Next tournament up is the Stars and Stripes. Predictions?

[muckandgrind]

How is this so? What birthday gives a kid in Minnesota a 3 year entitlement to Pee Wee hockey?

A kid born in July or August can play 3 years at the PeeWee level.

I believe this still depends upon the player's association. Not all July/August birthday kids are automatically allowed to play up to PeeWees in their final year of Squirt eligibility. Some associations make it available based on whether "space is available" at the PeeWee level (and assuming they don't need numbers at the Squirt level) and I think many use evaluations to determine who can and who can't.

I've never heard of an association refusing to allow a kid to play at the "grade appropriate" level.

[MinnGirlsHockey]

A kid born in July or August can play 3 years at the PeeWee level.

I believe this still depends upon the player's association. Not all July/August birthday kids are automatically allowed to play up to PeeWees in their final year of Squirt eligibility. Some associations make it available based on whether "space is available" at the PeeWee level (and assuming they don't need numbers at the Squirt level) and I think many use evaluations to determine who can and who can't.

I've never heard of an association refusing to allow a kid to play at the "grade appropriate" level.

I have - in a nearby association - when numbers were needed at the lower level. This probably only becomes an issue in smaller assocations, though.

[WhosPuckIsItAnyways?]

Can't see why anyone would push their squirt up to play against pee wee kids up to 26 months older than them anyways ... nice introduction to contact hockey

[WhosPuckIsItAnyways?]

I've never heard of an association refusing to allow a kid to play at the "grade appropriate" level.

What if "grade appropriate" means playing down a level? Do associations allow that? First year Bantam in grade 7 being allowed to play peewee, for example ...

[muckandgrind]

I've never heard of an association refusing to allow a kid to play at the "grade appropriate" level.

What if "grade appropriate" means playing down a level? Do associations allow that? First year Bantam in grade 7 being allowed to play peewee, for example ...

That's quite different. Somebody who is older than the age cutoff can never play down, no exceptions. However, in most associations, a player will generally be allowed to play up. I've known a few kids to do that....I've also known a few kids who chose not to move up.

Where it really gets interesting is at the Bantam level. If they are a July/August b-day, that means they are still Bantam-eligible during their sophmore year of high school....what should the player do then?

[WhosPuckIsItAnyways?]

Where it really gets interesting is at the Bantam level. If they are a July/August b-day, that means they are still Bantam-eligible during their sophmore year of high school....what should the player do then?

Wether they are in grade 8, 9 or 10 during their 2nd year Bantam, they should do whatever is best for them, and MH should facilitate appropriate options for them. The real dilemma is what to do with kids in grade 9 who have no Bantam eligibilty left ...

[muckandgrind]

Where it really gets interesting is at the Bantam level. If they are a July/August b-day, that means they are still Bantam-eligible during their sophmore year of high school....what should the player do then?

Wether they are in grade 8, 9 or 10 during their 2nd year Bantam, they should do whatever is best for them, and MH should facilitate appropriate options for them. The real dilemma is what to do with kids in grade 9 who have no Bantam eligibilty left ...

No dilemma there...if a player is in 9th grade with no Bantam-eligibilty...that means they should be trying out for the U-16 or high school team.

[WhosPuckIsItAnyways?]

No dilemma there...if a player is in 9th grade with no Bantam-eligibilty...that means they should be trying out for the U-16 or high school team.

Well that is a dilema ... you have to make those teams and not all grade 9 kids have those skills. So what happens to children in grade 9 who have no place to play?

[WhosPuckIsItAnyways?]

Somebody who is older than the age cutoff can never play down, no exceptions.

Correct. Which makes it critical that we get the cutoff right. See other thread (Age Change in Minnesota Hockey)

[muckandgrind]

No dilemma there...if a player is in 9th grade with no Bantam-eligibilty...that means they should be trying out for the U-16 or high school team.

Well that is a dilema ... you have to make those teams and not all grade 9 kids have those skills. So what happens to children in grade 9 who have no place to play?

Like I said before.....U-16 Boys, Junior Varsity, Junior Gold or a rec league....there are still options for players not good enough to play at the varsity level.

[observer]

And, you're talking about a really small number of kids. People like to fuss but would be hard pressed to name more than one or two players in this particular position.

[frederick61]

The 3-year situation has been discussed, but I would like to add two things to the discussion.

First the July/August kids that fall into this category often do well in their second and third years (if they play the third year) and do well as bantams/high school/other. I believe this is a result of playing with older kids (teammates) at the peewee level. Most kids that do this have some talent in their first year that allow them some success and the desire to keep up with their older teammates drives them to do better. By the time they are in the second and third years, they are the leaders because the older kids have moved on. I believe this does not work as well at the bantam level because age and other factors kick in.

Second, Minnesota kids have to consider their hockey futures coming out of peewees. This is not driven by Minnesota Hockey, but by Minnesota State High School rules governing transfers for purposes of playing sports. Applications for kids to transfer have to be submitted by Jan of their 8th grade season and approved by both schools involved by Feb. The result is some private schools are recruiting the peewee kids (something I think is great if the kid looks at it a great educational opportunity).

[Magnaesq]

Tournament Champions

2002 Manitoba 2K2 Warriors
2001 Anaheim Wildcats
2000 Minnesota Machine
1999 Minnesota Machine
1998 Selkirk JR Steelers (Manitoba)
1997 Team Pepsi (Manitoba)
1996 Legacy

From what I heard and saw there were some very good games in all catergories. I think for the most part, the best team won in all divisions.

Does anyone know why the '98 Wildcats forfeited the Consolation game?

[WhosPuckIsItAnyways?]

the July/August kids that fall into this category often do well in their second and third years (if they play the third year) and do well as bantams/high school/other. I believe this is a result of playing with older kids (teammates) at the peewee level.

It's actually the opposite of that. It's due to playing with the younger kids all the way up. Just like January & February kids are advantaged in the Canadian/USA Tier 1 system, July & August kids are advantaged under the current Minnesota cutoff.

[frederick61]

the July/August kids that fall into this category often do well in their second and third years (if they play the third year) and do well as bantams/high school/other. I believe this is a result of playing with older kids (teammates) at the peewee level.

It's actually the opposite of that. It's due to playing with the younger kids all the way up. Just like January & February kids are advantaged in the Canadian/USA Tier 1 system, July & August kids are advantaged under the current Minnesota cutoff.

The thought you hold is that the July/August kid is always playing younger kids. This is not true. As a first year peewee, they are the youngest kids and are playing kids two years older. As a second year peewee, they play kids older and younger. As a third year peewee, they play younger kids.

Oddly enough, at the Squirt and Bantam level, this third year has less of an impact. Squirt kids haven’t reached that maturity level where it matters. An older squirt kid can still dominate a team or a game, but experience says that they still may not be there as a peewee. Peewee level will be a proving ground. I can point to three or four July/August first year peewees from last year that will be interesting watch this year to see how they have changed over the past year and will they make the transition to being a dominant player.

At the Bantam level, the July/August kids disperse in all directions because of opportunity. Just look at the advanced 15 players this year. A number of the kids with July/August dates ended up in the advanced 15 tryout. A glance at where they played last year at the bantam age shows they played in all sorts of places not just bantams.

My point is that on of the strengths of Minnesota hockey is that the July/August and the Sept/Dec kids all have a chance to learn from older teammates as a first year peewee. The older teammates carry the team and the younger players learn. In their second (or third) year, they become the older teammates. In hockey programs where all the players change level every year, the older kids dominate the younger kids each year and the younger kids (especially as peewees) become discouraged.

[CRMiteHockey]

2000 Level

From this morning.

Snipers 8 Attack 6

[WhosPuckIsItAnyways?]

The thought you hold is that the July/August kid is always playing younger kids. This is not true. As a first year peewee, they are the youngest kids and are playing kids two years older. As a second year peewee, they play kids older and younger. As a third year peewee, they play younger kids.

It is true. They are NEVER the youngest. There is no mythical 3 years of peewee. The play two years sqirt and then 2 years peewee like everybody else.

In their first year peewee, they are a scant days younger than some 2nd year peewee's and older (by as much as a year) than all the other first year peewees.

In their second year peewees they are always the oldest kids on the ice.

They never are forced into the roll of being the youngest players - always middle to oldest - playing on the better teams, better lines and in the better situations compared to kids forced into being the youngest (April/May/June).

Your argument has no legs.

[muckandgrind]

The thought you hold is that the July/August kid is always playing younger kids. This is not true. As a first year peewee, they are the youngest kids and are playing kids two years older. As a second year peewee, they play kids older and younger. As a third year peewee, they play younger kids.

It is true. They are NEVER the youngest. There is no mythical 3 years of peewee. The play two years sqirt and then 2 years peewee like everybody else.

In their first year peewee, they are a scant days younger than some 2nd year peewee's and older (by as much as a year) than all the other first year peewees.

In their second year peewees they are always the oldest kids on the ice.

They never are forced into the roll of being the youngest players - always middle to oldest - playing on the better teams, better lines and in the better situations compared to kids forced into being the youngest (April/May/June).

Your argument has no legs.

Many associations allow the July/August player to play up a year to stay with their grade in school...so you can see a scenario like this:

July/August B-Day Player:

3 years Mites
2 years Squirts
3 years PeeWees
1 year Bantam
HS

or

4 years Mites
1 year Squirts
3 years PeeWees
2 years Bantam
HS

[WhosPuckIsItAnyways?]

The thought you hold is that the July/August kid is always playing younger kids. This is not true. As a first year peewee, they are the youngest kids and are playing kids two years older. As a second year peewee, they play kids older and younger. As a third year peewee, they play younger kids.

It is true. They are NEVER the youngest. There is no mythical 3 years of peewee. The play two years sqirt and then 2 years peewee like everybody else.

In their first year peewee, they are a scant days younger than some 2nd year peewee's and older (by as much as a year) than all the other first year peewees.

In their second year peewees they are always the oldest kids on the ice.

They never are forced into the roll of being the youngest players - always middle to oldest - playing on the better teams, better lines and in the better situations compared to kids forced into being the youngest (April/May/June).

Your argument has no legs.

Many associations allow the July/August player to play up a year to stay with their grade in school...so you can see a scenario like this:

July/August B-Day Player:

3 years Mites
2 years Squirts
3 years PeeWees
1 year Bantam
HS

or

4 years Mites
1 year Squirts
3 years PeeWees
2 years Bantam
HS

Correct. So the July/August birthday kid has the option to play with kids 23 or 24 months older. They are not forced into it like the other kids. Their other (and more popular option) is to be the oldest players on the Squirt A team.

There is NEVER a situation where a July/August born player is forced to be the youngest on a squad. He/she always has the option to be the oldest and worst case scenario, middle of the pack.

I am not convinced the option should be there at all, but if it is, then it should include all summer birthdays, June-August. Why would some get the benefit while others in the same situation (almost identical numbers June/July) do not get those options.

[WhosPuckIsItAnyways?]

... and hence, the REASON the JUuly/August born players thrive in Minnesota is because they are allowed to be the oldest kids on the ice when it suits them.

Has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with being the youngest player on the ice AT ANY TIME. There is no benefit to that whatsoever.