Section 4AA 2009-2010 Outlook & Projections

Bensonmum · Post by **Bensonmum** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:52 am

Tchaaa rrright! I'm pretty sure I've heard the "what's wrong with Stillwater?" comments the last three Novembers. I hope you're not betting any money on Stillwater not playing as a team. They'll be a well-oiled machine by Christmas and the road to state goes through St. Croix Valley Recreation Center.

Hansonbrother · Post by **Hansonbrother** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:05 am

Bensonmum wrote:Tchaaa rrright! I'm pretty sure I've heard the "what's wrong with Stillwater?" comments the last three Novembers. I hope you're not betting any money on Stillwater not playing as a team. They'll be a well-oiled machine by Christmas and the road to state goes through St. Croix Valley Recreation Center.

Correction, the road to state goes through Aldrich!!

Bensonmum · Post by **Bensonmum** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 11:21 am

Aldrich is just steel and cement and a home for ghosts.
If you were at the State Championship banner raising last Wednesday, you'd agree with me.

OntheEdge · Post by **OntheEdge** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:30 pm

dochockey wrote:I was at Edina's game last night and thought Hills first line looked pretty good, but huge dropoff when you get to the second and third line. their goalie looked much sharper last year and it seems like the smaller glove is affecting her. I'm getting the feeling that Edina may be tough to beat come tournament time, they play 4 lines and there isn't much drop off between the top 3. I thought defense would be Hills strength this season but they seemed a little confused at times last night. Who knows maybe the flu has hit them or something. It's a long season and anything can happen.

In general I agree with your assessment and Hill has a scary 1st line, however, Edina only plays 3 lines. They have 11 forwards so the third line will on occasion play different combinations of skaters. This was the first game that Buie and Gleason were back full time so there is still some tinkering going on with the lines. By the way, Buie and Gleason played great with 4 goals and an assist collectively. I agree that it is a long season and I think Edina's best hockey is still ahead of them.

hockeyheaven · Post by **hockeyheaven** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 1:28 pm

I realize that the season has just got underway and a lot of hockey is yet to be played…but for my money Roseville and Edina are in a class by themselves with everyone else looking up.

joehockey · Post by **joehockey** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 2:23 pm

hockeyheaven wrote:I realize that the season has just got underway and a lot of hockey is yet to be played…but for my money Roseville and Edina are in a class by themselves with everyone else looking up.

We will find out soon I think they play next week or in the next two weeks.

OntheEdge · Post by **OntheEdge** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:16 pm

joehockey wrote:
hockeyheaven wrote:I realize that the season has just got underway and a lot of hockey is yet to be played…but for my money Roseville and Edina are in a class by themselves with everyone else looking up.
We will find out soon I think they play next week or in the next two weeks.

I don't understand your comment Joe. What will we find out? Hockeyheaven is saying that Edina and Roseville are in a class of their own so facing off really doesn't tell us anything about that comment.

I think that after Edina plays Warroad, Roseau, Stillwater, Hopkins (2X), Minnetonka (2X) we will find out if Hockeyheaven is right about Edina being in a class of their own.

In regards to the Edina/Roseville game next Tuesday, I will be interested to see what happens. Last year Roseville crushed Edina in the only regular season meeting but I think this year's Edina team is better than last year's. They scrimmaged during tryouts (the results of which do not tell us much) but the talent level and depth looked similar on both teams. I'm not smart enough to predict the outcome but I think it might just come down to which goalie plays better.

joehockey · Post by **joehockey** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:42 pm

OntheEdge wrote:
joehockey wrote:
hockeyheaven wrote:I realize that the season has just got underway and a lot of hockey is yet to be played…but for my money Roseville and Edina are in a class by themselves with everyone else looking up.
We will find out soon I think they play next week or in the next two weeks.
I don't understand your comment Joe. What will we find out? Hockeyheaven is saying that Edina and Roseville are in a class of their own so facing off really doesn't tell us anything about that comment.

I think that after Edina plays Warroad, Roseau, Stillwater, Hopkins (2X), Minnetonka (2X) we will find out if Hockeyheaven is right about Edina being in a class of their own.

In regards to the Edina/Roseville game next Tuesday, I will be interested to see what happens. Last year Roseville crushed Edina in the only regular season meeting but I think this year's Edina team is better than last year's. They scrimmaged during tryouts (the results of which do not tell us much) but the talent level and depth looked similar on both teams. I'm not smart enough to predict the outcome but I think it might just come down to which goalie plays better.

Edina is great - I just meant between the two we will see next week. Edina has a real chance to win it all based on what I saw last night and the schedule for the year - great program.

Melvin44 · Post by **Melvin44** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:09 pm

It's way to early to say 2 teams are far ahead of the pack. My opinion is any top team can win on any given day. Yes, things must go right. I've seen WBL look great in 2 games and not so great in 2 others. It's early and I feel we'll see strange things happen during the season.

I do feel teams like Roseville, Edina, HM, Stillwater, Hopkins etc will play well in most games as their playing style allows it. Great coaching, solid goaltending, players that play unselfish and as a team.

joehockey · Post by **joehockey** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:42 pm

I know we are a ways off from Sections and there are some key games to determine seeds but here is a current snapshot:

Section 4AA Standings
QRF Rank Team (QRF) Section Overall For Agst Streak
W L T W L T AVG AVG
No. 2 Roseville (91.2) 2 1 0 15 2 1 4.7 1.4 Won 4
No. 5 Stillwater Area (84.0) 3 2 0 12 4 2 3.8 1.9 Won 1
No. 14 White Bear Lake (71.

2 2 0 12 4 2 3.6 1.7 None
No. 8 Hill-Murray (80.3) 3 1 0 12 5 0 3.8 1.9 Won 3
No. 21 North St. Paul (63.2) 1 2 0 8 9 1 3.2 2.7 Won 4
No. 57 Minneapolis (37.3) 0 1 0 7 9 2 3.3 3.2 Lost 1
No. 42 Cretin-Derham Hall (51.2) 1 3 0 6 9 3 3.2 3.2 None
No. 53 Tartan (41.4) 1 2 0 7 10 1 2.2 2.4 Won 2
No. 62 St. Paul Blades (29.3) 2 1 0 5 12 0 2.5 5.8 Lost 2

Minnesota Fan · Post by **Minnesota Fan** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:23 am

My money is still on Stillwater.

OntheEdge · Post by **OntheEdge** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:52 pm

Minnesota Fan wrote:My money is still on Stillwater.

Maybe they can turn it around but the fact is, they are not a very good hockey team right now. I have a feeling that Stillwater will get beat in the semi-finals. My money is on Roseville and I like WBL as a dark horse.

Melvin44 · Post by **Melvin44** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:07 pm

Thanks for the WBL support. We're a little messed up right now. Not sure if they know they're in 1st place. Playing everybody and not playing to win until the 3rd period. Also still have the penalty issues. My daughter confronted 2 of the players last night and they didn't understand why they were being benched?

let's see a check when we were already a player down...

I still have faith and hopefully they'll figure it out. Should have beat last 3 opponents. Easily in my opinion.

Go Bears!

OntheEdge · Post by **OntheEdge** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:34 pm

Melvin44 wrote:Thanks for the WBL support. We're a little messed up right now. Not sure if they know they're in 1st place. Playing everybody and not playing to win until the 3rd period. Also still have the penalty issues. My daughter confronted 2 of the players last night and they didn't understand why they were being benched? let's see a check when we were already a player down...

I still have faith and hopefully they'll figure it out. Should have beat last 3 opponents. Easily in my opinion.

Go Bears!

It sounds like there's a little controversy at WBL but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Getting things straightened out now can pay dividends at playoff time provided that the players in question respond appropriately (i.e. realize that they are hurting their team, apologize, clean up their act and move forward). This might propel WBL to the next level.

Melvin44 · Post by **Melvin44** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:53 pm

They're all such great players and great kids. You wouldn't expect it. Hockey is a passionate sport and sometimes drives a person a little crazy. I've coached all of them at the youth level and they can overcome this. I care very much and believe in them. I wish I could help.

I do feel these girls will get it and in time to finish strong.

If I were coach I'd tell them what you do in the next couple of months could affect you for the rest of your life. How do you want to be remembered? Think about what you want and go get it!

I've always told my daughter. If you truly believe you can achieve anything.

Go Bears!

hockeyfan21 · Post by **hockeyfan21** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:05 pm

No offense intended Melvin and I don't know who your daughter is, but I've seen WBL three times this year.

One of the most talented teams top to bottom in the state.

THE most undisciplined, cheap, temper tantrum throwing, going to seriously injure somebody soon if they don't stop, team in the state. Not even close.

Been like that for the last few years and it seems to be getting worse.

Obviously it's not all of the kids and every team has a few goof balls, but you guys have more than your share.

My vote is on Roseville if they can get their goaltender to finally step up in a game that matters, otherwise Stillwater.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:43 pm

Melvin44 wrote:If I were coach I'd tell them what you do in the next couple of months could affect you for the rest of your life. How do you want to be remembered? Think about what you want and go get it!

Melvin, your advice turned out to be very ironic. The problem is that it should have come from the players to the assistant coach:

http://www.twincities.com/alllistings/c ... ck_check=1

Melvin44 · Post by **Melvin44** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:11 am

hockeyfan21 wrote:No offense intended Melvin and I don't know who your daughter is, but I've seen WBL three times this year.

One of the most talented teams top to bottom in the state.

THE most undisciplined, cheap, temper tantrum throwing, going to seriously injure somebody soon if they don't stop, team in the state. Not even close.

Been like that for the last few years and it seems to be getting worse.

Obviously it's not all of the kids and every team has a few goof balls, but you guys have more than your share.

My vote is on Roseville if they can get their goaltender to finally step up in a game that matters, otherwise Stillwater.

I totally dissagree. You're right every team has these players and to say because a few bad apple's your going to pick others?

I think WBL has many HUGE hearted/talented girls and to me that can even out over the few bad. You don't think Roseville or Stillwater has girls who might play a rough style? maybe they have more middle of the road girls?

I strongly believe WBL has a great group of girls who are trying to make it work and they will figure it out. If they do they would deserve to go all the way just as much as anyone else.

hockeyfan21 · Post by **hockeyfan21** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:26 am

Never seen a Roseville or Stillwater girl arguing and yelling at the other teams coaches on the ice. Never seen a Roseville or Stillwater girl get kicked off the ice for their behavior in the penalty box. Never seen a Roseville or Stillwater girl taunt the the opposing teams parents during a game (not positive but I may have even seen one flip the bird to the stands as she was escorted out of the arena). Seen all of it over the last two years watching WBL. Not to mention the late hits and cross checks to the back on vulnerable players; Usually by the same three or four girls from WBL game in and game out.

Stillwater and Roseville play tough and take the body in situations, and sometimes that turns into a check or a chance for someone to get hurt, but it is not a consistent pattern of undisciplined play.

Again, I am sure there are many good kids on WBL, in fact the vast majority probably are, but they are being overshadowed by the ones who the coach obviously has no control over and someone on another team is going to get hurt because of it.

Bensonmum · Post by **Bensonmum** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:04 pm

Yes Melvin, I've stayed out of this subject mostly, I didn't want to pile on. But please never compare what's going on at WB with Roseville or Stillwater. R & S have real coaches with real control over their teams--there's NO WAY it takes either one of them until the 18th game of the season to BEGIN dealing with the problem. It would have been dealt with 2 months ago, or 2 years ago more likely. It WOULD NOT HAPPEN at those programs. Period.

Melvin44 · Post by **Melvin44** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:01 pm

Bensonmum wrote:Yes Melvin, I've stayed out of this subject mostly, I didn't want to pile on. But please never compare what's going on at WB with Roseville or Stillwater. R & S have real coaches with real control over their teams--there's NO WAY it takes either one of them until the 18th game of the season to BEGIN dealing with the problem. It would have been dealt with 2 months ago, or 2 years ago more likely. It WOULD NOT HAPPEN at those programs. Period.

You're talking about a second year parent coach trying to do the right thing and learning. Again let me state he's tying to give these girls an opportunity to fix it themselves. I think more to blame is the parents. I would have pulled my daughter out of a game long ago with this conduct.

This coach is a great guy. The players are also awesome kids. A couple just need to realize what they're doing is wrong.

Stillwater and Roseville have won for years. A winning tradition helps! This coach took over a program that lost every year and never had discipline. It makes a difference! He's doing what he feels is best for the team. Some wrong decisions? maybe/yes but he's figuring it out and if the team can. They will deserve to win!.

I have witnessed actions from other teams including RV and Still.

I think the fans from RV and Stillwater are a little afraid of what might happen if WBL figures it out.

Why didn't you mention Hill, CDH Tartan, etc. Don't they deserve it?

OntheEdge · Post by **OntheEdge** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:03 pm

Melvin44 wrote:
hockeyfan21 wrote:No offense intended Melvin and I don't know who your daughter is, but I've seen WBL three times this year.

One of the most talented teams top to bottom in the state.

THE most undisciplined, cheap, temper tantrum throwing, going to seriously injure somebody soon if they don't stop, team in the state. Not even close.

Been like that for the last few years and it seems to be getting worse.

Obviously it's not all of the kids and every team has a few goof balls, but you guys have more than your share.

My vote is on Roseville if they can get their goaltender to finally step up in a game that matters, otherwise Stillwater.

I totally dissagree. You're right every team has these players and to say because a few bad apple's your going to pick others?

I think WBL has many HUGE hearted/talented girls and to me that can even out over the few bad. You don't think Roseville or Stillwater has girls who might play a rough style? maybe they have more middle of the road girls?

I strongly believe WBL has a great group of girls who are trying to make it work and they will figure it out. If they do they would deserve to go all the way just as much as anyone else.

I haven't seen the WBL team play and I'm not opposed to physical (yet clean) play but I have talked to other coaches and people that I respect that have seen WBL. They seem to agree that WBL plays a different style of girls hockey than most other teams. I've been told that WBL tries to intimidate teams physically and verbally. I'm not criticizing but I'm interested to know if this is the coach's strategy or is this just the way a few girls play. If this is the WBL strategy, I am interested to see how it works since this is more the type of tactic you see on the boys side and I can't recall a team using such tactics on the girls side. If succcessful could this be the beginning of a trend in girls hockey?

Melvin44 · Post by **Melvin44** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:20 pm

2 players!

They don't do it every game. They just seem to snap at times. If you took away the penalties of these 2 girls you'd see WBL would be one the least penalized teams.

Bensonmum · Post by **Bensonmum** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:55 pm

I know the coach was put in a tough situation from the beginning. I also know he's a good guy and a good hockey guy, but there were many raised eyebrows from the start when the program hired a dad coach/former youth coach who was maybe too close to the girls and parents--probably for this very reason. If he were coaching a different team without the personal history it would be a different story.

It's clear when watching the Bears that there are some excellent players who are good leaders on and off the ice. But is it right to make 17-year-old kids police the behavior of their teammates and friends, especially to the point where it's gotten this out of hand?

I took it from your comment that losing control of some players (even if only a couple) like this could happen anywhere, even Roseville or SW. I'm saying no, IMO in their current situations, that could not happen at those two programs. HM either. Tartan or CDH I have no idea.

jumpstart · Post by **jumpstart** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:09 pm

Melvin44 wrote:2 players!

They don't do it every game. They just seem to snap at times. If you took away the penalties of these 2 girls you'd see WBL would be one the least penalized teams.

I have to gree with Melvin on this. WBL does NOT have a "strategy" of intimidating other teams. The coach does NOT send his girls on the ice with that intent. They play aggressively, have good size, and are very fast. This sometimes results in penalties.

We have two girls on the team that have been in the box an exhorbitant amount of time. These two I'm sure have logged over 50 penalty minutes each, including a number of 10-minute misconducts. Unfortunately, they continue to behave in this fashion. Melvin is right -- the problem starts at home, and I don't believe the coach is getting much support from the parents. I'm sure if you asked the other parents on the team, the majority of them would just as soon see these two girls off the team. One was kicked out of last night's game, and I'm pretty sure no one missed her.

Looking at it from the coach's perspective, I believe he is trying to be fair and still do what is right. He doesn't want to kick anyone off the team, especially in their senior year. In 20-20 hindsight, he will probably come to realize that he allowed the problem to continue far too long.

In my humble opinion, these two girls hurt the team more than they help. They have had more than enough chances to clean up their act -- it is time for them to go. It is disheartening to go into an arena and have parents from the other team yell at our players as they are leaving the ice that they are a "dirty" team. This is unfair to the other players on WBL who love the game of hockey and play the game as it should be played. Some of these girls are looking to play hockey at the college level, and it is truly a disservice to them to be labeled as "dirty" players.

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Section 4AA 2009-2010 Outlook & Projections

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