MCBAIN on Channel 5 News Tonight on D6

[EXPRO]

Since when do we let an associations dictate where, when, and how are kids can play hockey. D6 needs to spend more time working on developing a better program to where parents feel good about the program. D6 and Minnesota hockey, What are you thinking? What do you want to accomplish? This is parental choice, not a political choice, it’s the power of parents the to make the choice. Not for MNHOC, and D6 to have the power.

[O-townClown]

Outside activities aren't as protected as one would like. There can be quite a backlash against choosing to attend church, scouts, etc over hockey. In Tonka, a 2 year squirt A player was relegated to the pw C team because he attended a family wedding instead of a tryout date. It is dangerous for MH/associations to demand that hockey be the most important priority in life.

So should we let the individual associations police this? When Lakeville (I think) tried it was blasted.

No rules won't work. Too many rules won't either. Somewhere in between is perfect.

Everyone disagrees on where that line is.

Kids have to make a commitment to hockey at some point. One wedding, weekly religious classes, ongoing conflicts with rehearsals for the school play. Eventually a reasonable exception becomes more than that. And what is reasonable to one isn't to another.

I don't have the answer, but the problem is easy to see.

[The Huge Hook]

Since when do we let an associations dictate where, when, and how are kids can play hockey. D6 needs to spend more time working on developing a better program to where parents feel good about the program. D6 and Minnesota hockey, What are you thinking? What do you want to accomplish? This is parental choice, not a political choice, it’s the power of parents the to make the choice. Not for MNHOC, and D6 to have the power.

They are merely protecting their turf, protecting their world view, protecting their bureaucracy, protecting their jobs and protecting their power. This has nothing to do with hockey per se, it has more to do with seeing the various choice leagues as a threat to the above and doing something about it. Very self-serving!

[spin-o-rama]

Outside activities aren't as protected as one would like. There can be quite a backlash against choosing to attend church, scouts, etc over hockey. In Tonka, a 2 year squirt A player was relegated to the pw C team because he attended a family wedding instead of a tryout date. It is dangerous for MH/associations to demand that hockey be the most important priority in life.

So should we let the individual associations police this? When Lakeville (I think) tried it was blasted.

No rules won't work. Too many rules won't either. Somewhere in between is perfect.

Everyone disagrees on where that line is.

Kids have to make a commitment to hockey at some point. One wedding, weekly religious classes, ongoing conflicts with rehearsals for the school play. Eventually a reasonable exception becomes more than that. And what is reasonable to one isn't to another.

I don't have the answer, but the problem is easy to see.

It is a tough call as to where to draw the line to provide proper balance.
Although there are parallels between this and the thread topic, perhaps a new thread should be made to discuss this issue.

D6 should look to make their program offerings more attractive rather than make this power play.

[Cut Above]

Obviously I don't know where to draw the line.

In general, I'm against D6 telling us what one can and can't do.

What they claim though is they are "NOT PROTECTING THEIR TURF OR THE ASSOCIATION MODEL FROM COMPETITION" but "PROTECTING THE ASSOCIATION TEAM FROM KIDS NOT COMMITTED TO THE TEAM".

I hope I don't have to explain that but basically D6 claims to be protecting the "Team Loyalty". Not sure if I believe this completely?

Where do you draw the line? Some kids show up to games not having eaten dinner. That's not very committed either.

[mnhockey2019]

The problem with D6's argument that they are protecting the team, is that the rule states that they are protecting the association team from another hockey team, yet is silent with regards to other athletic commitments such as basketball, skiing, etc. If they really want to protect the team, and make sure the team is a top priority, they should ask for the same level of commitment from all of the kids and their families, not just the ones that are interested in additional ice time at a competing organization.

[ThePuckStopsHere]

When McMoney is pouting about the new rule to the Action 5 news crew, I wonder if he will forget to mention the times he tells his Machine players they are not allowed to miss Saturday or Sunday am practices in the winter even though they have district games that afternoon to play??

Whats good for the goose is good for the gandor, boo flipping hoo

[old goalie85]

Bernie looked good for an old Forest Lake alumni. [take them on !!!!]

[The Huge Hook]

When McMoney is pouting about the new rule to the Action 5 news crew, I wonder if he will forget to mention the times he tells his Machine players they are not allowed to miss Saturday or Sunday am practices in the winter even though they have district games that afternoon to play??

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, boo flipping hoo

So, no conflict then.......the kid can go to both. What's your point?????? And how did you jump to a debate regarding the orange??? Pumpkin envy???

[ThePuckStopsHere]

When McMoney is pouting about the new rule to the Action 5 news crew, I wonder if he will forget to mention the times he tells his Machine players they are not allowed to miss Saturday or Sunday am practices in the winter even though they have district games that afternoon to play??

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, boo flipping hoo

So, no conflict then.......the kid can go to both. What's your point?????? And how did you jump to a debate regarding the orange??? Pumpkin envy???

The point is McMoney whining about rules is hypocritical, he is the king of stupid rules and the king of holding a player or parent hostage for his own benefit, just like D6 is doing. Same tasting soup just a different color.

I could care less about the D6 rule either way, if you want to spend every waking moment of your childs youth in an ice rink watching association hockey and choice league at the same time - GO FOR IT

[The Huge Hook]

When McMoney is pouting about the new rule to the Action 5 news crew, I wonder if he will forget to mention the times he tells his Machine players they are not allowed to miss Saturday or Sunday am practices in the winter even though they have district games that afternoon to play??

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander, boo flipping hoo

So, no conflict then.......the kid can go to both. What's your point?????? And how did you jump to a debate regarding the orange??? Pumpkin envy???

I could care less about the D6 rule either way

Isn't the D6 rule what we are talking about??????? Thanks for playing!!

[greybeard58]

Has anyone attended a District 6 meeting or any District meeting? Did anyone attend the D6 meeting last night? I know D6 has a calendar on their web site stating date,place and time for their meetings.

From a few friends of mine the rule was drawn up by concerned associations and the D6 Director was asked to implement. Yes the District Director has the authority but in most circumstances if a district board is against a rule( not Mn Hockey or USA Hockey) normally the rule would not be put in place. If you have questions on procedures for District 6 their handbook is also on their web site and I believe they also list their procedures and policies.

Districts put rules in place because the associations have some problems and ask for a rule to be added, it is always easier to blame the District for the rule when in reality the associations have asked quietly for it but now can go back to their membership and say they were against it but the District placed it any way.

[The Huge Hook]

Has anyone attended a District 6 meeting or any District meeting? Did anyone attend the D6 meeting last night? I know D6 has a calendar on their web site stating date,place and time for their meetings.

From a few friends of mine the rule was drawn up by concerned associations and the D6 Director was asked to implement. Yes the District Director has the authority but in most circumstances if a district board is against a rule( not Mn Hockey or USA Hockey) normally the rule would not be put in place. If you have questions on procedures for District 6 their handbook is also on their web site and I believe they also list their procedures and policies.

Districts put rules in place because the associations have some problems and ask for a rule to be added, it is always easier to blame the District for the rule when in reality the associations have asked quietly for it but now can go back to their membership and say they were against it but the District placed it any way.

So, in essence, the associations are colluding in an effort to "wipe out" their competition. They are just using D6 to do the dirty work. Kinda like a presidential administration using the IRS to hound an unfavorable entity.

[greybeard58]

Hook,
I believe there has been a problem with the scheduling where players tried to do both and for associations to have something like this put in place. I believe that it could have been handled at the team level but if I remember right there are a lot of lawyers in D6 and to bench a player now days for missing a practice or game draws a lot of complaints.
A number of years ago on a team I coached we had a goalie make the team but was also a wrestler. He told us his schedule and for practices we would work to make sure he could do both. We let him miss his turn on the last game before Districts for a wrestling team party and on that night we were surprised to see his wrestling coach at our game and when asked about the team party his reply was what party. We sat him for the District tournament because he lied to us and he finally admitted there was no party. His parents still complained.
The IRS comparison is drastically overstated, and if you search you might find that MM never approached the District about running programs that benefited both the association and MM.

[The Huge Hook]

Beard.....I can't agree with you. I recognize that associations fear players missing D6 events for other obligations, but it is pretty obvious that this is aimed at removing, not superceeding (sp), their competition.

I live in a very large, very successful association and have never heard of any player not honoring their obligation to play/practice with their association team. Especially as an A or B at any level higher than mites.

We can all come-up with various scenarios regarding "outlier" circumstances, but when the poop hits the pavement, this is D6 protecting their turf. They are attempting to eliminate supplemental programs.

I have a feeling this is about the mites where many kids play assn. as well as choice. If so, the associations will merely lose the revenue from the kids that play both......they'll choose choice just about every time!

jmho, but it looks like, sounds like and smells like a duck.

[keepmeoutofit]

could some people want to protect their son or daughter that dont want to take advantage of the extra practice/games?

[council member retired]

[quote="greybeard58"]Hook,
I believe there has been a problem with the scheduling where players tried to do both and for associations to have something like this put in place. I believe that it could have been handled at the team level but if I remember right there are a lot of lawyers in D6 and to bench a player now days for missing a practice or game draws a lot of complaints.
A number of years ago on a team I coached we had a goalie make the team but was also a wrestler. He told us his schedule and for practices we would work to make sure he could do both. We let him miss his turn on the last game before Districts for a wrestling team party and on that night we were surprised to see his wrestling coach at our game and when asked about the team party his reply was what party. We sat him for the District tournament because he lied to us and he finally admitted there was no party. His parents still complained.
The IRS comparison is drastically overstated, and if you search you might find that MM never approached the District about running programs that benefited both the association and MM.[/quote]

where does your district sit on this?

[Puckhead631]

Here is what I know.

USA Hockey does not allow players to be dual rostered for many reasons. Minnesota Hockey has the same rule, again for obvious reasons.

The spirit of the D6 rule is that players CAN play in other organized events such as Bernie's stickhandling clickes, breakfast clubs, Karns, etc... What they are trying to avoid is players playing on their D6 association teams and players playing for the Choice League's teams at the same time.

Here is an example of what could happen: D6 PWA team plays a game against another D6 PWA team. The 6-10 players feel that the Choice League game is more important and decide to blow off the D6 game and/or practice.

Now you have a team divided, jealous player issues, team loses, drops in the standings, etc... OK, I get it that this may be an extreme example, however, this could happen in the future. Could this be the beginning of the end of association not-for-profit hockey?

In fact, I spoke to an D6 coach the other day and he indicated that last year he had a few players skip their games and practices to play in the Squirt Choice league.

Again - D6 is only trying to protect Minnesota Hockey and the associations. The District Director has been consistent in telling people that you can play where you want - just please chose one or the other. If a player choses MM league this year and they want to come back to D6 next year - that is fine.

I heard that some of the people at the District6 meeting on Monday were there to support the D6 position.

Lastly - I saw the Channel 5 report at 10:00 pm and one parent said something like "my association does not allow my player the opportunity to develop and MM offers me customized training program for my son" - who looked like a Mite or Squirt. This is not true at all. The D6 rule would let this player parent sign him up for any skill development program he wants. Again - it is about not playing games in another league and I think we all would agree that playing games is not going to make a player great - it is skill programs that will help.

I am looking forward to seeing how this plays out.

[Ugottobekiddingme]

Hook,
I believe there has been a problem with the scheduling where players tried to do both and for associations to have something like this put in place. I believe that it could have been handled at the team level but if I remember right there are a lot of lawyers in D6 and to bench a player now days for missing a practice or game draws a lot of complaints.
A number of years ago on a team I coached we had a goalie make the team but was also a wrestler. He told us his schedule and for practices we would work to make sure he could do both. We let him miss his turn on the last game before Districts for a wrestling team party and on that night we were surprised to see his wrestling coach at our game and when asked about the team party his reply was what party. We sat him for the District tournament because he lied to us and he finally admitted there was no party. His parents still complained.
The IRS comparison is drastically overstated, and if you search you might find that MM never approached the District about running programs that benefited both the association and MM.

The IRS comparison is not drastically overstated Greybeard...would you like to discuss the difference between a 501(c) association non-profit and MM pay for play? Let's start this discussion!

[observer]

Hey, I like MM but here's some observations.

I'll guess some MMers starting speaking with their association leaders about how they'd like the schedule arranged so as not to impact Johnny's season at MM and that's when the associations finally said enough. Maybe even association coaches, and dads of better players, describing what they view as a nice arrangement, doing both, to other families. That's what dads like that do. They like to talk about what they're doing with their player. The associations want the families and the kids to train with them and probably feel that adjusting their schedule to benefit a competitor was not sensible. Also, these often are important players and families and they'd like them to devote that knowledge and energy to their community program as opposed to another. We've heard of as many as 16 important dads and moms leaving single associations. They want the parents more than the kids. Kids are replaceable. Strong community volunteers are not. Volunteer organizations need association leaders, coaches, managers, ice schedulers, tourney directors, fundraisers and many more bodies to assist in the running of a successful volunteer youth hockey organization that benefits all kids in the community. They're trying to help you understand that life is about serving others. Help develop the 15-20 kids your child skates with in the community. Don't be selfish and try and do something for your player that doesn't benefit the others. Your job is to help all the players in your community to become just as good as your player and spend your time with your association determining how to accomplish that task. Not bail on your responsibility to your community. MM can just drop the games and go back to training, which was their original vision, and it works for everyone. No problems. Do both and have a great year doing it. Play on a team with your community and do some extra training at MM.

The comment about Bernie trying to control "his" players extra activities is kind of funny. The tables have now turned. Now the parents will suggest to him that he needs to adjust his plan, and drop the games, and they'll still come train with him.

[black sheep]

D6 should look to make their program offerings more attractive rather than make this power play.

im not a city slicker so this is the part i don't understand...from the outside if seems as if D6 has some of the top teams in the state and puts out many of the states top players...what are they not offering?

the parent in the video states "the associations can't address individual needs"...so what do individuals need?

and all of this about mites...if they are skating and having fun what more do they really need?

[Deep Breath]

Is this just about mites? I thought MM offers a Choice League for squirts and this year is offering a PeeWee program as well. Is D6 just limiting the Mites from doing both, or are they limiting squirts and peewees as well?

[greybeard58]

CMR,
What might happen in other Districts depends on how many associations are affected. If the associations do complain and want action on a District level then I would not be surprised if something like either the language the High school League uses or a variation of the D6 rule both I believe were written by lawyers.

I also think observer is on the right track. During the winter I would see no problem with clinics for Squirt and Peewee, but I do feel that when you have another league for players problems with commitments to one or the other can arise.

[Penalty Box]

So McBrain changes the name from Choice League to Choice Clinic. And calls the rosters "attendance sheets." It really doesn't take a brain surgeon to get around this, does it?

[play4fun]

Hey, I like MM but here's some observations.

... We've heard of as many as 16 important dads and moms leaving single associations. They want the parents more than the kids. Kids are replaceable. Strong community volunteers are not. Volunteer organizations need association leaders, coaches, managers, ice schedulers, tourney directors, fundraisers and many more bodies to assist in the running of a successful volunteer youth hockey organization that benefits all kids in the community. They're trying to help you understand that life is about serving others. Help develop the 15-20 kids your child skates with in the community. Don't be selfish and try and do something for your player that doesn't benefit the others. Your job is to help all the players in your community to become just as good as your player and spend your time with your association determining how to accomplish that task. Not bail on your responsibility to your community. MM can just drop the games and go back to training, .

Kids are replaceable? My job is to help other kids become just as good as my kids? MM should just do whatever the associations tell it to?

WOW!!!! Really? And I suppose you sincerely believe you're a level-headed person serving as the voice of reason?