCK! I guarantee you that no legislator will want to get voted out of office because they sided with one or two angry nut jobs rather than a vast majority that love the sport as it is. IF you watched T.V. during this past election, I'm sure you saw the ads for Norm Coleman listing all the good things he had done for Minnesota, but that had an old lady screaming over those "and he brought hockey back." Good luck getting a legislator to vote to change high school hockey when they see 18000 people outside their office in March going to a the high school tourney or a wild game.

Why aren't you against football and basketball, too. Look at all the hitting in football. Look at how many times a player gets undercut in basketball and ends up going face first into the floor. TJ Ford was badly hurt by that situation. Baseball, even, batters get hit in the head. Pitchers get line drives hit back at them, sometimes they get hit in the head.

BTW, the supreme court has already ruled that by stepping into the batter's box, you assume the risk of getting hit by a pitch, even if it is intentional. I suspect that they would rule similiarly on events in a hockey game, as long as it is not a vicious assault that would not happen during normal physical play, such as a McSorley or Bertuzzi incident.

[bender09]

i think everyone on this board knows that this topic is not ligetament, checking will not be banned in high school hockey or any other level. living in minnesota we all take risks driving in the winter why don't we go to congress on why no one should be able to drive in the winter cause there is ice.

[whos_it]

Our teenagers do things that have the potential to paralyze a player for life and they get a penalty or one game suspension because it's a game

Two high schools students are horsing around after school, one pushes one from behind head first into a wall and paralyzes the kid, he goes to jail.

Oh, my bad, hockey's different

Yea, I guess you're right. Let's just ban any contact in any sport because someone might get paralyzed. And if they do hit anybody, send him to jail because they have the potential of paralyzing the other person.

You can't just say the word paralyzed and expect to that to make a valid point. Hockey (just like any other real sport) is dangerous. Get over it, nobody goes into a game hoping to put someone else in a wheelchair.

Well, if people like myself start pressuring their legislators to do something about the unnecessary risk that hockey is causing to young high school students maybe something will be done. There will come a time when the liability may just become too high and high schools will start dropping their HS hockey programs. Publicly funded schools should not be putting students in positions to be maimed just because of an activity.

There we go, I was wondering when you were going to run to a lawyer (liability comment) to get your way. One of my team mates was hit in the throat, ban lifting the puck. Another was cut in the upper leg while switching up with a teammate, ban sharp skates. One was knocked unconsious when he lost his edge going into the corner, ban skating. Another fell in the shower after a game (screwing around of course) and broke his jaw, ban showering after ward.

How is that vote for Obama working out for you ........ just a guess!!!

I am out of this forum for now, we all will just have to agree to disagree. Take care and be safe.

[WB6162]

i think everyone on this board knows that this topic is not ligetament, checking will not be banned in high school hockey or any other level. living in minnesota we all take risks driving in the winter why don't we go to congress on why no one should be able to drive in the winter cause there is ice.

Back to reality, yes I agree. Checking will never be banned but I think we may see it restricted so severely that the game is going to look completely different in a few years and I think that will be a great thing.

Personally, I think any check from behind or a check that looks REMOTELY like it was intended to injure and not a part of trying to get the puck and continue play--the player should be ejected and suspended for 5 games first offense and the head coach with him.

[whos_it]

i think everyone on this board knows that this topic is not ligetament, checking will not be banned in high school hockey or any other level. living in minnesota we all take risks driving in the winter why don't we go to congress on why no one should be able to drive in the winter cause there is ice.

Back to reality, yes I agree. Checking will never be banned but I think we may see it restricted so severely that the game is going to look completely different in a few years and I think that will be a great thing.

Personally, I think any check from behind or a check that looks REMOTELY like it was intended to injure and not a part of trying to get the puck and continue play--the player should be ejected and suspended for 5 games first offense and the head coach with him.

Now these comments I have no problem with. (I couldn't stay off the forum). I was at a game this weekend. Checking after the puck was gone was the norm. If the puck is not on the stick when the check is made, give em all a major. I have no issue with that. Way to much hitting for effect instead of end result.