Is Breck the best team in the state?

[MNSportsRube]

Class A is a JV tournament

I always love that one...


I feel Breck could compete with the best teams in the state, but they're not the best team in the state.

[saucepass]

Hey Slapshot- sounds like you are an edina jock sniffer. Get your boys and call some breck boys....book some ice time and play a game. If you are that confident, than they will step up and beat brecks team. I believe the breck kids would strap them on over the next few weeks. Would Edinas? With both schools money...make it a charity event?!?!

Only problem is Edina would be embarrassed if they lost....

Without the hermantown trap, no school can skate with breck..edina or hill murray would be close.

[blueblood]

With two state champs, we will never know who's best in the current format....

[blueblood]

saucer:

there are several teams that could skate with breck including tonka, ep, wayzata, and bsm just to name a few.

[keepyourheadup]

STA skated circles around them, did they improve that much? They are in the discussion..a great team..leave it at that.

[saucepass]

I think they may be better teams...but they don't have the team speed to keep up with them.

You can coach the teams to do what Hermantown did to slow them down. But if you play breck straight up, they have too much speed.

I believe that the top 6 teams in the state can beat each other on any given night.

[keepyourheadup]

So coach Plante spent the year preparing a plan to slow down Breck in the state final. He had about a half day to prepare, so either his kids are all Einstiens and were able to master the system in about 12 hours or they just went out and played their game and mighty Breck had a little trouble adjusting to what they were doing. Like I said , Breck is right up there with the best, regardless of class, To make a claim that they are the best is simply impossible to defend.

[Red Ice]

I will keep repeating myself till it happens:

1 class 16 team tournament!!

I'm old school Section 8, so I do think winning the section tourney should be priority #1.

All 8 section winners in State Tourney seeded 1-8.
All the section runner-ups host a 1 game play-in. ALL the rest of the teams that didn't make the section finals get ranked... the top 8 and section does not matter, you could have more than 1 team or no team from each section go and play 1 game to get in the State Tourney.

I don't know much about other sections but section 8 and section 7 from up North would have great section championships, great 1 game play-in games and very competitive teams sent down to State!!

Small school, large school, private school = 1 Champ

HELLO, Minnesota High School Hockey you gave the Tier1 Tier2 Tourney a 2 year try! If the goal was to get lesser teams a chance to play at State that Tier system worked great.

WE all want the best tourney possible.

[letsgowild]

Class A is a JV tournament

Go work on your hair buddy!! The Final Four teams in the A tournament were as a good as the final four in the AA tournament.

Here's something to think about....If you would combine Hermantown, Mahtomedi, Warroad, and Breck....There enrollment is 2,537.The enrollment of Edina is 2,364 and minnetonka is 2,777.( pound for pound A schools are better than AA schools???? ) Because if you would combine these 4 class A teams they would crush any class AA school.

[keepyourheadup]

I'd ask that you take Breck out of the equation...they have no youth program to support them and are at the mercy/benefit of who ever chooses to attend. Heck, you could make the same arguement and leave Breck out. The combination of the other three you mentioned would have been one hell of a good team!

[moose27]

[quote="slapshot445"][quote="moose27"][quote="sickflow22"]Class A is a JV tournament[/quote]


Go work on your hair buddy!! The Final Four teams in the A tournament were as a good as the final four in the AA tournament.[/quote]

you obviously have no hockey integrity whatsoever, edina would beat breck 5 to 0. i know cuz i personally have played against multiple players from both teams, edina jv would be more suitable for breck to play. it's just fact if you watch the games it is obvious which class is better[/quote]


Your integrity was lost with two letters pal.. JV.. If you honestly watched the final 4 in each class and said this, it is obvious you have no scouting or evaluation skills whats so ever!!

[muckandgrind]

As long as Breck continues to chase trophies and play at the "A" level in the tournament, we'll never know how good they really are.

[StayAtHomeD]

Just put all the Privates in Class AA. Those kids are there for the Morality lessons and the education and sports should come last on their priority list.

The Class A Tourney was meant for small town teams. It's really sad the way that rich people have a tendency to really screw up pretty much everything they touch.

I mean every single kid on the Breck team played their youth hockey in Edina, Wayzata, Minnetonka, Minneapolis, and other large associations. They went to Minnesota Made hockey and every big dollar training center that their Cadillac Escalade driving parents could find on their GPS.

So it's fair that just because they end up in a tiny, elite school they get to corrupt the A tourney?

Kids from Farmington, Northfield, and other small TOWNS don't get the chance.

That is a FUBAR system folks.

[muckandgrind]

Just put all the Privates in Class AA. Those kids are there for the Morality lessons and the education and sports should come last on their priority list.

The Class A Tourney was meant for small town teams. It's really sad the way that rich people have a tendency to really screw up pretty much everything they touch.

I mean every single kid on the Breck team played their youth hockey in Edina, Wayzata, Minnetonka, Minneapolis, and other large associations. They went to Minnesota Made hockey and every big dollar training center that their Cadillac Escalade driving parents could find on their GPS.

So it's fair that just because they end up in a tiny, elite school they get to corrupt the A tourney?

Kids from Farmington, Northfield, and other small TOWNS don't get the chance.

That is a FUBAR system folks.

Well said!!

[BodyShots]

Just put all the Privates in Class AA. Those kids are there for the Morality lessons and the education and sports should come last on their priority list.

The Class A Tourney was meant for small town teams. It's really sad the way that rich people have a tendency to really screw up pretty much everything they touch.

I mean every single kid on the Breck team played their youth hockey in Edina, Wayzata, Minnetonka, Minneapolis, and other large associations. They went to Minnesota Made hockey and every big dollar training center that their Cadillac Escalade driving parents could find on their GPS.

So it's fair that just because they end up in a tiny, elite school they get to corrupt the A tourney?

Kids from Farmington, Northfield, and other small TOWNS don't get the chance.

That is a FUBAR system folks.

I couldn't agree with you more! Hockey is a very expensive sport, and the wealthy are able to send their little Johnny's to summer camps and AAA teams during the off season. These same wealthy people are able to send their kids to private schools. When little Johnny plays with little Jimmy, and little Billy on the AAA teams, they become good friends and want to play together all the time. So they talk it over and decide Private X is close by and they can all go there and continue their hockey careers. There is no way the small time communities can compete with that. Thus the reason for Class A hockey.

[northwoods oldtimer]

There is no way the small time communities can compete with that. Thus the reason for Class A hockey.

From my seat at Excel I thought Hermantown competed very well with Breck. Who got the better bang for their buck in the hockey development dollar race? Hard to say as it is very expensive to play the sport. My guess however is that not many Hermantown kids played at Mn Made rinks in the summer months. I do not mind the private schools competing in A level, it raises the expectations for teams like Hermantown and Warroad.

[Goldfishdude]

I personally could give a Bodyshot's butt about the argument of whether or not a team like Breck or STA moves up to Class AA. Or if it's unfair for our Section 4AA to be ruled by H-M.. By rules, their enrollment falls within scope of which level they have chosen to play at, and just because Roseau, H-M and East opt to play up, doesn't mean anyone else has to.

Private schools are a business. For every Hill-Murray, there is a St. Bernard's, which has declared after 100+ years of providing an education, that it is closing. For every STA, there is a Mounds Park Academy/St. Paul Academy co-op. It's a private business, and if they choose to recruit to keep enrollment up for ALL extra-curricular activities, then that's what they have to do. Maybe on a job resume, it's looks better that you attended Cretin versus Highland Park..

Maybe there are more players like Mark Alt, who moreso went to CDH to be a QB, but just happened to be a very good hockey player. We can't assume all these players went to a private school just for hockey. Tom Quinlan was a H-M grad that was a solid hockey player, but plays in the MLB.

Does STA or Breck care what we think? Are they in business to please us? If trying to win a Class A state championship is more important to them, then let them do what they want. Maybe they are realistic and KNOW they can't compete with Class AA schools when it comes to sections, as to why they choose to stay in Class A. After all, they have lost twice to Mahtomedi to get to state.

You know, Holy Angels and Benilde didn't take much heat this year, because as it turned out, were nothing more than 4 seeds in sections (I think).. They were good squads. But, if they won the sections like H-M, everyone would be complaining about the unfair advantage.

The past couple years, H-M has CUT more kids than White Bear had trying out. For my selfish reasons, if it weren't for private schools like H-M, my son probably never would have worn a HS sweater, and think of the kids that got cut from H-M, that were probably good enough to play at a public school, but, no longer get the chance to play HS.

Although I agree that a private school is more about the morality and education , and sports/extra curricular activiites should be secondary, to make a blanket statement that all private schools should be in Class AA is wrong. And to state that the elite private schools should be in Class AA is borderline discriminatory for the MSHSL to require.

We all need to stop bitching about the publics versus privates, and just continue to hate the privates. This stuff isn't going to change.

With that said, Randy Shaver from KARE 11, and the leader and originator of HS sports weekly coverage was on 93X Monday morn, and he stated it was time for Breck to think about a move to Class AA.. It will take a guy like Shaver to possibly shake some things up, not us.

[StayAtHomeD]

There is no way the small time communities can compete with that. Thus the reason for Class A hockey.

From my seat at Excel I thought Hermantown competed very well with Breck. Who got the better bang for their buck in the hockey development dollar race? Hard to say as it is very expensive to play the sport. My guess however is that not many Hermantown kids played at Mn Made rinks in the summer months. I do not mind the private schools competing in A level, it raises the expectations for teams like Hermantown and Warroad.

Hermantown should be proud and I bet 99% of their training was from volunteer coaches with the parents paying the cost of the icetime only. Truly a community effort, something that class A IMO was intended for.

AA hockey is a different matter, I believe it should be the best against the best no matter what.

But to take the best, put them on a private school team just so they can win a tournament? Not right.

[StayAtHomeD]

I personally could give a Bodyshot's butt about the argument of whether or not a team like Breck or STA moves up to Class AA. Or if it's unfair for our Section 4AA to be ruled by H-M.. By rules, their enrollment falls within scope of which level they have chosen to play at, and just because Roseau, H-M and East opt to play up, doesn't mean anyone else has to.

Private schools are a business. For every Hill-Murray, there is a St. Bernard's, which has declared after 100+ years of providing an education, that it is closing. For every STA, there is a Mounds Park Academy/St. Paul Academy co-op. It's a private business, and if they choose to recruit to keep enrollment up for ALL extra-curricular activities, then that's what they have to do. Maybe on a job resume, it's looks better that you attended Cretin versus Highland Park..

Maybe there are more players like Mark Alt, who moreso went to CDH to be a QB, but just happened to be a very good hockey player. We can't assume all these players went to a private school just for hockey. Tom Quinlan was a H-M grad that was a solid hockey player, but plays in the MLB.

Does STA or Breck care what we think? Are they in business to please us? If trying to win a Class A state championship is more important to them, then let them do what they want. Maybe they are realistic and KNOW they can't compete with Class AA schools when it comes to sections, as to why they choose to stay in Class A. After all, they have lost twice to Mahtomedi to get to state.

You know, Holy Angels and Benilde didn't take much heat this year, because as it turned out, were nothing more than 4 seeds in sections (I think).. They were good squads. But, if they won the sections like H-M, everyone would be complaining about the unfair advantage.

Although I agree that a private school is more about the morality and education , and sports/extra curricular activiites should be secondary, to make a blanket statement that all private schools should be in Class AA is wrong. And to state that the elite private schools should be in Class AA is borderline discriminatory for the MSHSL to require.

We all need to stop bitching about the publics versus privates, and just continue to hate the privates. This stuff isn't going to change.

With that said, Randy Shaver from KARE 11, and the leader and originator of HS sports weekly coverage was on 93X Monday morn, and he stated it was time for Breck to think about a move to Class AA.. It will take a guy like Shaver to possibly shake some things up, not us.

I understand what you're saying but I just can't accept that kids who were developed against the best AA talent in the state-when they are assembled together on a small private school team they should be A. I don't know if I'll ever accept that.

How can New Ulm ever compete with that? How is that fair and what is Class A intended for then? I guess I would much rather see us go back to a one tier system because this one IS NOT what it was intended to be.

I remember the arguments and the assurances and everything I was afraid of has come to pass.

[mulefarm]

How about all teams must stay a their level? No optting up. What would the tournaments then look like?

[Goldfishdude]

I know what you're saying, StayatHome. I just think we, as a society, get too wound up about this.. Class A is intended for enrollment size. Class A is intended to give 8 more teams a shot at a state championship.

If Breck only has a 600 (or whatever it is) enrollment, is ANYONE suggesting that they will have a Blake Wheeler or a Tyson Fulton every year?

JUST HYPOTHETICAL and not personally directed at you, stayathome, because I am not trying to argue with you... it's just general thoughts.. but.

The private schools DON'T have the luxury of providing a feeder system. What are they supposed to do? What are WE supposed to do?? Should we just tell all our good kids to stay at our public schools, and send them the crappy ones, so that we can justify that they stay Class A??

[karl(east)]

I understand what you're saying but I just can't accept that kids who were developed against the best AA talent in the state-when they are assembled together on a small private school team they should be A. I don't know if I'll ever accept that.

How can New Ulm ever compete with that? How is that fair and what is Class A intended for then? I guess I would much rather see us go back to a one tier system because this one IS NOT what it was intended to be.

I remember the arguments and the assurances and everything I was afraid of has come to pass.

I'm not sure how you'd enforce any rule based on where teams draw talent from. How on earth would that work?

Sure, New Ulm can't compete with Breck, but they can't compete with Warroad either. If we threw the privates out of A, Warroad would probably win the thing over 50% of the time. And then people would order them to opt up, and then maybe Hermantown or Mahtomedi would take their place, and then...well, I trust you can see the slippery slope we'd be heading down.

I suppose the system isn't really 'fair', but what on earth constitutes fairness? Isn't it also unfair to New Ulm that Roseau's youth program is so much better? Is it unfair to the Rochester schools that they have to share a youth program with each other, or that White Bear Lake loses a bunch of kids to Hill, when outstate programs don't have to deal with that? What about open enrollment...several programs get huge benefits from that. Should we have a northern state tourney, three public metro classes, two private tourneys (those who focus on hockey and those who don't), and an outstate tourney, all so that each of them are as fair as possible?

Bottom line, it isn't fair. And that doesn't bother me all that much.

I'm too young to know what the discussion was when they went from 1 tournament to 2. I'm open to the idea of going back to one class; like you, I think the purpose of a 2-class system is a bit hazy right now. But what we've got isn't all that bad. We've got two highly competitive tourneys, and though the privates are (to my displeasure, as a public school grad and fan) doing quite well in A, it's not as if they can't be beat. I sure didn't feel I was looking at a 'broken system' at the X this past weekend.

[Goldfishdude]

Karl, you touched on a couple things...

Again, the MSHSL had guidelines which distinguish what is classified as Class A and AA for hockey.

We can be angry about it, or accept it and live with it. The examples of New Ulm versus Roseau youth program is great.

The other aspect of it is that MAYBE, just MAYBE, head coaches at a public school are not as liked/respected as the private school. MAYBE, little Jimmy wants to be taught life's lessons from Bill Lechner, than before WBL's Tim Sager.

Maybe, just maybe, it takes a guy like Phil Housley to do everything in his power to KEEP his players in Stillwater. Start recognizing the first-year bantams, get involved with their lives, and try to convince the families to stay at the public school...

But there are also those parents that believe FAITH is more important than anything, and if Breck offers what is more important to the family, and they pay $10K to go there, but only 600-800 kids go there, we just can't force them to play AA hockey, because they're too good and it's unfair..

[seek & destroy]

Which regular season schedule represents a tougher schedule?

Breck's: They played the following schools 2 times -
Blake, Minnehaha Academy, Providence, St. Paul Academy, St. Paul Como, St. Paul Johnson, St. Paul Saints, Mahtomedi

and these 1 time - Lakeville South, Orono, Rochester Lourdes, Stillwater, Totino Grace, Redwing, St. Cloud & St. Thomas and Shattuck (both losses)

-OR -

Tonka's schedule: They played the following schools 2 times -
Edina (3 times - 1 loss), Holy Angels, Wayzata, Hopkins, St. Thomas Academy, Robbinsdale/Armstrong

and these 1 time - Eden Prairie, Blaine, Moorhead, Blake, Duluth E, Woodbury, Duluth Marshall, Park Cottage Grove, Stillwater, Buffalo, Hibbing, Virginia

When you compare the two schedules and then compare the records, there is no question that Breck being the "best team in the State" should not even be brought up. A look at their section opponents to get to State and it also heavily weighs in favor of Tonka.

As it ends up, Edina is wearing the crown of State Champions and although they had more losses, their schedule was as tough or tougher than Minnetonka's.

Breck is a good team this year but not even close to being the best. Whether they stay in A or move to AA doesn't ultimately matter unless someone wants to try to make the claim that they are the "best team in the State". Then they need to play a regular and post season schedule that rivals the AA teams. They didn't this year.

[StayAtHomeD]

To Karl and Goldfishdude, I appreciate your comments.

Goldfishdude-what you said about 8 more teams advancing and having a chance for a title is 100% right on, good point.

You're also correct in that they cannot control who the players are that are coming to their school. I think Breck is committed to academics first over all other considerations. Regardless, they are right in the middle of Class AA hockey heaven where the best players in the country are developed. Unfair advantage? IMO yes.

Karl, good point about New Ulm compared to Warroad and Hermantown. My rebuttal is that I believe that the great programs are a result of a community effort which I believe better fits the spirit of the Class A tournament.

I think people in Edina, Wayzata, Plymouth paying out $20,000 per year in personal trainers and elite hockey facilities does not really fit the spirit I believed the change in the tournament intended.

Only MHO guys.