SEC Goalies

GoolieMan · Post by **GoolieMan** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:36 am

Just wondering who everybody thought the top goalies in the Suburban East Conference are?
I'm going to go with Ness out of Woodbury, or Schletty out of WBL.
Your Thoughts?

Goldfishdude · Post by **Goldfishdude** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:58 pm

Here are the better goalies in the SEC overall stats. It's too hard for me to calculate SEC stats, because there are some goalies who have not played full games, and I don't get paid to start calculating minutes.

I cannot give the most accurate stats on SEC PLAY, as last night's games have not been tabulated in full.

Also, it is clear that Hockeyhub has erred in stats, as in the game WBL vs Park, there was a goalie change, and Schletty was charged with a GA, and negative shots. (* = incorrect stats). I also know that Schletty is being charged with a GA vs East that was an EN goal. In contrast, Jordan's statistics from WBL will reflect slightly inflated stats, because he was credited with all the shots vs Park and he only played 2+ periods.

And it also appears FLake has split an SEC game.

These are OVERALL Stats.

Joe Schneider - CDH : 10-3, 2.57 GAA .888 Save %
Michael Ness - Wood: 8-5-1 2.77 GAA .892 Save %
Dylan Culver - MV : 5-6-2 2.90 .GAA .892 Save %
Christian Gaffy - FL : 4-1-2 2.51 GAA .909 Save %
Paige Skoog - FL : 4-2 2.68 GAA .910 Save %
Rick Cotter - Stw : 6-2-1 2.80 GAA .856 Save %
* Jared Schletty - WBL - 6-3-1 3.33 GAA .869 Save %

Ness is a lock for All-Conference.

Schletty will be hurt, because he got pulled after one period versus Woodbury. According to the game thread, WBL was outplaying Woodbury early in the game, until a couple of quick Woodbury goals deflated the team in its first game using JV players. Schletty did respond with his best game of the year versus Roseville in which he won them the game, and also played well last night versus Hastings. How much merit the coaches lend towards Schletty's play while shorthanded will be a factor. Prior to the Woodbury thread, I stated he was a solid candidate for all-conference.

Schneider, by eye-sight, statistically has been a tad bit better in SEC than Schletty. Whether WBL was shorthanded or not, one still has to consider how many shots against. There's no way of knowing "scoring chances" versus SOG. What I mean by that is if Schneider faces 28 shots vs Roseville and Schletty also faces 28 shots, does it matter who was on CDH or WBL ice? 28 shots is 28 shots....

Both FLake goalies have been solid, also in SEC, with Gaffy having a spectacular 37-save performance in a 1-1 tie versus Woodbury.

But as Body Shots commented on a thread WBL vs Woodbury, being nominated all-conference is somewhat misleading. 5 goalies were named all-conference and only 3 defensemen a year ago. From what I have been told, and I do not know this for a fact, depending upon where a team finishes in SEC play, determines how many players a COACH can select or nominate for all-conference.

My opinion is that we could probably interchange all these goalies on different teams and the results would be the same. I think there is a lot of talent in nets at the SEC LEVEL, but it also gets reflected on how these goalies play outside the SEC.... They all struggle - Ness included against good teams.

Even though statistically his numbers aren't that great, I give Andrew McDonough from East Ridge all kinds of credit, as he, too, is just a sophomore and look what he has in front of him!!! He averages 31 SOG with a 4.35 GAA and an .860 save %. That's pretty respectable considering no seniors and a first year program.

But then again, this forum and our opinions rank right up there with the paid experts from ESPN, CBSSPORTSLINE, Foxsports, the US Hockey Hall of Fame, and gophersportsblog.com....

If anyone takes my/our opinions to heart and either get A) offended or B) arrogant needs to be reminded that, although I WAS a paid sports writer at one time, I no longer am...

Goldfishdude · Post by **Goldfishdude** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:10 pm

Just another quick stat.

Although he had a miserable game in the FLake SEC game, McDonough had a spectacular game in the FLake tourney...

In a handful of games versus tougher opponents, Woodbury (2), CDH, FLake (tourney) and WBL, he faced 192 shots with a save % of .880. Factoring in the benchmark for a very good goalie season is .900, he has been pretty respectable.

Just_Another_Fan · Post by **Just_Another_Fan** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:20 pm

Goldfishdude wrote:Just another quick stat.

Although he had a miserable game in the FLake SEC game, McDonough had a spectacular game in the FLake tourney...

In a handful of games versus tougher opponents, Woodbury (2), CDH, FLake (tourney) and WBL, he faced 192 shots with a save % of .880. Factoring in the benchmark for a very good goalie season is .900, he has been pretty respectable.

McDonough is only a sophomore so consistency will come. He is a solid goaltender and it'll be interesting to see what happens in the next few years with him.

Goldfishdude · Post by **Goldfishdude** » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:51 pm

Just_Another_Fan wrote:
Goldfishdude wrote:Just another quick stat.

Although he had a miserable game in the FLake SEC game, McDonough had a spectacular game in the FLake tourney...

In a handful of games versus tougher opponents, Woodbury (2), CDH, FLake (tourney) and WBL, he faced 192 shots with a save % of .880. Factoring in the benchmark for a very good goalie season is .900, he has been pretty respectable.
McDonough is only a sophomore so consistency will come. He is a solid goaltender and it'll be interesting to see what happens in the next few years with him.

As to why I stated ALSO a sophomore, because Schletty from WBL is a sophomore, but, for the most part, look at the talent around both those goalies. Even though WBL is shorthanded, two players are still active in Wolter and Wahlin, and these two are Elite I players.

With that said, although just sophomores, that doesn't guarantee consistency long term. I know from first hand, I have seen goalies drop off in production by time he is a senior, and I think a prime example, today, is look at Brett Larsen from Centennial. He was being touted as a super soph last year, and now as a junior, his numbers are 3.52 and .860..... and is splitting time...

In comparison in WBL, when Owen Collette was a soph at WBL, his numbers were better as a soph than his senior year, although he still was very, very good senior year.

McDonough doesn't have the supporting cast in front of him, which makes me appreciate MORE what he does for that program versus what Ness does for Woodbury, etc.

Let me add this, too. Both Flake goalies are having nice seasons, although maybe not against the best competition, but they are replacing, who I felt, was THE best goalie in the conference last year - Paul Moberg.

Because none of us has seen every game and every save, we can only go off the stats, and that puts Schletty in the average of the SEC and McDonough in the bottom half. Does that mean Ness is that much superior than Schletty or McDonough in ability?? No.. Nor does that mean that Schletty or McDonugh is superior than Cotter or Gaffy.. etc.

Having charted goalie shots a couple years, I have seen goalies have 25 SOG with 18 scoring chances (= shots in basically a triangle from the face-off dot across to face-off dot to a straight-line to the posts) and give up 4 goals, and statistically it doesn't look good, but in reality, it was pretty good game.

In comparison, I have seen 16-save shutouts with 4 scoring chances, and it's deceptive, and I have seen 20+ save performances with 3 GA, but only 6 scoring chances, as the rest of the shots were from outside the circles, blue-line, or harmless shots in the circles.

When Schletty gave up 5 goals versus H-M, four were on breakaways/PP/odd-man rushes.

So, we can only speculate each goalie based on flat-out stat #s. We can't judge on odd-man rushes, PPG, etc, because the #s aren't there.

brandy38 · Post by **brandy38** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:19 pm

Goldfishdude wrote:
Just_Another_Fan wrote:
Goldfishdude wrote:Just another quick stat.

Although he had a miserable game in the FLake SEC game, McDonough had a spectacular game in the FLake tourney...

In a handful of games versus tougher opponents, Woodbury (2), CDH, FLake (tourney) and WBL, he faced 192 shots with a save % of .880. Factoring in the benchmark for a very good goalie season is .900, he has been pretty respectable.
McDonough is only a sophomore so consistency will come. He is a solid goaltender and it'll be interesting to see what happens in the next few years with him.
As to why I stated ALSO a sophomore, because Schletty from WBL is a sophomore, but, for the most part, look at the talent around both those goalies. Even though WBL is shorthanded, two players are still active in Wolter and Wahlin, and these two are Elite I players.

With that said, although just sophomores, that doesn't guarantee consistency long term. I know from first hand, I have seen goalies drop off in production by time he is a senior, and I think a prime example, today, is look at Brett Larsen from Centennial. He was being touted as a super soph last year, and now as a junior, his numbers are 3.52 and .860..... and is splitting time...

In comparison in WBL, when Owen Collette was a soph at WBL, his numbers were better as a soph than his senior year, although he still was very, very good senior year.

McDonough doesn't have the supporting cast in front of him, which makes me appreciate MORE what he does for that program versus what Ness does for Woodbury, etc.

Let me add this, too. Both Flake goalies are having nice seasons, although maybe not against the best competition, but they are replacing, who I felt, was THE best goalie in the conference last year - Paul Moberg.

Because none of us has seen every game and every save, we can only go off the stats, and that puts Schletty in the average of the SEC and McDonough in the bottom half. Does that mean Ness is that much superior than Schletty or McDonough in ability?? No.. Nor does that mean that Schletty or McDonugh is superior than Cotter or Gaffy.. etc.

Having charted goalie shots a couple years, I have seen goalies have 25 SOG with 18 scoring chances (= shots in basically a triangle from the face-off dot across to face-off dot to a straight-line to the posts) and give up 4 goals, and statistically it doesn't look good, but in reality, it was pretty good game.

In comparison, I have seen 16-save shutouts with 4 scoring chances, and it's deceptive, and I have seen 20+ save performances with 3 GA, but only 6 scoring chances, as the rest of the shots were from outside the circles, blue-line, or harmless shots in the circles.

When Schletty gave up 5 goals versus H-M, four were on breakaways/PP/odd-man rushes.

So, we can only speculate each goalie based on flat-out stat #s. We can't judge on odd-man rushes, PPG, etc, because the #s aren't there.

Speaking of Collette, anyone know if he's still playing after HS?

Goldfishdude · Post by **Goldfishdude** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 1:53 pm

The last I talked to him, he was just going to college for academics. There were no plans for junior hockey or college hockey. 100% of mine and my son's dealings with Owen were nothing but positive. He was always a great young man to be around.

BearsSensGophs · Post by **BearsSensGophs** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 2:32 pm

Weiss (Owens backup) is playing juniors tier III but non the less. If you had to ask me I'd take Weiss over Collette any game last year.

gophs16 · Post by **gophs16** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:17 pm

Cotters performance agaisnt Cretin may have raised a few heads. I've been to games where both goalies have played and they have a pretty good one-two punch. Culver for the Stangs has the ability to stand on his head. Ness has pretty awesome D and doesn't get many quality shots on him, hes good, but best in the SEC? I don't think so

Sykes · Post by **Sykes** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:34 pm

Hockey hub stats are not doing goalies any favors as Goldfishdude mentioned there are a lot of games that have not been split properly or assigned to the wrong goalie totally. Pointstreak was much more realiable last year.

Goldfishdude, you mentioned a lot of errors for Schletty. Ness' correct stats are 2.4 GAA and .904 sv% when the errors are corrected. In the SEC they are 1.22 and .946 respectively.

Goldfishdude · Post by **Goldfishdude** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:07 pm

gophs16 wrote:Cotters performance agaisnt Cretin may have raised a few heads. I've been to games where both goalies have played and they have a pretty good one-two punch. Culver for the Stangs has the ability to stand on his head. Ness has pretty awesome D and doesn't get many quality shots on him, hes good, but best in the SEC? I don't think so

I qualified my statement above as stating that it is impossible to guage quality of shots, etc. The average amount of SOG may vary between 3-5 per game.

Because Hockeyhub has inaccuarte stats, we can not be 100% sure, but statistically, when Ness is giving up essentially one goal a game in SEC play, he is the best in SEC. According to Hockeyhub, he has given up just 9 conference goals in 8+ games..

And Sykes, I may have to correct you a bit. Technically, you calculate a goalie's stats based on minutes played.. Ness played 7 games of 51 minutes, one w/14 and an OT game with 59 min.. That's 430 minutes and you divide that by a 51-minute game and he has played 8.43 games. With the 9 goals he has given up, his SEC GAA should be a boring 1.07.

Sykes · Post by **Sykes** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:58 pm

Goldfishdude wrote:
gophs16 wrote:Cotters performance agaisnt Cretin may have raised a few heads. I've been to games where both goalies have played and they have a pretty good one-two punch. Culver for the Stangs has the ability to stand on his head. Ness has pretty awesome D and doesn't get many quality shots on him, hes good, but best in the SEC? I don't think so
I qualified my statement above as stating that it is impossible to guage quality of shots, etc. The average amount of SOG may vary between 3-5 per game.

Because Hockeyhub has inaccuarte stats, we can not be 100% sure, but statistically, when Ness is giving up essentially one goal a game in SEC play, he is the best in SEC. According to Hockeyhub, he has given up just 9 conference goals in 8+ games..

And Sykes, I may have to correct you a bit. Technically, you calculate a goalie's stats based on minutes played.. Ness played 7 games of 51 minutes, one w/14 and an OT game with 59 min.. That's 430 minutes and you divide that by a 51-minute game and he has played 8.43 games. With the 9 goals he has given up, his SEC GAA should be a boring 1.07.

Agree on the calcs Goldfishdude. I don't have the exact minues just used periods and no overtime.

Also want to point out there are a lot of very hard working goalies in this conference and state, many of which never get mentioned but without them, hockey would not be the sport it is. Let's keep this thread going and point some of them out when they've had a shutout or won the game for their team. They deserve some recognition!!!!!

I'll point out Gaffy for Forest Lake who was mentioned earlier. Game against Woodbury 37 saves. Make the game for them.

Goldfishdude · Post by **Goldfishdude** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:03 pm

Yikes..

Park got to Ness with 5 goals tonight. 3 were on PP, though.

Forest Lake 2-1 over WBL, so both goalies must have played well. I am assuming Schletty was in nets.

slapstkhound · Post by **slapstkhound** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:12 pm

Goldfishdude wrote:Yikes..

Park got to Ness with 5 goals tonight. 3 were on PP, though.

Forest Lake 2-1 over WBL, so both goalies must have played well. I am assuming Schletty was in nets.

Actually only 2 on Ness. He didn't play the 3rd and Park scored 3 on Moore.

Goldfishdude · Post by **Goldfishdude** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:17 pm

slapstkhound wrote:
Goldfishdude wrote:Yikes..

Park got to Ness with 5 goals tonight. 3 were on PP, though.

Forest Lake 2-1 over WBL, so both goalies must have played well. I am assuming Schletty was in nets.
Actually only 2 on Ness. He didn't play the 3rd and Park scored 3 on Moore.

Thanks!!! Damn Hockeyhub!!!

prospector · Post by **prospector** » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:58 pm

stats are a good guideline (however) remember to take into consideration the Team Defense. as good as a Net-minder may they be, those BACK-Door-tap-ins are a killer. Some of the goalies mentioned in this post have had wins yanked right out from under them, from no fault or lack of talent on their end. When it comes down to it, with a really good D in front of them Who do you want between the pipes.

Ufeelshame · Post by **Ufeelshame** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:55 am

I agree. But unfortunatley stats are all we have. We all know goalies who had great high school stats get no looks by scouts. I think primarily because the goalies were playing on strong teams behind strong defensive units. I think the scouts figure that out. It is hard to tell. As we all know shot counts don't mean much if they all come from outside. As a goalie parent, the back door tap in always amazes me. Probably the easiest offensive play in hockey. Yet well coached teams always do it. Likewise poorly coached teams never do it and always give it up.

prospector · Post by **prospector** » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:31 pm

i do agree with that, I watched a game last week where a team let up 2 back door goals and a 3 on 0 needles to say the better goalie lost but the better skating team exploited the defense of the other team. in that game if you were to swap goalies ( the win would have still went to the better skating team) but buy a much larger margin. but the stats would show it differently..

wbmd · Post by **wbmd** » Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:23 pm

Sykes · Post by **Sykes** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:10 am

Goldfishdude wrote:
slapstkhound wrote:
Goldfishdude wrote:Yikes..

Park got to Ness with 5 goals tonight. 3 were on PP, though.

Forest Lake 2-1 over WBL, so both goalies must have played well. I am assuming Schletty was in nets.
Actually only 2 on Ness. He didn't play the 3rd and Park scored 3 on Moore.
Thanks!!! Damn Hockeyhub!!!

Goldfishdude

In the SEC Goaltending thread yesterday, you again stated Ness gave up five goals against Park. Hockey Hub was wrong, only two.

With that said, Ness had a very poor game against Stillwater giving up 3 on 10. In the Forest Lake contest, he and Gaffy each had great games. Gaffy saved 23 of 24 for .958 and Ness 28 of 30 for .933. Woodbury was short handed 14 minutes of the first 28 minutes of the game and gave up one even strength goal during that period. Gaffy stopped a wide open breakaway. Ness put a glove on a back door that Forest Lake was starting to celebrate because they could not believe that Ness could have made the save.

I agree with some of the other posts, stats say one thing but seeing the goalies play is another.

Goldfishdude · Post by **Goldfishdude** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:34 am

Sykes wrote:
Goldfishdude wrote:
slapstkhound wrote:Actually only 2 on Ness. He didn't play the 3rd and Park scored 3 on Moore.
Thanks!!! Damn Hockeyhub!!!
Goldfishdude

In the SEC Goaltending thread yesterday, you again stated Ness gave up five goals against Park. Hockey Hub was wrong, only two.

With that said, Ness had a very poor game against Stillwater giving up 3 on 10. In the Forest Lake contest, he and Gaffy each had great games. Gaffy saved 23 of 24 for .958 and Ness 28 of 30 for .933. Woodbury was short handed 14 minutes of the first 28 minutes of the game and gave up one even strength goal during that period. Gaffy stopped a wide open breakaway. Ness put a glove on a back door that Forest Lake was starting to celebrate because they could not believe that Ness could have made the save.

I agree with some of the other posts, stats say one thing but seeing the goalies play is another.

This time I took the info from Followthepuck.com!!

I think I remember on the game thread vs Park someone mentioned that Ness started, and was taken out going into the third, and then other goalie gave up the three!! That ssound right??

Anyway, when I am bouncing around from team page to team page, it's easier to use FTP.com, because they also list the goalie saves.

So, then, I was still correct in crowning Ness???

Just_Another_Fan · Post by **Just_Another_Fan** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:39 am

Ness seems to be a very hot and cold goalie. One game absolutely nothing can get past him but then others the weakest goals get past him. He is a great goalie don't get me wrong but he is just inconsistent occasionally. Hopefully he can get hot just before sections because when he is on his game the kid is incredible.

wbmd · Post by **wbmd** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 12:37 pm

Just_Another_Fan wrote:Ness seems to be a very hot and cold goalie. One game absolutely nothing can get past him but then others the weakest goals get past him. He is a great goalie don't get me wrong but he is just inconsistent occasionally. Hopefully he can get hot just before sections because when he is on his game the kid is incredible.

Much like Zach Faust used to be at White Bear.

Sykes · Post by **Sykes** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:28 pm

Goldfishdude wrote:
Sykes wrote:
Goldfishdude wrote: Thanks!!! Damn Hockeyhub!!!
Goldfishdude

In the SEC Goaltending thread yesterday, you again stated Ness gave up five goals against Park. Hockey Hub was wrong, only two.

With that said, Ness had a very poor game against Stillwater giving up 3 on 10. In the Forest Lake contest, he and Gaffy each had great games. Gaffy saved 23 of 24 for .958 and Ness 28 of 30 for .933. Woodbury was short handed 14 minutes of the first 28 minutes of the game and gave up one even strength goal during that period. Gaffy stopped a wide open breakaway. Ness put a glove on a back door that Forest Lake was starting to celebrate because they could not believe that Ness could have made the save.

I agree with some of the other posts, stats say one thing but seeing the goalies play is another.
This time I took the info from Followthepuck.com!! I think I remember on the game thread vs Park someone mentioned that Ness started, and was taken out going into the third, and then other goalie gave up the three!! That ssound right??

Anyway, when I am bouncing around from team page to team page, it's easier to use FTP.com, because they also list the goalie saves.

So, then, I was still correct in crowning Ness???

Right now, I wouldn't want to crown anyone. The SEC is up for grabs for a number of teams. Last year, the conference was not decided until the last game in OT. This year, it will be even tighter with 4-5 teams in play. The next two weeks will decide everything. Right now, Gaffy looks good but my vote does not count in the final tally anyway.

Appleman · Post by **Appleman** » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:29 pm

Yeah but Zach Faust had steller defense in front of him every year. He always had 2-3 D1 defenmen on his team and the others were better than any WB defensmen in the past three years. I watched Faust for his two starting seasons and he rarely had to make big saves and only averaged around 15 shots a game, its easy to look good as a goalie with good defense in front of you.