Time to Put the Choice to the test. Where did they Land?

[irish skater]

I've thought about this a lot. My son did one year of mites and one year of squirts at MM. His mite year was awesome. I felt he really benefitted from the program. The coaches worked them very hard and made full use of the ice while they had it. There was very little standing around. I was very excited about getting him back for another year of that. The teams usually have the ice to themselves, so I assumed all the teams were practicing like this. When we would share ice, the other team would follow our practice drills

Enter his second year: Squirts. He played with a good bunch of kids with skills ranging from just okay to very good. I did find out something very important about the Choice league. It's the coaches. It's just like anywhere else. If you get a good coach, you'll love it. It's true that in mites everyone is supposed to be doing roughly the same drills. But the coaches dictate the pace at which you do them. My son had a coach in squirts, although he was a very good man, just didn't get as much out of the kids as my son's first coaches.

Just the pace of the practices his first year -- I fell in love with the place. The second year he had a more laid back coach (during practices) and the kids weren't pushed nearly as hard. I wanted his coach from the first year (girls team - hint, hint)

Now my son is in association hockey. I still have never even seen an A squirt game, so I'm not quite sure what to expect. When he returned to his association, he returned at about the same level he was at when he left. He plays summer hockey, too. He is on the A team and seems to be about where he was two years ago talent-wise.

The Choice league offers a lot of good things, though. A lot of ice time. No volunteer time. There doesn't seem to be a lot of the ugliness that I see in youth sports at the Choice league. Not sure why. Maybe it's because the parents don't know each other, but I never once heard a parent complain about where their kid was playing, blah-blah-blah.

I don't want to dog the coaching in his squirt year. He had a great assistant on the team, but it was the head coach that dictated the pace, and frankly, it wasn't very fast. When the head coach was gone for a practice, the pace would pick up considerably -- Rob.

One final point, then I'll shut up. You're welcome. One thing I didn't like was that Bernie would move his young Ma-cheen players up to play with the older kids. Don't get me wrong, they were good, but they were little and younger and if they would get bumped, they'd go flying. We only had one second-year kid on our team, and after about half the season was over, he only came to the games. He never came to any more practices -- literally. That kind of showed me that BM was more interested in the money. Just as long as they paid . . .

Was it worth the money? 50/50. Depends on what day of the week you ask me. Great kids there. Met some wonderful parents and coaches, too. It's nice going to tournaments for my son and knowing people all over.

[mnhockeywatch]

Great Question

One of my kids is currently playing in the Mite Choice League...I'm very active in our local association both on the ice and in the mgmt. I have another younger child playing exclusively in the association. Disclaimer - Assuming the player wants to be at MM which is a big assumption. Here's my take on the ultimate outcome.

MM will make a very positive impact on your players individual abilities. Can MM make a player with an average level of effort into an A player – No Way! Can they make an A player out of an average player who's highly motivated - Absolutely!

As a parent Choice is a big commitment of resources and time. The prize as a parent – No politics and like minded people.

I'll make one additional comment/prediction: That being - As the USA Hockey ADM is implemented in more metro communities...MM Choice League will become more and more sought after as a better alternative.

[SECoach]

Great Question

One of my kids is currently playing in the Mite Choice League...I'm very active in our local association both on the ice and in the mgmt. I have another younger child playing exclusively in the association. Disclaimer - Assuming the player wants to be at MM which is a big assumption. Here's my take on the ultimate outcome.

MM will make a very positive impact on your players individual abilities. Can MM make a player with an average level of effort into an A player – No Way! Can they make an A player out of an average player who's highly motivated - Absolutely!

As a parent Choice is a big commitment of resources and time. The prize as a parent – No politics and like minded people.

I'll make one additional comment/prediction: That being - As the USA Hockey ADM is implemented in more metro communities...MM Choice League will become more and more sought after as a better alternative.

I'll give 3 to 1 odds that your prediction is wrong.

[MN_Hcky_Coach]

I agree, 3-1 is great odds...what part of other associations adapting the ADM is going to put private programs ahead????

Look if you want to pay money to give your mites an early advantage, great, do it, but don't be mad when they don't make the NHL. Also, with more associations adapting ADM principals, the better the development is becoming in those associations.

Put it this way, USA hockey put the ADM into place to make all hockey better and those principals will make MN hockey better as well, and remember, MN hockey has always been the best youth hockey in the country.

[hockeygirl2]

Hey Huge Hook ( I hope thats not a moniker for something else), there is a first year Edina PWA player (only one that made it) and he was a player in BM's inagural mite choice league.

[InigoMontoya]

but don't be mad when they don't make the NHL.

I thought we all agreed to quit using that old bit?


Most of the people I've talked to don't take their kids to MM because they think it is the greatest thing ever; they are not running to something, they are running away from something. They are fleeing an environment where mites are on the ice twice a week. There are upwards of 50 kids on the ice, so by the time they get them all organized, they've already blown 10 minutes. Then they divide them into 6 stations, each with about 8 kids. The skating drills only have enough room to have the kids skate about 20 feet then stop. They have 6 stations to hit, so they only have 7 or 8 minutes at each station, which means they only get 2 or 3 reps. 8 kids standing around lends to coaches having to watch the behavior of kids standing around rather than the technique of the kid doing the drill. All 50 kids run through the same drills, so some are bored, some are in way over their heads. 5 or 10 minutes is reserved at the end of practice for pom pom pullaway. They’re mites, so it’s cute fall down while they try to kick a soccer ball. The kids obviously don’t think this is as fun as the adults that are pushing it, because by January 1/3 of them are only showing up on cross-ice-game-day. After 4 years the kids, that have had only the association experience, don’t skate very well, can’t handle the puck very well, and though they may be able to win a 2-on-2 battle in a 10X10 box, they have no idea how the game flows in open ice.

There are families that don’t want that. MH is set up to road block fluid movement to options that are best for some kids. Currently MM offers something other than four years of association mite hockey. I also think that some folks fear the above example is what the ADM will bring to an ice rink near you.

[hockeyover40]

but don't be mad when they don't make the NHL.

I thought we all agreed to quit using that old bit?


Most of the people I've talked to don't take their kids to MM because they think it is the greatest thing ever; they are not running to something, they are running away from something. They are fleeing an environment where mites are on the ice twice a week. There are upwards of 50 kids on the ice, so by the time they get them all organized, they've already blown 10 minutes. Then they divide them into 6 stations, each with about 8 kids. The skating drills only have enough room to have the kids skate about 20 feet then stop. They have 6 stations to hit, so they only have 7 or 8 minutes at each station, which means they only get 2 or 3 reps. 8 kids standing around lends to coaches having to watch the behavior of kids standing around rather than the technique of the kid doing the drill. All 50 kids run through the same drills, so some are bored, some are in way over their heads. 5 or 10 minutes is reserved at the end of practice for pom pom pullaway. They’re mites, so it’s cute fall down while they try to kick a soccer ball. The kids obviously don’t think this is as fun as the adults that are pushing it, because by January 1/3 of them are only showing up on cross-ice-game-day. After 4 years the kids, that have had only the association experience, don’t skate very well, can’t handle the puck very well, and though they may be able to win a 2-on-2 battle in a 10X10 box, they have no idea how the game flows in open ice.

There are families that don’t want that. MH is set up to road block fluid movement to options that are best for some kids. Currently MM offers something other than four years of association mite hockey. I also think that some folks fear the above example is what the ADM will bring to an ice rink near you.

Very good points. Exactly the case in our situation. We were running away from the associations way of doing things. Another problem is the apparent refusal of associations change their ways. Three years ago I brought this to the attention of our hockey development guy and to the mite director. I didn't tell them what to do, just suggested they set up a development program so every skater can skate, puck handle, and shoot when they move on to squirts. Use the synergy of other programs, their ideas, and their training methods along with the association methods and ideas. Up until now there have been no changes. They continue to train mites in the ways you mention. And continue to send mites up to squirts without these skills. One promising note though. I did have the chance to talk to the president of the association, who is a very smart guy, and has done some very good things for our association. Maybe he will see the need to add some new blood, new ideas, new methods, to go along with the good things they're already doing. A guy can hope.

[dogeatdog1]

but don't be mad when they don't make the NHL.

I thought we all agreed to quit using that old bit?


Most of the people I've talked to don't take their kids to MM because they think it is the greatest thing ever; they are not running to something, they are running away from something. They are fleeing an environment where mites are on the ice twice a week. There are upwards of 50 kids on the ice, so by the time they get them all organized, they've already blown 10 minutes. Then they divide them into 6 stations, each with about 8 kids. The skating drills only have enough room to have the kids skate about 20 feet then stop. They have 6 stations to hit, so they only have 7 or 8 minutes at each station, which means they only get 2 or 3 reps. 8 kids standing around lends to coaches having to watch the behavior of kids standing around rather than the technique of the kid doing the drill. All 50 kids run through the same drills, so some are bored, some are in way over their heads. 5 or 10 minutes is reserved at the end of practice for pom pom pullaway. They’re mites, so it’s cute fall down while they try to kick a soccer ball. The kids obviously don’t think this is as fun as the adults that are pushing it, because by January 1/3 of them are only showing up on cross-ice-game-day. After 4 years the kids, that have had only the association experience, don’t skate very well, can’t handle the puck very well, and though they may be able to win a 2-on-2 battle in a 10X10 box, they have no idea how the game flows in open ice.

There are families that don’t want that. MH is set up to road block fluid movement to options that are best for some kids. Currently MM offers something other than four years of association mite hockey. I also think that some folks fear the above example is what the ADM will bring to an ice rink near you.

My take... which I am sure that you don't want
1. they are Mites... let them have fun
2. The game hasn't changed that much in 40 years and the first 3-4 years of skating is just that have fun and experiment. Too much focus is being put on 5-7year old kids.
3. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO FALL BEHIND>>>>>Athelets will catch up to little MM johnny that skated 1000 a year for the first 4 yeas of his life. I have seen it happen many times...that is why I put this thread out for discussion andwas wondering where they were now...I forget what previious poster said it but I think that it holds true. You are not going to take a kid that will never be a star and make him one... You might make an average player a good one but there are many ways to skin a cat.

I do enjoy seeing the hockey people that seem to know what they are doing respond with some common sense to this thread and not changing it into a bash session. The Choice is there and as information gets out it might allow people to make informed decisions about whether or not to spend their $$ there.

[James B Mcbain]

[My take... which I am sure that you don't want
1. they are Mites... let them have fun
2. The game hasn't changed that much in 40 years and the first 3-4 years of skating is just that have fun and experiment. Too much focus is being put on 5-7year old kids.
3. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO FALL BEHIND>>>>>Athelets will catch up to little MM johnny that skated 1000 a year for the first 4 yeas of his life. I have seen it happen many times...that is why I put this thread out for discussion andwas wondering where they were now...I forget what previious poster said it but I think that it holds true. You are not going to take a kid that will never be a star and make him one... You might make an average player a good one but there are many ways to skin a cat.

I do enjoy seeing the hockey people that seem to know what they are doing respond with some common sense to this thread and not changing it into a bash session. The Choice is there and as information gets out it might allow people to make informed decisions about whether or not to spend their $$ there.

The MM Mite program fosters the early development that say ADM does. And yes, they can fall behind if the kids are not in a productive association environment. MM provides this for those that aren't getting what they want from their association.

1. Who says MM isn't fun even if just a mite?
2. Depends on what the goal is? Have you read ADM and other studies. Yes the game has changed, have you watched old highlight reals? It's faster and they're better athletes.
3. Yes they will fall behind if you don't have good coaching and a good environment to foster their development. Yes SOME kids do catch up. A solid foundation that started at an early age certainly helps.

This is mainly common sense stuff.

[mnhockeywatch]

Go sit as an honest observer of Squirt Tryouts - every session and tell me what you see?

I saw a handful of players that could skate really well. We didn't have any MM players competing for Squirt slots this year. But when those players come back they are going to shine compared to players that stayed in our associations Mite program.

Sure its fair to say some will catch up - no doubt. But those MM players will have the fundamentals ingrained which will allow them to move on to other aspects of the game.

I'd take early development in proper fundamentals any day all day in reading, spelling, mathematics, soccer or hockey. Really would anybody say 'no don't put my kid in the early reader program'?

[hockeyover40]

Dog, quite the contrary, I try to keep an open mind, and know there's more than one way to get to your desired goals. I agree with the let them have fun. I disagree that the game hasn't changed is 40 yrs. The players now days are bigger, quicker, and more skilled. And if you can't skate, your not going to be able to play at a high level. In some cases, high school. I also agree that kids can catch up, but I believe they need to have a solid foundation. If they don't get a solid foundation when starting out, their techniques will suffer. Doing things incorrectly for a long period of time makes it very hard to correct later on. Learning the correct way in the beginning, frees up time later to improve in other areas of the game, instead of spending time correcting bad techniques. A friend of mine with a son in the NHL once told me his son spent three years on the treadmill correcting a flaw in his skating. Old habits are hard to break. So, you can let the younger ones kick soccer balls, skate around all kinds of things strewn all over the ice, etc. but at some point during mites they should learn proper techniques and mechanics.

[dogeatdog1]

[My take... which I am sure that you don't want
1. they are Mites... let them have fun
2. The game hasn't changed that much in 40 years and the first 3-4 years of skating is just that have fun and experiment. Too much focus is being put on 5-7year old kids.
3. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO FALL BEHIND>>>>>Athelets will catch up to little MM johnny that skated 1000 a year for the first 4 yeas of his life. I have seen it happen many times...that is why I put this thread out for discussion andwas wondering where they were now...I forget what previious poster said it but I think that it holds true. You are not going to take a kid that will never be a star and make him one... You might make an average player a good one but there are many ways to skin a cat.

I do enjoy seeing the hockey people that seem to know what they are doing respond with some common sense to this thread and not changing it into a bash session. The Choice is there and as information gets out it might allow people to make informed decisions about whether or not to spend their $$ there.

The MM Mite program fosters the early development that say ADM does. And yes, they can fall behind if the kids are not in a productive association environment. MM provides this for those that aren't getting what they want from their association.

1. Who says MM isn't fun even if just a mite?
2. Depends on what the goal is? Have you read ADM and other studies. Yes the game has changed, have you watched old highlight reals? It's faster and they're better athletes.
3. Yes they will fall behind if you don't have good coaching and a good environment to foster their development. Yes kids do catch. A solid foundation that started at an early age certainly helps.

This is mainly common sense stuff.

My point that I was making when I started the thread is that you can't make a Superstar at 5-7 yeas old. Give me an athelete and a kid that has no atheletic ability . Put the non athelet in Choice and let the other play in association hockey the athelete is going to wipe the ice with the choice kid every time. The promise that a Hockey player is MADE is a marketing ploy to sell a dream. The common thing that I see coming out of all AAA is that it is becoming more watered down... more expensive... and the same amount of top end talent is coming out on the other end. I haven't seen a takeover at the squirt and peewee level that I thought I would. Now if you are a business man selling that dream it seems like it is a good ploy. As the consumer it is tougher and tougher to wade through the propaganda that is out there.. Today I looked at the threat for the Mavericks AAA program... funny the web site looks cool the promise of development looked great and they even have a Alumni section.. They were touting a 4th place finish in a local tourney as an accomplishment. We see stuff like this flooding the market place and everyone spend their hard earned $ on a dream? BRING YOUR KIDS TO THE OUT DOOR RINKS and take a vacation with the $$ you saved. If little Johnny is a superstar in phyed has atheletic abilities then the dream is possible. Be realistic in your expectations and take the marketing material for what it is worth. Short of that you will all be ok sticking with your association hockey and learning to skate.

[dogeatdog1]

Go sit as an honest observer of Squirt Tryouts - every session and tell me what you see?

I saw a handful of players that could skate really well. We didn't have any MM players competing for Squirt slots this year. But when those players come back they are going to shine compared to players that stayed in our associations Mite program.

Sure its fair to say some will catch up - no doubt. But those MM players will have the fundamentals ingrained which will allow them to move on to other aspects of the game.

I'd take early development in proper fundamentals any day all day in reading, spelling, mathematics, soccer or hockey. Really would anybody say 'no don't put my kid in the early reader program'?

Here is a proud dad talking My son started kindergarten without preschool or ealy reader program. Now is in 9th grade straight A's and has a great work ethic. Could it be that he did all this in a public school with parental support and some accountability on him the teachers and me as a parent.

Same goes with academics you cant send JR away and expect him to become a rocket surgeon without some ability.

[HockeyMom87]

Minnesota Made is by far the better atmosphere. Kids leave smiling. Kids are nice to each other. Parents are nice to each other. No politics. Just the opportunity to get away from the holier than thou attitude of association parents that bash MM is worth it. If MM wasn't good and wasn't making an impact - you wouldn't even started this thread. And - from what I've seen - Machine players are much more polite than Blades players so there has got to be something to that. I don't know if they got that way from playing at MM or MM just appeals to the more polite kids or parents that raise more polite kids. The kids are HAPPY at MM and they just get to play on a competitive team without parental whining. Why does MN Hockey have a rule that there needs to be two adults in the locker rooms? Because a small portion of the kids act like jerks! (And ruin it for others). How does an association hockey coach get a bad kid off there team? They are stuck with them. At MM - you act like a jerk and you are out. No jerks = happier kids = happier parents! MN Hockey should've made a rule how to ax the attitude kids instead park parents in the locker rooms. The problem with association hockey is that there usually are only a few really good kids at each level - and frequently they are the problem. The coach doesn't want to lose all season - so they tolerate crap from them. MM has a bigger pool of like talent to pick from - so losing one good player doesn't wreck their league. You can ax the bad seed and still be competitive. MM is worth every penny! You certainly can't argue your kids get worse training than at the association. Plus - Choice allows girls to skate. Look at the girls U10 ice schedules - certainly isn't comparing to the boys' ice time. Interesting that some girls beat out boys for the Squirt Choice positions. In association hockey - you'd have some boy parent whining that a girl "stole" their son's spot. If all you MM bashers put your energy into solving the issues at the association level - you'd do more damage to MM than ranting on here. Hating something so badly that you have no control over seems like a waste of energy. Identify the problems and fix them - don't carry such hate and judgment. Worst case - the kid goes to MM and comes back at the same level they would've been at had they stayed in the association. Best case - the association has a better hockey player. Rejoice that your association just got stronger upon their return! The kid is better and probably will stay longer. Maybe the better question is how many kids coming out of MM made a C team? I'll bet there are more making A teams than C teams and that fact speaks for itself.

[trippedovertheblueline]

Minnesota Made is by far the better atmosphere. Kids leave smiling. Kids are nice to each other. Parents are nice to each other. No politics. Just the opportunity to get away from the holier than thou attitude of association parents that bash MM is worth it. If MM wasn't good and wasn't making an impact - you wouldn't even started this thread. And - from what I've seen - Machine players are much more polite than Blades players so there has got to be something to that. I don't know if they got that way from playing at MM or MM just appeals to the more polite kids or parents that raise more polite kids. The kids are HAPPY at MM and they just get to play on a competitive team without parental whining. Why does MN Hockey have a rule that there needs to be two adults in the locker rooms? Because a small portion of the kids act like jerks! (And ruin it for others). How does an association hockey coach get a bad kid off there team? They are stuck with them. At MM - you act like a jerk and you are out. No jerks = happier kids = happier parents! MN Hockey should've made a rule how to ax the attitude kids instead park parents in the locker rooms. The problem with association hockey is that there usually are only a few really good kids at each level - and frequently they are the problem. The coach doesn't want to lose all season - so they tolerate crap from them. MM has a bigger pool of like talent to pick from - so losing one good player doesn't wreck their league. You can ax the bad seed and still be competitive. MM is worth every penny! You certainly can't argue your kids get worse training than at the association. Plus - Choice allows girls to skate. Look at the girls U10 ice schedules - certainly isn't comparing to the boys' ice time. Interesting that some girls beat out boys for the Squirt Choice positions. In association hockey - you'd have some boy parent whining that a girl "stole" their son's spot. If all you MM bashers put your energy into solving the issues at the association level - you'd do more damage to MM than ranting on here. Hating something so badly that you have no control over seems like a waste of energy. Identify the problems and fix them - don't carry such hate and judgment. Worst case - the kid goes to MM and comes back at the same level they would've been at had they stayed in the association. Best case - the association has a better hockey player. Rejoice that your association just got stronger upon their return! The kid is better and probably will stay longer. Maybe the better question is how many kids coming out of MM made a C team? I'll bet there are more making A teams than C teams and that fact speaks for itself.

Wait for it...............

[SECoach]

Minnesota Made is by far the better atmosphere. Kids leave smiling. Kids are nice to each other. Parents are nice to each other. No politics. Just the opportunity to get away from the holier than thou attitude of association parents that bash MM is worth it. If MM wasn't good and wasn't making an impact - you wouldn't even started this thread. And - from what I've seen - Machine players are much more polite than Blades players so there has got to be something to that. I don't know if they got that way from playing at MM or MM just appeals to the more polite kids or parents that raise more polite kids. The kids are HAPPY at MM and they just get to play on a competitive team without parental whining. Why does MN Hockey have a rule that there needs to be two adults in the locker rooms? Because a small portion of the kids act like jerks! (And ruin it for others). How does an association hockey coach get a bad kid off there team? They are stuck with them. At MM - you act like a jerk and you are out. No jerks = happier kids = happier parents! MN Hockey should've made a rule how to ax the attitude kids instead park parents in the locker rooms. The problem with association hockey is that there usually are only a few really good kids at each level - and frequently they are the problem. The coach doesn't want to lose all season - so they tolerate crap from them. MM has a bigger pool of like talent to pick from - so losing one good player doesn't wreck their league. You can ax the bad seed and still be competitive. MM is worth every penny! You certainly can't argue your kids get worse training than at the association. Plus - Choice allows girls to skate. Look at the girls U10 ice schedules - certainly isn't comparing to the boys' ice time. Interesting that some girls beat out boys for the Squirt Choice positions. In association hockey - you'd have some boy parent whining that a girl "stole" their son's spot. If all you MM bashers put your energy into solving the issues at the association level - you'd do more damage to MM than ranting on here. Hating something so badly that you have no control over seems like a waste of energy. Identify the problems and fix them - don't carry such hate and judgment. Worst case - the kid goes to MM and comes back at the same level they would've been at had they stayed in the association. Best case - the association has a better hockey player. Rejoice that your association just got stronger upon their return! The kid is better and probably will stay longer. Maybe the better question is how many kids coming out of MM made a C team? I'll bet there are more making A teams than C teams and that fact speaks for itself.

The locker room policy is from USA Hockey, which Minnesota Hockey is an affiliate of.

Ax the "bad seeds"......so someone else has them. Don't work with children, help them become better citizens, ax them. Make sure the "good seeds" grow up thinking that I will never have to deal with "bad seeds". We'll just ax them. Some have lost focus on the purpose of youth sports.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

Minnesota Made is by far the better atmosphere. Kids leave smiling. Kids are nice to each other. Parents are nice to each other. No politics. Just the opportunity to get away from the holier than thou attitude of association parents that bash MM is worth it. If MM wasn't good and wasn't making an impact - you wouldn't even started this thread. And - from what I've seen - Machine players are much more polite than Blades players so there has got to be something to that. I don't know if they got that way from playing at MM or MM just appeals to the more polite kids or parents that raise more polite kids. The kids are HAPPY at MM and they just get to play on a competitive team without parental whining. Why does MN Hockey have a rule that there needs to be two adults in the locker rooms? Because a small portion of the kids act like jerks! (And ruin it for others). How does an association hockey coach get a bad kid off there team? They are stuck with them. At MM - you act like a jerk and you are out. No jerks = happier kids = happier parents! MN Hockey should've made a rule how to ax the attitude kids instead park parents in the locker rooms. The problem with association hockey is that there usually are only a few really good kids at each level - and frequently they are the problem. The coach doesn't want to lose all season - so they tolerate crap from them. MM has a bigger pool of like talent to pick from - so losing one good player doesn't wreck their league. You can ax the bad seed and still be competitive. MM is worth every penny! You certainly can't argue your kids get worse training than at the association. Plus - Choice allows girls to skate. Look at the girls U10 ice schedules - certainly isn't comparing to the boys' ice time. Interesting that some girls beat out boys for the Squirt Choice positions. In association hockey - you'd have some boy parent whining that a girl "stole" their son's spot. If all you MM bashers put your energy into solving the issues at the association level - you'd do more damage to MM than ranting on here. Hating something so badly that you have no control over seems like a waste of energy. Identify the problems and fix them - don't carry such hate and judgment. Worst case - the kid goes to MM and comes back at the same level they would've been at had they stayed in the association. Best case - the association has a better hockey player. Rejoice that your association just got stronger upon their return! The kid is better and probably will stay longer. Maybe the better question is how many kids coming out of MM made a C team? I'll bet there are more making A teams than C teams and that fact speaks for itself.

Wait a minute ...why aren't you staying at your association to help improve it rather than running away to MM ?

probably too polite uh?

I don't have a problem with MM but sometimes the ego's on both sides are too funny.

[InigoMontoya]

Wait a minute ...why aren't you staying at your association to help improve it rather than running away to MM ?

Would be a good question for all the local association board members you bump into in the lobby.

[HockeyDad41]

Go sit as an honest observer of Squirt Tryouts - every session and tell me what you see?

I saw a handful of players that could skate really well. We didn't have any MM players competing for Squirt slots this year. But when those players come back they are going to shine compared to players that stayed in our associations Mite program.

Sure its fair to say some will catch up - no doubt. But those MM players will have the fundamentals ingrained which will allow them to move on to other aspects of the game.

I'd take early development in proper fundamentals any day all day in reading, spelling, mathematics, soccer or hockey. Really would anybody say 'no don't put my kid in the early reader program'?

Here is a proud dad talking My son started kindergarten without preschool or ealy reader program. Now is in 9th grade straight A's and has a great work ethic. Could it be that he did all this in a public school with parental support and some accountability on him the teachers and me as a parent.

Same goes with academics you cant send JR away and expect him to become a rocket surgeon without some ability.

Very solid. Good job dad.

[dogeatdog1]

Minnesota Made is by far the better atmosphere. Kids leave smiling. Kids are nice to each other. Parents are nice to each other. No politics. Just the opportunity to get away from the holier than thou attitude of association parents that bash MM is worth it. If MM wasn't good and wasn't making an impact - you wouldn't even started this thread. And - from what I've seen - Machine players are much more polite than Blades players so there has got to be something to that. I don't know if they got that way from playing at MM or MM just appeals to the more polite kids or parents that raise more polite kids. The kids are HAPPY at MM and they just get to play on a competitive team without parental whining. Why does MN Hockey have a rule that there needs to be two adults in the locker rooms? Because a small portion of the kids act like jerks! (And ruin it for others). How does an association hockey coach get a bad kid off there team? They are stuck with them. At MM - you act like a jerk and you are out. No jerks = happier kids = happier parents! MN Hockey should've made a rule how to ax the attitude kids instead park parents in the locker rooms. The problem with association hockey is that there usually are only a few really good kids at each level - and frequently they are the problem. The coach doesn't want to lose all season - so they tolerate crap from them. MM has a bigger pool of like talent to pick from - so losing one good player doesn't wreck their league. You can ax the bad seed and still be competitive. MM is worth every penny! You certainly can't argue your kids get worse training than at the association. Plus - Choice allows girls to skate. Look at the girls U10 ice schedules - certainly isn't comparing to the boys' ice time. Interesting that some girls beat out boys for the Squirt Choice positions. In association hockey - you'd have some boy parent whining that a girl "stole" their son's spot. If all you MM bashers put your energy into solving the issues at the association level - you'd do more damage to MM than ranting on here. Hating something so badly that you have no control over seems like a waste of energy. Identify the problems and fix them - don't carry such hate and judgment. Worst case - the kid goes to MM and comes back at the same level they would've been at had they stayed in the association. Best case - the association has a better hockey player. Rejoice that your association just got stronger upon their return! The kid is better and probably will stay longer. Maybe the better question is how many kids coming out of MM made a C team? I'll bet there are more making A teams than C teams and that fact speaks for itself.

I was going to stay away but I couldn't resist. It sounds like you are a marketing manager for he made. The kids are nicer.. the parents are great...the coolaide is the orangest it has ever been...If the Choice league was billed as a rec league you would have the C players lined up at the door. IT was not... It was sold as a way to turn your C player into an A player in one or two seasons. I was just trying to verify in this thread if it was living up to expectaions. As I see it they have not. You must not know many Machine and Blades Kids and parents as you can't imagine the culture that goes along with being involved in one of those teams. I will give you a glimpse. Machine= Tow the line or gonzo... wear a suit and act like you have been there before. if I am wrong then ask a couple of former Machine parents that either were cut or disgruntled and left. Plenty of those to be found from the 01's to the 96's... Most of the kids on the machine teams are good kids and parents for the most part get it..

Blades=one year commitment you cut the snuff you get asked back. (cut throat? Maybe but that is how you get the best AAA players on any team Machine or Blades) funny some of the kids on the team seem very talented and if the parents don't fit in the contract isn't extended into the next year. It' not rocket sceince and as the kids get older the Gap in talent narrows.

Both of these teams have issues so you are kidding yourself if you say that the Made is all peaches and cream... Both are taught to be humble as you could be on the outside looking in very quickly.

[HockeyMom87]

Regarding the above post about not just giving naughty kids the ax - good point in that sports should help them develope. You're absolutely correct. Associations just need better coaches sometimes because not all coaches are capable of this and associations can't police it.

Silent - maybe I have been on the board. The problem is that you get people that say one thing and do another. Few people really have the guts to stand up for what they think and are afraid of hurting their buddies' feelings.

Dog - your point that the Machine and Blades are not perfect is a good one - but that wasn't my point. Very few organizations are without their faults. There is no perfect institution. Notwithstanding that - this is about the Choice League. You cannot argue with my point that your child certainly isn't going to get worse training at MM - so who cares. If the parents want to spend the money (which is comparable to final costs at many associations) so be it. If your concern is that the associations are losing money - that isn't legitimate. You can still support your association in many ways. Most parents want their kids coming back to a strong association. In the long run - the association may be better off with more committed players. I haven't seen any C players coming out of MM and they clearly exist in associations. Nothing wrong with that - just that MM clearly appeals to a different player. They aren't all going to be A players because there aren't enough spots - but maybe it will increase the competiveness of ALL players. It doesn't have to be a win-lose scenario - it can be a win-win. I'm baffeled at why people are so hot about MM. I can't stand mini-vans - but I certainly don't hate the people that drive them or insult them - nor do I tell the ones driving Toyotas (which have great trade in values) that they are taking jobs from American workers. It is a choice - and they can still be intelligent good people and not be attacked for their choice. Isn't that what this really should be about? And no - I don't drive a Toyota - I'm a Chevy girl.

I'm anti-monopoly anything - and right now MN Hockey has a Monopoly and 80% of the parents don't even read the minutes of their meetings. They don't know what is going on. Competition makes everyone better. MM will make hockey better in MN - and I like hockey so I'll support it.

[dogeatdog1]

Regarding the above post about not just giving naughty kids the ax - good point in that sports should help them develope. You're absolutely correct. Associations just need better coaches sometimes because not all coaches are capable of this and associations can't police it.

Silent - maybe I have been on the board. The problem is that you get people that say one thing and do another. Few people really have the guts to stand up for what they think and are afraid of hurting their buddies' feelings.

Dog - your point that the Machine and Blades are not perfect is a good one - but that wasn't my point. Very few organizations are without their faults. There is no perfect institution. Notwithstanding that - this is about the Choice League. You cannot argue with my point that your child certainly isn't going to get worse training at MM - so who cares. If the parents want to spend the money (which is comparable to final costs at many associations) so be it. If your concern is that the associations are losing money - that isn't legitimate. You can still support your association in many ways. Most parents want their kids coming back to a strong association. In the long run - the association may be better off with more committed players. I haven't seen any C players coming out of MM and they clearly exist in associations. Nothing wrong with that - just that MM clearly appeals to a different player. They aren't all going to be A players because there aren't enough spots - but maybe it will increase the competiveness of ALL players. It doesn't have to be a win-lose scenario - it can be a win-win. I'm baffeled at why people are so hot about MM. I can't stand mini-vans - but I certainly don't hate the people that drive them or insult them - nor do I tell the ones driving Toyotas (which have great trade in values) that they are taking jobs from American workers. It is a choice - and they can still be intelligent good people and not be attacked for their choice. Isn't that what this really should be about? And no - I don't drive a Toyota - I'm a Chevy girl.

I'm anti-monopoly anything - and right now MN Hockey has a Monopoly and 80% of the parents don't even read the minutes of their meetings. They don't know what is going on. Competition makes everyone better. MM will make hockey better in MN - and I like hockey so I'll support it.

Let me get this straight because in reading your two posts I get the feeling that you are bouncing all over the place. Not a shot at you as I love women that bounce all over the place.
1. Associations need better coaches? Did the choice go out and hire Jaque Lamire Mike Ramsey and Scotty Bowman? I don't think so. They got dads some of which are solid coaches and others that I have heard are the same mediocre talent that would have ended up teaching their kids at the association and from what I hear there are issues with coaches at the made just like an association. Our assocaition has a development committee that polices coaches and I think they do a pretty good job recruiting and retaining good coaches. Some even coach at MM in the off season (if there is an off season)...
2. Your point about the machine kids being more polite took me off point on my post because I too thought that this post was about how the choice kids were doing when they came back to the associations. I didn't say and would never that kids won't get better with ice they will weather it is outdoor ice MM ice or skating on the pond behind their house. All i did when I posted this topic was asking if the Choice league was living up to its advertising. If you could dig up a brocure from the initial season the promise of making you kid an A caliber player was all over it. So your point of kids not being C players doesnt help pump up MM. (We did have a two year supporter of the Choice come back as a B2 ) But that is another topic.
3. Competition does make everyone better and I am sure that if you pour through my earlier posts on many topics I am all for competition I am just a consumer stating that if you are a Chevy don't sell yourself as a Bently or someone should be there to call you on it. Not eveyone can drive a Bently and not everyone can rise to play on the Machine or Blades. Just as you said don't hate the people that aspire to have a Bently in their garage they probably did one of two different things to get it. 1 worked their butt off or 2 daddy bought it for them. Too bad daddy can't buy their way on to a pro hockey team. Some would say that he can buy his way on to a AAA team....