EP vs Tonka

SuperStar · Post by **SuperStar** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:22 pm

My first post this season for the EP Nation.

We did lose 3-1 to Tonka tonight..we did get outshot - but no where near what the rink scorekeeper had... they had 29-7 - which was a joke...

I can honestly say it was 20-12 for tonka. 2-1 with 5 minutes to go in the 3rd. Tonka has a good team.. They love to dump and chase.

The EP girls held strong but came up short.

GO EP Nation**

mnhkylvr · Post by **mnhkylvr** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:38 pm

AGREED!

EAGLE NATION!!!

northshore guy · Post by **northshore guy** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:42 pm

Shakopee played Hopkins tough tonight too... should be a good opening round game in the Mid-Winter meltdown on the 28th. See you guys then.

SuperStar · Post by **SuperStar** » Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:49 pm

Sounds good brother - see you then..!

I almost forgot - Penalities tonight for Ep vs Tonka:

EP 5
Tonka 0

funny how that happens..

far east side · Post by **far east side** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:34 am

The shots on goal tallies by scorekeepers are all over the place...which makes using save % as the sole gauge of a goalie's ability difficult. Some give SOG's for anything that crossed the blueline and is shot in the general direction of the net...some only give SOG's if the goalie does a behind the back blindfolded glove save when there is a full moon on that particular day. I usually am in charge of the scoreboard at our home games and the rule I've been given by coaches and referees is...if a goal would have been scored had the GOALIE not stopped the puck...then it is a save. It is not a save if the puck hits the post or if the GOALIE hits the puck with a stick, glove, pad...but it is wide of the net...or over the net. We usually look for consensus in the score booth before we put it up. We miss a few, I'm sure...especially when there is a pile up in front of the net.

SuperStar · Post by **SuperStar** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:49 am

The SOG can be tough - But it has happened a few times this year - not only at Girls game - But at my son's bantam games, I see it all the time...

I think High School games need to be more in check though - I agrre about what yoru saying, but I also hear ANY shot that comes from outside Center Ice redline - can't be counted, even though it would have gone in. Also GOALS don't count has a shot on net - they count as a Goal.

I have done plenty on scorekeeping and stats for shots and I was embarassed for the Minnetonka joker who keep tallying up shots last night for Tonka, when quite a few of them, were just what you mentioned...Wide shots but the goalie gets a stick on it and re-directs it to the corner and wham-o - you have a shot on net..!

It wasn't a huge deal in last nights game, but it makes it would be nice to be fair. And us parents volunterring can't get everything right...but when I see unfair shots and bad scorekeeping, I get a little upset.

Hey - we lost - no big deal, but they shots were far from 29-7

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:02 pm

SuperStar wrote:Also GOALS don't count has a shot on net - they count as a Goal.

Don't agree here, as a goal DOES count as a Shot on Goal. The math is:

Saves
+ Goals
Shots on Goal

Or conversely:

Shots on Goal
- Goals
Saves

OntheEdge · Post by **OntheEdge** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:16 pm

SuperStar wrote:The SOG can be tough - But it has happened a few times this year - not only at Girls game - But at my son's bantam games, I see it all the time...

I think High School games need to be more in check though - I agrre about what yoru saying, but I also hear ANY shot that comes from outside Center Ice redline - can't be counted, even though it would have gone in. Also GOALS don't count has a shot on net - they count as a Goal.

I have done plenty on scorekeeping and stats for shots and I was embarassed for the Minnetonka joker who keep tallying up shots last night for Tonka, when quite a few of them, were just what you mentioned...Wide shots but the goalie gets a stick on it and re-directs it to the corner and wham-o - you have a shot on net..!

It wasn't a huge deal in last nights game, but it makes it would be nice to be fair. And us parents volunterring can't get everything right...but when I see unfair shots and bad scorekeeping, I get a little upset.

Hey - we lost - no big deal, but they shots were far from 29-7

Superstar,

I don't think there is any one definitive definition of SOG however I disagree with one of your statements. In most cases, a goal is a SOG. Only when it is not a shot but a deflected pass, or a shot that would not have gone in but for the goalie is a goal not a SOG. For example, if a shot hits the crossbar and ricichets off the goalie into the net it is not a SOG since the shot would not have gone in the net but for the goalie. Also, a pass that slips through the defense and the goalie is not a shot so not a SOG. A shot is when the shooter is trying to score so it doesn't matter if he or she is shooting from behind the redline or not. It is the intent that counts. Below are a couple of good defintions I have googled:

1. A shot on goal is a shot that will enter the goal if it is not stopped by the goaltender. A shot on goal must result in either a goal or a save.

Every goal and every save count as shots on goal. This leads to an exception to the definition of a shot on goal. If the ball or puck hits the goal post or crossbar, ricochets off the goaltender, and into the net, it is a goal, and therefore a shot on goal, with the exception of NHL or ice hockey. However, had the goaltender not been present, the shot in question would not have resulted in a goal, and therefore would not be counted as a shot on goal.

In the NHL, a shot that is deflected wide or blocked before it reaches the goaltender is not counted as a shot on goal.

Shots that sail wide or high of the net and shots that hit the goal post or crossbar are not considered shots on goal, but are scored as shots. If a goaltender blocks a shot that would have missed the net or hit the post, it is not considered a shot on goal. It is the judgment of the official which shots are counted as shots on goal. Additionally, attempted shots that go wide are not recorded as an official statistic in the NHL, so shots on goal are often referred to simply as shots in that league.

2. There is no NHL definition or rule of a shot, therefore, a shot on goal is up to the discretion of the official scorer. But in general terms, a shot on goal is a shot that is taken with the intent to score that either goes into the net for a goal or the goalie saves from going into the net for a goal. A shot that hits the goalpost or crossbar, or a shot the goalie stops that would not have gone in the net is not considered a shot on goal. A clearing pass that goes through everybody and winds up being stopped by the goalie is not considered a shot on goal because there was not intent by the 'shooter' to score a goal.

Similarly an errant pass from a teammate that is stopped by the goalie is not considered a shot on goal.

SuperStar · Post by **SuperStar** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 12:34 pm

I have always been told that a goal does not equal a SOG - cause it is already marked down as a goal - not a extra SOG...

meaning if you do it has a goal and a SOG - that same shot gets marked down twice... So for example, for stat purposes, last night game would have 4 extra SOG for a game with a 3-1 score..?

And I have seen many scorekeepers do it that way.. correct me if I am wrong

OntheEdge · Post by **OntheEdge** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:29 pm

SuperStar wrote:I have always been told that a goal does not equal a SOG - cause it is already marked down as a goal - not a extra SOG...

meaning if you do it has a goal and a SOG - that same shot gets marked down twice... So for example, for stat purposes, last night game would have 4 extra SOG for a game with a 3-1 score..?

And I have seen many scorekeepers do it that way.. correct me if I am wrong

I think you are confused between "Shots on Goal" and "Saves". Some scoresheets want saves which do not include goals and some scoresheets want SOG which includes goals (in most cases) so yes I believe that you are doing it wrong and in your 3-1 game there are 4 more SOG if the scorekeeper didn't count the goals as shots on goal.

northshore guy · Post by **northshore guy** » Fri Dec 18, 2009 2:35 pm

MNHockeyFan wrote:
SuperStar wrote:Also GOALS don't count has a shot on net - they count as a Goal.
Don't agree here, as a goal DOES count as a Shot on Goal. The math is:

Saves
+ Goals
Shots on Goal

Or conversely:

Shots on Goal
- Goals
Saves

This is the way to look at it..... A goal is a shot on goal. 20 shots on goals would leave 18 saves and 2 goals. 18+2=20.