Predictions for Advanced 16 and 17 national team.

[12345]

Shakey,

It happens sometimes (a lot in my opinion) that Minnesota doesn't get it right. I don't know about Lucia, but I know it's happened in the past... When USA hockey finds out that a kid was missed, and they think the kid is good enough to be there, they extend the invitation anyways and bypass Minnesota all together. This can't make Minnesota look too good...especially if Lucia is good enough to make the team that goes overseas.

"Who" is USA Hockey and what do "they" know about Lucia that "Minnesota" doesn't? Somebody looks bad here but it's not necessarily the Minnesota Select 17 evaluators. Does something smell funny?

I don't want to even speculate about Lucia... I have no idea what kind of a player he is... what I do know is that, if he is a top hockey player for his age level, and he is on scouting lists across the country, then YES...I do think they know who he is. Now... again... I have no idea what kind of a player he is - Just sharing what has happened in the past. As far as Don goes... probably... the politics will never go away... Just like the real world... it helps to have connections.

[shakey]

Shakey,

It happens sometimes (a lot in my opinion) that Minnesota doesn't get it right. I don't know about Lucia, but I know it's happened in the past... When USA hockey finds out that a kid was missed, and they think the kid is good enough to be there, they extend the invitation anyways and bypass Minnesota all together. This can't make Minnesota look too good...especially if Lucia is good enough to make the team that goes overseas.

"Who" is USA Hockey and what do "they" know about Lucia that "Minnesota" doesn't? Somebody looks bad here but it's not necessarily the Minnesota Select 17 evaluators. Does something smell funny?

I don't want to even speculate about Lucia... I have no idea what kind of a player he is... what I do know is that, if he is a top hockey player for his age level, and he is on scouting lists across the country, then YES...I do think they know who he is. Now... again... I have no idea what kind of a player he is - Just sharing what has happened in the past. As far as Don goes... probably... the politics will never go away... Just like the real world... it helps to have connections.

He is a top end player that can probably play with most anyone in his age group. But, he played poorly in the Selects and did not even participate in 54s. So cut the BS, abolish the regional Advanced selection camps and let USAH pick their players. Stop the charade and the disrespect of the players and those responsible for local selection.

[shakey]

You don't think "THE DON" had anything to do with that, do you?

Doubt it. He's a professional. His reputation is worth more than that.

[demongoed]

Shakey-
They will never do away with the charade of the tryouts. They will continue to give players and parents inexperienced with the Select program the impression that the field is wide open and opportunities abound. Why? Very simple. That's the only way they'll get families to fork over the tryout fee. I don't care that they hold tryouts. It bothers me, though, that they are not honest about the selection process and the fact that, in reality, there are only a handful of spot open before anyone even pulls on a tryout jersey.

[my2cents]

Keep in mind, that if you go through the tryout process, and don't make the final cut, you still participate in a quality tryout and a high quality camp.

If USA hockey were simply to select without a tryout process, then the selected players families would be burdoned with a big expense which may result in even more of the best players opting out.

[Factsmatter1]

Keep in mind, that if you go through the tryout process, and don't make the final cut, you still participate in a quality tryout and a high quality camp.

If USA hockey were simply to select without a tryout process, then the selected players families would be burdoned with a big expense which may result in even more of the best players opting out.

You have got to be kidding on this post...

Families have more than enough tryouts and events to choose from without someone else finding a poorly run tryout to waste the families hard earned money never mind USA hockey doing so. So I really don't understand the logic on the first point.

If the first point wasn't enough the second point is absurd in that it seems to suggest that the kids who don't get picked should be thrilled about subsiding those that do. If the tryout selection process for the advanced programs were perfect or for that matter even pretty good then the kids not selected just have to suck it up and work harder to improve. However, this is not the current reality of the advanced selection process. The outcome is pretty poor with 1-2 obvious selections and then a number of political selections based on several entrenched constituencies including "geographic parity" (a particular nasty form of Minnesota community hockey politics). Talk to anyone who watched any of the 17's during the year and during the advanced tryouts and they will tell you the 8 forwards going to national camp arent' the best 8 in Minnesota by a long shot. Maybe 1-2... The poor outcome suggests a problematic system. Most folks have just come to expect this and frankly unless you changed the system you can't change the outcome. It's really not a big deal thought becasue if you talk to college coaches and recruiters and NHL scouts, tHey will tell you that the advanced program is marginally useful but it is only one of many programs. Most will acknowledge that politics play a big part in Minnesota and other programs. If there is a scale of credibility of 1 to 5 with 5 being the least credible Minnesota advanced is probably a 4.5. More credible indicators of a kids true potential are his performance during the season; 1.5-2.0 (facts which are relative to strength of schedule), USHL draft selection: 1.-1.5 (accountability of the coaches here - paid to win) and college interest: 1 (form their own opinions - paid to win).

As I stated before I thought that this year the 16 selection was an average "system" job and the 17 selection was a poor job and in particular the forwards. I think what exacerbated the systemic political problem this year is that the talent difference between the #1 and #12 forwards was largely unnoticeable. And kids showing up who didn't complete tryouts or looked bad in tryouts are just more symptoms of the systemic weakness.


Just my opinion... go easy kool-aid drinkers...

[Doglover]

Very well said Facts. Lots of great players never participate in Advanced Camps and the USHL and college coaches still find them. Hope the MN players represent MN well in NY in spite of the questionable tryout process. It's a great opportunity for them to shine on a national stage.

[my2cents]

If a family/player is happy to tryout and pay the fee - good for them. Yes, many pay and few make it and those that don't can still have a positive experience. Nothing absurd about that. To think that any kid that didn't make it is crying in his cereal and mom and dad are furious with USA hockey about paying tryout fees is "absurd".

That is, unless you are Factsmatter who is obviously the worlds greatest judge of Minnesota youth hockey talent while the hired hands are just shills.

[Factsmatter1]

If a family/player is happy to tryout and pay the fee - good for them. Yes, many pay and few make it and those that don't can still have a positive experience. Nothing absurd about that. To think that any kid that didn't make it is crying in his cereal and mom and dad are furious with USA hockey about paying tryout fees is "absurd".

That is, unless you are Factsmatter who is obviously the worlds greatest judge of Minnesota youth hockey talent while the hired hands are just shills.

there's the kool-aid....

[bafata88]

The Minnesota Hockey "system" caters to the top 25 or 30 kids for any given birth year [boys and girls]; the kids who are making the Final 54 and going to Nationals are essentially the same kids who were selected for the Blades or top AAA teams dating back when they were squirts and pee wees; just look at old off season tournament rosters. These "select" players have been given more opportunity to compete at a higher level from the beginning; and it is all self perpetuating. And these kids will pretty much always get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to whether to give the player the opportunity to play or not [hence Lucia going to nationals when he did not earn it through what we all believe is the process to get there]. This is not to say that lots and lots of other kids don't have the general opportunity to move up into a higher competitive grouping; but it is very difficult to break into the top groups.

So much of this is about opportunity. All kids have the opportunity to play hockey. But a very small minority consistently get the opportunity to play hockey at a very high competitive level that lends itself to meaningful development.

[The Exiled One]

Congratulations to Roseau's Josh Erickson and Edina's Max Everson who were named to the All-Star game at the end of the Select 17 Camp.

Minnesotans NOT playing high school who made the All-Star game include Welinski, Ambroz, and Duininck.

All five of the above will be vying for the opportunity to represent the USA in the Ivan Hlinka tournament in the Czech Republic. Good luck!

[The Exiled One]

Congratulations to Roseau's Josh Erickson and Edina's Max Everson who were named to the All-Star game at the end of the Select 17 Camp.

Minnesotans NOT playing high school who made the All-Star game include Welinski, Ambroz, and Duininck.

All five of the above will be vying for the opportunity to represent the USA in the Ivan Hlinka tournament in the Czech Republic. Good luck!

Congratulations to Max Everson for making the Select 17 team that will represent the USA in the Ivan Hlinka Tournament in the Czech Republic and Slovakia starting August 10th. Seth Ambtoz was also selected for the team.

[Factsmatter1]

Congratulations to Roseau's Josh Erickson and Edina's Max Everson who were named to the All-Star game at the end of the Select 17 Camp.

Minnesotans NOT playing high school who made the All-Star game include Welinski, Ambroz, and Duininck.

All five of the above will be vying for the opportunity to represent the USA in the Ivan Hlinka tournament in the Czech Republic. Good luck!

Congratulations to Max Everson for making the Select 17 team that will represent the USA in the Ivan Hlinka Tournament in the Czech Republic and Slovakia starting August 10th. Seth Ambtoz was also selected for the team.

Congrats to Max. Very deserving.

At the risk of pissing off the MN kool-aid drinkers it is a sad day for Minnesota High School hockey. Of the 21 players picked only 1 (Max) is playing high school hockey in Minnesota or for that matter in the entire country. The rest are playing in the Canadian league, USHL, Shattuck or AAA. Not one Minnesota forward even made into the top 10 list of scorers for the tourney. So either Minnesota has stopped putting out quality hockey players relative to other systems or the best group of players didn't go to Rochester. I have stated my opinion so let's hear theories from others...

[goldy313]

Minnesota high school hockey runs afoul of the USA Hockey system, it's in fact in direct competition to it at just below USA Hockey's highest level. If you're USA Hockey it works in your favor if both kids are nearly equal to take the non MSHSL kid, then you can point to that as a reason for upcoming kids to forgo high school and go play for USA Hockey sanctioned teams.

Everyone has their own opinion on this, for good reasons too. I just follow the money, USA Hockey gets none from the MSHSL and you can even look at it as a financial loss for USA Hockey. Why promote kids who aren't from your system?

[The Exiled One]

Congratulations to Roseau's Josh Erickson and Edina's Max Everson who were named to the All-Star game at the end of the Select 17 Camp.

Minnesotans NOT playing high school who made the All-Star game include Welinski, Ambroz, and Duininck.

All five of the above will be vying for the opportunity to represent the USA in the Ivan Hlinka tournament in the Czech Republic. Good luck!

Congratulations to Max Everson for making the Select 17 team that will represent the USA in the Ivan Hlinka Tournament in the Czech Republic and Slovakia starting August 10th. Seth Ambtoz was also selected for the team.

Congrats to Max. Very deserving.

At the risk of pissing off the MN kool-aid drinkers it is a sad day for Minnesota High School hockey. Of the 21 players picked only 1 (Max) is playing high school hockey in Minnesota or for that matter in the entire country. The rest are playing in the Canadian league, USHL, Shattuck or AAA. Not one Minnesota forward even made into the top 10 list of scorers for the tourney. So either Minnesota has stopped putting out quality hockey players relative to other systems or the best group of players didn't go to Rochester. I have stated my opinion so let's hear theories from others...

Seth Ambroz was tied for 6th in scoring, or were you talking about the HS players? Also, I forgot to mention that St. Cloud native Craig Duininck also made the team.

I think it's just a down BY for Minnesota... especially when Boyd, Ambroz, Van Voorhis, and Carlson decided to play elsewhere than HS. Michaelson is sticking around HS though, and USA Hockey thought he was the best player overall at the NTDP Evaluation Camp. I think 95 will be a nice year for HS too, depending on which Minnesotans decide to take off for the NTDP the season after next. Let's see how Gross, Fasching, Sheehy, etc do at the Select 15 camp.

I agree with you on the point that usually the top 4 or 5 Minnesotans tend to get skinned of the top from any given BY, but the 92 high schoolers were represented well by Bjugstad. The 91's were represented well by Nelson and Leddy. One or two standouts from any given BY tend to stick around, but only if their HS team has a pretty tough strength of schedule.

I guess I agree with to somewhat, but one BY doesn't neccesarily make a trend.

[Murphy]

This birth year sent 5 kids to Europe last summer.....I am not sure it is fair to call it a down BY.

If you look a little closer, Minnesota Hockey only sent 1 of those 4 forwards back to Nationals this year. They sent a whole new crop of Forwards. Last year, 5 kids in top 10 scorers. This year, zero. USA Hockey showed that they didn't agree with Minnesota Hockey's choices this year. The Score board appears to support "Facts" opinions.

Minnesota Hockey showed the kids coming up that leaving HS for AAA Hockey and USHL is a better way to get the top opportunities. Ambroz, Dunnick, etc.

[Factsmatter1]

This birth year sent 5 kids to Europe last summer.....I am not sure it is fair to call it a down BY.

If you look a little closer, Minnesota Hockey only sent 1 of those 4 forwards back to Nationals this year. They sent a whole new crop of Forwards. Last year, 5 kids in top 10 scorers. This year, zero. USA Hockey showed that they didn't agree with Minnesota Hockey's choices this year. The Score board appears to support "Facts" opinions.

Minnesota Hockey showed the kids coming up that leaving HS for AAA Hockey and USHL is a better way to get the top opportunities. Ambroz, Dunnick, etc.

Murph cracks the case...

[The Exiled One]

This birth year sent 5 kids to Europe last summer.....I am not sure it is fair to call it a down BY.

If you look a little closer, Minnesota Hockey only sent 1 of those 4 forwards back to Nationals this year. They sent a whole new crop of Forwards. Last year, 5 kids in top 10 scorers. This year, zero. USA Hockey showed that they didn't agree with Minnesota Hockey's choices this year. The Score board appears to support "Facts" opinions.

Minnesota Hockey showed the kids coming up that leaving HS for AAA Hockey and USHL is a better way to get the top opportunities. Ambroz, Dunnick, etc.

Murph cracks the case...

I think I may have missed the point. It was a criticism of the Minnesota Hockey organization? I thought it was just a commentary on the general level of hockey in the state of Minnesota. My mistake. I don't know enough about the Minnesota Hockey organization to be able to comment on it.

[12345]

Minnesota high school hockey runs afoul of the USA Hockey system, it's in fact in direct competition to it at just below USA Hockey's highest level. If you're USA Hockey it works in your favor if both kids are nearly equal to take the non MSHSL kid, then you can point to that as a reason for upcoming kids to forgo high school and go play for USA Hockey sanctioned teams.

Everyone has their own opinion on this, for good reasons too. I just follow the money, USA Hockey gets none from the MSHSL and you can even look at it as a financial loss for USA Hockey. Why promote kids who aren't from your system?

Being that Minnesota is the ONLY state in the United States that is NOT part of USA hockey, maybe they should reconsider. Minnesota is slowly losing ground... With the amount of kids that we have in youth hockey compared to other states, we should overwhelmingly dominate these select teams - We don't even come close anymore.

A friend of mine (USHL coach) predicted (four years ago) this demise would start happening to Minnesota hockey in the next five years... He was so right! So it begins...He mentioned how he tries to stay away from Minnesota kids because they just are not as prepared, for the next level, as the rest of the top kids in the country.

In my opinion, Minnesota produces a lot of very good hockey players... I would agree... Just not enough GREAT hockey players, like they should when you consider the sheer number of players we have to choose from.

That's all I have to say about that...

[murray]

In my opinion, Minnesota produces a lot of very good hockey players... I would agree... Just not enough GREAT hockey players, like they should when you consider the sheer number of players we have to choose from. Quote.

How do you make the distinction between good and great?

[Gopher Blog]

Some of the same comments made on this thread about the situation (talent, etc) are the same things that had been said at times in the 90s. Some years are better than others for depth of talent. Unless you are new to the block, the predictions of doom and gloom to MN hockey are hardly new. Yet the state still keeps pumping out quality players.

[12345]

Some of the same comments made on this thread about the situation (talent, etc) are the same things that had been said at times in the 90s. Some years are better than others for depth of talent. Unless you are new to the block, the predictions of doom and gloom to MN hockey are hardly new. Yet the state still keeps pumping out quality players.

So... you don't see an influx of top Minnesota players leaving to go play for NDTP, USHL or Shattuck? Some are even starting to leave their high schools to go play in the NAHL or Tier one leagues across the country. Regardless of whether you think it's right or wrong, it IS happening and it's happening more and more every year. Many kids, who are deemed superstars in Minnesota, struggle when they start playing college hockey. You'll always have one or two per year that get lucky enough to play their freshman year AND contribute...

But... what I'm really trying to say is...

Don't ya think the "State of Hockey" should have more players who are playing in the NHL? We have something like 45,000 - 55,000 kids to choose from... Our percentage of kids should be higher than it is...

[russiawithlove]

12345 is dead on, look at the gopher hockey team now- they take a bunch of their kids from mn high schools and their team has gone in the tank after 2003.

[observer]

Under 18 Team for Czech Tourney

GOALTENDERS (2)
Steven Michalek 8/6/93 Glastonbury, CT Loomis Chaffee
Jay Williams 6/7/93 McLean, VA Neponset Valley River Rats

DEFENSEMEN (7)
Chris Bradley 5/20/93 Williamsville, N.Y. Buffalo Regals
Brian Cooper 11/1/93 Anchorage AK Fargo Force (USHL)
Craig Duininck 4/29/93 Plymouth, MI Windsor Spitfires (OHL)
Max Everson 2/22/93 Edina, MN Edina High School Varsity
Tanner Mort 4/29/93 Post Falls ID Spokane Chiefs (WHL)
Connor Murphy 3/26/93 Dublin, OH U.S. National Under-17
Colin Sullentrop 6/10/93 Plantation, FL Oshawa Generals (OHL)

FORWARDS (12)
Seth Ambroz 4/3/93 New Prague, MN Omaha Lancers (USHL)
Alex Broadhurst 3/7/93 New Lenox, IL Chicago Mission
Theo Di Pauli 2/28/93 Woodridge, IL Chicago Steel (USHL)
John Gaudreau 8/13/93 Carney’s Point, NJ Team Comcast
Cason Hohmann 1/10/93 Plymouth, MI Cedar Rapids (USHL)
Kevin Irwin 7/9/93 Hinckley, Ohio Cleveland Barons
Sean Kuraly 1/20/93 Dublin OH Columbus AAA Blue Jackets
Alex Racino 6/4/93 Merrill, WI Madison Capitals
Justin Selman 10/2/93 Saddle River NJ North Jersey Avalanche
Tanner Sorenson 2/17/93 Anchorage AK Shattuck St. Mary’s
Lukas Sutter 10/4/93 Whitefish, Mo. Sask Blades (WHL)
Vincent Trocheck 7/11/93 Birmingham, MI Saginaw Spirit (OHL)

http://www.usahockey.com/Template_Usaho ... &id=235608

[flatontheice]

Some of the same comments made on this thread about the situation (talent, etc) are the same things that had been said at times in the 90s. Some years are better than others for depth of talent. Unless you are new to the block, the predictions of doom and gloom to MN hockey are hardly new. Yet the state still keeps pumping out quality players.

So... you don't see an influx of top Minnesota players leaving to go play for NDTP, USHL or Shattuck? Some are even starting to leave their high schools to go play in the NAHL or Tier one leagues across the country. Regardless of whether you think it's right or wrong, it IS happening and it's happening more and more every year. Many kids, who are deemed superstars in Minnesota, struggle when they start playing college hockey. You'll always have one or two per year that get lucky enough to play their freshman year AND contribute...

But... what I'm really trying to say is...

Don't ya think the "State of Hockey" should have more players who are playing in the NHL? We have something like 45,000 - 55,000 kids to choose from... Our percentage of kids should be higher than it is...

I am a huge fan of Minnesota High School Hockey but the writing is on the wall. The fact is that AAA midget kids are much more prepared for the next level of competition. (8-9 month season, 60+ games, full time training, great coaching). The Elite league made an attempt to circumvent this but the league has become diluted and the quality of hockey diminishing...kind of a free for all. A jump above high school hockey but not comparable to AAA midgets. I am afraid that unless systemic changes are made to the high school model, high school hockey on a national level is falling way behind.