*Revised* AA Rankings for 1/10/10

[chester1991]

Nope, they've been around for a while. Sometimes they're just called "North," I believe. They're in the Classic Suburban. Here's their page on the Hub: http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/page/show/51986

Karl. FYI It's North St. Paul. There is no school called St.Paul North. I've just never seen it as St.Paul North.

[got some]

Watch List
White Bear Lake (8-5)
-Win over Cretin gives them the inside track in the muddled SEC. They have some nice credentials, but I’m waiting for a little more consistency before pushing them up.

A White Bear win over cretin gives the Bears 'the inside track in the muddled SEC'???

Perhaps you should pull your head out of D.C. and pay better attention.

If you look at the current SEC standings below (along with overall records) you will notice that White Bear does not quite have 'the inside track in the muddled SEC'.

Cretin 6-1-0 (9-3-0)
Woodbury 5-1-1 (7-6-1)
WBL 5-1-0 (8-5-0)
Stillwater 3-3-1 (5-7-1)
Forest Lake 3-1-2 (5-3-2)
Mounds View 3-4-0 (6-5-2)
Hastings 3-4-0 (6-7-0)
Roseville 2-4-1 (4-8-1)
Park 1-5-1 (2-9-1)
East Ridge 0-7-0 (3-10-0)

Theres the bitter wbmd that I've been missing around the forums lately!

[playerplayer1]

So Jefferson beats Wayzata but they are now 5 spots behind them. They have 1 bad loss to LV North, that is it. With Eagan running things the way they are you can't possibly take that as a bad loss. Your rankings are very detailed and pretty good but putting Jefferson at #12 is hideous. East and Wayzata are also too high, 1 good game out of 6 shouldn't move you up in the standings.

Schwang,
I agree with you as well. Everyone is bound to have a bad game every once in awhile. Heck, they outshot LN something like 40-24 so it's not like they were outplayed really bad. East should definitely be behind Jefferson. I've seen both teams play and Jefferson would win at minimum 6 out of 10 games against DE this year. Just like one good win by Eagan didn't move them up earlier in the year, one bad loss shouldn't knock the Jags down so much. I kind of like flipflopping DE and Jefferson. Eagan is proving the loss to them wasn't a bad loss either.

[karl(east)]

So Jefferson beats Wayzata but they are now 5 spots behind them. They have 1 bad loss to LV North, that is it. With Eagan running things the way they are you can't possibly take that as a bad loss. Your rankings are very detailed and pretty good but putting Jefferson at #12 is hideous. East and Wayzata are also too high, 1 good game out of 6 shouldn't move you up in the standings.

They also have a tie against Centennial, and while Eagan isn't a bad loss, it's not the same as a loss to Tonka or Edina. This is a bit low, but as I explained in the comment, this team has a lot to prove. Overly harsh? Perhaps. But I have seen Jefferson play, and I think they're not where they should be yet, so the rankings reflect that. But if I were a Jefferson fan, I sure wouldn't be satisfied with the results so far this season. Some people do seem to agree with me, too.

As for East, I'll offer this. I am willing to make a change, but I need a compelling reason to put other teams in front of them. Why is Roseau/Osseo/Benilde/anyone better than East? Re-rank all the teams between 8-12, if you like (I'm not changing anything else).

Since these rankings are for today, you have until midnight CST. I'll weigh the cases at that point and decide if I want to make a change.

Have fun!

[northwoods oldtimer]

Lakeville North doubles their goal scoring output against Jefferson. I agree with Karl that for this week at least Jefferson should plummet probably to 8 or 10 spot. They DO have a ton of talent on that team to give up 6 against a team (LN) that generally does not put up 6 especially against a top flight caliber team in Jefferson. That game right now is the nail in the coffin to bump them down, 12 is pretty hard fall. I would say Roseau remains out of the top 10 for now at least due to schedule which of late has been real light. Roseau failing to win the ND tournament is enough to keep them out of top 10 for now when mirrored with the light schedule. Rams schedule ramps up a bit in next couple of weeks with Warroad, Bemidji and Spuds. We need to get some Andover folks on here to sound off about their very solid start so that they can get "mojo" for a shot at top 15 list much like Eagan, only slight to Andover is they have not played any top 10 teams yet so are still a bit of an enigma. Handled by the Elks early and tie to Maple Grove keeps them where they are to date. Tougher portion of NWSC schedule is coming up with Centennial, Blaine, Elks and non con with Duluth East will provide a better picture.

[HShockeywatcher]

Nope, they've been around for a while. Sometimes they're just called "North," I believe. They're in the Classic Suburban. Here's their page on the Hub: http://www.mnhockeyhub.com/page/show/51986

Karl. FYI It's North St. Paul. There is no school called St.Paul North. I've just never seen it as St.Paul North.

Wow, you guys are ridiculous. Is the high school really called "Duluth East"? No, it's 'East High School,' but happens to be in Duluth. This site refers to the Academy of Holy Angels as "Holy Angels," does anyone make a big stink about it? No. Etc, etc. Chill out. You obviously knew who he was talking about.

A personal message would have done just fine.

[Zamman]

My 2 cents are they need to shoot more and not try to be so cute. They have the ability to move inside, but need to shoot from outside and crash the net. Reilly did that yesterday and was able to get the second shot and score.

They head out east this week and I am kind of bummed I would have liked to go with. I had the opportunity but obligations prevent me to go.

[toptitty96]

So Jefferson beats Wayzata but they are now 5 spots behind them. They have 1 bad loss to LV North, that is it. With Eagan running things the way they are you can't possibly take that as a bad loss. Your rankings are very detailed and pretty good but putting Jefferson at #12 is hideous. East and Wayzata are also too high, 1 good game out of 6 shouldn't move you up in the standings.

They also have a tie against Centennial, and while Eagan isn't a bad loss, it's not the same as a loss to Tonka or Edina. This is a bit low, but as I explained in the comment, this team has a lot to prove. Overly harsh? Perhaps. But I have seen Jefferson play, and I think they're not where they should be yet, so the rankings reflect that. But if I were a Jefferson fan, I sure wouldn't be satisfied with the results so far this season. Some people do seem to agree with me, too.

As for East, I'll offer this. I am willing to make a change, but I need a compelling reason to put other teams in front of them. Why is Roseau/Osseo/Benilde/anyone better than East? Re-rank all the teams between 8-12, if you like (I'm not changing anything else).

Since these rankings are for today, you have until midnight CST. I'll weigh the cases at that point and decide if I want to make a change.

Have fun!

You also have to look at some of Jefferson's games vs. common opponents of those ranked above them. Eagan's "big win" over Apple Valley wasn't nearly as impressive as the 7 goal pounding that Jefferson handed them. And East just tied a mediocre Moorhead team that Jefferson beat 4-1. Although Jefferson tied to an up and down Centennial, that same Centennial beat BSM 7-2, and BSM is currently ranked ahead of the Jags. Not saying that Jefferson shouldn't drop a few spots, but I think the plummet to 12 and the threat to drop them out completely is a little ridiculous because of a 6-4 (EN) loss in a game where they outshot the opponent by 16.

[HShockeywatcher]

Karl,
Let me first start by saying I appreciate all of the time you put into doing these rankings. You really make some good points with most teams. That said I will have to disagree with you having Duluth East at number 8. While I understand they have had a tough schedule as of late, let's review their past few weeks. Lose to Tonka 6-2 (with Tonkas backup goalie in and outshot 27-17). Tie Blaine at home (good tie but one good game every few doesn't merit a top ten ranking). Barely beat Holy Angels 3-2 who didn't win a game in the Schwan's cup and got exposed. Got beat soundly by both Hill Murray and Edina 5-1 and 3-0 respectively and tied a now unranked and struggling Moorhead 2-2. That's 1-3-2 over the last 6 games. Now I saw them play two games and they did not look like even a top 15 team to me. Another thing I wanted to point out is over those last six games they have been outscored 20-10. Now ten goals in six games to me doesn't even merit a top twenty ranking, yet they move from 13 last week (which I thought was too high as well) to 8 this week? I don't see the logic in moving a team up 5 spots with a loss (and not a close one) and a tie? While I know you are a DE fan, I need to see a lot more from this team to merit a top top 10 ranking. I also need to see a quality win, not just a win. Thanks again for your time and effort and good luck the rest of the way to your Greyhounds!

BestHockeyFan- you took the words out of my mouth. East should not ranked 8th.

I could see them in the 12-15 range. 1-3-2 doesn't justify a move up!

They'll probably be 6-0 in their next six. It's the SOS, not the schedule alone. Four of those five ties and losses came against teams ranked above them. Moorhead is well, Moorhead; good but inconsistent in the last few years. They are ranked just fine.

[cuda701]

So Jefferson beats Wayzata but they are now 5 spots behind them. They have 1 bad loss to LV North, that is it. With Eagan running things the way they are you can't possibly take that as a bad loss. Your rankings are very detailed and pretty good but putting Jefferson at #12 is hideous. East and Wayzata are also too high, 1 good game out of 6 shouldn't move you up in the standings.

They also have a tie against Centennial, and while Eagan isn't a bad loss, it's not the same as a loss to Tonka or Edina. This is a bit low, but as I explained in the comment, this team has a lot to prove. Overly harsh? Perhaps. But I have seen Jefferson play, and I think they're not where they should be yet, so the rankings reflect that. But if I were a Jefferson fan, I sure wouldn't be satisfied with the results so far this season. Some people do seem to agree with me, too.

As for East, I'll offer this. I am willing to make a change, but I need a compelling reason to put other teams in front of them. Why is Roseau/Osseo/Benilde/anyone better than East? Re-rank all the teams between 8-12, if you like (I'm not changing anything else).

Since these rankings are for today, you have until midnight CST. I'll weigh the cases at that point and decide if I want to make a change.

Have fun!

Like you said it is harsh and low.....I have been quite impressed with your observations.....until now. Instead of looking at the overall picture - you decided to make a harsh change. I guess - this is what this forum is for (opinions), but you are punishing the team for this game? - you are not making a true assessment.

[Goldfishdude]

Karl, thank you for the SOS on Woodbury, and Lee's input from the other stat site.

From that perspective for the Other's to Watch, I would think the winner of Tuesday's WBL vs Woodbury clash would basically resolve any conflict.

Winner IN
Loser OUT

[playerplayer1]

So Jefferson beats Wayzata but they are now 5 spots behind them. They have 1 bad loss to LV North, that is it. With Eagan running things the way they are you can't possibly take that as a bad loss. Your rankings are very detailed and pretty good but putting Jefferson at #12 is hideous. East and Wayzata are also too high, 1 good game out of 6 shouldn't move you up in the standings.

They also have a tie against Centennial, and while Eagan isn't a bad loss, it's not the same as a loss to Tonka or Edina. This is a bit low, but as I explained in the comment, this team has a lot to prove. Overly harsh? Perhaps. But I have seen Jefferson play, and I think they're not where they should be yet, so the rankings reflect that. But if I were a Jefferson fan, I sure wouldn't be satisfied with the results so far this season. Some people do seem to agree with me, too.

As for East, I'll offer this. I am willing to make a change, but I need a compelling reason to put other teams in front of them. Why is Roseau/Osseo/Benilde/anyone better than East? Re-rank all the teams between 8-12, if you like (I'm not changing anything else).

Since these rankings are for today, you have until midnight CST. I'll weigh the cases at that point and decide if I want to make a change.

Have fun!

I really could care less where these teams are ranked but DE does not have a top ten victory all year while Jefferson and BSM have both beaten Wayzata and most of their wins are very convincing blowouts. Truth is top ten teams beat top ten teams and DE has not done that yet. Until they do they deserve to be outside the top ten. Again ONE win in their past SIX games does not constitute moving from 13 to 8 in one week. I don't care who they've played. Osseo is actually rated 7th in the pagestat rankings but to be honest I don't know much about either them or Roseau. Best of luck Karl. Regardless of what you do, I enjoy picking things apart. Thanks for that.

[besthockeyfan]

So Jefferson beats Wayzata but they are now 5 spots behind them. They have 1 bad loss to LV North, that is it. With Eagan running things the way they are you can't possibly take that as a bad loss. Your rankings are very detailed and pretty good but putting Jefferson at #12 is hideous. East and Wayzata are also too high, 1 good game out of 6 shouldn't move you up in the standings.

They also have a tie against Centennial, and while Eagan isn't a bad loss, it's not the same as a loss to Tonka or Edina. This is a bit low, but as I explained in the comment, this team has a lot to prove. Overly harsh? Perhaps. But I have seen Jefferson play, and I think they're not where they should be yet, so the rankings reflect that. But if I were a Jefferson fan, I sure wouldn't be satisfied with the results so far this season. Some people do seem to agree with me, too.

As for East, I'll offer this. I am willing to make a change, but I need a compelling reason to put other teams in front of them. Why is Roseau/Osseo/Benilde/anyone better than East? Re-rank all the teams between 8-12, if you like (I'm not changing anything else).

Since these rankings are for today, you have until midnight CST. I'll weigh the cases at that point and decide if I want to make a change.

Have fun!

Karl, Let me make this as easy as possible so nobody has to do much thinking about this. You ask, why are those other teams better than East? Simple answer. They won! DE did not. Neither of the teams in question has lost since last week's rankings except Jefferson but they in turn beat top ten Wayzata, so if you are going to put a lot of weight into the Jags loss to LN, you must put the same weight in their victory over Wayzata. Unless you made a mistake and meant to put DE at 8 last week, why would they move up when you yourself (nobody else) just last week had all those teams ahead of DE. Let's summarize, DE 0-1-1 last week, all teams they passed this week-ONE loss. End of story. Your rankings last week prove the point people are trying to make on here. DE should not have moved up. No need for anyone to go any further, Karl's rankings last week should speak for this week! (unless winning is less important than losing)

[karl(east)]

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, East did climb a long ways going 0-1-1, but that tie was a huge one. I didn't think they had a shot at tying Blaine at all, but they did. It was an impressive accomplishment, considering what they'd done against other top teams. It also makes them look a lot better in the common opponents game...both Osseo and Roseau, despite their weak schedules, are as high as they are primarily because they lost by one goal to Blaine. East's tie against Blaine, on the other hand, suggests they are better than these teams. I do not think my approach to this tie was inconsistent; Holy Angels also made a pretty big jump after tying Edina.

So that leaves us with Jefferson and Benilde vs. East. This boils down to an argument of consistency (East) vs. inconsistency (Jefferson, Benilde). Yes, Jefferson and Benilde have several that are more impressive than East's, but they also both have several that are much worse. There are two approaches to this; one can argue that the big wins show their potential and that the losses are just bumps in the road, or one can aruge that the losses show weakness and unreliability. Neither approach is right or wrong; I just happen to belong to the latter school of thought.

With all that said, I am considering a modest shift. I have noticed in the past that I occasionally overreact to negative results on Saturdays, so I'd be willing to move Jefferson up as high as #10 and slide everyone back from there. They do need to serve some sort of sentence for the LVN loss, though. I'd like to hear arguments both in favor of and against this move, since people have opined both ways on Jefferson.

A methodology note: I don't watch teams play and say "this is a top-10 team," or "this is a 15-20ish team." You never know which version of a team you're going to see on a given night, and I think the body of work is by far more important. I start by looking for the team with the best set of accomplishments, put them at 1, then look for the next best and put them at 2...and so on. If that means East falls at #8, even if I don't really think they have the talent to warrant that (and yes, I do think Benilde and Jefferson are more talented), I'm not going to fight it.

A final note: Benilde and Jefferson will have numerous opportunities over the coming weeks to climb in the rankings. East will not. The rankings reflect what each teams have accomplished through now. Just as I am not afraid to raise teams who suffer "good" losses or manage "good" ties, I am not afraid to drop a team (ie. East) whose wins are coming against less impressive competition.

[northwoods oldtimer]

Benilde and Jefferson will have numerous opportunities over the coming weeks to climb in the rankings. East will not.

Bulogna karl! East has to go on the road the next 2 weeks to play 3 sections opponents Grand Rapids, Elk River and Forest Lake than host Andover 29th of January. If they win those games their stock should rise, it is justified on account of the fact that all those teams are top 30 teams on PS2 and make the tier categories. You cannot dismiss top section opponent games when it comes to rankings, need I remind you, the games are very important. Those clubs will gun for East if they win outright it's a "no brainer" that they rise in rank. Comment: working a tough crowd of JAG faithful.

[ACDCfan]

Karl:
thanks for doing this. You inspire discussion. Now my two cents.

Wayzata is way too high. They have not beaten a ranked opponent since November. Their only two such games were lost to teams you have well behind them. They should not be ahead of either BSM or Jefferson. (If Eagan is top 10, then Jeff's loss is not a bad one, if HM is no 2, then BSM's early road tie should get as much weight as Wayzata early home win v. Edina). In any event, Wayzata does not deserve to be above the two teams that beat them head to head.

HM did not have two big wins. they beat an excellent Class A team STA and a .500 AA Tartan. Still a top five, though, IMHO. They can only beat teams that they play.

EP has losses to teams #1 and #2. They should be #3.

As to BSM and Jeff having chances to "prove it", think about this: If BSM beats Edina on Tuesday, they will have a claim to a top five spot (10-2-1 record, tied no. 2 HM, beat Wayzata, beat # 3 Edina-who beat EP-). Thus, one win could cascade them maybe eight spots. The same would be true if Jeff beats EP on 1.19. It seems like if these two teams are one win from the top five, they should be ranked higher than they are now.



Karl, for my money, you tend to give too much value to a "good loss" and not enough to a close win. East moves up at 0-1-1. Edina ties AHA (.500 against a very tough schedule) but stays top five. BSM and Jeff beat Wayzata but are told they still have to "prove it".

The object is to win. Your descriptions of teams ranked #3,5,7and 8 all begin with talking about problems they have had recently. To be a top ten team, you have to beat the teams you play, not just play them close. In HS, most teams don't get to chose their conference schedule.

Thanks again for all your work on this.

[karl(east)]

We've reached the deadline for switching. I am going to pull the Jefferson move and put them at 10.

ACDCfan, I think there is a good amount of truth in what you say about Wayzata. I'm going to keep them where they are for now, but I'll keep it mind for next week.

This is the first time I have changed a ranking due to reactions on the thread, and I am mildly concerned about the precedent it sets. Please do not think I am going to make a habit of this, or that I can be bullied into making changes if you yell loudly enough. (And I do not mean to sound harsh there; the vast majority of commenters have been very respectful and understanding.)

Please continue to comment. In the end, the conversation is far more enlightening than the numbers. Just because something isn't taken into account this week doesn't mean it won't be next week, if I truly think it is the right move.

[Goldfishdude]

We've reached the deadline for switching. I am going to pull the Jefferson move and put them at 10.

ACDCfan, I think there is a good amount of truth in what you say about Wayzata. I'm going to keep them where they are for now, but I'll keep it mind for next week.

This is the first time I have changed a ranking due to reactions on the thread, and I am mildly concerned about the precedent it sets. Please do not think I am going to make a habit of this, or that I can be bullied into making changes if you yell loudly enough. (And I do not mean to sound harsh there; the vast majority of commenters have been very respectful and understanding.)

Please continue to comment. In the end, the conversation is far more enlightening than the numbers. Just because something isn't taken into account this week doesn't mean it won't be next week, if I truly think it is the right move.

The thing is Karl, I believe that the vast majority of us realize that what you do is #1) for FUN!!! #2) You're not getting paid. #3) You don't have a kid playing. #4) You don't even live in the state 9 months of the year!

The point is that it's about discussion....

You have never discouraged input. And the input provided is and should be intended to give you something to get further information on something you may have overlooked.. or maybe have gotten a different perspective... but the point is that this is meant to be FUN!!

KARL, DON'T EVER FEEL YOU HAVE TO CHANGE ANOTHER RANKINGS AGAIN... and please, folks, don't tell him he needs to adjust the rankings.. give your feedback, and Karl will roll with it. And then when the games happen during the week, either send him a PM or make sure you can state your case on the game thread, if there is one.

let's also factor in this.... ummmmm..

Are we as parents running to our kids' locker rooms and saying.. "Hey, Karl from East has got you guys ranked 10th!".. Hell.. I look at LPH or whomever, and say... 'So What... Go out and win and shut up."

This is a discussion board folks... not gospel.. take it for what the intent and purpose is..

And OH... It's Karl's rankings, and if he wanted to make East #1 so be it!! We could just remind him when East is knocked out in sections that East was never #1.

[schwang17]

We've reached the deadline for switching. I am going to pull the Jefferson move and put them at 10.

ACDCfan, I think there is a good amount of truth in what you say about Wayzata. I'm going to keep them where they are for now, but I'll keep it mind for next week.

This is the first time I have changed a ranking due to reactions on the thread, and I am mildly concerned about the precedent it sets. Please do not think I am going to make a habit of this, or that I can be bullied into making changes if you yell loudly enough. (And I do not mean to sound harsh there; the vast majority of commenters have been very respectful and understanding.)

Please continue to comment. In the end, the conversation is far more enlightening than the numbers. Just because something isn't taken into account this week doesn't mean it won't be next week, if I truly think it is the right move.

The thing is Karl, I believe that the vast majority of us realize that what you do is #1) for FUN!!! #2) You're not getting paid. #3) You don't have a kid playing. #4) You don't even live in the state 9 months of the year!

The point is that it's about discussion....

You have never discouraged input. And the input provided is and should be intended to give you something to get further information on something you may have overlooked.. or maybe have gotten a different perspective... but the point is that this is meant to be FUN!!

KARL, DON'T EVER FEEL YOU HAVE TO CHANGE ANOTHER RANKINGS AGAIN... and please, folks, don't tell him he needs to adjust the rankings.. give your feedback, and Karl will roll with it. And then when the games happen during the week, either send him a PM or make sure you can state your case on the game thread, if there is one.

let's also factor in this.... ummmmm..

Are we as parents running to our kids' locker rooms and saying.. "Hey, Karl from East has got you guys ranked 10th!".. Hell.. I look at LPH or whomever, and say... 'So What... Go out and win and shut up."

This is a discussion board folks... not gospel.. take it for what the intent and purpose is..

And OH... It's Karl's rankings, and if he wanted to make East #1 so be it!! We could just remind him when East is knocked out in sections that East was never #1.

Yeah, Karl, thanks for letting us kill you each week with your rankings.

Jefferson is better than both #10 and#12, you know it and so does everybody else. The game vs. EP is huge, obviously, and they won't win playing the way they have of late. I am also with the Wayzata talk, I think they're a little high on the list as well, at the same time I couldn't think of who would be ahead of them with the exception of Jefferson and they would already be ahead of them on my list anyway. Personally, I would put Jefferson at 6 with Eagan, Wayzata, Roseau and East right behind them. That being said, we will learn alot more about these 6-10 teams in the coming weeks, you can bet on that.

[Slap Shot]

karl - question about your SOS ratings. I'm surprised to see that much separation between Tonka's and Edina's. Yes, MHS did play PCG, Hibbing and Virginia, but Edina played St. Louis Park and Chaska/Chan, and they seem to have played an even number of games again mid-level and high-level teams.

Not a big deal in the end but I did find to be curious.

[ACDCfan]

Karl:
By the way, your "needs" descriptions were almost all right on. I have not seen all of the top teams, but have seen most of them. Nice job.

[wildnorthstarz]

[quote="Pioneerprideguy"]HShockey dude,

I totally agree that Hill should not be considered an elite team. In fact, I think they should opt down to play Class A. Who knows, maybe then they would be considered an elite team??

No SHOT

[BodyShots]

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, East did climb a long ways going 0-1-1, but that tie was a huge one. I didn't think they had a shot at tying Blaine at all, but they did. It was an impressive accomplishment, considering what they'd done against other top teams. It also makes them look a lot better in the common opponents game...both Osseo and Roseau, despite their weak schedules, are as high as they are primarily because they lost by one goal to Blaine. East's tie against Blaine, on the other hand, suggests they are better than these teams. I do not think my approach to this tie was inconsistent; Holy Angels also made a pretty big jump after tying Edina.

Karl, I love what you provide us with these rankings and agree with you most of the time. But when reading these comments, a couple of things struck me as odd. First off, I think you are putting way to much stock in Blaine. I've seen them twice on TV and have not been impressed either time. Allthough the score was close against Mtka, they were clearly outplayed and Horner was the only reason they had a chance. Against DE (who is good but not great), Blaine really looked bad. Their defense was atrocious at controlling the puck and breaking it out of their own zone. Who knows, maybe they would consider this their "bad" game.

A final note: Benilde and Jefferson will have numerous opportunities over the coming weeks to climb in the rankings. East will not. The rankings reflect what each teams have accomplished through now. Just as I am not afraid to raise teams who suffer "good" losses or manage "good" ties, I am not afraid to drop a team (ie. East) whose wins are coming against less impressive competition.

Are you saying if a team wins the rest of their games, they could drop in the standings? Is score differential the driving force? Do we have to run up scores like college football in order to get top rankings. IMO, if you beat the teams put in front of you, you should not drop in the rankings. Maybe not rise, but definately not drop. That's why you don't put somebody higher than they belong at the currrent point in time.

[StillAnEagle]

So Jefferson beats Wayzata but they are now 5 spots behind them. They have 1 bad loss to LV North, that is it. With Eagan running things the way they are you can't possibly take that as a bad loss. Your rankings are very detailed and pretty good but putting Jefferson at #12 is hideous. East and Wayzata are also too high, 1 good game out of 6 shouldn't move you up in the standings.

It happens all the time to teams that need to prove themselves. When EP lost to Edina, they dropped from #2 to #9. Beating Burnsville and LV south and then loosing to Tonka 1-0 gained them back some credibility. Jefferson will be back when they start playing consistant - Everyone knows they're a good team and wouldn't want to cross them in a dark al... um... arena.

[kcusseinop]

Karl... I also agree with the "needs" portion, and you have listened to my voice about my WBL Bears.

Now, because of the win versus Cretin, I think they should be right behind Eagan (sorry HHF - just teasing), and I totally agree with where you have them, as the win versus CDH "helps", because the other two wins this week versus East Ridge and Park were not good.

WBL still has to prove a little bit more to me than beating a one-trick line team in CDH. WBL still has Woodbury twice, Stillwater and Cretin again, AND, Forest Lake has proven to have upset ability, and Mounds View will be out to prove the earlier W vs WBL was not a fluke.

Now, you have Hill-Murray #2 and their need is stronger goaltending. The irony of it is that Coach Lex may have made one of the few mistakes in recent memory. He let senior Basil Sampair walk away.

When Sampair transferred to WBL Nov 10th (and ultimately ruled ineligible), he WAS the best goaltender for WBL, and after seeing him on the ice for about 6 captain's practices, he showed me enough to make me wonder "how in the world did Lex think Tim Shaughnessy was better than Sampair?" I have later heard that Sampair had attitude problems, because of lack of playing time, and I can see why.

I think if Lex kept Sampair and given him a shot, there would be a different story for two reasons. #1 Sampair may have taken the job or #2 Sampair would have provided a significant "threat" to Shaughnessy and made him improve via the practice route, or in-game focus.

H-M is still the landslide favorite to go to state, but advancing to the semi-final will be strictly based on opponent, because of goaltending.

Come on Goldy, you know better than most that stopping pucks in captains practice is a far cry from shutting down a team like WBL with an ocean of orange chanting God knows what at you for 51 minutes. Give me a break!
Sampair "might" stop the puck but look at his history with teams other than HM. Before his arrival in WBL he was kicked off AAA Madison. I wasn't there but you might want to check out what went wrong for him with that team.
As for Shaughnessy - He is 10-1-1 with 4 shutouts (HM 3 - WBL 0 on 12-15-09). GAA = 1.61 SV% = .919.
There are quite a few goalies in the state that would love to have stats like that.
This past week you said yourself he needed to come up big at St. Thomas (HM 4 - STA 2) and against Tartan (HM 3 - Tar 0). Give the kid a little credit.