Class A Rankings 1-30-11

[north*hockey]

I can almost guarantee that that will not happen. St. Thomas is by far the stronger team and totino will not be able to keep up the entire game

[EREmpireStrikesBack]

What do people think should happen with the top 3 if Totino wins? This would put it so Blake beat Totino and Totino beat St Thomas. So would St Thomas slide down to 3? Or does it depend on margin of victory. I'm hoping I don't have to worry about this, but looking for opinions if it does.

Totino, STA, Blake. In that order.

Totino has the resume to be deserving of #1 and taking down #1 would vault them into that spot. It doesn't seem fair that Blake should drop to 3, but someone has to. STA is too good to drop that far. In a close game, there could even be an argument for STA to remain #1.

[High Flyer]

What do people think should happen with the top 3 if Totino wins? This would put it so Blake beat Totino and Totino beat St Thomas. So would St Thomas slide down to 3? Or does it depend on margin of victory. I'm hoping I don't have to worry about this, but looking for opinions if it does.

Totino, STA, Blake. In that order.

Totino has the resume to be deserving of #1 and taking down #1 would vault them into that spot. It doesn't seem fair that Blake should drop to 3, but someone has to. STA is too good to drop that far. In a close game, there could even be an argument for STA to remain #1.

:idea:

EREmpireStrikesBack-Even with a TG win over STA, TG would never get the #1 spot over a team that beat TG (Blake).

HShockeywatcher-A STA loss to TG makes 1-Blake, 2-TG, 3-STA & 4-HT. TRF tie still haunts HT, though a HT win over EP tonight should vault HT to the #1 spot.

[HShockeywatcher]

MnHsHockey2011, where do you think chisago should be placed based on what you've seen of them?

What do people think should happen with the top 3 if Totino wins? This would put it so Blake beat Totino and Totino beat St Thomas. So would St Thomas slide down to 3? Or does it depend on margin of victory. I'm hoping I don't have to worry about this, but looking for opinions if it does.

Totino, STA, Blake. In that order.

Totino has the resume to be deserving of #1 and taking down #1 would vault them into that spot. It doesn't seem fair that Blake should drop to 3, but someone has to. STA is too good to drop that far. In a close game, there could even be an argument for STA to remain #1.

EREmpireStrikesBack-Even with a TG win over STA, TG would never get the #1 spot over a team that beat TG (Blake).

HShockeywatcher-A STA loss to TG makes 1-Blake, 2-TG, 3-STA & 4-HT. TRF tie still haunts HT, though a HT win over EP tonight should vault HT to the #1 spot.

Okay, so what about a Hermantown win and St Thomas win tonight? Where does that put Totino and Blake? Hermantown is very difficult to compare with these teams. Regardless of who makes it out of 2A and 4A, I could make an argument for the Hawks to be seeded anywhere from 1-3 at state.

[High Flyer]

MnHsHockey2011, where do you think chisago should be placed based on what you've seen of them?

Totino, STA, Blake. In that order.

Totino has the resume to be deserving of #1 and taking down #1 would vault them into that spot. It doesn't seem fair that Blake should drop to 3, but someone has to. STA is too good to drop that far. In a close game, there could even be an argument for STA to remain #1.

:idea:

EREmpireStrikesBack-Even with a TG win over STA, TG would never get the #1 spot over a team that beat TG (Blake).

HShockeywatcher-A STA loss to TG makes 1-Blake, 2-TG, 3-STA & 4-HT. TRF tie still haunts HT, though a HT win over EP tonight should vault HT to the #1 spot.

Okay, so what about a Hermantown win and St Thomas win tonight? Where does that put Totino and Blake? Hermantown is very difficult to compare with these teams. Regardless of who makes it out of 2A and 4A, I could make an argument for the Hawks to be seeded anywhere from 1-3 at state.

A Hermantown win and STA win tonight should move HT to number 1 & STA to 2. While HT hasn't played as many games vs. the top teams that STA has, they would have been the only class A team to have beaten a top 5 AA team this year and that has got to be worth something. HT beat EP, EP beats HM, HM beats STA, pecking order has been established. Blake would be 3, TG 4.

[Goldy23]

4. [2] Breck (10-7)

Have to agree. Not sure what the deal is with Breck. They are a good team that is capable of beating up weak opponents, but they haven't won a big game since the games last March @ the X....And this isn't that team!! They should be down in the 10-12 slot. They have some talent but somehow the coach needs to get them all on the same page. They take way too many penalties and it's killing them with average goaltending and Defense.

I also think Lourdes should be much higher as they already have as many wins as Breck is likely to finish the year with.

(1) Again, another tough call.

-Two years ago when Breck won their state first state title, all season everyone (including respected members of this board) on here was saying that Breck was mediocre at best because of who they'd played/beaten and the margins. Then they made it to state and dominated everyone they played. Some people were saying that, while others felt that they were a dominante team throughout the year. Keep in mind, the year you are refering to they only lost 3 games, all to ranked teams (#1A STA, #8A Maht, #10AA Wayzata in OT all before New Year. They also beat Blake twice, Lourdes, #3AA Dultuth East, CDH that year.

-Last year they had done nothing more to prove themselves aside from winning state the previous year, in fact they had less conference shut outs and margins at state were less, but many were calling them one of the best teams regardless of class. Again, I don't agree as they lost 2 games all year. One to STA in Overtime and one to Shattuck. Beating Blake(twice) Maht (twice), Lourdes, Totino, Lakeville South, Stillwater, Orono.

-This year they have lost some players, but are still a good team. AGREE! They have lost to the only the top 3 Class A teams and have dominated their conference similar to the last two years. Put them back in Silver, instead of Gold, and they'd have at least one more win, probably two.

Maybe not the team they were the last two years, but seem to still be quite good.

(2) I've repeated my reasons for why they are where they should be, but the only reasons I've heard for them being higher are (a) wins and (b) their schedule is similar to other teams ranked higher. a is true. b is not really though.

While similar, they have not played better teams close, but have played multiple worse teams very close. There are not many compelling reasons they should be higher aside from wins, which mean little. Up until recently Little Falls had more wins and no one wanted them higher. I'd want nothing more than to put a private school really high, but the proof just isn't there.

While they may not be a top 5 team this year, they are a top 10 team for sure. Next year they will once again likely be the top ranked team as they are only losing a couple of players.

[flatontheice]

(1) Again, another tough call.

-Two years ago when Breck won their state first state title, all season everyone (including respected members of this board) on here was saying that Breck was mediocre at best because of who they'd played/beaten and the margins. Then they made it to state and dominated everyone they played. Some people were saying that, while others felt that they were a dominante team throughout the year. Keep in mind, the year you are refering to they only lost 3 games, all to ranked teams (#1A STA, #8A Maht, #10AA Wayzata in OT all before New Year. They also beat Blake twice, Lourdes, #3AA Dultuth East, CDH that year.

-Last year they had done nothing more to prove themselves aside from winning state the previous year, in fact they had less conference shut outs and margins at state were less, but many were calling them one of the best teams regardless of class. Again, I don't agree as they lost 2 games all year. One to STA in Overtime and one to Shattuck. Beating Blake(twice) Maht (twice), Lourdes, Totino, Lakeville South, Stillwater, Orono.

-This year they have lost some players, but are still a good team. AGREE! They have lost to the only the top 3 Class A teams and have dominated their conference similar to the last two years. Put them back in Silver, instead of Gold, and they'd have at least one more win, probably two.

Maybe not the team they were the last two years, but seem to still be quite good.

(2) I've repeated my reasons for why they are where they should be, but the only reasons I've heard for them being higher are (a) wins and (b) their schedule is similar to other teams ranked higher. a is true. b is not really though.

While similar, they have not played better teams close, but have played multiple worse teams very close. There are not many compelling reasons they should be higher aside from wins, which mean little. Up until recently Little Falls had more wins and no one wanted them higher. I'd want nothing more than to put a private school really high, but the proof just isn't there.

While they may not be a top 5 team this year, they are a top 10 team for sure. Next year they will once again likely be the top ranked team as they are only losing a couple of players.

Next Year????????

[HShockeywatcher]

While they may not be a top 5 team this year, they are a top 10 team for sure. Next year they will once again likely be the top ranked team as they are only losing a couple of players.

Next Year????????

hockeyrocks, you are not wrong. I am simply repeating what was being said on here. People on here were saying they had done little with their schedule and very few were convinced they'd win more than a game at state.

Again, not saying they didn't do anything the following year, just that they hadn't done close to what they did the previous year, but because of winning state the previous year they were talked up.

Now, they have lost to only the top 3 teams in state and some want to say they aren't a top team. The general logic by the "bored" here is very inconsistent. It still surprises me.

Hard to compare all that in my opinion with a team like Hermantown, for example. Is it better to play more better teams and lose or play fewer and lose some?

[hockeyfan1022]

Delano beat Orono 6-3 tonight in a big ranking deciding game, however it seems it made Orono look worse than they are in a few ways, delano scored an empty netter and then a goal with 5 seconds left, before that it was 4-3 and it seemed the game could go either way, also Orono's #1 and #3 defensemen were out with injuries, a rematch of this game in sections would be great to see it should be interesting to watch section 2A play out

[keeponcoachin"]

Anyone else noticing that 6A seems to be moving toward a strong leader in Sartell? they have lit up Little falls 8-3, Sauk rapids 7-2 and last nite Fergus falls 7-3. They are getting scoring from top two lines and the defense and have a strong defense with pretty decent goaltending. Still gonna be a tight run for section but if they keep playing as they are and not get anyone hurt they should be able to make a trip to the Xcel come march. Little falls may come back around but seems like those tow must be the favorites at this point.

[low66]

My Opinion.

1. St. Thomas Academy
2. Blake
3. Totino-Grace
4. Hermantown
5. Hibbing/Chisholm
6. Duluth Marshall
7. Thief River Falls
8. Rochester Lourdes
9. Warroad
10. Breck
11. South St. Paul
12. Delano
13. Duluth Central
14. Virginia/MI-B
15. Rogers
16. Lake of the Woods
17. Sartell-St. Stephen
18. Little Falls
19. St. Cloud Cathedral
20. Wilmar

Honorable Mention: Providence Academy, Chisago Lakes, Proctor

As you can see from another Thread on this bored, Lyons, the great goaltender for LOW is leaving for the USHL.

You can now probably forget about LOW in the ratings.

lyons played last night in a win over trf, and also on another thread, it was said that lyons is not leaving during the season. if LOW can keep it together these last few weeks they will make a run for section 8!

[EREmpireStrikesBack]

New ratings, new ratings!

[HShockeywatcher]

Suggestions please...Hermantown just lost to a team that South St Paul shut out this season. All this does is validate me leaving Blake ahead of Hermantown, but where does this put the Hawks?

[fivehole628]

[quote="keeponcoachin""]Anyone else noticing that 6A seems to be moving toward a strong leader in Sartell? they have lit up Little falls 8-3, Sauk rapids 7-2 and last nite Fergus falls 7-3. They are getting scoring from top two lines and the defense and have a strong defense with pretty decent goaltending. Still gonna be a tight run for section but if they keep playing as they are and not get anyone hurt they should be able to make a trip to the Xcel come march. Little falls may come back around but seems like those tow must be the favorites at this point.[/quote]

After watching Sartell man handle Tech last night, granted Tech has about 6 injured right now, Sartell is the team to beat in this section. Especially since Little Falls barely got by Sauk Rapids in overtime, AT HOME

[dirtracing17]

Suggestions please...Hermantown just lost to a team that South St Paul shut out this season. All this does is validate me leaving Blake ahead of Hermantown, but where does this put the Hawks?

5th

[defense]

[quote="keeponcoachin""]Anyone else noticing that 6A seems to be moving toward a strong leader in Sartell? they have lit up Little falls 8-3, Sauk rapids 7-2 and last nite Fergus falls 7-3. They are getting scoring from top two lines and the defense and have a strong defense with pretty decent goaltending. Still gonna be a tight run for section but if they keep playing as they are and not get anyone hurt they should be able to make a trip to the Xcel come march. Little falls may come back around but seems like those tow must be the favorites at this point.

After watching Sartell man handle Tech last night, granted Tech has about 6 injured right now, Sartell is the team to beat in this section. Especially since Little Falls barely got by Sauk Rapids in overtime, AT HOME [/quote]

I just can't agree with that. I have to look at Little Falls wins over Tech and Brainerd, and the rest of their season. That, combined with Sartell's bad losses. Little Falls has not been routed this year, Sartell has. Especially when you look at the probable reasons that Little Falls lost to Sartell and Sartell beat Tech....Tech was missing players as you say and Little Falls had their backup goalie..... my opinion.

[HShockeywatcher]

Suggestions please...Hermantown just lost to a team that South St Paul shut out this season. All this does is validate me leaving Blake ahead of Hermantown, but where does this put the Hawks?

5th

Behind Breck or SSP?

[quote="keeponcoachin""]Anyone else noticing that 6A seems to be moving toward a strong leader in Sartell? they have lit up Little falls 8-3, Sauk rapids 7-2 and last nite Fergus falls 7-3. They are getting scoring from top two lines and the defense and have a strong defense with pretty decent goaltending. Still gonna be a tight run for section but if they keep playing as they are and not get anyone hurt they should be able to make a trip to the Xcel come march. Little falls may come back around but seems like those tow must be the favorites at this point.

After watching Sartell man handle Tech last night, granted Tech has about 6 injured right now, Sartell is the team to beat in this section. Especially since Little Falls barely got by Sauk Rapids in overtime, AT HOME

I just can't agree with that. I have to look at Little Falls wins over Tech and Brainerd, and the rest of their season. That, combined with Sartell's bad losses. Little Falls has not been routed this year, Sartell has. Especially when you look at the probable reasons that Little Falls lost to Sartell and Sartell beat Tech....Tech was missing players as you say and Little Falls had their backup goalie..... my opinion.[/quote]

At what point do those other factors come in? I can't imagine a coach sitting in a section meeting going "yeah, we do have a worse section record than you, and you did beat us, but it's only because we played our back up." Next we'll be hearing "our leading scorer had a big test the next day so his mind wasn't in the right place."
(A back up goalie is not the reason you allow 8 goals; there's 5 other guys on the ice)

I know it is very different playing all the teams, and I'm sure that how the teams played you plays a bigger factor in seeding than records for some teams, but at what point does what happens on the ice matter?

When it comes down to it, these teams are 1-1 against each other, but that is Sartell's only section loss, while Little Falls has two section losses. They team LF lost to tied Sartell and the team LF tied lost to Sartell twice. There are still games to be played, but right now the section top seed should be Sartell's to lose.

[defense]

Suggestions please...Hermantown just lost to a team that South St Paul shut out this season. All this does is validate me leaving Blake ahead of Hermantown, but where does this put the Hawks?

5th

Behind Breck or SSP?

[quote="keeponcoachin""]Anyone else noticing that 6A seems to be moving toward a strong leader in Sartell? they have lit up Little falls 8-3, Sauk rapids 7-2 and last nite Fergus falls 7-3. They are getting scoring from top two lines and the defense and have a strong defense with pretty decent goaltending. Still gonna be a tight run for section but if they keep playing as they are and not get anyone hurt they should be able to make a trip to the Xcel come march. Little falls may come back around but seems like those tow must be the favorites at this point.

After watching Sartell man handle Tech last night, granted Tech has about 6 injured right now, Sartell is the team to beat in this section. Especially since Little Falls barely got by Sauk Rapids in overtime, AT HOME

I just can't agree with that. I have to look at Little Falls wins over Tech and Brainerd, and the rest of their season. That, combined with Sartell's bad losses. Little Falls has not been routed this year, Sartell has. Especially when you look at the probable reasons that Little Falls lost to Sartell and Sartell beat Tech....Tech was missing players as you say and Little Falls had their backup goalie..... my opinion.

At what point do those other factors come in? I can't imagine a coach sitting in a section meeting going "yeah, we do have a worse section record than you, and you did beat us, but it's only because we played our back up." Next we'll be hearing "our leading scorer had a big test the next day so his mind wasn't in the right place."
(A back up goalie is not the reason you allow 8 goals; there's 5 other guys on the ice)

I know it is very different playing all the teams, and I'm sure that how the teams played you plays a bigger factor in seeding than records for some teams, but at what point does what happens on the ice matter?

When it comes down to it, these teams are 1-1 against each other, but that is Sartell's only section loss, while Little Falls has two section losses. They team LF lost to tied Sartell and the team LF tied lost to Sartell twice. There are still games to be played, but right now the section top seed should be Sartell's to lose.[/quote]

"Other factors" was at the very end of the post. It was intended as a reason that Sartell is not the "team to beat" in section 6a, not as a reason that they won't get the #1 seed.
My reasons that Sartell will not get the #1 seed are that they have been blown out this year multiple times, by teams that Little Falls beat. This fact could also be used as a reason that they are not the "team to beat".
I'm not sure what the statement "how a team plays you" means, but if you mean how they played against the team I follow Sartell would be on top of that one.
The coaches of the teams in the section vote on the seeds. I'm positive they take section records into account, but it can't be the only variable. They have to be taking the entire season into account as well. And when you look at the entire season, Sartell's season clearly did not go as good as Little Falls'. Wouldn't you think that Willmar's loss to Marshall, Hutch, Blaine and Brainerd will be taken into account when they get seeded??
Again, for who Little Falls has beaten and for who Sartell was beaten by, Little Falls is still the team to beat and should be the #1 seed regardless what the section record is and who was hurt etc. THis is my opinion and it is really almost splitting hairs. In the end, top seed or 2 seed really won't matter. What will matter is who each team may draw in their bracket as far as matchups.

Sartell 1 LF 3 LF 3 Sartell 1
Sartell 8 LF 3 LF 3 Sartell 8
Sartell 1 Tech 9 LF 3 Tech 1
Sartell 0 Brainerd 5 LF 3 Brainerd 2
Sartell 4 Tech 1


Side note: Little Falls' backup gaolie gave up 10 or 11 to Fergus Falls' JV in their last game.

[High Flyer]

Suggestions please...Hermantown just lost to a team that South St Paul shut out this season. All this does is validate me leaving Blake ahead of Hermantown, but where does this put the Hawks?

On paper, I have a hard time dropping Totino down and at the same time on paper HT should move down, but based on what I have seen on the ice is much different than on paper. My gut tells me that the three est teams are STA, Blake & Hermantown, though a strong argument could be made to move Hermantown down to as low as 6

1-3
STA
Blake
Hermantown

4-7
SSP
Totino
Breck

8-10, so hard to figure out. Maybe Lourdes will make it easey for us with a win on Sat., could move them up to the top 4? That is till someone else loses a game they should not.

And Central, trying to figure them out.....

[HShockeywatcher]

defense, when I made the comment "how a team plays you" I was referring to a coach in the section meeting. Just as people have made comments to me about the way I rank, I am guessing that when a coach is seeding teams they've played, they probably look to how the games went when they played the teams, not as much as the schedule. I may be wrong.

For example, when Alex's coach seeds the teams, my guess would be that he will look back at what he thought of the teams and how they played against Alex and less at their schedule of how they did against other teams. Again, I may be wrong, but personal experience says a lot more than a schedule can.

For me, as someone who enjoys looking at the numbers and does ranking weekly, I weigh head to head match ups much more than common opponent games.

Another thing the schedule shows is a team who struggled early and has been improving since, while it shows another team who did well early and has been struggling lately. I don't know how much teams try to seed teams as they are now vs. a teams' seasons' body of work.

I just have my opinion to go off, but I do understand all you are saying.


High Flyer, a Lourdes win Saturday would also throw a few other things around, as Lourdes has lost to Marshall, who just lost to Central. Totino has a win against that same common opponent (TRF) that Blake has who H-Town tied.

[fivehole628]

5th

Behind Breck or SSP?

After watching Sartell man handle Tech last night, granted Tech has about 6 injured right now, Sartell is the team to beat in this section. Especially since Little Falls barely got by Sauk Rapids in overtime, AT HOME

I just can't agree with that. I have to look at Little Falls wins over Tech and Brainerd, and the rest of their season. That, combined with Sartell's bad losses. Little Falls has not been routed this year, Sartell has. Especially when you look at the probable reasons that Little Falls lost to Sartell and Sartell beat Tech....Tech was missing players as you say and Little Falls had their backup goalie..... my opinion.

At what point do those other factors come in? I can't imagine a coach sitting in a section meeting going "yeah, we do have a worse section record than you, and you did beat us, but it's only because we played our back up." Next we'll be hearing "our leading scorer had a big test the next day so his mind wasn't in the right place."
(A back up goalie is not the reason you allow 8 goals; there's 5 other guys on the ice)

I know it is very different playing all the teams, and I'm sure that how the teams played you plays a bigger factor in seeding than records for some teams, but at what point does what happens on the ice matter?

When it comes down to it, these teams are 1-1 against each other, but that is Sartell's only section loss, while Little Falls has two section losses. They team LF lost to tied Sartell and the team LF tied lost to Sartell twice. There are still games to be played, but right now the section top seed should be Sartell's to lose.

"Other factors" was at the very end of the post. It was intended as a reason that Sartell is not the "team to beat" in section 6a, not as a reason that they won't get the #1 seed.
My reasons that Sartell will not get the #1 seed are that they have been blown out this year multiple times, by teams that Little Falls beat. This fact could also be used as a reason that they are not the "team to beat".
I'm not sure what the statement "how a team plays you" means, but if you mean how they played against the team I follow Sartell would be on top of that one.
The coaches of the teams in the section vote on the seeds. I'm positive they take section records into account, but it can't be the only variable. They have to be taking the entire season into account as well. And when you look at the entire season, Sartell's season clearly did not go as good as Little Falls'. Wouldn't you think that Willmar's loss to Marshall, Hutch, Blaine and Brainerd will be taken into account when they get seeded??
Again, for who Little Falls has beaten and for who Sartell was beaten by, Little Falls is still the team to beat and should be the #1 seed regardless what the section record is and who was hurt etc. THis is my opinion and it is really almost splitting hairs. In the end, top seed or 2 seed really won't matter. What will matter is who each team may draw in their bracket as far as matchups.

Sartell 1 LF 3 LF 3 Sartell 1
Sartell 8 LF 3 LF 3 Sartell 8
Sartell 1 Tech 9 LF 3 Tech 1
Sartell 0 Brainerd 5 LF 3 Brainerd 2
Sartell 4 Tech 1


Side note: Little Falls' backup gaolie gave up 10 or 11 to Fergus Falls' JV in their last game.[/quote]

Sartell has hit their hot streak. 4-0-1 in their last 5 games and averaging over 6 goals a game. Yes, Sartell has been blown out twice. BUT, that was earlier in the season. They're on a roll as of right now. We'll have to wait and see how they do against Virginia tomorrow and Brainerd the last game of the season.

But in my opinion, Sartell has the #1 seed as of today.

[The Talon]

3-0. Lhs over breck after 1. Sog. 7-7

[The Talon]

But of course Lourdes hasn't beaten anybody yet.....

[HShockeywatcher]

Lourdes 5
Breck 3

Lourdes get the signature win they needed to justify a top 4 seed should they win their section.

Prob not. Beating Breck seems to mean less and less now.

Also, if Marshall were to win their section, Lourdes lost to Marshall, so that would keep them down.

[goldy313]

No, you put too much emphasis on 1 game. I agree Breck isn't all that good but they've remained rated high on all polls based pretty much soley on name recoginition, not on anything that has happened on the ice.

There's a situation developing where all 4 seeded teams in A hockey may very well be private schools. I'm not anti private but that won't be good for hockey.