Kids that play both invitational and open tournaments

[irish skater]

Up until recently my kid has, in the past, played on teams in both the invitational and open weekends of the same tournament. I didn't really give it much thought. My son plays in another sport and I went to enter him in two different levels at a tournament and they said I had to pick one. That's when the light went off on playing in the hockey tournaments. The director of the organization my son was with last year did it with the team he was playing on. I've noticed going to these tournaments probably about 25 percent, or more, of the kids are playing both weekends. I guess I would like to see this come to a stop. One, it really isn't fair to the kids that play "open" and really do want a good experience and the teams they're up against have half the team that played under the same name in the "invitational" tournament last weekend. I did write an email to the showcase people asking them to limit the kids from playing in both weekends. Surprise!! No response. I would imagine without the extra kids you could probably take two teams out per age. Am I totally alone in this? I'm not talking about a team needing one or two players to fill out a roster. I'm talking teams that are "stacked" with "invite" kids playing in "open" tournaments.

There is one group locally that I think is kind of famous for this. They have a couple different teams for every level and they seem to have an open door policy with their roster. My thought is: If you want to stack a team, great, do it. But don't come back the next weekend and have the same kids playing on other teams or even that same team.

Thoughts??

[Quasar]

"irish skater"]
Up until recently my kid has, in the past, played on teams in both the invitational and open weekends of the same tournament. I didn't really give it much thought. My son plays in another sport and I went to enter him in two different levels at a tournament and they said I had to pick one. That's when the light went off on playing in the hockey tournaments. The director of the organization my son was with last year did it with the team he was playing on. I've noticed going to these tournaments probably about 25 percent, or more, of the kids are playing both weekends. I guess I would like to see this come to a stop. One, it really isn't fair to the kids that play "open" and really do want a good experience and the teams they're up against have half the team that played under the same name in the "invitational" tournament last weekend. I did write an email to the showcase people asking them to limit the kids from playing in both weekends. Surprise!! No response. I would imagine without the extra kids you could probably take two teams out per age. Am I totally alone in this? I'm not talking about a team needing one or two players to fill out a roster. I'm talking teams that are "stacked" with "invite" kids playing in "open" tournaments.

There is one group locally that I think is kind of famous for this. They have a couple different teams for every level and they seem to have an open door policy with their roster. My thought is: If you want to stack a team, great, do it. But don't come back the next weekend and have the same kids playing on other teams or even that same team.

Thoughts??

This is a common practice that hides the fact of who these teams really are. As long as the whole AAA thing is run on an "Out Law" basis. Ie: No rosters, no stats, no records it is easier to sell your program on your tournament record. The people putting on the tournaments will eventually pay the price with lower attendance, and less interest. The situation will improve with time. Too many kids playing. Too much money being spent. It is still way better than nothing at all..

.Just my opinion

[old goalie85]

Q- I agree the whole thing is about $. It is better now than when my oldest [94] started. More options.

[Cardiackid]

Years ago when my oldest who is an 86 played they were pretty strict about playing in both the invite and open tournaments. It was looked at as cheating. No different than using a 97 on a 98 team. You are correct as I see quite a few of the same kids playing both weekends and in fact see teams that have finished middle of pack or higher in invite tourneys playing in the Open. Last time a kid asked me about doing both my response was if you are an invite level player why would you want to play in the Open? There was also a little something about having integrity which seems to be lacking in quite a few of the programs who constantly try and load up with the Invite kids on Open weekend. Bottom line it is a payday for those standing on every street corner selling the latest and greatest program. Not to fear however, Brookings SD is getting a AAA team next year and all will be right with the world, thanks to the people behind the Northland Hockey group as they are the ones who saw the hockey hotbed.

[tonyleepers]

I also see quite a few kids playing on multiple AAA teams.
1 reason is that they practicing with the invite level, but during tournament games they dont see much ice time.So they play with an open team because they will get game ice time. I wouldn't do this, but understand if they have the time, and the kid likes it, good for them.
2nd reason is in some open team cases they cannot always fill a roster every game. Most open teams have kids that play multiple sports and tend to allow that more often. So they request others to fill in, based on need more than money. My invite son, has done that, filled in on an open team, dont rip him, he just wanted to play hockey, get on the ice, can't fault him for that.
I dont agree with entire teams playing in both, but with all the teams, things happen and sometimes they need kids to fill in. So in the end, i know some do it for the wrong reasons, but I dont think it is a big enough problem at this point. Plus, there are many teams on the fence, struggle heavily at the invite level but do really well at the open level.

[hockeygirl2]

One other thing to keep in mind is that there are many "invite" level kids playing on open teams because they want to play other sports as well. Playing on open teams frees them up to play baseball instead of being committed to hockey if there was a conflict. There are more than a few "open" teams that would be better than many of the "invite" teams playing in the invite tournies. So it's a little more than an open team stacking their team with invite players.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

One other thing to keep in mind is that there are many "invite" level kids playing on open teams because they want to play other sports as well. Playing on open teams frees them up to play baseball instead of being committed to hockey if there was a conflict. There are more than a few "open" teams that would be better than many of the "invite" teams playing in the invite tournies. So it's a little more than an open team stacking their team with invite players.

Granted there are some tournaments that really aren't "invite" level but I don't believe there open teams that will beat are MANY "invite" teams. For one the "invite" tournaments seems to be scrambling for teams so I'm sure the good open teams would and could play in them. Open tournaments are normally week before or after the "invite" so its not like other sports are preventing them ... maybe a single event conflict is.

[hockeygirl2]

There are more conflicts in the spring tournaments than in the late summer. What I am talking about more than that is the level of committment a typical invite level team requires versus an open team. Keep in mind, there are truly only a very few really good invite level teams. I am not suggesting that they would beat the MAchine, blades, Icemen, and a few others. But as for the rest of them, yes, there are some open teams that would beat many of the rest of the teams.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

There are more conflicts in the spring tournaments than in the late summer. What I am talking about more than that is the level of committment a typical invite level team requires versus an open team. Keep in mind, there are truly only a very few really good invite level teams. I am not suggesting that they would beat the MAchine, blades, Icemen, and a few others. But as for the rest of them, yes, there are some open teams that would beat many of the rest of the teams.

I quoted "invite" to signify they're not all tier I/elite and understand the commitment level and because the lines are blurred between open and "invite" and many team play in both. I would be curious to know who are some of these teams playing exclusively in the open tournaments that beat many invite teams.

[old goalie85]

What level is the Caribu, I know our team is not a invite level team, but quite sure all Nats teams will win a couple, 00's might have a tougher time. Point being we are middle of the road summer team. Who cares what level the teams play at. Blades, Machine and Icemen are in it so what. does not hurt the kids to play top kids once in a while. I think it makes it fun.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

What level is the Caribu, I know our team is not a invite level team, but quite sure all Nats teams will win a couple, 00's might have a tougher time. Point being we are middle of the road summer team. Who cares what level the teams play at. Blades, Machine and Icemen are in it so what. does not hurt the kids to play top kids once in a while. I think it makes it fun.

Who cares ? teams that want competitive games. Check this bored and see how people react INCLUDING YOU when a team beats another team 19-0.

While i agree summer hockey is for fun and the lines blur between invite and open teams there needs to be some type of measure to ensure competitive games.

Edit : Caribou is as invite as it gets around here.

[irish skater]

What level is the Caribu, I know our team is not a invite level team, but quite sure all Nats teams will win a couple, 00's might have a tougher time. Point being we are middle of the road summer team. Who cares what level the teams play at. Blades, Machine and Icemen are in it so what. does not hurt the kids to play top kids once in a while. I think it makes it fun.

Who cares ? teams that want competitive games. Check this bored and see how people react INCLUDING YOU when a team beats another team 19-0.

While i agree summer hockey is for fun and the lines blur between invite and open teams there needs to be some type of measure to ensure competitive games.

Edit : Caribou is as invite as it gets around here.

I agree with most of what I've read. I do agree that there is a blurring going on, but that's not what I really mean. I was more referring to kids/teams that play in the invite tournament one weekend and in the open the next. These kids usually aren't playing up the first weekend. They're playing down the second. There's two organizations that come to mind immediately that do a lot of this. Hell, I had my kid in plenty of them and never gave it a thought really. A different sport kind of opened my eyes to it -- playing in one or the other. As I said, I did email Showcase suggesting to them to limit the kids to one tournament, but I'm sure that would reduce each level by one or two teams and they would have a financial interest in that. The organizations that send the same team to both levels are just looking for some hardware and bragging rights for recruiting.

[Quasar]

Who cares ? teams that want competitive games. Check this bored and see how people react INCLUDING YOU when a team beats another team 19-0.

While i agree summer hockey is for fun and the lines blur between invite and open teams there needs to be some type of measure to ensure competitive games.

Edit : Caribou is as invite as it gets around here.

I agree with most of what I've read. I do agree that there is a blurring going on, but that's not what I really mean. I was more referring to kids/teams that play in the invite tournament one weekend and in the open the next. These kids usually aren't playing up the first weekend. They're playing down the second. There's two organizations that come to mind immediately that do a lot of this. Hell, I had my kid in plenty of them and never gave it a thought really. A different sport kind of opened my eyes to it -- playing in one or the other. As I said, I did email Showcase suggesting to them to limit the kids to one tournament, but I'm sure that would reduce each level by one or two teams and they would have a financial interest in that. The organizations that send the same team to both levels are just looking for some hardware and bragging rights for recruiting.

There are also kids that play on more than one team. Both Invite and Open.. I think as the teams that came into existence in the last couple of years settle down, Tournament directors may have a little better handle on who's who.

But.. I agree with you that a better job could be done cleaning up rosters..

in the mean time I'm happy to see all these kids playing...

[irish skater]

I agree with most of what I've read. I do agree that there is a blurring going on, but that's not what I really mean. I was more referring to kids/teams that play in the invite tournament one weekend and in the open the next. These kids usually aren't playing up the first weekend. They're playing down the second. There's two organizations that come to mind immediately that do a lot of this. Hell, I had my kid in plenty of them and never gave it a thought really. A different sport kind of opened my eyes to it -- playing in one or the other. As I said, I did email Showcase suggesting to them to limit the kids to one tournament, but I'm sure that would reduce each level by one or two teams and they would have a financial interest in that. The organizations that send the same team to both levels are just looking for some hardware and bragging rights for recruiting.

There are also kids that play on more than one team. Both Invite and Open.. I think as the teams that came into existence in the last couple of years settle down, Tournament directors may have a little better handle on who's who.

But.. I agree with you that a better job could be done cleaning up rosters..

in the mean time I'm happy to see all these kids playing...

Good point. There are certainly a lot of kids playing hockey year around now. Plus, I don't think it's the kids that are manipulating the rosters. Safe bet.

[Quasar]

[q

uote="irish skater"]

There are also kids that play on more than one team. Both Invite and Open.. I think as the teams that came into existence in the last couple of years settle down, Tournament directors may have a little better handle on who's who.

But.. I agree with you that a better job could be done cleaning up rosters..

in the mean time I'm happy to see all these kids playing...

Good point. There are certainly a lot of kids playing hockey year around now. Plus, I don't think it's the kids that are manipulating the rosters. Safe bet.

You got that right!!!

If was the kids choosing sides it would probably make a lot more sense..

[Pudda_Puck_In_Her_Ear]

my kid plays both, always will.

Invite = business
Open = pleasure

he loves both aspects of hockey, who am I to say no?

[JSR]

my kid plays both, always will.

Invite = business
Open = pleasure

he loves both aspects of hockey, who am I to say no?

Kids and business used in the same sentence for an extracirricular activity.......

[Pudda_Puck_In_Her_Ear]

my kid plays both, always will.

Invite = business
Open = pleasure

he loves both aspects of hockey, who am I to say no?

Kids and business used in the same sentence for an extracirricular activity.......

OH ffs! always trying to bring drama in ... just a figure of speech my man.

Perhaps I should type it differently for all the drama dada's out there ...

Invite = better competition and development
Open = better puck time and parents

???

[JSR]

my kid plays both, always will.

Invite = business
Open = pleasure

he loves both aspects of hockey, who am I to say no?

Kids and business used in the same sentence for an extracirricular activity.......

OH ffs! always trying to bring drama in ... just a figure of speech my man.

Perhaps I should type it differently for all the drama dada's out there ...

Invite = better competition and development
Open = better puck time and parents

???

Invite, agree competition is higher, disagree that it's better development as development come sin all forms, ie the more puck time you mention for the open tourney's is also greta development

Open, puck time shouldn't be that much more, if it is your feeding what others are saying about why kids shouldn't play in both. As for the parents, if there is discernible difference maybe your in the wrong club as why would you associate with people you don't like???

[Pudda_Puck_In_Her_Ear]

*le sigh*

I bow to your powerful deductive reasoning and your sincere inability to grasp any sort of implied humor regarding hockey parents.

If my kids can get more time with the puck on their stick building confidence in puck handling through traffic, then so be it. Besides that, they have more fun at open level tourney's. Dad let's them eat junk food and swim.

You want more icetime for your kids? There are plenty of openings around town.

If people put as much effort into solving problems as they did complaining about other people ...

[JSR]

*le sigh*

I bow to your powerful deductive reasoning and your sincere inability to grasp any sort of implied humor regarding hockey parents.

If my kids can get more time with the puck on their stick building confidence in puck handling through traffic, then so be it. Besides that, they have more fun at open level tourney's. Dad let's them eat junk food and swim.

You want more icetime for your kids? There are plenty of openings around town.

If people put as much effort into solving problems as they did complaining about other people ...

What humor? You mean like how I find it humorous when dad's don't let their 10 year old kids swim at an invite tourney as if it really means something.....

[Pudda_Puck_In_Her_Ear]

ok, I'll phrase this another way ...

you are right, everyone that disagrees is wrong. I wish I could be as wise and handsome as you are.