District 6 New Rule involving playing hockey only with Dist

Discussion of Minnesota Youth Hockey

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ThePuckStopsHere
Posts: 418
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:09 pm

Post by ThePuckStopsHere »

the_juiceman wrote:
SnowedIn wrote:NP ARTICLE:
According to the court file, the new rule says that a registered player "may not register or play hockey with any other organization, association or team during the winter hockey season, including playoffs." The district later clarified that the rule applied only to league play. Possible penalties included suspension for the rest of the season.

Brad Hewitt, District 6 director, said the new rule was passed to protect the roughly 5,800 girls and boys who play hockey in his district's program.

"We're defending the right of all kids," he said. "We're nonprofit ... (McBain) is for-profit, and he's in it for the money."





__________________________________________________

---"The district later clarified that the rule applied only to league play." Oops don't want to step on everyone's toes. Could imagine the backlash that came into his office from a multitude of hockey businesses when the rule came out. Next time be a bit more careful. Nobody probably read it over before BH released it.

---The district is protecting the boys and girls. Wow thanks BH, we parents have no idea how to do that. You are so generous to be waving your wand around and saving our lost and nimble souls.

---"We are defending the rights of the kids." What does that mean? What rights? BH, you are taking away kids and parents ability to make their own decisions. We see that very clearly. What rights are you defending? The right not to have the option to choose to develop in a superior training model if we want to. That's it. You are defending our RIGHT NOT TO DO SOMETHING. Confusing but I think I get it.

---"We're Not for Profit". And therefore we are qualified to make decisions for each and everyone of you. It's a long standing precedent that NFP organizations have sweeping powers that include making decisions for parents and their families. Right?

Isn't each one of us "For Profit"? We are trying to make ends meet and make a better life for us and our kids. We want more for our families, not less. That makes us for profit. Does that make us unqualified to make decisions. Our country operates under a for profit model and a large part of our decisions are made under this model and it seems to be working just fine. Communist countries don't fare very well with their not for profit models in which they make decisions for their people. That is probably the most ridiculous argument of the bunch. Next to "defending your kids rights".

Each one of D6s arguments is a real stretch that the high priced D6 lawyers developed for their client. Ridiculous as they may seem, they justify the bill that D6 will pay them.

Using words like protection and defending makes one sound like the white knight, but anyone with a 1/4 brain can see how silly these arguments are.

The best quote in the article that says it all, is from a parent: "I think parents know their kids," he said. "They should be able to make these decisions on their own."

Well Duhhha! But not according to BH and D6. They must step in and make the decision for you and your kid and your neighbor's kid...Why? Because big brother knows best and hey they're Not For Profit which makes them qualified to do so.

For profit parents have been known to make very wise decisions for their kids. Really!
where does it imply that BH thinks that parents don't know how to protect their kids? you're reading way to much into it. Why do you assume he as a hiden agenda? (you now what happens when you assume) seems to me he's giving you exactly what you want--the right to choose--MM or Dist 6--make a choice. why all the distrust towards non-profit?----oh, buy the way-- Communist? really!? :roll: talk about going off the deep end!!
All this over a bunch of pre-teen hockey players :roll:
SnowedIn
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:56 am

Post by SnowedIn »

No Political Connections wrote:
ThePuckStopsHere wrote:
the_juiceman wrote: where does it imply that BH thinks that parents don't know how to protect their kids? you're reading way to much into it. Why do you assume he as a hiden agenda? (you now what happens when you assume) seems to me he's giving you exactly what you want--the right to choose--MM or Dist 6--make a choice. why all the distrust towards non-profit?----oh, buy the way-- Communist? really!? :roll: talk about going off the deep end!!
All this over a bunch of pre-teen hockey players :roll:
Ha, not a chance. This is about money and power. I think that most of the power brokers involved enjoy the power broking way more than they like the hockey.


"We're defending the right of all kids," BH said.

Can anyone try to explain what rights BH is talking about?
hockeyover40
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:04 pm

Post by hockeyover40 »

If he was defending the rights of all kids, he would be defending their right to make their own choice.
hockey_is_a_choice
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:48 am

Post by hockey_is_a_choice »

Until recently the law of the land in Minnesota Hockey was that parents had the right to choose to sign their child up for any private program they wanted to and have their child participate in association hockey, as long as the child was not registered to play on two MH/USA sanctioned teams at the same time. Why did Minnesota Hockey and District 6 choose to become officious intermeddlers and change this practice?

Do District 6 and Minnesota Hockey really believe they are in a better position to protect children from burning out on too much hockey, letting down their association teammates, or being injured in other hockey programs than the child’s parents?

Last time I checked, I did not abdicate my parenting responsibilities to Minnesota Hockey, district officials, my association, my association board, my son’s coaches, or the parents of my son’s teammates, even though some of them seem to believe they are entitled to tell other people how to raise their kids—and spend their money—by limiting choices that have always been available, until recently.

Why do elected officials or, in this case, some appointed officials, believe they have the right to suddenly change the rule and limit my ability to choose where and when to sign my child up for a privately managed hockey program?

Apparently, certain MinnHock officials now want to expand their mission to defend the rights of all children. Give me a break.

Under this new restrictive regulation, which will likely be the new law of the land in the People’s Republic of Minnesota Hockey, my child will have to pick between participating in Minnesota Hockey’s program and another program offered by a competing for-profit company. Why?

Why is my freedom to choose both options being taken away from me?

Admittedly, I’m a Libertarian and I believe my individual right to choose to have my son participate in both programs should trump Minnesota Hockey’s desire to protect its turf. Some people disagree with me, but I firmly believe this lawsuit is about Minnesota Hockey protecting its revenue stream. It’s also about BM protecting his revenue stream. In a nutshell, we are witnessing a classic commercial litigation dispute between entities that want to protect their businesses. There’s nothing wrong with that, but, as a nonprofit and a monopoly, Minnesota Hockey must play fair and it must be honest about its reasons for changing the status quo and adopting a rule that violates Minnesota Hockey’s core mission—to promote hockey in the State of Minnesota.

Let’s look at the nonprofit versus for-profit issue since Mr. Hewitt raised it in his public comments to reporters. Minnesota Hockey, District 6, and its associations are all nonprofit companies, specifically they are 501(c)(3) legal entities. MM is a for–profit corporation. As nonprofit corporations, Minnesota Hockey, District 6, and its associations are a tax exempt organization, which means they do not pay most income taxes. In short, nonprofits ride on taxpayers’ coattails because they are supposed to be providing valuable public services. For profit corporations, on the other hand, can provide the same service for a fee and a profit, but they have to pay taxes on any profit.

Minnesota Hockey has approximately $1M in the bank, see Minnesota Attorney General’s 2009 report on Minnesota Hockey, Inc., set forth below and available on line and the September 2010 Minnesota Hockey Board meeting minutes. As you can see from the report, Minnesota Hockey pays permanent staff approximately $236,000 to manage and grow the business. Yes, for the record, Minnesota Hockey is a business, just like MM and other private hockey programs are businesses. However, because it chose to go the nonprofit route to avoid paying taxes, Minnesota Hockey must strictly follow its stated purpose, which is set forth below.

Nowhere in Minnesota Hockey’s stated purpose is it authorized to discourage athletes from participating in private hockey programs by excluding athletes from Minnesota Hockey sanctioned programs if they choose at the same time to supplement that experience and improve their skills by also skating in what is ultimately a developmental program/league run by a private company. Ultimately, Minnesota Hockey’s purpose is to create and promote interest in youth or amateur hockey in Minnesota. In my opinion, forcing parents and athletes to choose—and declaring publicly that your new mission is to protect all the children [from the evil empire and their clueless parents]--is not creating interest in youth hockey. It’s telling prospective hockey parents to stay away from youth hockey because it is too political and the people associated with managing it have run amok.

2009 Report For Minnesota Hockey On File At the Attorney General's Office
Organization Name MINNESOTA HOCKEY, INC.
Organization Type CHARITY

Address 317 WASHINGTON ST
City ST PAUL
State MN
Zip Code 55102
IRS Code 501(c) 03
Purpose or Description To encourage and improve the standard of youth and other amateur ice hockey in the Minnesota area; to conduct ice hockey tournaments and to select representative teams to participate in tournaments; to associate with other ice hockey associations: to do any and all acts necessary or desirable in the furtherance of the foregoing purposes; to buy, sell, lease and otherwise deal in all kinds of property, real, personal and mixed, for the purpose of creating further interest in youth and other amateur hockey.

Status ACTIVE

Organization Name MINNESOTA HOCKEY, INC.
Federal ID# 411458420
For Fiscal Year Ending 8/31/2009
Income
Direct Public Support $124,637
Government Grants $47,325
Other Revenue $1,169,182
Total Revenue $1,341,144

Expenses
Amount Spent for Program or Charitable Purposes $1,019,329
Management/General Expense $236,761
Fundraising Expense $11,408
Total Expenses $1,267,498

Excess/Deficit $73,646
Total Assets $805,435
Total Liabilities $2,900
End of Year Fund Bal/Net Worth $802,535
High Off The Glass
Posts: 188
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 9:50 am

Post by High Off The Glass »

hockey_is_a_choice wrote:Until recently the law of the land in Minnesota Hockey was that parents had the right to choose to sign their child up for any private program they wanted to and have their child participate in association hockey, as long as the child was not registered to play on two MH/USA sanctioned teams at the same time. Why did Minnesota Hockey and District 6 choose to become officious intermeddlers and change this practice?

Do District 6 and Minnesota Hockey really believe they are in a better position to protect children from burning out on too much hockey, letting down their association teammates, or being injured in other hockey programs than the child’s parents?

Last time I checked, I did not abdicate my parenting responsibilities to Minnesota Hockey, district officials, my association, my association board, my son’s coaches, or the parents of my son’s teammates, even though some of them seem to believe they are entitled to tell other people how to raise their kids—and spend their money—by limiting choices that have always been available, until recently.

Why do elected officials or, in this case, some appointed officials, believe they have the right to suddenly change the rule and limit my ability to choose where and when to sign my child up for a privately managed hockey program?

Apparently, certain MinnHock officials now want to expand their mission to defend the rights of all children. Give me a break.

Under this new restrictive regulation, which will likely be the new law of the land in the People’s Republic of Minnesota Hockey, my child will have to pick between participating in Minnesota Hockey’s program and another program offered by a competing for-profit company. Why?

Why is my freedom to choose both options being taken away from me?
Admittedly, I’m a Libertarian
and I believe my individual right to choose to have my son participate in both programs should trump Minnesota Hockey’s desire to protect its turf. Some people disagree with me, but I firmly believe this lawsuit is about Minnesota Hockey protecting its revenue stream. It’s also about BM protecting his revenue stream. In a nutshell, we are witnessing a classic commercial litigation dispute between entities that want to protect their businesses. There’s nothing wrong with that, but, as a nonprofit and a monopoly, Minnesota Hockey must play fair and it must be honest about its reasons for changing the status quo and adopting a rule that violates Minnesota Hockey’s core mission—to promote hockey in the State of Minnesota.

Let’s look at the nonprofit versus for-profit issue since Mr. Hewitt raised it in his public comments to reporters. Minnesota Hockey, District 6, and its associations are all nonprofit companies, specifically they are 501(c)(3) legal entities. MM is a for–profit corporation. As nonprofit corporations, Minnesota Hockey, District 6, and its associations are a tax exempt organization, which means they do not pay most income taxes. In short, nonprofits ride on taxpayers’ coattails because they are supposed to be providing valuable public services. For profit corporations, on the other hand, can provide the same service for a fee and a profit, but they have to pay taxes on any profit.

Minnesota Hockey has approximately $1M in the bank, see Minnesota Attorney General’s 2009 report on Minnesota Hockey, Inc., set forth below and available on line and the September 2010 Minnesota Hockey Board meeting minutes. As you can see from the report, Minnesota Hockey pays permanent staff approximately $236,000 to manage and grow the business. Yes, for the record, Minnesota Hockey is a business, just like MM and other private hockey programs are businesses. However, because it chose to go the nonprofit route to avoid paying taxes, Minnesota Hockey must strictly follow its stated purpose, which is set forth below.

Nowhere in Minnesota Hockey’s stated purpose is it authorized to discourage athletes from participating in private hockey programs by excluding athletes from Minnesota Hockey sanctioned programs if they choose at the same time to supplement that experience and improve their skills by also skating in what is ultimately a developmental program/league run by a private company. Ultimately, Minnesota Hockey’s purpose is to create and promote interest in youth or amateur hockey in Minnesota. In my opinion, forcing parents and athletes to choose—and declaring publicly that your new mission is to protect all the children [from the evil empire and their clueless parents]--is not creating interest in youth hockey. It’s telling prospective hockey parents to stay away from youth hockey because it is too political and the people associated with managing it have run amok.

2009 Report For Minnesota Hockey On File At the Attorney General's Office
Organization Name MINNESOTA HOCKEY, INC.
Organization Type CHARITY

Address 317 WASHINGTON ST
City ST PAUL
State MN
Zip Code 55102
IRS Code 501(c) 03
Purpose or Description To encourage and improve the standard of youth and other amateur ice hockey in the Minnesota area; to conduct ice hockey tournaments and to select representative teams to participate in tournaments; to associate with other ice hockey associations: to do any and all acts necessary or desirable in the furtherance of the foregoing purposes; to buy, sell, lease and otherwise deal in all kinds of property, real, personal and mixed, for the purpose of creating further interest in youth and other amateur hockey.

Status ACTIVE

Organization Name MINNESOTA HOCKEY, INC.
Federal ID# 411458420
For Fiscal Year Ending 8/31/2009
Income
Direct Public Support $124,637
Government Grants $47,325
Other Revenue $1,169,182
Total Revenue $1,341,144

Expenses
Amount Spent for Program or Charitable Purposes $1,019,329
Management/General Expense $236,761
Fundraising Expense $11,408
Total Expenses $1,267,498

Excess/Deficit $73,646
Total Assets $805,435
Total Liabilities $2,900
End of Year Fund Bal/Net Worth $802,535
:roll:
warmskin
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:49 am

Post by warmskin »

They should make this a reality show to defer costs to both parties.
SnowedIn
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:56 am

Post by SnowedIn »

SnowedIn wrote:
No Political Connections wrote:
ThePuckStopsHere wrote: All this over a bunch of pre-teen hockey players :roll:
Ha, not a chance. This is about money and power. I think that most of the power brokers involved enjoy the power broking way more than they like the hockey.


"We're defending the right of all kids," BH said.

Can anyone try to explain what rights BH is talking about?



So the response from the BH supporters is: Wait for it.....Wait:
NO RESPONSE.
MN_Hcky_Coach
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:31 am
Location: Minnesota

Post by MN_Hcky_Coach »

After reading through this entire subject, I am so glad that none of you crazy, over reactive, unrealistic people did not raise me, because I may not have been pushed to grow up as a kid, not a super athlete (even with a highschool, junior and college hockey career behind me) and perhaps would not have gone to grad school where we learned to read and comprehend what we were reading. District 6 is giving a choice to parents, they also give you the choice to come back, not sure if previous posters could have laid it out any simpler for you pot stirrers. Remember that when an association loses members it hurts, every association in the state is working as hard as possible to recruit and maintain membership. BM has a right to protest in court and spend your money doing so, let’s just see what happens, but this is in no way the end of association hockey in MN.

Thinking that the choice is to skate in both if you wish is completely unrealistic in life. I’m sorry but I’ve never met anyone that could have it all. District 6 is part of MN hockey that governs a formal hockey league, they can tell anyone they cannot play for their league. Just because they are nonprofit doesn’t mean they cannot turn away people. Student exchange nonprofits turn people away that want to host exchange students every year because they fail background checks, there is no law that says a nonprofit has to include everyone.

What many of you do not realize is that those of us who have spent upwards of 30 years in the game of hockey laugh at all of you. Yes, we point at you at the rink and laugh because you are the people that do not understand what is really going on. You are the people complaining that tryouts are flawed, you are the people complaining about ice time, you are the ones cornering coaches in the lobby, we laugh at you because you think you know, but you have no idea.

I will say my assumptions do not apply to everyone but those of you that might challenge my thoughts should think about whether you are laughing at parents like this or you are the one being laughed at…hockey community you all know what I am talking about.
Penalty Box
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 10:58 pm

Post by Penalty Box »

MN_Hcky_Coach wrote:What many of you do not realize is that those of us who have spent upwards of 30 years in the game of hockey laugh at all of you. Yes, we point at you at the rink and laugh because you are the people that do not understand what is really going on. You are the people complaining that tryouts are flawed, you are the people complaining about ice time, you are the ones cornering coaches in the lobby, we laugh at you because you think you now, but you have no idea.
I'm guessing somewhere there is someone who laughed at you for the exact same reasons during your apparently perfect and prestigious 30 years in the game. You and your superior attitude should climb down from your high horse. Who are you to belittle what other people think is important? I don't even have a kid in D6 and your attitude offends me. Sure, there are some less than legitimate complaints on some of the topics you referenced, but if they are important to the person taking issue, you don't get to judge that. Are we to believe you never once stirred the pot or had a dog in the fight "30 years" ago? As if.
hotsauce
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:02 am

Post by hotsauce »

Penalty Box wrote:
MN_Hcky_Coach wrote:What many of you do not realize is that those of us who have spent upwards of 30 years in the game of hockey laugh at all of you. Yes, we point at you at the rink and laugh because you are the people that do not understand what is really going on. You are the people complaining that tryouts are flawed, you are the people complaining about ice time, you are the ones cornering coaches in the lobby, we laugh at you because you think you now, but you have no idea.
I'm guessing somewhere there is someone who laughed at you for the exact same reasons during your apparently perfect and prestigious 30 years in the game. You and your superior attitude should climb down from your high horse. Who are you to belittle what other people think is important? I don't even have a kid in D6 and your attitude offends me. Sure, there are some less than legitimate complaints on some of the topics you referenced, but if they are important to the person taking issue, you don't get to judge that. Are we to believe you never once stirred the pot or had a dog in the fight "30 years" ago? As if.
EXACTLY!! I couldn't have said it better myself. I wonder if it's hard to find time for mhc to post on here with the busy schedule of patting himself on the back and looking down on the "uneducated common folk."

mhc, you come across extremely arrogant and argue opinions as if they are facts. In my far from perfect 30+ years I have noticed those that portray themselves as " a great coach, former player, and all around person" are far from it.
silentbutdeadly3139
Posts: 475
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 3:50 pm

Post by silentbutdeadly3139 »

Penalty Box wrote:
MN_Hcky_Coach wrote:What many of you do not realize is that those of us who have spent upwards of 30 years in the game of hockey laugh at all of you. Yes, we point at you at the rink and laugh because you are the people that do not understand what is really going on. You are the people complaining that tryouts are flawed, you are the people complaining about ice time, you are the ones cornering coaches in the lobby, we laugh at you because you think you now, but you have no idea.
I'm guessing somewhere there is someone who laughed at you for the exact same reasons during your apparently perfect and prestigious 30 years in the game. You and your superior attitude should climb down from your high horse. Who are you to belittle what other people think is important? I don't even have a kid in D6 and your attitude offends me. Sure, there are some less than legitimate complaints on some of the topics you referenced, but if they are important to the person taking issue, you don't get to judge that. Are we to believe you never once stirred the pot or had a dog in the fight "30 years" ago? As if.
Not surprised by MN_Hcky_Coach condescending attitude. He will even blogs and tweets his condescending, all knowing attitude. If you want to laugh at someone ... read his blog and laugh at him :roll:
GreatOne99
Posts: 83
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:10 pm

Post by GreatOne99 »

MN_Hcky_Coach wrote:After reading through this entire subject, I am so glad that none of you crazy, over reactive, unrealistic people did not raise me, because I may not have been pushed to grow up as a kid, not a super athlete (even with a highschool, junior and college hockey career behind me) and perhaps would not have gone to grad school where we learned to read and comprehend what we were reading. District 6 is giving a choice to parents, they also give you the choice to come back, not sure if previous posters could have laid it out any simpler for you pot stirrers. Remember that when an association loses members it hurts, every association in the state is working as hard as possible to recruit and maintain membership. BM has a right to protest in court and spend your money doing so, let’s just see what happens, but this is in no way the end of association hockey in MN.

Thinking that the choice is to skate in both if you wish is completely unrealistic in life. I’m sorry but I’ve never met anyone that could have it all. District 6 is part of MN hockey that governs a formal hockey league, they can tell anyone they cannot play for their league. Just because they are nonprofit doesn’t mean they cannot turn away people. Student exchange nonprofits turn people away that want to host exchange students every year because they fail background checks, there is no law that says a nonprofit has to include everyone.
What many of you do not realize is that those of us who have spent upwards of 30 years in the game of hockey laugh at all of you. Yes, we point at you at the rink and laugh because you are the people that do not understand what is really going on. You are the people complaining that tryouts are flawed, you are the people complaining about ice time, you are the ones cornering coaches in the lobby, we laugh at you because you think you know, but you have no idea.
I will say my assumptions do not apply to everyone but those of you that might challenge my thoughts should think about whether you are laughing at parents like this or you are the one being laughed at…hockey community you all know what I am talking about.
Many of us who also have spent 30 years in the game laugh at guys like you who say they spent so many years in the game and you still don't understand and stand in the corner of the rink, by themselves, because you won't mingle with us common folk. While I agree with your points about the D6 and MM debacle, your condesending attitude gives all of us "30 year" hockey fools a bad name. Trust me, I've met plenty of guys like you who point fingers at parents because they complain, but when something doesn't go your way, you're the loudest in the room. Get over yourself and go back to your corner of the rink, alone.
SnowedIn
Posts: 153
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:56 am

Post by SnowedIn »

GreatOne99 wrote:
MN_Hcky_Coach wrote:After reading through this entire subject, I am so glad that none of you crazy, over reactive, unrealistic people did not raise me, because I may not have been pushed to grow up as a kid, not a super athlete (even with a highschool, junior and college hockey career behind me) and perhaps would not have gone to grad school where we learned to read and comprehend what we were reading. District 6 is giving a choice to parents, they also give you the choice to come back, not sure if previous posters could have laid it out any simpler for you pot stirrers. Remember that when an association loses members it hurts, every association in the state is working as hard as possible to recruit and maintain membership. BM has a right to protest in court and spend your money doing so, let’s just see what happens, but this is in no way the end of association hockey in MN.

Thinking that the choice is to skate in both if you wish is completely unrealistic in life. I’m sorry but I’ve never met anyone that could have it all. District 6 is part of MN hockey that governs a formal hockey league, they can tell anyone they cannot play for their league. Just because they are nonprofit doesn’t mean they cannot turn away people. Student exchange nonprofits turn people away that want to host exchange students every year because they fail background checks, there is no law that says a nonprofit has to include everyone.
What many of you do not realize is that those of us who have spent upwards of 30 years in the game of hockey laugh at all of you. Yes, we point at you at the rink and laugh because you are the people that do not understand what is really going on. You are the people complaining that tryouts are flawed, you are the people complaining about ice time, you are the ones cornering coaches in the lobby, we laugh at you because you think you know, but you have no idea.
I will say my assumptions do not apply to everyone but those of you that might challenge my thoughts should think about whether you are laughing at parents like this or you are the one being laughed at…hockey community you all know what I am talking about.
Many of us who also have spent 30 years in the game laugh at guys like you who say they spent so many years in the game and you still don't understand and stand in the corner of the rink, by themselves, because you won't mingle with us common folk. While I agree with your points about the D6 and MM debacle, your condesending attitude gives all of us "30 year" hockey fools a bad name. Trust me, I've met plenty of guys like you who point fingers at parents because they complain, but when something doesn't go your way, you're the loudest in the room. Get over yourself and go back to your corner of the rink, alone.


Yes Great One. We may not see eye to eye on the subject matter but I couldn't have said it better about MNH coach.

There are so many good coaches in MN and so many bad ones. MN Hockey is great because of the participation and sheer numbers of kids going out for the sport. Not necessarily because it has the best training philosophies. Great players will come out of this state in spite of the coaching because diamonds in the rough and hard working players will shine. Many coaches are tops and the kids get great training while many others are not and the kids suffer.

For many this debate is just as much about this subject as it is about the other points made. The people that go to MM know that they are getting very good coaching and the opportunity to develop more. If they didn't they wouldn't do it. They may not get good coaching in their association, or may not get enough ice or they may get good coaching and and enough ice time with their association but simply want more time to work on their skills. Regardless of why, they are doing it because they find value in that option. Improving their skills improves the strength of their association team also.

If the association has a problem with attendence then put an attendence policy in place to handle overlapping schedules. Don't really understand why D6 would pursue anything more than attendance policies to handle their concerns.

Well I do kind of understand but it has nothing to do with the kids rights and protecting the kids as they say. It's far more personal than that for BH and D6 cronies and parents that don't want Johny's teamates doing things that will pass him up.
hockey_is_a_choice
Posts: 239
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:48 am

Post by hockey_is_a_choice »

Today, Judge Tunheim issued the first substantive Order in the Minnesota Made versus Minnesota Hockey, District 6, et al, lawsuit. In a nutshell, although the Court denied Minnesota Made's motion for preliminary injunction, which would have prevented Minnesota Hockey and District 6 from enforcing the "outside league rule" while the lawsuit was pending, the Court determined that Minnesota Made "has shown a likelihood of success on it [sic] anti-trust monopolization claims." (Order, p. 2.)

What does this mean? It means that the Court thinks Minnesota Made's claims have merit and that money damages, as opposed to a preliminary injunction, will adequately compensate Minnesota Made. Frankly, regardless of where you fall on this issue, the Court's Opinion was a victory for Minnesota Made and a black eye for Minnesota Hockey and District 6.

Minnesota Hockey and District 6 are scheduled to argue to the Court that it should dismiss Minnesota Made's case against them in a hearing on January 7, starting at 1:30 pm, in Courtroom 13E in the Minneapolis Federal Court Building (this hearing is open to the public), Minnesota Hockey and District 6 have a huge mountain to climb to convince the Court that it should dismiss the lawsuit.

In reviewing the 19-page Order there are some interesting comments and observations by the Court.

*Minnesota Hockey and District 6 argued "that a preliminary injunction is not necessary since their own internal grievance policy is so prolonged that a player would not face discipline for violation of the rule during the hockey season." (Order, p. 6). "As a result, the Court does not find the type of harm demonstrated by plaintiff [Minnesota Made] warrants the 'extraordinary and drastic remedy' of a preliminary injunction." (Order, p. 7.)

* Probability of Success on the Merits: Minnesota Hockey argued it was exempt from anti-trust laws because it is nonprofit entity and part of USA Hockey, which is the National Governing Body (NGB) of hockey. The Court rejected this claim and, instead, determined that there is "no exemption from anti-trust liability when one local association [Minnesota Hockey] has adopted a rule for only their players." (Order, p. 9.) The Court further determined that "[t]he outside league rule changed the market in a manner antithetical to competition and [Minnesota Hockey's and District 6's] argument that the rule will improve [Minnesota Made's] business prospects runs counter to the record. . . . The Court thus finds that [Minnesota Made] has both an injury and standing to bring an anti-trust claim." (Order, p. 9.)

* The Court found that the evidence "sufficiently demonstrates [Minnesota Hockey's and District 6's] market power to exclude competition." (Order, p. 19.) "'[M]ere possession of monopoly power is not illegal. . . . However, if a monopolist abuses its monopoly power and acts in an unreasonable exclusionary manner vis-a-vis rivals or potential rivals, then [the anti-trust law] is violated.'" [citation omitted.] "The exclusionary requirement of the outside league rule coupled with the exemption of certain other leagues and activities, is adequate to demonstrate a probability of success [ by Minnesota Made on the merits of its monopolization claim]." (Order, pp. 13-14.)

* "[O]n its claim of tortious interference with prospective business relationships, the Court finds that [Minnesota Made] has demonstrated a likelihood of success on the merits." (Order, p. 17.)

* "The Court finds implausible the offered justification that District 6 acted to reduce scheduling conflicts and promote player well-being . . . ." (Order, p. 18.)
HockeyDad41
Posts: 1238
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:40 pm

Post by HockeyDad41 »

Sheesh. Maybe whoever at D6 made this rule up should have checked with someone first.
Solving all of hockey's problems since Feb 2009.
gorilla1
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Post by gorilla1 »

Maybe d6 could have done something as simple as inquire of it's members to get an idea how many of it's members would have wanted the lawsuit brought. Of course d6 should have also informed it's members that the lawsuit Would cost, at a minimum, $100,000's of thousands of dollars hiring attorneys for every association and d 6 and BH. That's not including paying potentially BM's attorneys fees and damages. Or d6 could have said let's save the money and simply had the coaches implement consequences for missing games/ practices. That meeting could have cost $100 and included coffee and donuts.
gorilla1
Posts: 226
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:03 am

Post by gorilla1 »

Maybe d6 could have done something as simple as inquire of it's members to get an idea how many of it's members would have wanted the lawsuit brought. Of course d6 should have also informed it's members that the lawsuit Would cost, at a minimum, $100,000's of thousands of dollars hiring attorneys for every association and d 6 and BH. That's not including paying potentially BM's attorneys fees and damages. Or d6 could have said let's save the money and simply had the coaches implement consequences for missing games/ practices. That meeting could have cost $100 and included coffee and donuts.
gorilla1
Posts: 226
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:03 am

Post by gorilla1 »

Maybe d6 could have done something as simple as inquire of it's members to get an idea how many of it's members would have wanted the lawsuit brought. Of course d6 should have also informed it's members that the lawsuit Would cost, at a minimum, $100,000's of thousands of dollars hiring attorneys for every association and d 6 and BH. That's not including paying potentially BM's attorneys fees and damages. Or d6 could have said let's save the money and simply had the coaches implement consequences for missing games/ practices. That meeting could have cost $100 and included coffee and donuts.
buttend
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Post by buttend »

muckandgrind wrote:
buttend wrote:
blueliner2day wrote:I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!! The only hypocracy here is calling Bernie a hypocrite. AGAIN.....pay attention people Bernie is running a BUSINESS - hockey associations are 501 c (3) ..... a non-profit cannot tell you what you can or can't do with your time/money apparantly unless you are a MN hockey association.
People take you hockey glasses off for a minute. There is a legal issue here whether you agree with it or not.

Minnesota Hockey, District 6 a 501C non profit has created a rule for people that fall within in its self designated geographical jusidiction. (monolopy) That rule simply states that if you want to play on a team with in the District 6 jurisdiction on a District 6 Association team you cannot patronize a private business that offers a simialar hockey service between the months of Sept and March.

Does this rule put the squeeze on a business? Yes. Is District 6 using its "monolopy" powers in MN hockey to tell someone what they can or cant do with their money or free time? Yes! This is the issue! Is District 6 enforcing the rule? I dont know? If they are, are they also enforcing the same rule on the District 6 players out of the 30+ players that registered for the Jr. Blades Winter Mite Development Program or is only MM targeted?
A couple of points:

-Since the D6 rule is only for outside "League Play" for Squirts and above, this will not affect those players who participate in the Jr Blades Mite Development Program, or MM clinics, for that matter.

-And to your point about the "monopoly" powers telling someone what they can or cannot do with their money......YOU ARE WRONG. District 6 is NOT telling someone they can't play in MM Choice League. They are saying that if you CHOOSE to play in the Choice League, you can't play in D6. There is absolutely NOTHING in the language of the rule that PREVENTS someone from registering in the Choice League.

WHY IS THIS SO FREAKIN' HARD FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND!?!?!?!? :shock: :shock:

Muck,

My post narrowed this down to a legal issue regarding a "monolopy" abusing its power thus affecting a business. I guess the judge whose order was thorough, direct with legal precedent was "WRONG" just like me! Looks like District 6 may be writing some big checks to BM and his lawyers.
old goalie85
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Post by old goalie85 »

One thing about" The Law " it aint over till it's over.
scrapiron
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Post by scrapiron »

If the courts decision is as Hockey-is-a-choice is reporting. It may not be over, but it should be. My experience is that the Judge is basically telling the parties which way he will rule and that they should settle.

To get to this point, each party has most likely spent $50,000 to $75,000 each in legal fees or more. BM/MN Made will be entitled to his attorneys fees and possible twice his attorneys for damages. When you factor in Minnesota Hockey's own attorneys fees this case could cost Minnesota Hockey over $200,000.00 dollars.

I hate to say it, but it might have been easier to make a simple attendance rule for players.
HockeyDad41
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Post by HockeyDad41 »

old goalie85 wrote:One thing about" The Law " it aint over till it's over.
Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Solving all of hockey's problems since Feb 2009.
hockey_is_a_choice
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Post by hockey_is_a_choice »

Um, the JAPANESE bombed Pearl Harbor . . .
elliott70
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Post by elliott70 »

hockey_is_a_choice wrote:Um, the JAPANESE bombed Pearl Harbor . . .
Quoting John Belushi's character in Animal House (a movie-very funny movie) from ealy 1980's.
C-dad
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Post by C-dad »

hockey_is_a_choice wrote:Um, the JAPANESE bombed Pearl Harbor . . .
Whoooosh...
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