Where to play?

[DHMN]

Why are people against the girls playing at the excel? Money? attendance? The attendance won't go up because you change the venue, actually I think it will be just the opposite as alot of people might want to come and see the excel. There is something out there called title IX also that you need to understand has alot to do with this.

It's because there are so many empty seats that takes away a lot of the atmosphere of a state tournament. With a smaller arena the attendance will create a packed house and much better atmosphere, like those of the CEC/South St. Paul tournament games in the early years..

[Gov78]

I'm usually not a member of the spell-check police but can we at least spell the name of the greatest hockey facility in North America correctly?

It's Xcel not Excel. Excel is a spreadsheet program from Microsoft.

[capitalist]

I think you hit it right there. It's the best facility in North America, probably the world, and if our girls have an opportunity to play in it on the very special occasion of the State Tournament at a decent price that doesn't break the MSHSL's bank, then you might want to let them. If the parents can't get jazzed up because the atmosphere in the stands isn't high-intensity, we should be able to make that small sacrifice. Seems to me the student sections and bands love being at the X.
Side note: my daughter played on a team with the daughter of a very highly ranking executive of the Wild. This executive tried for two years to get our team an hour of ice time at the X. He wasn't able to, which shows you how in-demand it is. Most kids in the state will never get to skate there.

[InigoMontoya]

Maybe they shouldn't get a chance to skate there? How many kids that grew up playing baseball in New York ever got a chance to play a game in Yankee Stadium? How many high school football players in Chicago/Illinois get to play a game at Soldier Field? Why should we decide that anyone is "entitled" to play at the X - boy or girl?

[hockeywild7]

Well first of all you need to read up on title IX as I am sure that was the impetus that got it there in the first place regarding a potential lawsuit. And I could care less about chicago or new york they can play where and whenever they like and want. If the facility is available and they have an option to play there let the players decide, it's there experience let them play there if they prefer it. I could pretty much guarantee the players would choose the Xcel center.

[capitalist]

I'm not saying anyone is 'entitled' to anything.
I'm saying since the X is one of the viable options, then why not? Is Yankee Stadium one of the viable options for the New York HS Baseball State Tournament? If so, then why not? If you went to college and your roommate told you he got to play baseball in Yankee Stadium in his state tournament, wouldn't you say, "Coooooool."

[rinkrat90]

My daughter played at Ridder as freshman and at X when she was senior; she preferred Ridder for all reasons previously mentioned. She also said to her not really important where the State was held. Also mentioned that the section games to get to tourney were more fun because they upset a couple teams getting to State.

[PoniesDad45]

I have never watched the Girls tourney, in fact I've probably watched one girl's game in my life and that was a U10 game I believe. My point is I know nothing of this subject so I have a couple of questions.

1) I have heard, with no proof that the girls do not come close to filling the X, even with the championship game. Is that true?

2) Does the girl's tournament make money at the X? Does it lose money?

I think these are the most important questions, I wasn't aware that we would open up a 200 million dollar facility just because it was a great experience for kids? It should be about making money. If it isn't, then move it to Ridder or Aldrich.

[OntheEdge]

I have never watched the Girls tourney, in fact I've probably watched one girl's game in my life and that was a U10 game I believe. My point is I know nothing of this subject so I have a couple of questions.

1) I have heard, with no proof that the girls do not come close to filling the X, even with the championship game. Is that true?

2) Does the girl's tournament make money at the X? Does it lose money?

I think these are the most important questions, I wasn't aware that we would open up a 200 million dollar facility just because it was a great experience for kids? It should be about making money. If it isn't, then move it to Ridder or Aldrich.

You don't watch girl's hockey and know nothing of the subject so why do you care about this topic?

Not that it matters to you but to answer your question the girls don't come close to filling the X but I understand they make a little money but not as much as if they rented a cheaper facility.

Also, opening up a 200 million facility is not just about giving kids a good experience, its about equal opportunity which is the essence of the Equal Opportunity in Education Act or more commonly called Title IX. The law states that "No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any educational program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance..." Without Title IX there probably wouldn't be the opportunity for girls to play in such sports as girls hockey. Like it or not girls get an equal opportunity to play equivalent sports in high school and college and have access to equal facilities based on Title IX. The courts have spoken and they have said money and profit aren't motive enough to discriminate.

As I understand it, a Title IX lawsuit was filed against MSHSL regarding this issue. Before the case was decided, MSHSL decided to give the girls the same access to the X as the boys. While my personal opinion is that Title IX decisions go too far at times, I think the law has been effective in giving girls opportunities in sports that they would not otherwise have without it. If you are old enough just think back to pre-1972 when girls had few, if any, opportunities to play competitive sports.

[hockeywild7]

Since when is high school hockey all about making money. I doubt the class A boys makes money either as it is usually only half full. Get over it people, the girls are not going anywhere, as stated before multiple times this is a dead issue.

[royals dad]

The problem isn't the venue it's the attendance. There are a number of issues at the root of this, part of it is the perception of girls/womens hockey and part of it is the conflicts created by Minnesota Hockey but most of all its the very people who are involved in the sport itself (MSHL, Players, Parents, Coaches).

People way to often compare the girls game to boys/mens hockey. It is not the right way to look at it. I often hear people say things like the best girls team couldn't beat our class A boys team or the womens Olympic team could beat a good HS team. If that is the only way you look at it then why would you ever watch anything other than the NHL? The fact that it is not the fastest, hardest hitting, best played game in the sport is true but its true for boys HS and College games as well. Any fan of hockey who saw the section Girls 6AA final at Parade saw an entertaining game. HS Girls hockey can be a great game for fans to watch and that perception needs to change.

Minnesota hockey once again schedule almost every girls youth hockey team in the state in district playoffs over the tourney weekend. This needs to stop. The youth hockey teams are down to just the state participants by the time boys hockey rolls around. We need girls youth hockey players and families at the X for the girls HS tourney, it’s a chance for them to see the best of the best. To learn by watching how they play and to have some high goals to aspire and chase.

Why do players and parents not show up at the X if their team gets knocked out (what does it say to your daughters if you make an effort to see the boys tourney and not the girls)? Why do teams continue to make a farce out of the class A tournament by not opting up to a competitive level (one team scoring 45 goals in 2 years is a horrible thing for the tourney). Why does MSHL not make competitive realignment of sections, we need more competitive 1st round games in both classes.

Sorry to preach but if you want to fix the tourney I think moving it is not the answer. Sure the atmosphere at Ridder was rocking but it was the same number of people in a smaller space. There are 13000 girls who play hockey in this state another 3000 adult women. The sport has grown time to start asking why the crowds haven’t. I think it is an entertaining game to watch so I don’t believe that people don’t enjoy watching.

[allhoc11]

The problem isn't the venue it's the attendance. There are a number of issues at the root of this, part of it is the perception of girls/womens hockey and part of it is the conflicts created by Minnesota Hockey but most of all its the very people who are involved in the sport itself (MSHL, Players, Parents, Coaches).

People way to often compare the girls game to boys/mens hockey. It is not the right way to look at it. I often hear people say things like the best girls team couldn't beat our class A boys team or the womens Olympic team could beat a good HS team. If that is the only way you look at it then why would you ever watch anything other than the NHL? The fact that it is not the fastest, hardest hitting, best played game in the sport is true but its true for boys HS and College games as well. Any fan of hockey who saw the section Girls 6AA final at Parade saw an entertaining game. HS Girls hockey can be a great game for fans to watch and that perception needs to change.

Minnesota hockey once again schedule almost every girls youth hockey team in the state in district playoffs over the tourney weekend. This needs to stop. The youth hockey teams are down to just the state participants by the time boys hockey rolls around. We need girls youth hockey players and families at the X for the girls HS tourney, it’s a chance for them to see the best of the best. To learn by watching how they play and to have some high goals to aspire and chase.

Why do players and parents not show up at the X if their team gets knocked out (what does it say to your daughters if you make an effort to see the boys tourney and not the girls)? Why do teams continue to make a farce out of the class A tournament by not opting up to a competitive level (one team scoring 45 goals in 2 years is a horrible thing for the tourney). Why does MSHL not make competitive realignment of sections, we need more competitive 1st round games in both classes.

Sorry to preach but if you want to fix the tourney I think moving it is not the answer. Sure the atmosphere at Ridder was rocking but it was the same number of people in a smaller space. There are 13000 girls who play hockey in this state another 3000 adult women. The sport has grown time to start asking why the crowds haven’t. I think it is an entertaining game to watch so I don’t believe that people don’t enjoy watching.

Thank you, I think you bring up some very good points, and well said!!! Now how do fans of the girls game start to make a difference?

[OntheEdge]

The problem isn't the venue it's the attendance. There are a number of issues at the root of this, part of it is the perception of girls/womens hockey and part of it is the conflicts created by Minnesota Hockey but most of all its the very people who are involved in the sport itself (MSHL, Players, Parents, Coaches).

People way to often compare the girls game to boys/mens hockey. It is not the right way to look at it. I often hear people say things like the best girls team couldn't beat our class A boys team or the womens Olympic team could beat a good HS team. If that is the only way you look at it then why would you ever watch anything other than the NHL? The fact that it is not the fastest, hardest hitting, best played game in the sport is true but its true for boys HS and College games as well. Any fan of hockey who saw the section Girls 6AA final at Parade saw an entertaining game. HS Girls hockey can be a great game for fans to watch and that perception needs to change.

Minnesota hockey once again schedule almost every girls youth hockey team in the state in district playoffs over the tourney weekend. This needs to stop. The youth hockey teams are down to just the state participants by the time boys hockey rolls around. We need girls youth hockey players and families at the X for the girls HS tourney, it’s a chance for them to see the best of the best. To learn by watching how they play and to have some high goals to aspire and chase.

Why do players and parents not show up at the X if their team gets knocked out (what does it say to your daughters if you make an effort to see the boys tourney and not the girls)? Why do teams continue to make a farce out of the class A tournament by not opting up to a competitive level (one team scoring 45 goals in 2 years is a horrible thing for the tourney). Why does MSHL not make competitive realignment of sections, we need more competitive 1st round games in both classes.

Sorry to preach but if you want to fix the tourney I think moving it is not the answer. Sure the atmosphere at Ridder was rocking but it was the same number of people in a smaller space. There are 13000 girls who play hockey in this state another 3000 adult women. The sport has grown time to start asking why the crowds haven’t. I think it is an entertaining game to watch so I don’t believe that people don’t enjoy watching.

Well said Royals Dad. I agree with everything you said. I personally was disappointed in the attendance at this year's Championship game at the X. I think Minnesota Hockey and the MSHSL can help foster better attendance by scheduling events around the girls State Tournament. It was disappointing that the Edina boys were playing a Sectional game on the same night that Edina's girls were playing for the State Championship. It was also disappointing that many of the hundreds of girls and boys that play hockey for the Edina Hockey Association had games on the same night as the State Championship Game. I believe this scheduling conflict resulted in hundreds of people not attending.

[Melvin44]

I know people will call me cheap. I say move it somewhere where you don't have to charge $15.00 to get in plus $20.00 to park and you'd get a heck of more fans attending.

[OntheEdge]

I know people will call me cheap. I say move it somewhere where you don't have to charge $15.00 to get in plus $20.00 to park and you'd get a heck of more fans attending.

Melvin, I call myself "frugal" not cheap and I walked the extra 2 blocks and only paid $10 for parking.

[ifallsin64]

Possibly my first and last post, but lets back up one step from state and talk section finals. Why not put two games back to back, as the boys have done in the cities for many years. The atmosphere would be great, the attendence would double, the girls would get to play in front of larger crowds and it may add a bit more hype to the tourney, not to mention the mshsl not paying for two venues. Like it or not, the girls will be at the x for at least the next few years. Everyone always says that the boys section finals are even better than the tourney, maybe that is the topic we should be talking about instead of the Ridder or X argument every year.

[OntheEdge]

Possibly my first and last post, but lets back up one step from state and talk section finals. Why not put two games back to back, as the boys have done in the cities for many years. The atmosphere would be great, the attendence would double, the girls would get to play in front of larger crowds and it may add a bit more hype to the tourney, not to mention the mshsl not paying for two venues. Like it or not, the girls will be at the x for at least the next few years. Everyone always says that the boys section finals are even better than the tourney, maybe that is the topic we should be talking about instead of the Ridder or X argument every year.

Great point! I'd love to see some of the Metro Section Finals grouped at Ridder.

[northshore guy]

Why are people against the girls playing at the excel? Money? attendance? The attendance won't go up because you change the venue, actually I think it will be just the opposite as alot of people might want to come and see the excel. There is something out there called title IX also that you need to understand has alot to do with this.

agreed

[northshore guy]

Since when is high school hockey all about making money. I doubt the class A boys makes money either as it is usually only half full. Get over it people, the girls are not going anywhere, as stated before multiple times this is a dead issue.

From last night:
Virginia/MtIron-Buhl (18-8-3) vs. Hermantown (26-3-0)
Date: Mar 10, 2010 Location: St. Paul, MN Arena: Xcel Energy Center
Attendance:5420

Rochester Lourdes (17-8-3) vs. Warroad (24-4-0)
Date: Mar 10, 2010 Location: St. Paul, MN Arena: Xcel Energy Center
Attendance:4165

The morning session ahd more fans than the evening session.

[ACTUALFORMERPLAYER]

The problem isn't the venue it's the attendance. There are a number of issues at the root of this, part of it is the perception of girls/womens hockey and part of it is the conflicts created by Minnesota Hockey but most of all its the very people who are involved in the sport itself (MSHL, Players, Parents, Coaches).

People way to often compare the girls game to boys/mens hockey. It is not the right way to look at it. I often hear people say things like the best girls team couldn't beat our class A boys team or the womens Olympic team could beat a good HS team. If that is the only way you look at it then why would you ever watch anything other than the NHL? The fact that it is not the fastest, hardest hitting, best played game in the sport is true but its true for boys HS and College games as well. Any fan of hockey who saw the section Girls 6AA final at Parade saw an entertaining game. HS Girls hockey can be a great game for fans to watch and that perception needs to change.

Minnesota hockey once again schedule almost every girls youth hockey team in the state in district playoffs over the tourney weekend. This needs to stop. The youth hockey teams are down to just the state participants by the time boys hockey rolls around. We need girls youth hockey players and families at the X for the girls HS tourney, it’s a chance for them to see the best of the best. To learn by watching how they play and to have some high goals to aspire and chase.

Why do players and parents not show up at the X if their team gets knocked out (what does it say to your daughters if you make an effort to see the boys tourney and not the girls)? Why do teams continue to make a farce out of the class A tournament by not opting up to a competitive level (one team scoring 45 goals in 2 years is a horrible thing for the tourney). Why does MSHL not make competitive realignment of sections, we need more competitive 1st round games in both classes.

Sorry to preach but if you want to fix the tourney I think moving it is not the answer. Sure the atmosphere at Ridder was rocking but it was the same number of people in a smaller space. There are 13000 girls who play hockey in this state another 3000 adult women. The sport has grown time to start asking why the crowds haven’t. I think it is an entertaining game to watch so I don’t believe that people don’t enjoy watching.

#1 In my experience the boys/girls quality comparison usually comes from girl's supporters arguing with haters. Most haters don't compare they just don't want to be a part of it.

#2 Minnesota hockey schedules all youths at the same time. The MSHSL schedules the high school girls earlier so they do not have a scheduling conflict with the boys. Is it more important to play at the X or have fans there?

This one is not one of your points but it is brought up all the time. The X is where the Wild play. If it's about playing where the best women's team plays, time to move it to the DECC or Ridder. The WNHL is not on the horizon and D-I is the goal and that should not be taken lightly or as a jab.

There is also a serious lack of understanding when it comes to Title IX. When the NCAA schedules the men's and women's final four the facilities are not equal in any way. They try to get 50,000 plus seating for the men's or 100,000 this season. For the women's it is usually around 20,000. Almost every historical legal gain for women's athletics has happened through women's basketball and they are not trying to do it the same or equal. They are doing what is best for the sport.