White Bear vs Hill-Murray 12/15

[northwoods oldtimer]

I know lots and lots of people whose kids go to private schools and they are NOT hockey players.

That line is a bit overused when discussing "mercenary hockey" your amatuer status is revoked at the beginning of tryouts for HOCKEY that is. Bodyshots, great breakdown of WBL hockey team. they do indeed have a long way to go to catch the assembled talent that is HM.

[BearsSensGophs]

To me it looked like when WB got down 0-2 early they went on a stretch of just trying to get big checks on Hill.

[observer]

The absolute worst coaching strategy in that situation. The old days of "setting the tone early with some big hits" is gone. Quickest way from 0-0 to 2-0, or 2-0 to 4-0, is shorthanded. Not exactly what happened in this particular game as it appears both had 6 penalties and no one scored on the PP. But, no weaker opponent can beat a stronger one shorthanded. The goal for the Bears should have been zero penalties.

[tourneytickssince59]

I know lots and lots of people whose kids go to private schools and they are NOT hockey players.

That line is a bit overused when discussing "mercenary hockey" your amatuer status is revoked at the beginning of tryouts for HOCKEY that is. Bodyshots, great breakdown of WBL hockey team. they do indeed have a long way to go to catch the assembled talent that is HM.

So is the recruiting angle - so tiring hearing that garbage.
Mercenary hockey is a stretch don't you think?
Good programs attrack good players, bad ones don't!

[bulldog14411]

I'm pretty confident about going to state this year. Again.

A monkey could coach that team of all stars to state. Scales are most definitely tipped in HM favor when they can just reload with area talent year in and year out.

One solution would be to have one each private A and private AA metro section with the winner going to the state. HM could remain in Suburban East for the regular season but would have to win the Private AA sec to advance to the state Tourney. It would prevent the Alll Star Team syndrome and the best players would have a better chance of getting to the state tourney playing on a public school team.

or we could go back to the old days where they had their own tournament...

[Goldfishdude]

The rivalry is over! WBL's best chance was last year, with a depleted HM team, and they still couldn't get the job done. It doesn't look like it will get any closer in the near future as WBL's youth programs are on the decline.

I new HM was good, but I didn't know WBL was going to be this bad.

1. Stick handling - Can WBL skate and stick handle the puck at the same time?
2. Passing - I didn't see a lot of completed passes. Although there were quite a few that were tape to tape to the HM stick.
3. Skating - They really looked slow.
4. Positioning - A lot of odd man breaks. I think it was the end of the 1st period and HM had a 3 on 1 and the one back for WBL was a forward.
5. A lot of hype about Carney. I didn't see it last night.
6. Schletty actually made some nice saves and kept it from getting to running time.

I watched the game at the bar last night with some friends and I got to say, I was .[/list]

Body... I was getting some flack via my son saying he was hearing from some of his teammates about my comments here, especially, the part of me staying at home and watching on TV with a bag on my head.

Let me just state this. I won't sugar coat a thing, and if these WBL kids need a reality check, and a kick in the butt on the fundamentals of the game, and maybe to rid some of the arrogance, and get these kids focused on BIG games, then that's what I am going to do.

This isn't a knock on the current team. There IS talent. If there wasn't talent, they wouldn't whip up on the cupcakes like Cloquet or Hastings, they would win by one or two goals. This is about trying to get the kids to know what it's going to take to win the big games.

It's the whole concept of coach and team seeing what East and Hill have done to beat WBL. These kids and coaches have to learn from these experiences and make the corrections.

The reality is as of now, teams like East and Hill are just better than WBL. This team will struggle versus games like St. Thomas, Woodbury, Stillwater IF THEY ARE NOT PREPARED TO PLAY THEIR BEST HOCKEY.

In games like this, when I say the difference between Hill having absolute confidence, and WBL having hesitant confidence was clearly shown. WBL had chances to score on Shaunessy, but his belly looked bigger than it actually is, whereas his jock strap should have been in one corner, while the puck was in the back of the net.

The kids that have tremendous talent, ingenuity with the puck and the skill to MAKE plays - you guys know who you are - you have to stop shooting in the breadbasket and use your ability.

I need to add this:

These teams like Minnetonka, Eden Prairie, and I will put Hill in that class, as they are a top 5-7 ranked school, are kinda like the NFL. These teams are alot like how the Saints, Colts and Vikings are clearly the best teams in the NFL, these HS teams I am listing are just that good.

This isn't a knock on WBL as it is just in that next tier of teams, as to why Karl doesn't have them ranked, and why WBL is ranked in mid-teens in other publications.

[sachishi4]

Yeah, congratulations to WBL on that best student section competition thing. Unfortunately they had little to cheer about. You do know that WBL has 2400 kids in grades 9-12 and Hill-Murray has 800, don't you? Plus HM had probably 80 of those 800 that couldn't come because there were playing boys and girls BB games last night. Based on that math I'd say HM won the best student section percentage competition thing. Of course that 5-0 hockey game score was in the paper this moring and the best student section competition thing was not.

quoted for truth

like I said, basic mathematical proportions, then again, they probably dont teach that in public schools

[mnpuckster]

We saw total domination by HM, and it seems like it will continue as WBL youth program are in decline, and the area as a whole seems to be shifting a bit. As much hype as there was prior to the game, WBL played exponentionally worse than the hype. I understand there was a mismatch in team talent, but WBL looked confused and lost.
WBL, which is usually a sound defensive team, was definately not ready for HM. This D-core doesnt have the talent of past WBL teams, but they still should be playing better than they did last night. Positioning was awful, and they were totally were beat up by the Pioneers physically. As Schletty had to make some big saves, and he was one of the few bright spots for the bears. Not overtly blaming Sager, but WBL didnt ever look like they were ready for what HM was bringing. They were out of position all night, had no emotion, few offensensive chances, and the D-core was atrocious. HM beat WBL to EVERY loose puck, had more talent, and played like they wanted it more. When you have all those things going for you, its going to be tough to lose.
A few things to note
-Carney, Hes a freshman playing in a program that never selects freshman to the varsity team. Yes, he was sketchy at times last night, and gave up a goal by the misplay on the boards, but give him time, he'll be a good player
-Makojzak-He is too small to be playing D for this team. He was getting manhandled in front of the net and in the corners. (as was WBL's whole team) Pete, his brother, grew at a later age, but RJ is going to have to get bigger/stronger to play D at this level.
-Wolter, What happened to this kid? He was a star as a sophomore, and now is nearly non-existant. He has size, speed, and skill, but it just doesnt seem to be getting put together. Maybe pair him with Jansen and Rogers, to mix things up.
-Birkinbine/Wahlin-These two kids can play, and almost had a couple of goals in last nights game. Both a little undersized, with great skill. Birkinbine nearly had 2 goals last night and is a great player, but I think Wahlin is even better. If these two keep playing together and getting even more cohesion, these 2 could light the lamps. This line last night did have a lot of trouble getting it out of the D-zone last night(as did the entire team), but that may be more on the D-core.
-Schletty-Played well, he was hung out to dry by the D-men. This game should be a reality check for the D-core, as they were completely unprepated, hung out their goaltender, and played noticably terrible in the game against their arch rivals. If this D-core doesnt improve, this team is going nowhere.
and finally...
-Sager-While I'm not blaming the loss on him, it didnt look like this team was prepared in the least bit. Floating that center high in the D-zone looking for the long breakout pass didnt work, and he continued it throughout the game. The team was flat, MOSTLY out of position, got beat to every loose puck, and couldnt catch a pass as someone stated earlier. Thats 11 straight as everyone has been mentioning, and in rivalries, its all about beat the arch rival. Ohio St.-Mich, you have to win those games, and if you lose 11!!!! straight, I think its time for a change of scenery. I know WBL is in major decline, and doesnt have the talent it once had, but after that 11th slaughterfest, I think it should be time to start considering to look for elsewhere. Everyone can say, its just more "sager bashing,' but come on, if your team lost 11 straight to your arch rival, you would also be looking for a change. SAGER HAS A HISTORY OF GETTING MORE OUT OF HIS TEAM IN LATE FEB. , EARLY MARCH, SO WE WILL SEE IF HE CAN PULL IT OFF THIS YEAR. IN '-07, EXCEPTIONAL COACHING JOB, AND THIS IS A SIMILAR YEAR. HM HAS HAD THE TALENT OVER WBL FOR YEARS, BUT SAGER ALWAYS SEEMS TO GET THE KIDS TO PLAY UP FOR THE SECTIONAL GAMES. I HOPE HE'S GOT A TRICK UP HIS SLEEVE AGAIN, OR WBL WILL BE BOUNCED IN THE QUARTERS.

*sidenote-Is Birkinbine and Wahlin going to play for senior seasons? I dont know why they would at this point, this program is on the severe decline, and Sager looks like he has no control of the team on the ice. They may be better served playing juniors. And if thats the case, RIP WBL HS hockey.

[WB6162]

A monkey could coach that team of all stars to state. Scales are most definitely tipped in HM favor when they can just reload with area talent year in and year out.

One solution would be to have one each private A and private AA metro section with the winner going to the state. HM could remain in Suburban East for the regular season but would have to win the Private AA sec to advance to the state Tourney. It would prevent the Alll Star Team syndrome and the best players would have a better chance of getting to the state tourney playing on a public school team.

or we could go back to the old days where they had their own tournament...

I didn't know that. They had their own tourney? How did that work?

[northwoods oldtimer]

So is the recruiting angle - so tiring hearing that garbage.

Just calling a spade a spade. 'Mercenary' is a bit of a stretch but you get the point.

[hockey77coach]

We saw total domination by HM, and it seems like it will continue as WBL youth program are in decline, and the area as a whole seems to be shifting a bit. As much hype as there was prior to the game, WBL played exponentionally worse than the hype. I understand there was a mismatch in team talent, but WBL looked confused and lost.
WBL, which is usually a sound defensive team, was definately not ready for HM. This D-core doesnt have the talent of past WBL teams, but they still should be playing better than they did last night. Positioning was awful, and they were totally were beat up by the Pioneers physically. As Schletty had to make some big saves, and he was one of the few bright spots for the bears. Not overtly blaming Sager, but WBL didnt ever look like they were ready for what HM was bringing. They were out of position all night, had no emotion, few offensensive chances, and the D-core was atrocious. HM beat WBL to EVERY loose puck, had more talent, and played like they wanted it more. When you have all those things going for you, its going to be tough to lose.
A few things to note
-Carney, Hes a freshman playing in a program that never selects freshman to the varsity team. Yes, he was sketchy at times last night, and gave up a goal by the misplay on the boards, but give him time, he'll be a good player
-Makojzak-He is too small to be playing D for this team. He was getting manhandled in front of the net and in the corners. (as was WBL's whole team) Pete, his brother, grew at a later age, but RJ is going to have to get bigger/stronger to play D at this level.
-Wolter, What happened to this kid? He was a star as a sophomore, and now is nearly non-existant. He has size, speed, and skill, but it just doesnt seem to be getting put together. Maybe pair him with Jansen and Rogers, to mix things up.
-Birkinbine/Wahlin-These two kids can play, and almost had a couple of goals in last nights game. Both a little undersized, with great skill. Birkinbine nearly had 2 goals last night and is a great player, but I think Wahlin is even better. If these two keep playing together and getting even more cohesion, these 2 could light the lamps. This line last night did have a lot of trouble getting it out of the D-zone last night(as did the entire team), but that may be more on the D-core.
-Schletty-Played well, he was hung out to dry by the D-men. This game should be a reality check for the D-core, as they were completely unprepated, hung out their goaltender, and played noticably terrible in the game against their arch rivals. If this D-core doesnt improve, this team is going nowhere.
and finally...
-Sager-While I'm not blaming the loss on him, it didnt look like this team was prepared in the least bit. Floating that center high in the D-zone looking for the long breakout pass didnt work, and he continued it throughout the game. The team was flat, MOSTLY out of position, got beat to every loose puck, and couldnt catch a pass as someone stated earlier. Thats 11 straight as everyone has been mentioning, and in rivalries, its all about beat the arch rival. Ohio St.-Mich, you have to win those games, and if you lose 11!!!! straight, I think its time for a change of scenery. I know WBL is in major decline, and doesnt have the talent it once had, but after that 11th slaughterfest, I think it should be time to start considering to look for elsewhere. Everyone can say, its just more "sager bashing,' but come on, if your team lost 11 straight to your arch rival, you would also be looking for a change. SAGER HAS A HISTORY OF GETTING MORE OUT OF HIS TEAM IN LATE FEB. , EARLY MARCH, SO WE WILL SEE IF HE CAN PULL IT OFF THIS YEAR. IN '-07, EXCEPTIONAL COACHING JOB, AND THIS IS A SIMILAR YEAR. HM HAS HAD THE TALENT OVER WBL FOR YEARS, BUT SAGER ALWAYS SEEMS TO GET THE KIDS TO PLAY UP FOR THE SECTIONAL GAMES. I HOPE HE'S GOT A TRICK UP HIS SLEEVE AGAIN, OR WBL WILL BE BOUNCED IN THE QUARTERS.

*sidenote-Is Birkinbine and Wahlin going to play for senior seasons? I dont know why they would at this point, this program is on the severe decline, and Sager looks like he has no control of the team on the ice. They may be better served playing juniors. And if thats the case, RIP WBL HS hockey.

Great assessment of the Bears. They do have some talent, they just don't play as a team. Their top line of Wahlin, Birkinbine and Wolter had a few chances but they didn't really seem to click. I wouldn't be too hard on them, including Wolter, unless we see the same results midway through the year.

I like the play of the goalie and he will need to be better than average if the defense continues to play below average. White Bear may need to change their style of play and have their forwards help out more on defense. This will result in lower scoring games but hopefully closer games.

[wblhockeyfan8]

The HM blue line was just too much for WBL.

It was a great game for the Pioneers and theyve clearly got plenty of talent. Kudos to WB for keeping up the intensity, and keeping them from running time.

Student sections looked great, although I was suprised by the lack of celebration within the HM student section when they were dominating on the ice.

WB may be able to hold their own in sections but for the time being- 11-0 HM.

[Northsider]

Yea, proportionally, our student section was a little more than White Bear's. I'd estimate we had about 500 students there. (Out of 800 so about 60% of the student body give or take)

I'd break our students down as follows:

300 students (~40%) don't give a crap about hockey, and actually despise the attention hockey draws away from more cultured extracurriculars like music and theatre.
400 students (~50%) like to see us win, but really could care less. Only show up for the White Bear game, section semis and final, and state.
100 students (~10%) big time hockey fans and go to every game they can.

As for White Bear, they had about 1000 students I'd say, or about ~40% of their student body.

The first four/five rows is where most of the die-hards were in our section and that area was rocking. Above that, most students were more concerned with socializing and texting thus giving the appearance that the Hill section was not too into it. Sure they clapped when we scored and all, but the relative lack of a game bored most of them so it wasn't nearly as intense as it would have been during a closer game.

WB on the other hand, has a much bigger hockey culture at school and they have more than enough die-hard fans to stuff full an entire section. Plus everyone in the section is expected to go crazy, unlike our section were many of the students ostracized the students actually into the game as being too "obnoxious".

White Bear clearly has a better student section, although our's is improving and will be much better next year cause our seniors this year, with a handful of exceptions, are the definition of fair-weather fan.

[wbhockey02]

first of all great math and use of big words Northsider, you sure taught us publik skoolers a thing r two.

but anyways awful game played by WB, Hm was clearly the better team so congrats to them. I just couldn't believe how sloppy white bear played, it amazed me, but I'm sure they'll be ready to play Hill come Sections so hopefully they turn things around now though.

On a side note you gotta wonder how the game had turned out had that first shot by Birki and Whalin gone in.... Oh well shoulda, coulda, woulda

[wblhockeyfan8]

Yea, proportionally, our student section was a little more than White Bear's. I'd estimate we had about 500 students there. (Out of 800 so about 60% of the student body give or take)

I'd break our students down as follows:

300 students (~40%) don't give a crap about hockey, and actually despise the attention hockey draws away from more cultured extracurriculars like music and theatre.
400 students (~50%) like to see us win, but really could care less. Only show up for the White Bear game, section semis and finals, and state.
100 students (~10%) big time hockey fans and go to every game they can.

As for White Bear, they had about 1000 students I'd say, or about ~40% of their student body.

The first four/five rows is where most of the die-hards were in our section and that area was rocking. Above that, most students were more concerned with socializing and texting. Thus giving the appearance that the Hill section was not too into it. Sure they clapped when we scored and all, but the relative lack of a game bored most of them so it wasn't nearly as intense as it would ahve been during a closer game.

WB on the other hand, has a much bigger hockey culture at school and have more than enough die-hard fans to stuff full an entire section. Plus everyone in the section is expected to go crazy, unlike our section were many of the students ostrasize the students actually into the game as beign too "obnoxious".

White Bear clearly has a better student section, although our is improving and will be much better last year cause ourr seniors this year, with a handful of exceptions, are the definition of fari-weather fan.

You nailed it, I definitely didn't want to ignore those first couple rows who clearly were into it.

[GreekChurch]

first of all great math and use of big words Northsider, you sure taught us publik skoolers a thing r two.

but anyways awful game played by WB, Hm was clearly the better team so congrats to them. I just couldn't believe how sloppy white bear played, it amazed me, but I'm sure they'll be ready to play Hill come Sections so hopefully they turn things around now though.

On a side note you gotta wonder how the game had turned out had that first shot by Birki and Whalin gone in.... Oh well shoulda, coulda, woulda

The game would have ended 5 -1

[sicknasty7722]

Schletty is brutal, they would've better with no goalie in the net. Somebody teach this kid how to control his rebounds!!!!!!!

[mnpuckster]

For a Sophomore who was completely hung out to dry by his defensive, Schletty played well. Maybe if they played in the offensive zone more than 5 minutes he would be better off. WBL's D-men couldnt break the puck out, HM established dominant forecheck..opposite said for HM's D-core, as they broke the puck out mostly without opposition from any WBL forecheckers. HM's defenders really impressed me, and they should be a tough team to beat come sections.

[Mr.Penalty]

Yeah, congratulations to WBL on that best student section competition thing. Unfortunately they had little to cheer about. You do know that WBL has 2400 kids in grades 9-12 and Hill-Murray has 800, don't you? Plus HM had probably 80 of those 800 that couldn't come because there were playing boys and girls BB games last night. Based on that math I'd say HM won the best student section percentage competition thing. Of course that 5-0 hockey game score was in the paper this moring and the best student section competition thing was not.

is your head up your a$$ or what?

how on earth could HM have a better student section...none of us fans could hear a single chant they were saying...if they even said any.

also idc about numbers and i realize we had nothing to cheer about...but even when we were losing we still cheered unlike the HM fans in which all we saw was the first 2 rows clapping their hands and attempting to cheer.

[Northsider]

Kids like Casto and Walsh could simply walk through white bear players like Majikozak, Wahlin, Jasen because of their size. Others like Sampair, French, and Bahe could speed past and dangle as much as they wanted to. Hill players darted through multiple players numerous times to get into the WB zone and once in, white bear had no breakout whatsoever and couldn't clear the zone for the life of them. I don't think Ive ever seen so many turnovers at the blue line before.

Seriously, HM did pretty much what they wanted to the entire game. Except for the close call in the first twenty seconds, and the shot of the pipe in the second, White Bear had no chances whatsoever.

Hill controlled the tempo from start to finish.

[stpaul]

Hey Mr. Penalty guy. It was sarcasm. Nobody cares about student sections. I do care about numbers. These:

Hill-Murray all-time vs. White Bear Lake
vs. WBL 46-22-2 and vs. WB Mariner 4-0
total 50-22-2

11 straight wins over the past 5 seasons

12/6/05 - HM 1, WBL 0, Hoeffel with the winner.
3/3/06 - HM 5, WBL 4, 2OT, Section Final.
12/5/06 - HM 2, WBL 1, OT, Larson with the winner.
12/28/06 - HM 3, WBL 2, Schwan Cup 3rd Place Game.
3/2/07 - HM 3, WBL 1, Section Final.
12/22/07 - HM 5, WBL 2, HM's 25th Anniversary Night for the 1983 State Champs.
12/27/07 - HM 6, WBL 3, Schwan Cup Semi-final Game.
2/29/08 - HM 2, WBL 1, Section Final. HM wins State Title the next week.
12/23/08 - HM 5, WBL 2.
3/4/09 - HM 5, WBL 4, OT, Section Semi-final.
12/15/09 - HM 5, WBL 0.

[Northsider]

11

(although I do disagree that student sections are unimportant and I wish ours would improve)

[midwesthockeyscout]

Hill was superior in all facets.

[hshockeyguy88]

what was up with all the "covered wagon" chants by the wb student section?

[wblhockeyfan8]

what was up with all the "covered wagon" chants by the wb student section?

It refers to..nah I don't wanna get banned.

But yes, student sections are a big part of the game.
But it's clearly not a deciding factor in anyway, WBL fans should learn to cut their losses, regroup for the rest of the season, and stop using "our student section was bigger" as a defense to a loss.

I'm proud to be a bear, and proud of our fans, but I know how to take a loss with class. I'm sure the players would agree with me.