Catching up on the District 6 vs. Bernie discussion

lxhockey · Post by **lxhockey** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:24 pm

I am not sure why D6 is taking all the heat on this as it appears to me they are just enforcing the age old Minnesota Hockey rule that you cannot be rostered on more than 1 team. I guess that might be an implied more than 1 MH team, and MM teams are not a MH affiliate.

I can see both sides of this, but really - I think there are some burrs up some private parts big time.

Let's go back to basics, youth development should be promoting at least a 3-1 practice to game ratio. If you are in a league that has 2 games a week you should be on the ice 8 times that week. If you add another team in another league to that schedule you are creeping on overloading the kid, but if you as the parent believe it can be done and is desireable you should be able to do so.

The MH association is also attempting to balance all the players into teams with an acceptable number so all team members receive enough ice time and can be competitive. One might think that if there is a conflict it won't hurt to miss one or two practices or games. Maybe. I guess that depends on how teammates may rely on this player. What if this player is the team's only goalie?

The old saying is there is no I in team. Once you make a committment to a team you start shaping character. Is the character you want to build a selfish one that puts you first or the team. Coaches try and build that team character and coach kids to work WITH their teammates instead of being a puck hog or worse - taking a shot at the goalie themselves instead of passing it to their teammate who is open and has a shot at an unprotected net.

There are other ways around this if the parents and kids really desire to play on two teams at once. The player could play down a level on the association league and thereby not taking a spot on a team from someone who really can commit to the team. I am sure there are several others also. But I think if you get rid of the emotion of D6 vs MM and look at the goals of each and ponder the role of the individual, the responsibility of a team member and sort out the logistics, transportation and time available, 99% of the target audience should conclude that the correct thing to do is to be on one team. For the exceptional 1%, they will always find a way to make it work out.

Like I started with though, being on one team is not a D6 concept. It has been a MH rule for a long time.

wildhair · Post by **wildhair** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:06 pm

Brad Hewitt is way off base.

spin-o-rama · Post by **spin-o-rama** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:08 pm

double post

spin-o-rama · Post by **spin-o-rama** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:10 pm

lxhockey wrote:I am not sure why D6 is taking all the heat on this as it appears to me they are just enforcing the age old Minnesota Hockey rule that you cannot be rostered on more than 1 team. I guess that might be an implied more than 1 MH team, and MM teams are not a MH affiliate.

...

Like I started with though, being on one team is not a D6 concept. It has been a MH rule for a long time.

Here's a little clarification from the MH Youth Rules & Regulations:

II B. No Player shall be registered with two or more MH/USA Hockey teams at the same time regardless of league division or classification, except: 1. Players on city house teams may play with both their team and a city traveling team. 2. This provision shall not apply to female youth age players who may register on both a youth C or House team and also register with a girl's A or B team for the purpose of practice, exhibition games, league games and tournament competition including the USA Hockey National Women's Tournament. This exception should not dissuade an association from starting a girls program at any age level. 3. Special Events approved by the MH Board. Such events must comply with requirements established by MH, and must be on the Winter Meeting agenda at the latest, according to the Bylaw requirements for putting items on the agenda. Approval of Special Events shall be by 2/3 vote.

Should MH/USAH have the power to dictate what you can and can't do outside their program? They do with the drug and alcohol policy. And some think that goes to far. The EP "red cup" incident had plenty protesting that the HS shouldn't be allowed to discipline what happens outside the school. While that rule is about what's good for the kids, the MM rule is less about protecting the kids and more about protecting the market dominance. The problem is that this will probably lead to mandatory attendance requirements which can upset the religion, school, music, and other activities that kids do participate in during the hockey season.

lxhockey · Post by **lxhockey** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:43 pm

I agree, that MH should not be able to tell you what to do outside of MH interaction, but they are well within their rights to establish the rules for Districts, affiliates/associations which inevitably trickle down to individuals who choose to belong to (become part of) MH upon registration, for how MH wants to conduct the organization.

Typically when you pay to become a member of something you are agreeing to abide by their rules in order to get something of value to you.

I am a former association president and have had to deal with contraband situations and it is rarely easy because most of the information is based on technical rumors. If approached respective of individual rights and discuss issues with parents, most problems are resolved before they escalate into emotional lines drawn in the sand.

I have a lot of respect for Brad Hewitt and the tremendous responsibility he has, let alone how many hours he spends volunteering to make things better for D6 hockey. I have not always agreed with him and will continue to disagree with him on some items, but if you are truly upset with him and the job he does, it is an elected position. Don't just post bad things about him and turn your back. Get involved in your association leadership and your disctrict leadership and make a difference yourself.

Wait until your youth player hits HS and you as a parent have very little say about ANYTHING. The coach does not talk to parents. The AD works for the ISD who is at the mercy of the MSHSL, which if you think D6 and MH have a monopoly .... hahaha. MSHSL has rules for some and not for others so tread lightly. Thank MH for having a Jr Gold program for those players.

scrapiron · Post by **scrapiron** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:33 pm

The rule about being rostered on two team is only in regaurds to being roster on two USA hockey sanctioned teams in the same season. This is refering the the rostering of players for post season sanctioned team and tournament. Such as the Select 15, 16 and 17s. Players for those team can not be rostered until after the state tournament is over. That rule has nothing to do with any non-sanctioned teams.

In other states there are many more sanctioned post season tournaments.

lxhockey · Post by **lxhockey** » Wed Sep 15, 2010 7:14 pm

And what was the problem that surfaced that resulted in MH creating that rule? And how many other hockey organizations existed so that someone even needed to think about the implications of playing on multiple teams during the same season?

Not too long ago only D6 and D5 allowed open enrollment. After several years of debate, open enrollment was adopted by MH. (Still not accepted by many members) D6 led the charge on open enrollment by using the model they put into place only because they were faced with the problem sooner than any other District.

D6 appears to be attempting to be proactice on a problem that is presenting itself to its members. I would like to know from D6 what the problem is that they feel needs to be addressed. I'm sure if I went to a D6 meeting or bothered to contact my local D6 rep I could find out the answer to that. Maybe it is just a perceived problem and needs more discussion.

Either way, D6 felt strongly enough about this that they made a rule for D6 members. If you don't like it, get involved to change it, or choose not to participate in D6 hockey.

hockeyrocks87 · Post by **hockeyrocks87** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 12:11 am

Old Goalie - You forgot the part about BM driving a taxi and the fact that he wears 80's vintage Nike tennis shoes too. What the hell does the fact that BM was cut from a JV team have to do with anything??? Wayne Gretzky was the best player to ever play the game and he sucked as a NHL head coach. Why can't you speak the truth instead of being a hater!!!

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:32 am

Hey hockey rocks I did speak the truth. Someone asked ,and I wrote the TRUTH!!! It has nothing to do with what kind of coach he is. They asked what his playing back ground was. Ask him, he will tell you I'm telling the truth you nut-job!!!!

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:09 am

Thanks oldgoalie85. The reason I had asked BM's background as player and youth coach is that his personality does not seem that unlike JP Parise. JP stood in the wings a bit back in Zach's Jefferson early youth days. Then he stepped to the forefront. I assume things deteriorated in Bloomington and the move was on.

I assume BM coached his son from Mites on up? I was curious if it was in one youth association, or was he transient? I've seen BM linked to the Fire, and wondered what his involvement had been there because MN Hockey and various districts had not welcomed the Fire, and possibly tried to create rules banning them?

Good coaches did not have to play high level hockey and high level players aren't always good coaches. I'm sure Forest Lake was a power in the early 80's so no shame in not making the varsity there. I just wondered if playing B hockey growing up gave BM an inferiority complex or something? Train with MM and you will make the A team?

Benito Juarez · Post by **Benito Juarez** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:15 am

BadgerBob82 wrote:
I'm sure Forest Lake was a power in the early 80's so no shame in not making the varsity there.

dzonecoverage · Post by **dzonecoverage** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:10 pm

Bernie coached his son at Eastview until he called a female referee, during a Squirt A game, a rather vulger word. Was removed from his coaching position.

BadgerBob82 · Post by **BadgerBob82** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:46 pm

Alot of coaches lack the passion and intensity to really put Squirt referees in their place. I assume the move was on from Eastview after that?

SnowedIn · Post by **SnowedIn** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:34 pm

So here's a guy that accomplishes something pretty terriffic with his 88 group. He catapults this into a living using the same training methods offering a service that many perceive to be valuable in the local area, not to mention USA Hockey. And people want to point at his hockey background, his personality... Was it his hockey background that enabled his success as a developmental coach? Was it his personality? I don't think those things really matter to Okposo, Mueller and the other guys drafted, nor all of the kids that are leading their association teams, or the kids that will continue to play at the top of their game in high school, Shattuck, Juniors, D1, D3 or the pros. They will look back and be glad they had the opportunity to develop their skills at MM, not talk about his hockey background.

I keep reading about his hockey background, but find it funny that none of his hockey accomplishments over the last 10 years are included. Kind of important don't you think?

01state · Post by **01state** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:36 pm

Bernie coached me in Lake Placid and my dad played with him growing up. He was never cut. He play Varsity and JV as a Junior. He got a job as a Senior because he got kick out of his house and was living out of his car. Some of you people are such jerks!

mkpfb · Post by **mkpfb** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:02 pm

So you know, Bernie has kind of blown his "88" success out of proportion. Yes, it is true that in the year 2000, Bernie formed the 88s as peewees with players he had coaxed away from the Blades team that he was assistant coach for and the 88s won most of their games.

It is notable that seven of the 88s were drafted. It is also notable that The Blades had 16 players drafted that year, including the seven who left with Bernie. So after the split, Bernie had seven draft picks and the Blades had nine.

Actually, these two summer programs helped the kids, but can not take anything close to full credit for their development. In addition to playing in the summer, those players had help from places like Shattuck, Jefferson, Edina and some other pretty strong hockey development programs.

High Off The Glass · Post by **High Off The Glass** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:47 pm

mkpfb wrote:So you know, Bernie has kind of blown his "88" success out of proportion. Yes, it is true that in the year 2000, Bernie formed the 88s as peewees with players he had coaxed away from the Blades team that he was assistant coach for and the 88s won most of their games.

It is notable that seven of the 88s were drafted. It is also notable that The Blades had 16 players drafted that year, including the seven who left with Bernie. So after the split, Bernie had seven draft picks and the Blades had nine.

Actually, these two summer programs helped the kids, but can not take anything close to full credit for their development. In addition to playing in the summer, those players had help from places like Shattuck, Jefferson, Edina and some other pretty strong hockey development programs.

You are right. The team BM always talks about (the 88's), were originally formed and trained by the Blades, and BM later formed his 88 team from the core Blades team and took all the credit for their success. The original Blade team, after BM split and took some players from, had more kids move to D1 and later drafted than MM's 88's.

hockeydad11 · Post by **hockeydad11** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:50 pm

Not so Fast mkpfb

Here is the time line for the 88s

Summer of:
1997 The Pride
1998 88 Blades
1999 Mn Spirit (Until June)
1999 Mn 88s (June - Sept)
2000 Mn 88s
2001 Mn 88s
2002 Mn 88s
2003 Mn 88s

Many of the 88s played on the 87 Pride team in 97. The Pride team played together the whole summer that year. The Blades recruited Bernie to coach with a guy named Irv Singer. It worked out that Bernie brought those 88s with him.
After that one year with the Blades, the Blades fired Irv Singer becuase he start the Elite Classic with the 87 Blades coach John Bosacker. The team then became the Spirit. After a poor showing in Toronto Bernie and the his asst coach Tom Carman pull most of the team with them and became the MN 88s.

Just the Facts.

hockeydad11 · Post by **hockeydad11** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:57 pm

The time line was from Peggy Johnson Mother of Erik Johnson member of the 88s.

Other than Irv Singer there was not one Blades Coach the ever spent a minute with that 88 team. Irv was the reason they left. His son was not very strong and he wanted to build the team around his kid.

hockeydad11 · Post by **hockeydad11** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:03 pm

Another little side note that Peggy told me was that Bernie cut Erik (Johnson) from that first Pride team. Then offered him a spot on the team when another player turned him down.

SnowedIn · Post by **SnowedIn** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:45 pm

So I guess he isn't blowing his success out of proportion. Seems that all of the years he spent with these guys, he must have been running some pretty good practices so that they all came out with way above average skill sets that took them to the top, and responsible for the best draft year in the history of the state and probably the country.

Just the facts

High Off The Glass · Post by **High Off The Glass** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:47 pm

hockeydad11 wrote:Not so Fast mkpfb

Here is the time line for the 88s

Summer of:
1997 The Pride
1998 88 Blades
1999 Mn Spirit (Until June)
1999 Mn 88s (June - Sept)
2000 Mn 88s
2001 Mn 88s
2002 Mn 88s
2003 Mn 88s

Many of the 88s played on the 87 Pride team in 97. The Pride team played together the whole summer that year. The Blades recruited Bernie to coach with a guy named Irv Singer. It worked out that Bernie brought those 88s with him.
After that one year with the Blades, the Blades fired Irv Singer becuase he start the Elite Classic with the 87 Blades coach John Bosacker. The team then became the Spirit. After a poor showing in Toronto Bernie and the his asst coach Tom Carman pull most of the team with them and became the MN 88s.

Just the Facts.

After a long hiatus, BM is back online. Nice to have you back!

High Off The Glass · Post by **High Off The Glass** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:51 pm

Does anyone remember this little doozie or blast from the past from HD11 or shall I say BM:

Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:52 pm Subject: A Blades Bait and switch?
Does anyone really believe Terry Moore when he said "that it never occurred to him". He is an attorney! That's what attorneys do, they twist the facts.

It's funny when BM is now putting all his eggs into one basket with those twisted attorneys!

mkpfb · Post by **mkpfb** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:56 pm

Your history is a bit revised. It is true that Bernie first recruited the kids away from the Blades to the Spirit and then again took them away from his coaching partner Irv Singer for himself in 2000. But the 99 Spirit played together after Toronto in the International Cup.

By the way, Bernie was also a Blades coach as was Mike Carmen's dad. Not true to say Singer was the only Blades coach who spent time with them.

My original point is true: These kids had many hockey influences. Bernie or the Blades taking all the credit for their success is not really true. Give the credit to the kids, their parents and their multiple coaches, in that order.

hockeydad11 · Post by **hockeydad11** » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:04 pm

Wrong again. High on Grass.

The funny thing is that you are way out in left field on the 88s. No one from the Blade worked with those players yet. How about admitting you are self serving.

Just another thought...Mr. Blades himself Terry Morre's son is a 95. He would have been 2 or 3 year old when the 88s got going. Terry did not become involed with Blades until 2004.

Just be honest the Blades had nothing to do with that team and they are taking undeserved credit.