South St. Paul / IGH
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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mikeanderson
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:14 am
South St. Paul / IGH
SSP IGH with recent posts
Last edited by mikeanderson on Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:50 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Goldfishdude
- Posts: 1596
- Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:41 pm
Just in general comments made on this forum is that SSP will only go as far as Adam Wilcox takes them. When a program is relying on a goalie to continue to win games versus not lose them, then the talent in front of him needs to be addressed.
By rankings, it appears they have talent, but with teams like Hill and St. Thomas in the conference, SSP will have to be spectacular. Not sure that can happen. I don't know, I would assume SSP and St. Thomas are in the same section, so it will most likely require Wilcox to thwart the Tommies to get to state.
I wish them luck.
By rankings, it appears they have talent, but with teams like Hill and St. Thomas in the conference, SSP will have to be spectacular. Not sure that can happen. I don't know, I would assume SSP and St. Thomas are in the same section, so it will most likely require Wilcox to thwart the Tommies to get to state.
I wish them luck.
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Jr gold beast
- Posts: 11
- Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:16 pm
The team is so-so as of now. Theyre pretty chippy and have problems with penalties. The powerplay has been pathetic. Coxxy has been coxxy tho and will keep the team in every game. They are a young team with a lot of potential. If the penalty and power play problems improve and Coxxy gets hot, this team could be one to watch that will steal some games later in the year.
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mikeanderson
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:14 am
Thank you to those so far for adding your thoughts...here's a question for all interested in SSP hockey to ponder:
If you were "handed" a gopher recruit as your goalie, Wilcox, in the beginning of the season...why does SSP leadership continue such CONSTANT emphasis and such an absolute "sit back and play defense" approach to virtually ALL of their players?
This goalie will RARELY give up more than 3 goals a game, unless it's a penalty filled mess like it has been (ie against Hill and Mahtomedi SSP had TONS of penalties which caused the RARE occasion that Wilcox let in more than 3 goals).
My thoughts...during the 2 hour per day practices- get your scorers scoring! Thinking about scoring and introduce the idea that, "Hey guys, if we get 3 or more goals a game we are going to win MOST of our games."
The whole "defensive" sit back and play not to lose, conservative "hope to score" mindset is a "play not to lose" mentality. Do me a favor, DON'T think about hockey- see how you just thought about hockey? The word "don't" has no action or performance to it-
Defense sure helps more AFTER YOUVE SCORED SOME GOALS.
This idea that they don't have scorers is a joke, Poz, Young, Micacevich, Pilot, barlow, kohlman...these kids have ALL been finishers in the past.
Here's a thought- go check out Austin Young and Poz bantam goal and assist stats- these guys can score!!!!!
The dream would be to actually have some leadership who take some risks, teach the kids that the team with MORE GOALS wins not the team who only loses by 1 or 2.
This defensive mentality and approach right from the get go, is very paralyzing to this team. The kids look SCARED TO DEATH to go in the wrong place or out of position, and once they get yelled at from the bench for roaming even a bit outside of the "boundry line" they look confused, then a guy gets open and the other team gets a scoring chance.
This team needs freedom, confidence, and support from their leadership and to be told, "hey guys, we got a hell of a goalie, our defenseman will do their job- forwards- go score goals," and you know what, if they CANT score goals, well they have all those 2-3 hour practices for the next 3 months for the coaches to teach them to score. Chances are that the kids who don't typically score goals or shoot, haven't been taught HOW TO SCORE! You can't get mad at them and say they "suck" or aren't deep- you have no clue what this team could do with an offensive agressive strategy...as they haven't explored that.
How good to you think some of those scorers would be if they were TOLD TO SHOOT, MAKE GOOD PASSES and SCORE? If that was their measure of a good game? It'd be unreal how much more they would produce. Instead, the whole team is "scared" of the other team, scared to go to the wrong place and scared to hit.
Let me know your thoughts. I'd like to see some SSP hockey of old, belief, confidence, toughness, a ton of shots, hits and a contagious excitement and positivity that fumes from the SSP bench and spreads to the players to the fans...
keywords: seils, huerta, horst, nadaeu, hoeger, young, kryzer, bonk, peta...
These guys could score, but they also had an approach that was OFFENSIVE in nature and their teammates didn't sit back on their heels!
It was fast, aggressive, confident hockey and you knew they ALWAYS had a chance to just bury a team.
Their leadership had them prepared to make OFFENSIVE plays, the POWERPLAY was awesome (anyone remember seils going across the middle from the sideboards and winding up goals left and right?), and those teams never looked scared.
Common factor: They all made it to the state tournament at one point...
Here's what SSP leadership needs to realize:
First, you have a D1 goalie in the net, trust that he won't give up more than 3 goals a game typically- and take that fact and run with it
B) Teach, support and induce positivity, Believe and give freedem to your scorers to shoot, make creative plays and motivate them for GOALS! Get every player on the team on the same page in terms of believe and confidence rather than fear and doubt- teach them about offense assuming THE DEFENSE WILL BE THERE! Think of the 5 on 3s other teams have had and STILL HAVENT SCORED ON COXXY
If you were "handed" a gopher recruit as your goalie, Wilcox, in the beginning of the season...why does SSP leadership continue such CONSTANT emphasis and such an absolute "sit back and play defense" approach to virtually ALL of their players?
This goalie will RARELY give up more than 3 goals a game, unless it's a penalty filled mess like it has been (ie against Hill and Mahtomedi SSP had TONS of penalties which caused the RARE occasion that Wilcox let in more than 3 goals).
My thoughts...during the 2 hour per day practices- get your scorers scoring! Thinking about scoring and introduce the idea that, "Hey guys, if we get 3 or more goals a game we are going to win MOST of our games."
The whole "defensive" sit back and play not to lose, conservative "hope to score" mindset is a "play not to lose" mentality. Do me a favor, DON'T think about hockey- see how you just thought about hockey? The word "don't" has no action or performance to it-
Defense sure helps more AFTER YOUVE SCORED SOME GOALS.
This idea that they don't have scorers is a joke, Poz, Young, Micacevich, Pilot, barlow, kohlman...these kids have ALL been finishers in the past.
Here's a thought- go check out Austin Young and Poz bantam goal and assist stats- these guys can score!!!!!
The dream would be to actually have some leadership who take some risks, teach the kids that the team with MORE GOALS wins not the team who only loses by 1 or 2.
This defensive mentality and approach right from the get go, is very paralyzing to this team. The kids look SCARED TO DEATH to go in the wrong place or out of position, and once they get yelled at from the bench for roaming even a bit outside of the "boundry line" they look confused, then a guy gets open and the other team gets a scoring chance.
This team needs freedom, confidence, and support from their leadership and to be told, "hey guys, we got a hell of a goalie, our defenseman will do their job- forwards- go score goals," and you know what, if they CANT score goals, well they have all those 2-3 hour practices for the next 3 months for the coaches to teach them to score. Chances are that the kids who don't typically score goals or shoot, haven't been taught HOW TO SCORE! You can't get mad at them and say they "suck" or aren't deep- you have no clue what this team could do with an offensive agressive strategy...as they haven't explored that.
How good to you think some of those scorers would be if they were TOLD TO SHOOT, MAKE GOOD PASSES and SCORE? If that was their measure of a good game? It'd be unreal how much more they would produce. Instead, the whole team is "scared" of the other team, scared to go to the wrong place and scared to hit.
Let me know your thoughts. I'd like to see some SSP hockey of old, belief, confidence, toughness, a ton of shots, hits and a contagious excitement and positivity that fumes from the SSP bench and spreads to the players to the fans...
keywords: seils, huerta, horst, nadaeu, hoeger, young, kryzer, bonk, peta...
These guys could score, but they also had an approach that was OFFENSIVE in nature and their teammates didn't sit back on their heels!
It was fast, aggressive, confident hockey and you knew they ALWAYS had a chance to just bury a team.
Their leadership had them prepared to make OFFENSIVE plays, the POWERPLAY was awesome (anyone remember seils going across the middle from the sideboards and winding up goals left and right?), and those teams never looked scared.
Common factor: They all made it to the state tournament at one point...
Here's what SSP leadership needs to realize:
First, you have a D1 goalie in the net, trust that he won't give up more than 3 goals a game typically- and take that fact and run with it
B) Teach, support and induce positivity, Believe and give freedem to your scorers to shoot, make creative plays and motivate them for GOALS! Get every player on the team on the same page in terms of believe and confidence rather than fear and doubt- teach them about offense assuming THE DEFENSE WILL BE THERE! Think of the 5 on 3s other teams have had and STILL HAVENT SCORED ON COXXY
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packerpuck19
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:19 pm
derekanderson. Some good insight there. Here is what I have seen out of the Packers the past 10 years, and this year is no different, and although we would all love to see it change with the snap of a finger, its not going to.
I have probably seen half the games played by the Pack in the past 10 years, and it seems to be the same story every year. If you look at the teams that have come through SSP in that time there has been a great deal of Talent that has come through. Some D1 recruits, a large handfull that have gone on to play competitively at D3 schools, and another large handfull to play some kind of Junior hockey. To show for it, they have 1 state tournament appearance. One state tournament in which they could have played in the Championship game had there been a little foresight and control taken after tieing Breck (state champs) late in the third period, as Breck came back seconds later to regain the lead. I will agree that it seems to be boiling down to leadership. Where does the leadership come from? Well you have to have good solid captains for one, and you have to have a coach that all 20 guys on the roster respect as a leader, and buy into what they are trying to do as a team. By no means am i an expert, just a fan that has his own opinions on the situation as I am on the outside looking in. I feel that every year the packers look the best during the scrimmage fest that begins the year, and they seem to get worse after that. If you look at the games each year that they play teams twice a year, they never seem to have a situation that they may lose to a team the first time and then improve and beat them the second time around. If anything it is the other way around.
I feel that SSP has great tradition and a great rep as a hockey town, and a hardnosed team that will come right at you, and literally beat you up physically. But I think that they may take this stuff a little bit too much to heart. This is not the same game of hockey that it was 20 years ago. You cant come flying into the net and rip someones head off on the opposing team after the whistle. This is not an antimidation thing anymore in the game of hockey, its simply a stupid penalty that has costed your team. I feel that this type of play is not being addressed, and it hasnt ever been addressed, and for the past 10 years (stupid penalties) have been the Packers aquilies heel (spelling??).
The team that made it to the state tournament in 04 was stacked with talent, and that team took themselves to State. When we are talking about Nick Stalock, (St. Olaf standout), Al Stalock (San Jose Sharks), Mark Bernier (U of Nebraska Omaha), and 3 or 4 others to go on the play juniors and then on to D3 college. And that team never fullfilled their potential, and I feel that every team is very similar.
The future for SSP in next 10 years is probably not as bright as the past 10 years, and in my eyes SSP could have had 3 or 4 more State tourny teams in the past 10 years, but never really seemed to get much better throughout the year, and couldnt keep up with St. Thomas when it really mattered. The sad thing is that the talent level is going to go down in the future, and I just cant go to the rink and think "well maybe these guys are really going to turn into a solid team by years end". Ive tried to say that to myself for ten years now, and I havent seen a single team reach or exceed their potential, so why would i start now.
If you want to head down to Wakota arena and check out some old school hockey "like Eddie Shore", "YEAH, Like Eddie Shore!!!" and watch the maroon Sea overflow into the home penalty box, and watch the talented, offensive minded, and creative players that the Pack have to offer get held back and restricted to finding where there X is on the ice, then be my guest, but just consider yourself warned.
Always a Packer fan, and always want to see them do well. I have a great deal of pride for SSP hockey as there have been some greats come through, but Im also a realist, and have had these thoughts trained into my head over the past ten years.
I have probably seen half the games played by the Pack in the past 10 years, and it seems to be the same story every year. If you look at the teams that have come through SSP in that time there has been a great deal of Talent that has come through. Some D1 recruits, a large handfull that have gone on to play competitively at D3 schools, and another large handfull to play some kind of Junior hockey. To show for it, they have 1 state tournament appearance. One state tournament in which they could have played in the Championship game had there been a little foresight and control taken after tieing Breck (state champs) late in the third period, as Breck came back seconds later to regain the lead. I will agree that it seems to be boiling down to leadership. Where does the leadership come from? Well you have to have good solid captains for one, and you have to have a coach that all 20 guys on the roster respect as a leader, and buy into what they are trying to do as a team. By no means am i an expert, just a fan that has his own opinions on the situation as I am on the outside looking in. I feel that every year the packers look the best during the scrimmage fest that begins the year, and they seem to get worse after that. If you look at the games each year that they play teams twice a year, they never seem to have a situation that they may lose to a team the first time and then improve and beat them the second time around. If anything it is the other way around.
I feel that SSP has great tradition and a great rep as a hockey town, and a hardnosed team that will come right at you, and literally beat you up physically. But I think that they may take this stuff a little bit too much to heart. This is not the same game of hockey that it was 20 years ago. You cant come flying into the net and rip someones head off on the opposing team after the whistle. This is not an antimidation thing anymore in the game of hockey, its simply a stupid penalty that has costed your team. I feel that this type of play is not being addressed, and it hasnt ever been addressed, and for the past 10 years (stupid penalties) have been the Packers aquilies heel (spelling??).
The team that made it to the state tournament in 04 was stacked with talent, and that team took themselves to State. When we are talking about Nick Stalock, (St. Olaf standout), Al Stalock (San Jose Sharks), Mark Bernier (U of Nebraska Omaha), and 3 or 4 others to go on the play juniors and then on to D3 college. And that team never fullfilled their potential, and I feel that every team is very similar.
The future for SSP in next 10 years is probably not as bright as the past 10 years, and in my eyes SSP could have had 3 or 4 more State tourny teams in the past 10 years, but never really seemed to get much better throughout the year, and couldnt keep up with St. Thomas when it really mattered. The sad thing is that the talent level is going to go down in the future, and I just cant go to the rink and think "well maybe these guys are really going to turn into a solid team by years end". Ive tried to say that to myself for ten years now, and I havent seen a single team reach or exceed their potential, so why would i start now.
If you want to head down to Wakota arena and check out some old school hockey "like Eddie Shore", "YEAH, Like Eddie Shore!!!" and watch the maroon Sea overflow into the home penalty box, and watch the talented, offensive minded, and creative players that the Pack have to offer get held back and restricted to finding where there X is on the ice, then be my guest, but just consider yourself warned.
Always a Packer fan, and always want to see them do well. I have a great deal of pride for SSP hockey as there have been some greats come through, but Im also a realist, and have had these thoughts trained into my head over the past ten years.
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Goldfishdude
- Posts: 1596
- Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2009 4:41 pm
You guys echo the same things that get said on the north end of Hwy 61.
It almost APPEARS, and I may be wrong, that the fundamentals of TEAM hockey are dissappearing. This isn't any longer a case of "even a caveman can do it."
I have heard some say, and I tend to agree, that Elite teams, 4 on 4 leagues, etc, are the blame.
Elite leagues have kids of equal talent, that showcase skills, but a coach doesn't know the individual talent all that well, plus, with kids of equal talent, have a chance to make less mistakes on the ice. 4 on 4 leagues?? Kids just like to play to work on their INDIVIDUAL skills.
So what ends up happening is the egos of the elite league and the kids that haven't played extended hockey get together, the diversity of talent is further apart, the individual goals are different, and sometimes, team hockey isn't as important, and it is left up to the coaching staff to TEACH, to not tolerate selfish play, and that results in outsiders, like ourselves, in scratching our heads dumbfounded.
.. and Mikeanderson...... SOMETIMES, it's easier for kids, knowing that they have a goalie in Wilcox, to just simply sit back and expect him to make every save. Observe the play of the defense and backchecking when Wilcox is NOT in nets, and I bet you witness more intensity.
achilles - for future reference!
It almost APPEARS, and I may be wrong, that the fundamentals of TEAM hockey are dissappearing. This isn't any longer a case of "even a caveman can do it."
I have heard some say, and I tend to agree, that Elite teams, 4 on 4 leagues, etc, are the blame.
Elite leagues have kids of equal talent, that showcase skills, but a coach doesn't know the individual talent all that well, plus, with kids of equal talent, have a chance to make less mistakes on the ice. 4 on 4 leagues?? Kids just like to play to work on their INDIVIDUAL skills.
So what ends up happening is the egos of the elite league and the kids that haven't played extended hockey get together, the diversity of talent is further apart, the individual goals are different, and sometimes, team hockey isn't as important, and it is left up to the coaching staff to TEACH, to not tolerate selfish play, and that results in outsiders, like ourselves, in scratching our heads dumbfounded.
.. and Mikeanderson...... SOMETIMES, it's easier for kids, knowing that they have a goalie in Wilcox, to just simply sit back and expect him to make every save. Observe the play of the defense and backchecking when Wilcox is NOT in nets, and I bet you witness more intensity.
achilles - for future reference!
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Rocky Dennis
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:00 am
HA!
South St. Paul hockey has some serious problems. I disagree that a major problem is the talent coming through the program. The main problem is the lack of ability of the leadership to establish a team. They will consistently rely on 2-3 players to win the game for them. They never develop any of their players, including the ones they rely on to win the game for them. They seem to expect to be handed a state tournament team and blame the "lack of talent" when they don't make it. YOU HAVE TO DEVELOP A TEAM OF THAT CALIBER!!! Even professional teams have to develop a championship team. South St. Paul will always rely on the skills these kids have developed at 13,14,15 years old and that is insane. Hockey players continue to develop until roughly the age of 25!
I used to watch South St. Paul the past few years and went to a couple games this year. Same old story, only now it appears that they have gotten worse with it. They were consistently calling players to and from the bench between whistles and it looked like a circus. Their personnel situations were not prepared at all and it was completely obvious. I'm sure the PLAYERS were blamed for their loss when in fact the lack of preparation obviously started at the top.
I'm sorry...if you are a Packer hockey fan I suggest you find a new community to root for or you will endure constant frustration. They seem to still be running the same horrible forecheck with no tweaks or modifications that they have had for the past 30 years. Also, they can never break out of their zone...no one flies...no D to D, No Reverses, no hitting the center, no defenseman skating it out...NOTHING BUT A PASS TO THE WING TO GET KILLED BY A PINCHING D!!! And every team knows thats what they are going to do becasue they having been doing it for the last century.
If you really want your frustration to boil over...go watch them play a game against St. Thomas or Hill-Murray. They actually change their systems, which actually is a good start, but to play DEFENSIVELY!!! So they are going to try and hold off the best teams all game and pray that they get one lucky bounce to score on! I'm sorry but you cannot sit back and wait on teams like that. Anyone who knows anything about hockey, knows that the whole point of the 1980s victory over the Russians was THAT THEY ATTACKED THE RUSSIANS!!!!!! They took on the best team in the world and played aggressively against them and BEAT THEM!!!!!!
Like I said...South St. Paul has some serious issues and until these are addressed they will not be making it anywhere. Oh, the 2004 team made it to the State Tournament despite the leadership not because of it. A South St Paul big game victory today is tying or losing by 1-2 goals to a good team.
I used to watch South St. Paul the past few years and went to a couple games this year. Same old story, only now it appears that they have gotten worse with it. They were consistently calling players to and from the bench between whistles and it looked like a circus. Their personnel situations were not prepared at all and it was completely obvious. I'm sure the PLAYERS were blamed for their loss when in fact the lack of preparation obviously started at the top.
I'm sorry...if you are a Packer hockey fan I suggest you find a new community to root for or you will endure constant frustration. They seem to still be running the same horrible forecheck with no tweaks or modifications that they have had for the past 30 years. Also, they can never break out of their zone...no one flies...no D to D, No Reverses, no hitting the center, no defenseman skating it out...NOTHING BUT A PASS TO THE WING TO GET KILLED BY A PINCHING D!!! And every team knows thats what they are going to do becasue they having been doing it for the last century.
If you really want your frustration to boil over...go watch them play a game against St. Thomas or Hill-Murray. They actually change their systems, which actually is a good start, but to play DEFENSIVELY!!! So they are going to try and hold off the best teams all game and pray that they get one lucky bounce to score on! I'm sorry but you cannot sit back and wait on teams like that. Anyone who knows anything about hockey, knows that the whole point of the 1980s victory over the Russians was THAT THEY ATTACKED THE RUSSIANS!!!!!! They took on the best team in the world and played aggressively against them and BEAT THEM!!!!!!
Like I said...South St. Paul has some serious issues and until these are addressed they will not be making it anywhere. Oh, the 2004 team made it to the State Tournament despite the leadership not because of it. A South St Paul big game victory today is tying or losing by 1-2 goals to a good team.
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mikeanderson
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:14 am
Lets change the tone a bit. No one wants to be this to be a negative nancy blurb of the forum...and if the comments made so far lean to far that way so far, lets turn the page and talk more about the positives because there are a ton. Everyone wants good things for ssp (outside of the competitive schools ;)
Objectively, and to excentuate the positive, great goalie plus some potential scorers with some good defencemen- the shot is there...
What is the key in hockey to go from playing teams that are sort of "guaranteed victories" or "easy" teams and then going the next night to play the big boys...it seems that is what this section/conference is like-
What is the key to consistency throughout the year to keep the level of play at a high level that continues to grow & get better?
Reason being is that this section seems to really be that order at the end, first game (easier), second (middle) and finally the tough one is tough-
It'd be great to see them make it far this year and go to state!
A second thought- what is the bantam/feeder program like? Do thy still play in IGH or SSP- how does that affect who goes where schoolwise?
Objectively, and to excentuate the positive, great goalie plus some potential scorers with some good defencemen- the shot is there...
What is the key in hockey to go from playing teams that are sort of "guaranteed victories" or "easy" teams and then going the next night to play the big boys...it seems that is what this section/conference is like-
What is the key to consistency throughout the year to keep the level of play at a high level that continues to grow & get better?
Reason being is that this section seems to really be that order at the end, first game (easier), second (middle) and finally the tough one is tough-
It'd be great to see them make it far this year and go to state!
A second thought- what is the bantam/feeder program like? Do thy still play in IGH or SSP- how does that affect who goes where schoolwise?
There are some definite positives to the SSP HS program. There could be a lot more positives, though, and I think you and the other posters are definitely right in pointing that out. I always like to see 1st ring suburb teams have success, and SSP has had its share of success this decade. What will the next decade hold? Who knows, really.mikeanderson wrote:Lets change the tone a bit. No one wants to be this to be a negative nancy blurb of the forum...and if the comments made so far lean to far that way so far, lets turn the page and talk more about the positives because there are a ton. Everyone wants good things for ssp (outside of the competitive schools
Objectively, and to excentuate the positive, great goalie plus some potential scorers with some good defencemen- the shot is there...
What is the key in hockey to go from playing teams that are sort of "guaranteed victories" or "easy" teams and then going the next night to play the big boys...it seems that is what this section/conference is like-
What is the key to consistency throughout the year to keep the level of play at a high level that continues to grow & get better?
Reason being is that this section seems to really be that order at the end, first game (easier), second (middle) and finally the tough one is tough-
It'd be great to see them make it far this year and go to state!
A second thought- what is the bantam/feeder program like? Do thy still play in IGH or SSP- how does that affect who goes where schoolwise?
About the feeder system: After looking at the association website, it appears that they are combined through with IGH through all Bantam levels along with Pee Wee A...they are known as River Heights. SSP has had to combine Bantam teams for about 5 (?) years now with IGH and there seems to be no discernible difference to the HS team, while Simley has gone right down the drain after its state tournament appearance a few years back. Then that leads me to two theories:
1. The River Heights bantam A teams have featured a vast majority of SSP kids with a couple of IGH kids to fill the cracks.
2. Simley kids open enroll to SSP high school to play for a better team.
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packerpuck19
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:19 pm
I like the fact that we are changing gears here mikeanderson. I see a multitude of talent with this current team and would love to see it put to use. The thing that scares me and you have mentioned this is the fact that we can beat up on the weak teams with similar scores that the big boys do, but when it comes to playing the Hill Murrays, and the St. Thomas teams, it seems as though everybody goes into a shell, and plays with no confidence or aggression. Its almost as if they are being told pregame that this team is better than you, lets just try not to get embarrassed.
As far as the Bantam program of River Heights, I have seen quite a few games between the A and B Bantam teams, and I love the fact that they have combined associations. It gives the kids that will play Varsity anyway a chance to play against the big boys, (and compete with them) at an earlier age. They get a couple of years to see all the great teams, and players that are out there, instead of entering High school and getting shell shocked. One thing I have noticed with some of the strong players that SSP has to offer, and watching them come up through the ranks are the selfish tendencies that are formed at a young age are carrying into there high school years and time after time hurting the HS team. i.e. emotional penalties when something doesnt go your way, slamming and breaking sticks on the bench when something doesnt go your way. meaningless penalties in the offensive zone (often on the power play), not backchecking, and the list goes on. These types of things are coming from guys that are supposed to be leaders and all they are doing is physically, and mentally hurting the team on a daily basis, and I have watched this happen game in and game out from bantams to high school. Somewhere along the line somebody in charge of these kids has to take control and fix this problem once and for all, otherwise SSP will continue to underachieve.
As far as the Bantam program of River Heights, I have seen quite a few games between the A and B Bantam teams, and I love the fact that they have combined associations. It gives the kids that will play Varsity anyway a chance to play against the big boys, (and compete with them) at an earlier age. They get a couple of years to see all the great teams, and players that are out there, instead of entering High school and getting shell shocked. One thing I have noticed with some of the strong players that SSP has to offer, and watching them come up through the ranks are the selfish tendencies that are formed at a young age are carrying into there high school years and time after time hurting the HS team. i.e. emotional penalties when something doesnt go your way, slamming and breaking sticks on the bench when something doesnt go your way. meaningless penalties in the offensive zone (often on the power play), not backchecking, and the list goes on. These types of things are coming from guys that are supposed to be leaders and all they are doing is physically, and mentally hurting the team on a daily basis, and I have watched this happen game in and game out from bantams to high school. Somewhere along the line somebody in charge of these kids has to take control and fix this problem once and for all, otherwise SSP will continue to underachieve.
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mikeanderson
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:14 am
Thanks for the post...though most fans in general are not terribly informed or up-to-date with the IGH/SSP merger in the youth, it struck curiousity when a couple years back when hearing that was the direction things were going.
There was always a rivalry between SSP hockey and Simley hockey, which was competitive (at times) and fun to watch for us parents, the fans & the coaches to be a part of as the communities are so close. Though there's been blurbs on this about SSP hockey with various feedback about their team(s)- - the great thing is that SSP HAS the ability to improve and get better- and a strong group of kids who can improve can go as far as they want- but it sounds like Simley is really far away from that.
When talking about ssp hockey, it is important to look at it's former rivals and close communities also and the youth program because then you can talk about where things will go moving forward.
However, are the kids from the youth program then "pushed" or directed in any way as to which school they should attend? Or how does that work then?
And with that in mind it seems apparent that you bring up the idea of open enrollment versus the idea of the private schools. Any thoughts on years ago when the majority of the kids played for the school and town they lived in?
There was always a rivalry between SSP hockey and Simley hockey, which was competitive (at times) and fun to watch for us parents, the fans & the coaches to be a part of as the communities are so close. Though there's been blurbs on this about SSP hockey with various feedback about their team(s)- - the great thing is that SSP HAS the ability to improve and get better- and a strong group of kids who can improve can go as far as they want- but it sounds like Simley is really far away from that.
When talking about ssp hockey, it is important to look at it's former rivals and close communities also and the youth program because then you can talk about where things will go moving forward.
However, are the kids from the youth program then "pushed" or directed in any way as to which school they should attend? Or how does that work then?
And with that in mind it seems apparent that you bring up the idea of open enrollment versus the idea of the private schools. Any thoughts on years ago when the majority of the kids played for the school and town they lived in?
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mikeanderson
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:14 am
Packerpuck19- my original post was geared toward Brandy so I'll direct this one toward you.
About changing tones, hey in all fairness we were posting interest in and thoughts about ssp hockey-but it's not to be taken as a negative or criticizing blurb so we want to really hammer the positives too!
A great point that you made regarding the youth was that the players are able to compete and against the better competition, even though it is a hybrid of SSP and IGH players. If the numbers just aren't there in each individual community to be competitive, then yes it is a great thing that they combined the programs to allow the kids to develop with better players and compete with the big boys in preparation for high school.
So tell me, regarding penalties and you brought this up before- how do you think you stop penalties if it is like you say where the kids have done it for years before in youth our whatever?
Also, packerpuck, is it important to say that there are different types of penalties...for example, a good penalty would be tripping a guy on a breakway during a tie game and 50/50 they give him the penalty shot which is decided if he truly was obviously ALONE on the play versus the whistle blowing or if you are on a powerplay and you go elbow someone in the jaw?
Whats the best way to control penalties in your opinion...
About changing tones, hey in all fairness we were posting interest in and thoughts about ssp hockey-but it's not to be taken as a negative or criticizing blurb so we want to really hammer the positives too!
A great point that you made regarding the youth was that the players are able to compete and against the better competition, even though it is a hybrid of SSP and IGH players. If the numbers just aren't there in each individual community to be competitive, then yes it is a great thing that they combined the programs to allow the kids to develop with better players and compete with the big boys in preparation for high school.
So tell me, regarding penalties and you brought this up before- how do you think you stop penalties if it is like you say where the kids have done it for years before in youth our whatever?
Also, packerpuck, is it important to say that there are different types of penalties...for example, a good penalty would be tripping a guy on a breakway during a tie game and 50/50 they give him the penalty shot which is decided if he truly was obviously ALONE on the play versus the whistle blowing or if you are on a powerplay and you go elbow someone in the jaw?
Whats the best way to control penalties in your opinion...
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mikeanderson
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:14 am
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packerpuck19
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:19 pm
mikeanderson, to answer your question on how to control penalties, i will say that everything in the game of hockey is always situational, and by no means am I an expert on this, but in my mind hockey players are molded by habit. If Player X has a habit of entering the corner to hit someone with his stick straight up in the air and his elbows up hes going to get called for high sticking or elbowing about 30% of the time. Now if he comes back to the bench and the coach sits him and tells him what an idiot he is, and thats it, then this player will have not learned his lesson here, because he was never informed in detail as to what exactly he did wrong. He entered the situation being aggressive and taking the body. Everything else in his head is a blur, in turn, he had fallen back on habit. This will force him to get angry and begin to resent the person whom reprimanded him for his fault.
In my mind if you see the pattern forming where Player X gets his hands and stick up when he goes to hit someone, you need to go over this with him in great detail and explain the proper way to take a body. A way that is physical, and efficient, telling him to work on this every time he takes a body in practice (forming this to be a new habit). If Player X goes on without listening and without fixing the problem, and continues to get elbowing penalties, now when the coach sits him and yells at him he will know exactly why, and will then be a usefull enforcement of his power.
To tie this into the situation at SSP I have seen these small habits in these kids since they were Pee Wees and bantams, and nobody has shown them the proper way, and in turn when yelled at by a coach to quit taking stupid penalties, it turns to immediate resentment towards the coaching staff, and begins a vicious cycle.
Going back to one of Rocky Dennis's comments, which by the way is an interesting screen name, of the coaches want to be handed a state tournament team. I agree, as nobody wants to take to initiative to be the first to teach some of these kids basic skills. Everybody assumes that every player should know how to hit at the high school level, and they probably should, but there bantam coach probably said the same thing about being a bantam age player, and that they should know how to do this by now. Once you are left to play the way for years that you have trained your brain to play, it is difficult to tell someone that they have been doing it wrong all along.
Which leads me to my next point that you need to have a program which starts in the youth and goes all the way up that is all on the same page. That is committed to doing the "right things", and that is the only way to get the ball rolling in the right direction, and I just dont believe between the River Heights, South St. Paul, and Inver Grove Heights associations, and into the high school teams, that they have the proper leaders in place. It could be from lack of the right people being interested in helping out at the proper postitions or what it is, but it seems clear to me that these SSP kids are not being brought through the ranks by the proper personell, and however far they make it in there hockey careers is from talent alone, and thats a sad fact.
In my mind if you see the pattern forming where Player X gets his hands and stick up when he goes to hit someone, you need to go over this with him in great detail and explain the proper way to take a body. A way that is physical, and efficient, telling him to work on this every time he takes a body in practice (forming this to be a new habit). If Player X goes on without listening and without fixing the problem, and continues to get elbowing penalties, now when the coach sits him and yells at him he will know exactly why, and will then be a usefull enforcement of his power.
To tie this into the situation at SSP I have seen these small habits in these kids since they were Pee Wees and bantams, and nobody has shown them the proper way, and in turn when yelled at by a coach to quit taking stupid penalties, it turns to immediate resentment towards the coaching staff, and begins a vicious cycle.
Going back to one of Rocky Dennis's comments, which by the way is an interesting screen name, of the coaches want to be handed a state tournament team. I agree, as nobody wants to take to initiative to be the first to teach some of these kids basic skills. Everybody assumes that every player should know how to hit at the high school level, and they probably should, but there bantam coach probably said the same thing about being a bantam age player, and that they should know how to do this by now. Once you are left to play the way for years that you have trained your brain to play, it is difficult to tell someone that they have been doing it wrong all along.
Which leads me to my next point that you need to have a program which starts in the youth and goes all the way up that is all on the same page. That is committed to doing the "right things", and that is the only way to get the ball rolling in the right direction, and I just dont believe between the River Heights, South St. Paul, and Inver Grove Heights associations, and into the high school teams, that they have the proper leaders in place. It could be from lack of the right people being interested in helping out at the proper postitions or what it is, but it seems clear to me that these SSP kids are not being brought through the ranks by the proper personell, and however far they make it in there hockey careers is from talent alone, and thats a sad fact.