Mahtomedi @ Hill Murray thursday feb. 4th 8:00

[ilivegreen60]

Game is at Hill's barn old aldrich arena. Nail bitter between these two teams last time they met 5-4 pioneers. Who takes this one?

My prediction:

Pioneers- 4

Zephyrs- 2

[Goldfishdude]

greenie.... I agree with that score of 4-2 H-M...

[wblhockeyfan8]

My bias says that it'll reverse to...

Maht 5 HM 4

[Goldfishdude]

Not after Lex's locker room speech before the game!!!

http://www.youtube.com/user/DiNap44#p/c ... _yHzUzlUCU

[hockeyfan893]

[quote="Goldfishdude"]Not after Lex's locker room speech before the game!!!

http://www.youtube.com/user/DiNap44#p/c ... _yHzUzlUCU[/quote]

Well played Mr. Goldfishdude.

4-1 Hill

[starmvp]

Hill 5-2

[pioneers]

Not after Lex's locker room speech before the game!!!

http://www.youtube.com/user/DiNap44#p/c ... _yHzUzlUCU

Well played Mr. Goldfishdude.

4-1 Hill

I think Mr Wayne did a great Lechner impersonation. Pioneers by 3

[eastsideguy]

Hill 6-2

[pioneers]

HM 5 Maht 3

[pioneers]

1st Period
M Jordan UA

2nd Period
H-M Bruski-Faust
M Mars-Zurn-Adams
H-M French-LaValle

3rd Period
H-M Casto UA
M Gregory UA SH
H-M Walsh-Phillippi-Bruchu (Walsh was credited, but Phillippi actually scored the goal)
H-M Faust UA EN

Pioneers lose Becker to what looks like a concussion and Sampair with a major and game for checking from behind

[wblhockeyfan8]

Shoot!

[sachishi4]

win #1000!!

[Goldfishdude]

win #1000!!

No kidding??? Congrats to the school and anyone who has ever played for H-m.

[hockeyfan893]

HM's Becker was taken off on a stretcher during the first intermission. Hope he's alright, any updates on his condition?

[stpaul]

Hill-Murray 5, Mahtomedi 3 (en)

Just got home from Aldrich. It was a real battle. HM's Kevin Becker took a nasty cheap shot elbow in the 1st at center ice. He was taken to the hospital on a stretcher during the first intermission. No penalty called. HM did too much retaliating during the next period and a half. Charlie Sampair got a game misconduct for a check from behind and will be out Saturday vs. STA. The refs lost control of the game. Mahtomedi had a 7 minute power play in the 2nd & went ahead 2-1. HM tied it up late on the power play after Ben Marshall took a stupid unsportsmanship conduct penalty for Mahtomedi. The 3rd period was a different game entirely & HM had the better of it. Chris Casto scored a beauty on an end to end rush to put HM up 3-2. Mahtomedi tied it shorthanded when HM Goalie Shaughnessy and his defender ran into each other behind the net. HM got the winner in a scrum in front of the net with 4-1/2 min. left by Jack Walsh.

Hope Kevin Becker is OK. HM is now 18-1-1. Congrats to HM on the school's 1000th win. 1000-279-28 all time. 50 years of excellence. Also congrats to the HM girls winning their 4th straight conference title with the 5-1 win over SSP yesterday.

[njmarshall20]

Hill-Murray 5, Mahtomedi 3 (en)

Just got home from Aldrich. It was a real battle. HM's Kevin Becker took a nasty cheap shot elbow in the 1st at center ice. He was taken to the hospital on a stretcher during the first intermission. No penalty called. HM did too much retaliating during the next period and a half. Charlie Sampair got a game misconduct for a check from behind and will be out Saturday vs. STA. The refs lost control of the game. Mahtomedi had a 7 minute power play in the 2nd & went ahead 2-1. HM tied it up late on the power play after Ben Marshall took a stupid unsportsmanship conduct penalty for Mahtomedi. The 3rd period was a different game entirely & HM had the better of it. Chris Casto scored a beauty on an end to end rush to put HM up 3-2. Mahtomedi tied it shorthanded when HM Goalie Shaughnessy and his defender ran into each other behind the net. HM got the winner in a scrum in front of the net with 4-1/2 min. left by Jack Walsh.

Hope Kevin Becker is OK. HM is now 18-1-1. Congrats to HM on the school's 1000th win. 1000-279-28 all time. 50 years of excellence. Also congrats to the HM girls winning their 4th straight conference title with the 5-1 win over SSP yesterday.

I was there too. Great game. Clean hit at center ice...kid dumped the puck in the zone with his head down. Zephyr player just finished the check driving his SHOULDER through the HM player. Hope the kid is alright, as he couldn't even get off the ice under his own two feet. HM won a game they should've but looked absolutely terrible.

[Pioneerprideguy]

Congrats on the win last night Pioneers. Good teams find different ways to win and do so while maybe not playing their best. Hopefully Kevin heals quickly and good luck tomorrow night. Sharing is nice, but not when it involves STA!

Also, congrats to the HM Hockey Program on win # 1,000. Thanks for the excitement & entertainment over the years and look forward to the next 1,000.

[wblhockeyfan8]

1000-278, that's a PHENOMENAL record!

Unbelievable! Congrats HM

[HShockeywatcher]

Congrats on the win last night Pioneers. Good teams find different ways to win and do so while maybe not playing their best. Hopefully Kevin heals quickly and good luck tomorrow night. Sharing is nice, but not when it involves STA!

Yeah. The pioneers basically locked up at least a tie for conference champs

[stpaul]

Interesting perspective from the Mahtomedi side there njmarshall20.

"Clean hit at center ice...kid dumped the puck in the zone with his head down. Zephyr player just finished the check driving his SHOULDER through the HM player. Hope the kid is alright, as he couldn't even get off the ice under his own two feet."

Fact is Kevin Becker no longer had the puck and was skating to the bench. He was hit high with a shoulder, stick and elbow. Capitalizing the word shoulder must make you feel better about what you saw. I saw a kid knocked unconscious and taken to the hospital. It was a cheap shot and attempt to injure. It worked.

By making no call, the refs then lost control of the game. They didn't know what to call during the 2nd period and it got ugly. Several times they missed the cheap shots and called penalties on the retaliation. This includes Ben Marshall's unsportmanship penalty. He did some stupid shoving after the whistle but it was after he got mugged. He was on the opposite side of one of those earlier where he got away with a high stick and boarding and HM got called for the penalty when the kid hit back. Thank God the 3rd period settled into good hockey.

"HM won a game they should've but looked absolutely terrible."

Thats seems like a slap at your own club. Mahtomedi was 15-4 and ranked #5 in the State in Class A. HM looked terrible during the last part of the 1st period and during the 2nd. They were rattled by seeing their teammate hauled out on a stretcher. These are 15-18 yr olds and I'm sure emotions were running high. They played shorthanded for 7 minutes including a 5 on 3. Yet the score was 2-2. HM looked pretty good in the 3rd period scoring 3 times. Mahtomedi has lots of talent, has a solid goalie, is speedy and can skate with Hill-Murray. I give HM a lot of credit for coming out strong in the 3rd and winning a big game against a very good opponent.

[Pioneerprideguy]

Any updates on Kevin's status would be greatly appreciated.

[wingman]

Was it a clean hit -No it occured well after the puck was no where around-hence no call from the referres because it happened behind the play. Did the kid hit him with his shoulder-Only if that is considered and apendage of the elbow. Did the Mahtomedi kid try to hurt him-No. Bottom line its hockey and those things from time to time occur. If it were caught by one of the refs it most likely would have been a penalty. We can all hope & pray that Kevin Becker will make a quick recovery, and based on prelim reports he will be OK. I have to agree the refs in general in the MSHL have no clue what a hitting from behind penalty really is. The rule specifically states if the player turns to shy away from the hit, quickly and in the process exposes his back side to quickly for the opposing player to avoid, it is not a game misconduct. And if anyone has seen Ben Marshall turn on his skates, (i mean it is lighting fast)you would all agree. I would go so far as to say it is not a penalty at all. Some refs know how to call it, some don't have a clue. But by this time the refs last night had lost total control. I saw several players get hit up high with sticks and elbows and no call--and this play preceded the all out penalty melee of the 2nd period that was about to occur. Bruchu had a wonderful hit along the boards, Medi kid is upended into the HM bench, and just possibly a small extra push, but nothing 'penalty' about it. So what do the refs do they give the Bruchu a 'fan' or 'grand stand' penalty cause the fans got excited....and I think the ref talk went like this...."gol darn jim that just don't look right"...."I reckon your right ricky bobby"...."the fans sure in thunk so"...."yep just something about it....2minutes I reckon".... Believe me they missed alot...but other than that a great game.....

[deliveryguy]

Was it a clean hit -No it occured well after the puck was no where around-hence no call from the referres because it happened behind the play. Did the kid hit him with his shoulder-Only if that is considered and apendage of the elbow. Did the Mahtomedi kid try to hurt him-No. Bottom line its hockey and those things from time to time occur. If it were caught by one of the refs it most likely would have been a penalty. We can all hope & pray that Kevin Becker will make a quick recovery, and based on prelim reports he will be OK. I have to agree the refs in general in the MSHL have no clue what a hitting from behind penalty really is. The rule specifically states if the player turns to shy away from the hit, quickly and in the process exposes his back side to quickly for the opposing player to avoid, it is not a game misconduct. And if anyone has seen Ben Marshall turn on his skates, (i mean it is lighting fast)you would all agree. I would go so far as to say it is not a penalty at all. Some refs know how to call it, some don't have a clue. But by this time the refs last night had lost total control. I saw several players get hit up high with sticks and elbows and no call--and this play preceded the all out penalty melee of the 2nd period that was about to occur. Bruchu had a wonderful hit along the boards, Medi kid is upended into the HM bench, and just possibly a small extra push, but nothing 'penalty' about it. So what do the refs do they give the Bruchu a 'fan' or 'grand stand' penalty cause the fans got excited....and I think the ref talk went like this...."gol darn jim that just don't look right"...."I reckon your right ricky bobby"...."the fans sure in thunk so"...."yep just something about it....2minutes I reckon".... Believe me they missed alot...but other than that a great game.....

I was also at the game and agree that things got out of hand. The refs could've/should've reined things in earlier. Some observations though... First was there some retaliation going on for the Becker hit? Maybe, probably... Were the players getting caught up with the aggressive play? yes, remember we're still dealing with kids here too... Do I believe the coaches encouraged illegal or dangerous hits? absolutely NOT, too much class and experience in those ranks... Do I find it reprehensible for parents in the stands to be cheering when an obvious cheap shot/penalty is executed by their team? Absolutely. Some extraordinarily shameful behavior by some of the Hill parents, cheering for cheap shots (to be fair, I only heard it out of two of them - but the crowd mentality was certainly growing). Go ahead and accuse me of whatever, but as parents, we set the example. Cheering for slashes, elbows, intention to injure and so on, has no place. Give me a good clean, well executed hip check in mid ice and I'll cheer and clap till my hands hurt. Shameful examples were being set though. Really too bad...

[MN93]

[quote="deliveryguy"][quote="wingman"]Was it a clean hit -No it occured well after the puck was no where around-hence no call from the referres because it happened behind the play.

Apparently Hill-Murray fans (stpaul & wingman) are unable to be objective when commenting on the check to Becker. It is simply incorrect to state that “the hit occurred well after the puck was no where around”. According to the rule book (http://www.nfhs.org/category.aspx?taxid=137) a check is legal while the player has control or possession of the puck, and control does not change until another player picks up the puck.
Hence that is why the kids are taught that you have up to 3 seconds to check an opponent after the puck leaves their stick. So while Becker did not have possession of the puck once he dumped it, he retains control of the puck until another player takes over possession. The check was at center ice with all three referees observing and all three conferred and agreed that it was a clean hit.

Of course the Mahtomedi player did not mean to intentionally hurt Becker, they have known each other since they were kids and played AAA summer hockey together.

Another important thing to point out is that Becker has had 2 previous concussions within the last year, which makes him much more susceptible to get another one.
“After having one concussion you are more likely to have another — some doctors estimate you increase your risk up to three times. A concussion causes chemical changes in your brain, which leave the brain unbalanced and more prone to damage for up to a year, said David Hovda, director of the Brain Injury Research Center at the University of California, Los Angeles.”

Because of his history, Becker is much more likely to have a concussion from a clean check than someone that has no history of concussions.

Point being, if another player had taken the same hit, they probably wouldn’t have been affected the way that Becker was.

Everyone is hoping and praying for Kevin to have a speedy recovery.

[HShockeywatcher]

Was it a clean hit -No it occured well after the puck was no where around-hence no call from the referres because it happened behind the play. Did the kid hit him with his shoulder-Only if that is considered and apendage of the elbow. Did the Mahtomedi kid try to hurt him-No. Bottom line its hockey and those things from time to time occur. If it were caught by one of the refs it most likely would have been a penalty. We can all hope & pray that Kevin Becker will make a quick recovery, and based on prelim reports he will be OK. I have to agree the refs in general in the MSHL have no clue what a hitting from behind penalty really is. The rule specifically states if the player turns to shy away from the hit, quickly and in the process exposes his back side to quickly for the opposing player to avoid, it is not a game misconduct. And if anyone has seen Ben Marshall turn on his skates, (i mean it is lighting fast)you would all agree. I would go so far as to say it is not a penalty at all. Some refs know how to call it, some don't have a clue. But by this time the refs last night had lost total control. I saw several players get hit up high with sticks and elbows and no call--and this play preceded the all out penalty melee of the 2nd period that was about to occur. Bruchu had a wonderful hit along the boards, Medi kid is upended into the HM bench, and just possibly a small extra push, but nothing 'penalty' about it. So what do the refs do they give the Bruchu a 'fan' or 'grand stand' penalty cause the fans got excited....and I think the ref talk went like this...."gol darn jim that just don't look right"...."I reckon your right ricky bobby"...."the fans sure in thunk so"...."yep just something about it....2minutes I reckon".... Believe me they missed alot...but other than that a great game.....

I do have a lot of comments on this, but I'll try to keep it, for me, short.

When you say things like this, you need to remember that coaches rate refs on how they do and not only does that rating carry with them as a ref but it determines whether or not that coach will have that ref often anymore. So, there are really many factors that go into how games are reffed.

The MSHSL comes out and says "we're tightening things up" when really they mean "let's go back to calling the game how it's written since things have slipped." Well, many coaches/communities like the rough game with calls not made. So, if you call it how it's supposed to be called you won't get good ratings.

Not only are the refs human, but many (probably most) are/were hockey players. There are 3 refs and 12+ guys on the ice; it's not possible to see everything that happens. Beyond the human factor, maybe a ref prefers a more physical game personally and lets things slide.

So, in a nut shell, I agree. In many team sports reffing is often called very lopsided and not called by the book, from hockey to basketball to football. Refs/parents/coaches/players often want refs to "let them play" when really they are "letting rules slide."

The only real solution, in my opinion, is to have some sort of system where random games are re-watched, or officials are at random games watching refs, publicly criticizing them when they screw up. I have been to many games where the officials decided the outcome of the game and it is very upsetting. In the locker room you just tell your players that you can only affect certain aspects of the game.

The old adage of "if you could do a better job, you should become one" is crap. Anyway, until something happens to actually enforce games being called better, games will get out of hand and terrible accidents like this will be "just part of the game."