Rule for school tranfers?

[DeeDee]

Get your facts straight. The kid was never cut from AHA. He made the JV as a freshman and again as a sophmore. The family had to leave the school due to financial reasons.

[starmvp]

So the financial crisis occurs the day after tryouts end?

[PoniesDad45]

So the financial crisis occurs the day after tryouts end?

[bluedevils]

Thanks Jerry,

That's known as the "rent an apartment" loophole. The loophole isn't really renting it, it's that mom, dad, dog, brothers and sisters aren't all living there. In many instances it's a second residence not a change of residence.

Seems selfish, weird and disruptive to me. Classic, let's bring in some players and families with issues.

Which programs are winners of questionable roster tactics this year?

well that's Duluth Marshall!

[observer]

I believe privates do have designated attendance areas. Someone else will have to explain but it may be the same attendance area as the public school where the private is located. Holy Angels in Richfield, SPA in Highland, etc. It doesn't make a lot of difference because the switch from a private to a public (financial hardship) and the transfer from a public to a private (academic opportunity not received at the current public) seem to be two of the easiest to get cleared. The change of address is a problem as no one can confirm if entire families (husband, wife, player, brothers, sisters, dog) have in fact left their old community, sold the house, bought a new one and entire family has moved to new address in a new district. One parent, player, and an apartment seems to be working for some.

Questionable transfer tactic leaders,

Duluth Marshall
Holy Angels
Hopkins Girls

I also see an interesting trend as more students are definitely making their choice as they enter 9th grade. That's when a student truly has the freedom to select whichever school they like. What's interesting is the number earning varsity positions as 9th graders while still having bantam eligibility. Or even skating JV (25 games) as opposed to bantam (50 games). Some of these spots seem almost guaranteed at the expense of 11th and 12th graders getting cut. Several spots are deserved but some seem curious. You never know all the details as maybe the junior or senior is a big pain in the neck of has reached their high end as opposed to the 9th grader. It's downright ruthless at the privates when you're paying 10-15-$25,000 a year. It's taken a couple of years but there are more 9th graders on varsity rosters this year than last and I expect to see that number grow again next year. In the race to constantly improve that will continue to cost current sophomore, juniors and seniors their positions.

[pioneers]

[quote="observer"]I believe privates do have designated attendance areas.


The private schools do not have designated attendance areas. That was something that was discussed, but was not included in the final rule.

[Edgy]

There are rules for things like these - and if no rules are broken and the kid is good enough to play - it is the coaches decision to play him or not. In the PL situation, it looks like the player is clearly good enough to play even at varsity. The parents complaining about their kid not getting enough ice as a result of this - or their kid being better are most likely not very objective. I just checked the record and looks like PL is having a decent year and is currently 9 - 2. Looks like the coaches are doing things to make the program better.

[lxhockey]

Rumour is that MSHSL ruled to give the kid a waiver from having to play JV at PL this year and now he is playing on varisty there. I wonder what kind of financial hardship you have to come up with to get MSHSL to waive their own transfer rule? Seems to me this will now be the precedent more will follow. Sure hope the financial hardship doesn't prevent them from contributing to the PL fundraising (which I'm sure was held before tryouts that this player did not attend!!)

Must be a bit of anger building in that parent section. At least the AD and coaches have the MSHSL taking the brunt of it.

[observer]

That's a big can of worms. Parents need to make a choice and stick with it. Private schools are expensive and are attracting a lot of hockey players. Careful before you think your son will make the team. Even if he does they're bringing in more 9th graders next year and he may be cut then.

This would lead me to believe my son can attend a private school hockey tryout, not be selected, and then return to a public high school and play varsity without penalty. They should have enforced their own rule. This player should have played JV this season. I know some kids at other schools that are playing JV to comply with the rules. You suppose they're calling the MSHSL today?

Fussers and babies getting their way.

Questionable transfer tactic leaders,

Duluth Marshall
Holy Angels
Prior Lake
Hopkins Girls

[lxhockey]

Maybe more of the moral majority should call the MSHSL and inquire/complain about the rumored waiver granted. But the player is on the varsity stats sheet for the past couple games.

[Buck50]

Kids should be able to transfer where they want, no matter what grade they are in, at the beginning of the school year and then live with it for the full year . But, there is always more to the situation than you think you see from the outside, so people who make blanket statements or judgements should be careful to have all the facts.

[hockey74]

This rule does have some holes. I do know of a few players who's parents put their house up for sale (still are) and moved into an apt. in another school district so their child can play for another school. These were varsity players. I don't know if this is part of the transfer rule, but...WOW!

[goldy313]

I also see an interesting trend as more students are definitely making their choice as they enter 9th grade. That's when a student truly has the freedom to select whichever school they like. What's interesting is the number earning varsity positions as 9th graders while still having bantam eligibility. Or even skating JV (25 games) as opposed to bantam (50 games). Some of these spots seem almost guaranteed at the expense of 11th and 12th graders getting cut. Several spots are deserved but some seem curious. You never know all the details as maybe the junior or senior is a big pain in the neck of has reached their high end as opposed to the 9th grader. It's downright ruthless at the privates when you're paying 10-15-$25,000 a year. It's taken a couple of years but there are more 9th graders on varsity rosters this year than last and I expect to see that number grow again next year. In the race to constantly improve that will continue to cost current sophomore, juniors and seniors their positions.

At least three times in the last 3 seasons our school district has had parents say either my kid is on varisty or we're leaving. So it seems like a twist on college hockey where either you take a 18 year old who isn't ready for the WCHA yet or risk losing him to another school who can wait and 3 years down the line regret not taking him. So you end up with kids eating up roster spots and ice time when they clearly aren't ready to play at that level because the coaches are afraid to lose the kid and probably all his siblings as well.

That said I prefer the rule the way it is now versus the free agency system we had a couple of years ago. At least now the parents only really have leverage once.

[trippedovertheblueline]

not a good start off the rink for the new coaching staff. Hopefully this and the other conflicts of interests won't come to a head.

[Edgy]

Seems to be something else there - maybe someones kids aren't getting the ice time "parents" think they should get. If they haven't broken the rules - which there are loop holes - it is the schools and coaches choices. Seems like an ice time issue driving most of the conversation around this - and honestly, the players on the bench are not as strong as the transfered player in the case that started this string. No rules broken, a better player playing - time to move on.

[lxhockey]

Rules are rules. Plan around them up front or take the consequences. MSHSL made this rule and looks like they are not upholding it.

[HShockeywatcher]

Say you live in Burnsville (only example I know) where the high school is 10-12 and decide you want to open enroll to a near by high school for your 9th grade year, make varsity, but really don't like the school. Is there consequence for coming back and starting at Burnsville as a 10th grader at the beginning of high school there?

Seems very odd to me how much Holy Angels get brought up when there has never been any wrongdoing on their part I've read about or heard about. They have a good AA program, lots of kids in the metro want to play there, not everyone can.

Without sounding like a jerk, these are sports; why do we care about the feelings of the 3rd best 4th liner on JV? Yes, I agree students shouldn't be able to transfer mid season for sports reasons, but the feelings of the kid who will get pushed off the team? Come on. That's like saying we should make a varsity roster 40 kids so more kids can feel like they made it but never play.

[goldy313]

You've got to be kidding, when AHA was in it's glory it was getting kids transferring in from other schools for 1 or 2 years. One kid made AHA his 3rd varsity program in 4 years. It was legal then but they along with Apple Valley wrestling, Hopkins and Minneapolis North boys basketball, and Kennedy girls basketball were the poster children for high school free agency. It wasn't wrong but it sure wasn't right either.

Why should you care about a fourth liner or a JV kid? Maybe because in most cases their parents are actually paying taxes to the school district where as an open enrollee isn't. Just my opinion but be it math, physics, band or hockey people who actually pay school taxes in the district should get first dibs on seats and spots in those classes. It's awfully easy to vote down every school referendum in your district then send your kid to a district that provides all the bells and whistles.

[pioneers]

[quote="HShockeywatcher"]Say you live in Burnsville (only example I know) where the high school is 10-12 and decide you want to open enroll to a near by high school for your 9th grade year, make varsity, but really don't like the school. Is there consequence for coming back and starting at Burnsville as a 10th grader at the beginning of high school there?

Yes, the rule states you must enroll by ninth grade to not be considered a transfer. A 10th grader moving would be considered a transfer ans therefore would need to sit for a year or play JV

[hockey74]

Say you live in Burnsville (only example I know) where the high school is 10-12 and decide you want to open enroll to a near by high school for your 9th grade year, make varsity, but really don't like the school. Is there consequence for coming back and starting at Burnsville as a 10th grader at the beginning of high school there?

Seems very odd to me how much Holy Angels get brought up when there has never been any wrongdoing on their part I've read about or heard about. They have a good AA program, lots of kids in the metro want to play there, not everyone can.

Without sounding like a jerk, these are sports; why do we care about the feelings of the 3rd best 4th liner on JV? Yes, I agree students shouldn't be able to transfer mid season for sports reasons, but the feelings of the kid who will get pushed off the team? Come on. That's like saying we should make a varsity roster 40 kids so more kids can feel like they made it but never play.

My understanding is when the students moves back...he/she has to play JV for the next year. I could be wrong though!

[Nonamer]

Then there are transfers that transfer just because they have issues with their current coach. I entirely agree with this scenario, especially if there is a history of family/player abuse.

I'd do it with my kid if I found myself in that situation.

[hockey hall dad]

[quote="lxhockey"]Sounds more to me that the player's dad needs his son to make a team. So if he can't make the team of choice he will bully his son's way onto a team that at least his son has friends on. Good for the kids, they will enjoy their teammates. Too bad for the parents who are now forced to deal with another bully in their midst.

If I were a parent involved with the PLHS hockey program I would certainly question both the coach and the AD how this could happen after tryouts. The only legit reason I could see is that comething financially coincidently happened to the family after tryouts that would not permit the family to make financial obligations to AHA.[/quote][quothis This young man is learning that rules do not apply to him. this is the 2nd time in the last 2 years he has made the highest level team without trying out. in A bantams he was put on the A team without trying out when kids like other kids have been either threatened to be put on C teams when they had injuries regardless of whether they had dr notes. i personally had to have my kid participate in tryouts with a sprained ankle one year because he did not want to play C hockey.it is time for this type of thing to stop. I already know this kid is a Eddie Haskell type of kid who tells adults one thing and is a complete Jerk when he gets around his buddies. It is too bad that kids that actually work hard on themselves and try to improve need to deal with this. This actually makes me mad because I know my kid had the same amount of points as this kid playing JV hockey last year and people treat him like he is an all star.[/quote]

[hockey hall dad]

[quote="Edgy"]There are rules for things like these - and if no rules are broken and the kid is good enough to play - it is the coaches decision to play him or not. In the PL situation, it looks like the player is clearly good enough to play even at varsity. The parents complaining about their kid not getting enough ice as a result of this - or their kid being better are most likely not very objective. I just checked the record and looks like PL is having a decent year and is currently 9 - 2. Looks like the coaches are doing things to make the program better.[/quote] first, i did not read anything about ice time in these complaints or the coaching abilities. but maybe you should look at the article about eden prairie state championship team in lets play hockey jan 14 edition. there is no way there should have been this few of cuts made this year at pl and maybe people should worry more about that or why several jv and other a, b and c bantams from last year did not tryout. i personally am glad the pl teams are winning right now but am very concerned that future years will be affected by this type of grandstanding behavior.

[lxhockey]

Wow!!! I had no idea this pattern existed with this kid and parents. More fuel to the rest of the parents animosity I suspect. But also, I don't think either the MSHL or AD or HS coach is aware of past patterns. That is why I think MSHSL is at fault for not upholding their own rule.

Edgy keeps saying no rules have been broken. That is incorrect. The transfer rule has been broken, but MSHSL is giving them a free pass on it.
WHY???

[Edgy]

........there are loop holes that allowed the transfer. Having some (although very little) knowledge of the program in question, the kids that got cut couldn't make the JV team - thus they were cut. I know some of the better kids that were cut and the kids that made it are better. I don't have a horse in this race so it doesn't matter to me - just find the interesting thing about objectivity, some people think there kids are better than they are. Happens at every level of youth sports. Having been around youth sports for a long time, the top reason parents complain is their kid isn't getting playing time - probably the same thing that started this sting, looking at how it got started.