WBL investigation

[ilbok]

Sachi & friends eat goldfish and Orange roughy for breakfast.

With still no sign of the promised verifiable facts, this looks like Gossip, Girls.

Ilbok..... here's some verifiable facts for you.

For the past three years, WBL's biggest conference rivals for the league title are Woodbury and Cretin-Derham Hall.

Sager-coached teams are 4-8 .333 winning percentage, and are 0-6 in the final week of the season versus those two teams, a time of the year your team should be improving. What's the latest record vs H-M?? 0-13 or something?? Combine those three teams and his record is 4-21 or a .190 winning percentage. To me, these numbers are alarming.

This past season saw WBL lose to Forest Lake and Mounds View for the first time in years.

He has issues winning the big games.

What happened to the BodyShots guarantee?

Looks as good as a Circuit City or CompUSA service plan at this point!

I can guarantee you, that if Sager gets fired, it won't be because of his coaching win/loss record.

[BodyShots]

Sachi & friends eat goldfish and Orange roughy for breakfast.

With still no sign of the promised verifiable facts, this looks like Gossip, Girls.

Ilbok..... here's some verifiable facts for you.

For the past three years, WBL's biggest conference rivals for the league title are Woodbury and Cretin-Derham Hall.

Sager-coached teams are 4-8 .333 winning percentage, and are 0-6 in the final week of the season versus those two teams, a time of the year your team should be improving. What's the latest record vs H-M?? 0-13 or something?? Combine those three teams and his record is 4-21 or a .190 winning percentage. To me, these numbers are alarming.

This past season saw WBL lose to Forest Lake and Mounds View for the first time in years.

He has issues winning the big games.

What happened to the BodyShots guarantee?

Looks as good as a Circuit City or CompUSA service plan at this point!

I can guarantee you, that if Sager gets fired, it won't be because of his coaching win/loss record.

It's a fact that the Twins lost last night, and GFD's statistics are correct. But it doesn't diminish my guarantee that if Sager is fired, it won't be because of his win/loss record.

[WBLHockeyBishop]

Sachi & friends eat goldfish and Orange roughy for breakfast.

With still no sign of the promised verifiable facts, this looks like Gossip, Girls.

Ilbok..... here's some verifiable facts for you.

For the past three years, WBL's biggest conference rivals for the league title are Woodbury and Cretin-Derham Hall.

Sager-coached teams are 4-8 .333 winning percentage, and are 0-6 in the final week of the season versus those two teams, a time of the year your team should be improving. What's the latest record vs H-M?? 0-13 or something?? Combine those three teams and his record is 4-21 or a .190 winning percentage. To me, these numbers are alarming.

This past season saw WBL lose to Forest Lake and Mounds View for the first time in years.

He has issues winning the big games.

But it was stated earlier in this discussion that it wasn't about wins and losses...

[StoppatchFairplayHelmets0]

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

See the above thread from a different parent/player group. Page 3 & 4 are pretty good.

WBL ups and Downs...authored by Blanco Oso

[Goldfishdude]

Folks... I brought up the record, because people were calling this a witch hunt, because of personal vendaettas, and ilbok was the one who stated he was being ousted because of not beating H-M... I am just stating that his W-L record against our top competition merits a change, let alone the other allegations.

But, NO..... as far as I know, his won-loss record is not part of the issue.

So, let's just wait this out. There is no official word, one way or another. However, there is certainly no word coming from the administration disputing the rumors. The number one subject at the campus of juniors and seniors is Sager, and there is no one in authority, as of yet, disputing the rumors.

[ilbok]

I am all for bashing Sager, but pick truthful criteria ...

like the way he dresses or styles his hair ...

cherry picking stats over arbitrary and unequal time periods does not cut it.

Take for instance the easiest stats to find: WBL record versus Hill.

You will be hard pressed to blame Sager ...

From 1971-1980, both WBL and White Bear Mariner failed to win a single game against Hill;

From 1981-1990, WBL had a .346 record versus Hill;

From 1991-2000, WBL had a .333 record versus Hill;

Historically, White Bear Lake has managed to win less than a third of its games versus Hill;

No White Bear coach, including Sager, has taken his team to State more than 2 or 3 times;

and none has won a first round game at State.

Blame Sager all you want, say he doesn't know hockey or lacks class....

With all due respect,

in my humble opinion,

Sager is right where he belongs.

[StoppatchFairplayHelmets0]

This is probably all the Coach will go through after a good ash chewing from the board.
http://www.entertonement.com/clips/nzmb ... ip-Diller-
.

[karl(east)]

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

See the above thread from a different parent/player group. Page 3 & 4 are pretty good.

WBL ups and Downs...authored by Blanco Oso

Ah yes, I remember this one.

Just to clarify my stance a bit--I'm of the general opinion that high school coaches should not be dismissed based strictly on their records. What I was trying to do there was prove WBL's problems over the years go a bit deeper than Tim Sager.

Those comments in no way relate to the current investigation.

[StoppatchFairplayHelmets0]

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

See the above thread from a different parent/player group. Page 3 & 4 are pretty good.

WBL ups and Downs...authored by Blanco Oso

Ah yes, I remember this one.

Just to clarify my stance a bit--I'm of the general opinion that high school coaches should not be dismissed based strictly on their records. What I was trying to do there was prove WBL's problems over the years go a bit deeper than Tim Sager.

Those comments in no way relate to the current investigation.

I don't totally agree.
While the WBL feeder program may be slipping a bit lately and Sag's is not getting the talent he used to get, I think you can oust a guy if he has not held the players and himself and the program to the high standard we expect from WBL High School Hockey.

[karl(east)]

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic. ... sc&start=0

See the above thread from a different parent/player group. Page 3 & 4 are pretty good.

WBL ups and Downs...authored by Blanco Oso

Ah yes, I remember this one.

Just to clarify my stance a bit--I'm of the general opinion that high school coaches should not be dismissed based strictly on their records. What I was trying to do there was prove WBL's problems over the years go a bit deeper than Tim Sager.

Those comments in no way relate to the current investigation.

I don't totally agree.
While the WBL feeder program may be slipping a bit lately and Sag's is not getting the talent he used to get, I think you can oust a guy if he has not held the players and himself and the program to the high standard we expect from WBL High School Hockey.

That's why I said strictly on record. There's a difference between "getting a bad record" and "not holding the players and himself and the program to a high standard."

Of course, the response to this is that where there's smoke, there's a fire. I'd just suggest you make very sure you're putting out the right fire, and be aware that there might be other ones (which you seem to be, clearly).

The point of the post on the other thread was that the record doesn't suggest Sager is any worse than his predecessors--and it's therefore hard to conclude he's also the root problem at WBL. He may not be the solution, but that alone shouldn't condemn him. You'd have to dig a little deeper to prove a causation. That's what this investigation is trying to do, of course...we'll see what happens.

[PoniesDad45]

What, only 3 pages so far? How disappointing

[Northsider]

I'm thoroughly enjoying reading this thread.

I smell another baker's dozen already startin to cook.

[goldy313]

To the people in charge of this.....you're not the first and won't be the last to do this to a coach. It happened in Duluth it happend in Austin. It happened in Waseca it happened at John Marshall you name the town or the school, it happens almost everywhere. After the witch hunt ends these same truths always seem to come up...

*The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there.
*your kids really aren't as good as you think they are
*the other teams (gasp) may be better than your team this time around
*having a teacher as a coach is nearly always better than not
*teens are by definition teens and tough to get a hold of at this age
*it's far easier to blame the coach than realize your (not your kids) dreams aren't coming true
*it's easier to blame adults for kids indiscretions than the kids
*you're making yourself and your community look bad, no matter the outcome

[mulefarm]

To the people in charge of this.....you're not the first and won't be the last to do this to a coach. It happened in Duluth it happend in Austin. It happened in Waseca it happened at John Marshall you name the town or the school, it happens almost everywhere. After the witch hunt ends these same truths always seem to come up...

*The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there.
*your kids really aren't as good as you think they are
*the other teams (gasp) may be better than your team this time around
*having a teacher as a coach is nearly always better than not
*teens are by definition teens and tough to get a hold of at this age
*it's far easier to blame the coach than realize your (not your kids) dreams aren't coming true
*it's easier to blame adults for kids indiscretions than the kids
*you're making yourself and your community look bad, no matter the outcome

Right On!!!!!

[muckandgrind]

To the people in charge of this.....you're not the first and won't be the last to do this to a coach. It happened in Duluth it happend in Austin. It happened in Waseca it happened at John Marshall you name the town or the school, it happens almost everywhere. After the witch hunt ends these same truths always seem to come up...

*The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there.
*your kids really aren't as good as you think they are
*the other teams (gasp) may be better than your team this time around
*having a teacher as a coach is nearly always better than not
*teens are by definition teens and tough to get a hold of at this age
*it's far easier to blame the coach than realize your (not your kids) dreams aren't coming true
*it's easier to blame adults for kids indiscretions than the kids
*you're making yourself and your community look bad, no matter the outcome

Generalize much???

[Sykes]

I am all for bashing Sager, but pick truthful criteria ...

like the way he dresses or styles his hair ...

cherry picking stats over arbitrary and unequal time periods does not cut it.

Take for instance the easiest stats to find: WBL record versus Hill.

You will be hard pressed to blame Sager ...

From 1971-1980, both WBL and White Bear Mariner failed to win a single game against Hill;

From 1981-1990, WBL had a .346 record versus Hill;

From 1991-2000, WBL had a .333 record versus Hill;

Historically, White Bear Lake has managed to win less than a third of its games versus Hill;

No White Bear coach, including Sager, has taken his team to State more than 2 or 3 times;

and none has won a first round game at State.

Blame Sager all you want, say he doesn't know hockey or lacks class....

With all due respect,

in my humble opinion,

Sager is right where he belongs.

I 100% agree that you should not judge WBL and Sager against wins/losses vs. Hill...........

So let's look against Woodbury.

First 37 games WBL 37-0
Last 8 games 2-6, with four straight losses.
Anyone care to add to this........

[PoniesDad45]

What's the latest WBL folks? We need the dirt here.

[MNHockeyFan]

So let's look against Woodbury.

First 37 games WBL 37-0
Last 8 games 2-6, with four straight losses.
Anyone care to add to this........

Without knowing anything about the qualifications of the WBL coach, I'll take a wild stab at it:

Woodbury is a growing and relatively prosperous suburb, with lots of younger parents having kids. Their youth program is still growing, and their talent pool of good players is expanding.

WBL's program is more established, but may have already peaked?

Again, don't know anything about their coach, but it may not be entirely his fault. Many other once-proud programs are in a similar situation...

[old goalie85]

What is up with our friends to the south? Anyone?

[trippedovertheblueline]

What is up with our friends to the south? Anyone?

Lets not be placing Forest Lake as one of us yet. Were still adapting to Maple Grove, Woodbury, Prior Lake, and Centennial as one of our own. F.Lake is still up nort

[old goalie85]

Tripped---Don't get me wrong, we like being waaaay up here. [ Off the busline, but, we do have a new superwalmart] No news must be good news for existing staff.

[karl(east)]

I received confirmation today that Tim Sager will return as the White Bear Lake head coach this year.

There was an investigation, and a good bit of confusion around it, but the district has ultimately decided to retain him. As the investigation is protected by the data privacy act, I am going to cut off the discussion now.

Thank you to everyone who kept me up to date on the situation so as to prevent false rumors. No matter what you think of Tim Sager, loyalty to the truth has to take priority. Many of you, including many of Mr. Sager's detractors, understood that wonderfully. I commend you all for your restraint and reasonable discussion of the events of this hectic week.