quickfeet wrote:A true defenseman is the hardest position to judge. You really need to watch a game and watch the individual to determine if they really are a defensive defenseman.
A few tips on what they do best.
They get the puck out of the zone.
They dig in the corners.
They are strong in front of their own net.
They have a great shot from the point.
They hold the blue line.
They pinch at the right time.
They get the puck down low.
They stop the one on ones.
They skate backwards faster then they do forward.
They do the little things well with or without the puck.
They don’t get much credit but strive on doing their job well.
Their attitude is team first.
They are the kids that a coach and team can rely on.
They are extremely hard workers.
If you have one of these girls on your team, CONGRATULATIONS!
It is hard to evaluate a defensive defenseman so I would not put to much into NDP
great post!! I have to add one more to it though:
Creating offsides by forcing the blueline and making the puck carrier go lateral.
A good share of the girls listed below have already been mentioned by others here, having made NDP, etc. but here are the defensemen that will be playing in the upcoming Midwest Elite League plus the Minnesotans who were selected to play in Junior Fest this past summer.
Elite League – North
Erika Magnussen Fergus Falls 91 D
Alyssa Jackson Cambridge 91 D
Janessa Haller Anoka 91 D
Amanda Monkman Roseau 92 D
Rose Alleva Red Wing 92 D
Maddie Marcotte White Bear Lk 92 D
Elite League – Metro West
Ellie Gleason Edina 91 D
Lindsay Domaas BSM 91 D
Julie Baumgartner BSM 91 D
Hilary Hayssen Blake 92 D
Catie Ladner Chaska 92 D
Christina LaCombe Eden Prairie 92 D
Elite League – Metro East
Kelsey Romatoski AHA 91 D
Lauryn Morris Park 91 D
Natalie Wedell Mounds View 91 D
Lisa Martinson SLP 91 D
Danielle Scholzen Blaine 92 D
Maggie Pendleton Hill Murray 92 D
Junior Festival
Brianna Drude D North
Casey Knajdek D Hill-Murray
Amber Ostoff D Mankato West
Allison Lorbiecki D Stillwater
Melissa Vavra D Hopkins
Kallie Geissler D Elk River
Ashley Maskel D Eastview
Kate Wahlin D Lakeville South
Alyssa Jackson D Cambridge-Isanti
Janessa Haller D Anoka
Jill Stecklein D Roseville
Kelsey Romatoski D Academy of Holy Angels
Nicole Neumann D Bloomington Jefferson
Madison Styrbicki D Breck
Natalie Wedell D Mounds View
Erika Wheelhouse D Crookston
Judy Daleiden D Blaine
Lindsay Domaas D Benilde St. Margaret's
Erika Magnusson D Fergus Falls
Catherine Pollack D Hopkins
Samantha Meuwissen D Chaska
Amber Zambrano D Maple Grove
Hilary Hayssen D Blake
Julie Baumgartner D Benilde St. Margaret's
Lisa Martinson D St. Louis Park
Calli Tosney D Academy of Holy Angels
Anna Sombrio D North Wright County
Lauryn Morris D Park of Cottage Grove
Sara Olson D Dodge County
Hey Joe, This is a great question since they rarely show up in the stat sheets and unless you follow a team closely you would not really know. I think we need input from each team in this regard. These players that you are looking for play their position and are often on penalty kill. As far as Hopkins goes, it is undoubtedly Melissa Vavra (good size, very strong/aggressive and great positioning).
joehockey wrote:"....I was complaining how you never hear about the best defensive defensemen. I want to know who isn't going to show up on a scoring chart but is the heart and soul of a team. Can some people chime in here and let me know who some of the best are? Even if they are offensive, I'd still like to hear who the best D are in the state, but even more so, who are the D that are getting overlooked because they are so defensive?"
Ok so I don't see many names....only discount of posts does that mean there are not top of mind "Defensive Definsive Leaders" anyone can point to or post - I think that is what this post was asking?
My reason for posting the NDP stats/names was there is a very wide spread on stats - it is also a way to look at kids across sections and the state - which as the posts say you can't compare stats because of varying levels of competition. The Phase III group listed were all good and there were probably good D left out at Phase II and maybe Phase I depending on the section? In our U16 section which is the pretty strong eastside of metro there were not a lot of kids left out of Phase I because I think only 3-4 total didn't advance to Phase II because there were not a lot of kids who went out - it may become more of an issue if more kids tryout? Love it or hate it is a set of D pretty good at defense and game - with 6 D spots at U15 and U16 and 4-5 at U17 a lot of good players don't make it to NDP. We also know for many reasons (school nomination - maybe, spring sports, spring break trips, inujury) some kids aren't in the process. And all of us can probably point to some great kids who didn't advance as discussed "eye of the beholder" but to thier programs they are still huge assets and top players.
So who are those over looked "Defensive D" as the post asked..... HansonBros. - who are yours? I know there are a lot out there that people see and think highly of.
quickfeet wrote:A true defenseman is the hardest position to judge. You really need to watch a game and watch the individual to determine if they really are a defensive defenseman.
A few tips on what they do best.
They get the puck out of the zone.
They dig in the corners.
They are strong in front of their own net.
They have a great shot from the point.
They hold the blue line.
They pinch at the right time.
They get the puck down low.
They stop the one on ones.
They skate backwards faster then they do forward.
They do the little things well with or without the puck.
They don’t get much credit but strive on doing their job well.
Their attitude is team first.
They are the kids that a coach and team can rely on.
They are extremely hard workers.
If you have one of these girls on your team, CONGRATULATIONS!
It is hard to evaluate a defensive defenseman so I would not put to much into NDP
They get the puck out of the zone.
They dig in the corners. and win the puck.
They are strong in front of their own net.
They have a great shot from the point.
They hold the blue line.
They pinch at the right time.
They get the puck down low.
They stop the one on ones. one on one's should be easy it's the 2v1,3v1 that are the toughest.
They skate backwards faster then they do forward.
They do the little things well with or without the puck.
They don’t get much credit but strive on doing their job well.
Their attitude is team first.
They are the kids that a coach and team can rely on.
They are extremely hard workers.
They have the vision to make the right play.
They must make all others on their team better.
They communicate with their partner, goalie and all players on the ice.
They must beat the 1st person creating odd man.
They must be disiplined and be smart when short handed.
They must know what they're going to do with it before they get it. Of course are strong against ALL teams not just the weak ones
Instead of naming individual players I thought I would take a different appproach. Which are the best Defensive Teams? Defense has many factors such as goal tending, forwards who back check etc but I think the Best Defensive teams logically have some of the best defensive players.
I'll throw out some stats for discussion. I took the top 15 rated teams per KRACH and looked at the most obvious statistic Goal Against Average (GAA). All these teams have a GAA under 3 which is probably why they are the top 15 ranked teams. To give some texture and reasons to argue I also put the (KRACH Rank) and Strength of Schedule (SOS) next to the stats.
My two cents is as follows. IMO Warroad, Edina, Roseville and Minnetonka have the best overall D. Warroad, Edina, Roseville and Minnetonka have very good overall D (goalies and blue liners). Hopkins on the other hand is a good D team but I think their sterling stats have more to do with their outstanding goalie. I'm not convinced that Breck would be a top D if they played a tougher schedule (i.e. SOS is a poor 45).
Team GAA Rank, Team Name, (GAA), (KRACH Rank), (SOS)
Because many of these girls are never mentioned I thought I would list all of the D per the official MSHSL roster. The D on what I consider the top 4 teams, Warroad, Edina, Roseville and Minnetonka are as follows (with grade and stats G-A-total). Girls are list in order of points for their respective teams. It doesn't mean anything other than a way to see who are also top offensive contributors. Stats are from MGHCA except for Minnetonka since their MGHCA stats didn't appear complete.
Warroad
Hannah Johnston-Sophomore 12-22-34
Beth Olson-Junior 1-16-17
Aspen Pomplun-Freshman 0-11-11
Jane Astrup-Junior 1-9-10
Lynn Astrup-8th Grade 1-4-5
Tori Lien-Sophomore 0-1-1
Edina
Greer Vogl-Junior 5-13-18
Ellie Gleason-Senior 6-11-17
Megan Armstrong-Sophomore 4-11-15
Laura Hinueber-Senior 1-10-11
Kelly Thotland-Junior 1-4-5
Emily Flom-Junior 0-0-0
Roseville
Allie Duelmann-Senior 12-19-31
Chelsea Witwicke-Senior 8-23-31
Lee Stecklein-Sophomore 7-4-11
Kendall Evenson-Junior 3-4-7
Paige Jahnke-Sophomore 1-2-3
Jordan Capeti-Sophomore 0-2-2
Christina Hecker-Freshman 0-0-0
OntheEdge wrote:Instead of naming individual players I thought I would take a different appproach. Which are the best Defensive Teams? Defense has many factors such as goal tending, forwards who back check etc but I think the Best Defensive teams logically have some of the best defensive players.
I'll throw out some stats for discussion. I took the top 15 rated teams per KRACH and looked at the most obvious statistic Goal Against Average (GAA). All these teams have a GAA under 3 which is probably why they are the top 15 ranked teams. To give some texture and reasons to argue I also put the (KRACH Rank) and Strength of Schedule (SOS) next to the stats.
My two cents is as follows. IMO Warroad, Edina, Roseville and Minnetonka have the best overall D. Warroad, Edina, Roseville and Minnetonka have very good overall D (goalies and blue liners). Hopkins on the other hand is a good D team but I think their sterling stats have more to do with their outstanding goalie. I'm not convinced that Breck would be a top D if they played a tougher schedule (i.e. SOS is a poor 45).
Team GAA Rank, Team Name, (GAA), (KRACH Rank), (SOS)
I think that Hopkins has a very good Goalie and D I think that their D does not get the credit they deserve sometimes. They do a good job of keeping the puck on the edges, and swarming the puck carrier in their zone.
hockeya1a wrote:I think that Hopkins has a very good Goalie and D I think that their D does not get the credit they deserve sometimes. They do a good job of keeping the puck on the edges, and swarming the puck carrier in their zone.
Its fun to argue stats but only someone who watches all of the time really knows. I'm not saying that I'm that person but from the games I saw Hopkins D was good but not as intimidating as some of the other top defensive teams. It was just my opinion from a few games so I decided to look at some more stats (SOG). Obviously there are problems since we don't know the quality of the shots (or the quality of the scorekeeper) but I looked at the stats available to see if my opinion is justified (I decided not to include Warroad since they were missing too many games from Minnesota-scores.net).
Edina gave up an average of 18.23 shots/game
Roseville gave up an average of 18.95 shots/game
Minnetonka gave up an average of 19.43 shots/game
Hopkins gave up an average of 28.85 shots/game
In my unskilled opinion, its Hopkins' goalie that puts Hopkins' defense in the class of Warroad, Edina, Roseville, and Minnetonka.
Last edited by OntheEdge on Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I think your right on Kallie is the best I have seen in HS since Grogan. The amazing thing about that 28 shots a game number is that there are very few 2nd shots in there. Most chances against the Royals are 1 and done.
Watching Hopkins all year our D is probably not as strong top to bottom as Edina, Roseville, or Tonka. I think I would take the Hopkins top 2 against any other top two but 3 through 5 or 6 the royals have improved a great deal through the year but are not yet elite. I think Edina D unit is the best I have seen, they battle you from ten feet inside your blue line to the other end. They don't make many mistakes, nothing is easy in those games.
I think with Warroad having a SOS at #19 you need to throw the stats out altogether. They have to many games against overmatched opponents that scew the stats.
I am hoping the top four move forward at the AA tourney to see the Edina D vs Irondale O. Roseville's top line vs Hopkins D and goalie.
royals dad wrote:I think your right on Kallie is the best I have seen in HS since Grogan. The amazing thing about that 28 shots a game number is that there are very few 2nd shots in there. Most chances against the Royals are 1 and done.
Watching Hopkins all year our D is probably not as strong top to bottom as Edina, Roseville, or Tonka. I think I would take the Hopkins top 2 against any other top two but 3 through 5 or 6 the royals have improved a great deal through the year but are not yet elite. I think Edina D unit is the best I have seen, they battle you from ten feet inside your blue line to the other end. They don't make many mistakes, nothing is easy in those games.
I think with Warroad having a SOS at #19 you need to throw the stats out altogether. They have to many games against overmatched opponents that scew the stats.
I am hoping the top four move forward at the AA tourney to see the Edina D vs Irondale O. Roseville's top line vs Hopkins D and goalie.
Ok RoyalsDad you make some good arguments and I'm not one to exclude any girls. Here's another top D corp (number 5 on my list), Hopkins: