Board Sense

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:54 am

To me the message is simple, an association becomes the people who run the association. If it is weak and allows a few people to “hi-jack” it and set their own personal agenda, it suffers. If the board fails to do the “hard work”, it fails. A board position regardless of title does not give an individual power so much as it gives them a job jar.

Failing to empty the jar because it is not easy means the board should find someone else. For those board members who try empty the jar and to do the right things for the kids. Congratulations. That is not an easy. But it means that your association should be more successful

Thank you, Fred, for offering a sensible approach...nay,a mission statement, for association hockey boards and district boards alike.

DMom · Post by **DMom** » Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:29 pm

And Thank you IM for giving Fred's statement a place to stand on it's own.

Benito Juarez · Post by **Benito Juarez** » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:19 pm

I thought this thread was about "Bored" sense....which is very limited around these parts.

hocmom · Post by **hocmom** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 8:57 am

On our small town board we had a hard time even finding people to serve.
The board is elected each spring at the annual meeting. Invites are sent to 150 families, 15 people show up.

Our bylaws say that board members must be elected by a certain percentage of the members of the organization, I don't think this has ever happened, not enough show up.

I assume this is true most places. Your local hockey board is up for grabs. Show up and run, bring 10 friends to vote for you, you are in.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:48 am

I assume this is true most places.

You know what that does to u+me.

There are associations where:
-the only names on the ballot are tapped by the board
-association by-laws are amended to keep individuals from being eligible to be on the ballot
-people that disagree with board policy at a board meeting are kicked out
-people that question decisions are banned
-new board members are threatened and warned to "fall in line" with the old boys
-rumors of gambling manager improprieties, involving board member spouses, are hush-hushed
-the coaching staff and the association are so intermingled that the membership is literally afraid to speak up
-board member progeny are laughably accellerated
-lies are told about subsidies to summer hockey programs
-alleged abuse is swept under the rug
-association board member ties to district people make the grievance process unusable
-knowlegable individuals in the community won't participate due to membership of the board and coach-in-chief
-businesses in the community won't participate with resources due to membership of the board and coach-in-chief

Most of these issues are not secrets in these communities. I would think that an attorney general's audit of these associations would result in the revocation of 501(c) status, and in some cases, criminal charges. Phrases like "the good ol' boys network" don't arise out of thin air, and they are not used in flattering ways. I agree with NPC, if Minnesota Hockey wants to preserve the local association set up, they're going to have to address the egregious combination of arrogance and ignorance that is causing much of the membership to flee.

scoreandscoreoften · Post by **scoreandscoreoften** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:55 am

Our association has had the same president and VP for the 6 years I've been there, and were there before I got involved. Who's jar you think they're emptying???

hockeydad7601 · Post by **hockeydad7601** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:35 pm

I am sure that there are boards out there that are corrupt and that there is the "good ol Boy" way of thinking, but I have also seen and been a part of boards that are totally opposite. Our association board is made up of parents of 3 A players, 3 B players, 3 C players, 2 girls , and a mite. The president is someone who has been in the association for many years and truly has the best interest of the kids in mind. Does he make mistakes, sure, we all do. Is everything always great, no. But people respect our process and policies and know they can be heard without retribution.

But it wasn't always like this. It took a few people to say enough is enough, and stand up to the old regime. It wasn't easy, in fact it got down right ugly, but there were a lot more good people than bad in the association and the membership voted the old regime out.

I find it interesting that so many people talk about corrupt associations, but then do nothing about it. Things can be done and changes can be made if you want to put the effort in.

Get involved, get the Mite parents involved (as they are going to be there the longest, and are not tainted yet), and make a difference.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:26 pm

I find it interesting that so many people talk about corrupt associations, but then do nothing about it. Things can be done and changes can be made if you want to put the effort in.

A failed coup leads to headless rebels.

The Wolfpack · Post by **The Wolfpack** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:00 pm

Those headless rebels can join the WolfPack. Join the Pack

hocmom · Post by **hocmom** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:51 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:
I find it interesting that so many people talk about corrupt associations, but then do nothing about it. Things can be done and changes can be made if you want to put the effort in.
A failed coup leads to headless rebels.

So the solution is to get these dirty scoundrels to change their tune? Will that work?

Cause if that won't work and others won't run...what then?

hockeydad7601 · Post by **hockeydad7601** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 3:01 pm

So the solution is to get these dirty scoundrels to change their tune? Will that work?

Cause if that won't work and others won't run...what then?

If others won't run, then aren't you just part of the problem? It does take work, and it isn't easy, but there were many people in our association who thought their kid's well being was worth it. We had almost 1/2 of our membership at our last Presidential election. And the old regime is gone! People want to know that the board is looking out for all the kids, not the chosen few. Find the right people and you will be successful.

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:28 pm

No Political Connections wrote:
hockeydad7601 wrote:So the solution is to get these dirty scoundrels to change their tune? Will that work?

Cause if that won't work and others won't run...what then?

If others won't run, then aren't you just part of the problem? It does take work, and it isn't easy, but there were many people in our association who thought their kid's well being was worth it. We had almost 1/2 of our membership at our last Presidential election. And the old regime is gone! People want to know that the board is looking out for all the kids, not the chosen few. Find the right people and you will be successful.

The only way to really fix it is going to be to allow open transfers between associations with no penalties to the transferring players. That will in effect turn the associations into competitors for the players which should clean them up. If a player/family has the ability to transfer to another association to play hockey the potentially losing association will clean up it's act in an attempt to retain the players and the potentially gaining association will clean up their act in an attempt to gain players. Coaching will get better, parent concerns will get addressed, transparency will be injected into the try out system and etc.

Of course since the same people who are running the associations are also running MN Hockey that has no chance of happening. Something like a drastic drop in the numbers, associations losing their non-profit status and things like that are the only real way to enact the change and that is going to be a painful process for the kids who will be caught up in it.

That's a really bad idea. It would wreck winter hockey. Just my opinion.

hocmom · Post by **hocmom** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:46 am

No Political... What do you find the most disatisfying? What needs the most fixing? You seem really disgruntled. What is your goal?

As to the idea of associations competing for players, our board has kind of changed gears on that, not much resistance to signing waivers, and they don't get many. If you don't want to play here, we probably don't want you around. Forcing people to play here is not a good idea.

observer · Post by **observer** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:15 am

Think globally, act locally is the axiom that pertains.

Get involved people. What can you do in your immediate neighborhood to assist your local youth hockey association?

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:31 am

observer wrote:Think globally, act locally is the axiom that pertains.

Get involved people. What can you do in your immediate neighborhood to assist your local youth hockey association?

Great post!

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 1:27 pm

HockeyDad41 wrote:
observer wrote:Think globally, act locally is the axiom that pertains.

Get involved people. What can you do in your immediate neighborhood to assist your local youth hockey association?
Great post!

I guess I miss the part where dragging your kid to MM is helping your local youth hockey association. But thank you for your affirmation of this "if you don't like it, then do something about it" post.

Let's use a pretty extreme example: If a parent files a grievance with the association board regarding alleged abuse to a kid, and the board members that receive the letter do not share it with anyone else on the board but tell the parent that there is conflicting information, what is the parent to do? Run for a board position next fall? Look in his immediate neighborhood for opportunities to assist?

hocmom · Post by **hocmom** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:18 pm

Let's use a pretty extreme example: If a parent files a grievance with the association board regarding alleged abuse to a kid, and the board members that receive the letter do not share it with anyone else on the board but tell the parent that there is conflicting information, what is the parent to do? Run for a board position next fall? Look in his immediate neighborhood for opportunities to assist?

Call the police?

observer · Post by **observer** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 2:30 pm

My point is, we have all these big picture thinkers and no one willing to walk around the block and recruit six 6 year olds.

silentbutdeadly3139 · Post by **silentbutdeadly3139** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:05 pm

observer wrote:My point is, we have all these big picture thinkers and no one willing to walk around the block and recruit six 6 year olds.

Make sure the 6 kids are not children of friends. Could resent you for recruiting them into a disfunctional mess or you may lose a friend or 2

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 5:23 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:
HockeyDad41 wrote:
observer wrote:Think globally, act locally is the axiom that pertains.

Get involved people. What can you do in your immediate neighborhood to assist your local youth hockey association?
Great post!
I guess I miss the part where dragging your kid to MM is helping your local youth hockey association. But thank you for your affirmation of this "if you don't like it, then do something about it" post.

If you are implying that I have abandoned my association because my kid skates at MM then you are mistaken. I am still active in my association. Why wouldn't I be? I still work to recruit retain and develop the kids in our association. My kid is only going to be off his association team for 1 season.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 8:12 pm

Untill Bernie tells you, and your kid " YOU CAN NEVER LEAVE".

dogeatdog1 · Post by **dogeatdog1** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:19 pm

HockeyDad41 wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote:
HockeyDad41 wrote: Great post!
I guess I miss the part where dragging your kid to MM is helping your local youth hockey association. But thank you for your affirmation of this "if you don't like it, then do something about it" post.
If you are implying that I have abandoned my association because my kid skates at MM then you are mistaken. I am still active in my association. Why wouldn't I be? I still work to recruit retain and develop the kids in our association. My kid is only going to be off his association team for 1 season.

Riddle me this HD? I have two kids one that goes away for a year or two and drinks at the Made decides to come back in Peewees ( call him little Bernie) and you have little Johnnie that sticks it out plays B squirts and then as a bubble makes A squirts in the association. Come tryouts for first year peewees the coach has a "Choice" between lil Bernie and lil Johnie because they are both bubble A Peewees neither one locks on the team during tryouts. 1. Who gets picked- the kid that stuck it out and played for the bad Squirt A team or the kid that went away to improve his skills and came back with the promise?.. I have coached for a long time and I guarantee the answer to that. Is it fair? ABSOLUTELY!!! Does politics play a role in every day of your life? Yes politics plays a role get used to it and if you really think that you can walk away from an assocaition with no repercussions make sure that when you come back you are VERY good so the coach doesn't have to make a tough decision. There isn't a coach out there that will make his team worse by not picking a kid but if it is an even match the loyal one gets the nod.

I actually applaude you if you truely are involved in your association while your kid is at the Made. Good for you as we can all use more players. I don't, however, know how you would have the time with all the recruiting you are doing for MM.

Ugottobekiddingme · Post by **Ugottobekiddingme** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:00 pm

Jusss a little bit outside...and totally off topic. What does MM have to do with association board sense corruption? Try a different thread and lets peel back what IM is clearly discussing towards offering associations the ability to clean up what many find disgusting within youth hockey. I called the police and they confirmed that Hocmom is very elusive....and after 9 years out of touch with common reality.

HockeyDad41 · Post by **HockeyDad41** » Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:06 pm

dogeatdog1 wrote:
HockeyDad41 wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote: I guess I miss the part where dragging your kid to MM is helping your local youth hockey association. But thank you for your affirmation of this "if you don't like it, then do something about it" post.
If you are implying that I have abandoned my association because my kid skates at MM then you are mistaken. I am still active in my association. Why wouldn't I be? I still work to recruit retain and develop the kids in our association. My kid is only going to be off his association team for 1 season.

Riddle me this HD? I have two kids one that goes away for a year or two and drinks at the Made decides to come back in Peewees ( call him little Bernie) and you have little Johnnie that sticks it out plays B squirts and then as a bubble makes A squirts in the association. Come tryouts for first year peewees the coach has a "Choice" between lil Bernie and lil Johnie because they are both bubble A Peewees neither one locks on the team during tryouts. 1. Who gets picked- the kid that stuck it out and played for the bad Squirt A team or the kid that went away to improve his skills and came back with the promise?.. I have coached for a long time and I guarantee the answer to that. Is it fair? ABSOLUTELY!!! Does politics play a role in every day of your life? Yes politics plays a role get used to it and if you really think that you can walk away from an assocaition with no repercussions make sure that when you come back you are VERY good so the coach doesn't have to make a tough decision. There isn't a coach out there that will make his team worse by not picking a kid but if it is an even match the loyal one gets the nod.

I actually applaude you if you truely are involved in your association while your kid is at the Made. Good for you as we can all use more players. I don't, however, know how you would have the time with all the recruiting you are doing for MM.

I think your assessment for that scenario is pretty much exactly right. All things being equal, the skater that stayed at the association will get the nod. That's the way it should be. I am not naive.

I'm really not sure why you think I am a MM recruiter. True I like how my skaters development is going there, but aside from one other guy in my association who brought his kid to a summer clinic there, no one else really even knows about MM and I don't bring it up when I am at the rink.

hocmom · Post by **hocmom** » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:13 am

Ugottobekiddingme wrote:Jusss a little bit outside...and totally off topic. What does MM have to do with association board sense corruption? Try a different thread and lets peel back what IM is clearly discussing towards offering associations the ability to clean up what many find disgusting within youth hockey. I called the police and they confirmed that Hocmom is very elusive....and after 9 years out of touch with common reality.

Maybe you have spelled this out in the past, lots of posts...If you have I apologize. It appears that you have concerns about Assn boards in general. What are you top few concerns and what do you suggest as a solution?