Game Misconduct – Ineligible player

[blueliner2day]

Just the facts, please.

1. The Centennial head coach is a nonparent coach. The player was not his child.

2. The Centennial coach sought guidance from a district official, not Tim Timm.

3. Based on the enquiry, the coach believed the player was eligible to play in the game against SLP.

4.  No one associated with Andover or SLP brought the issue up during the game or was responsible for stopping the game.

5.  Timm heard the facts and made a ruling that the player would continue to play in the game against SLP and sit out the game against Blaine.

6.  Timm had the authority to make that decision based on the facts presented to him.

Yes, the Centennial coach could have sought additional guidance. Yes, the district 10 official could have immediately brought the issue to the attention of Timm. Yes, . . . Given the facts, I support Timm's decision. My understanding is that this issue is resolved at the district level and no one will face additional punishments.

The reality is none of us are perfect and life is stranger than fiction, which is why we put people in positions of hearing the facts as presented and making rulings. We may not like those people personally or agree with their decisions, but we gave them the authority to make decisions that affect us.

Choice, just the facts.......you were the first to cast stones about "sour grapes" from Andover and to call the DD "Tiny Tim" and now you are all kum-bay-yah with the decision and the rest of us should be as well because you laid out the facts. This is quite a flip flop - you were against the decision before you accepted it???

[pro2b@3]

Just the facts, please.

1. The Centennial head coach is a nonparent coach. The player was not his child.

2. The Centennial coach sought guidance from a district official, not Tim Timm.

3. Based on the enquiry, the coach believed the player was eligible to play in the game against SLP.

4.  No one associated with Andover or SLP brought the issue up during the game or was responsible for stopping the game.

5.  Timm heard the facts and made a ruling that the player would continue to play in the game against SLP and sit out the game against Blaine.

6.  Timm had the authority to make that decision based on the facts presented to him.

Yes, the Centennial coach could have sought additional guidance. Yes, the district 10 official could have immediately brought the issue to the attention of Timm. Yes, . . . Given the facts, I support Timm's decision. My understanding is that this issue is resolved at the district level and no one will face additional punishments.

The reality is none of us are perfect and life is stranger than fiction, which is why we put people in positions of hearing the facts as presented and making rulings. We may not like those people personally or agree with their decisions, but we gave them the authority to make decisions that affect us.

Choice, just the facts.......you were the first to cast stones about "sour grapes" from Andover and to call the DD "Tiny Tim" and now you are all kum-bay-yah with the decision and the rest of us should be as well because you laid out the facts. This is quite a flip flop - you were against the decision before you accepted it???

Because her kid Skates for the Centennial coach in the Summer. So I guess she has his back.

[council member retired]

[quote="pro2b@3"][quote="blueliner2day"][quote="hockey_is_a_choice"]Just the facts, please.

1. The Centennial head coach is a nonparent coach. The player was not his child.

2. The Centennial coach sought guidance from a district official, not Tim Timm.

3. Based on the enquiry, the coach believed the player was eligible to play in the game against SLP.

4.  No one associated with Andover or SLP brought the issue up during the game or was responsible for stopping the game.

5.  Timm heard the facts and made a ruling that the player would continue to play in the game against SLP and sit out the game against Blaine.

6.  Timm had the authority to make that decision based on the facts presented to him.

Yes, the Centennial coach could have sought additional guidance. Yes, the district 10 official could have immediately brought the issue to the attention of Timm. Yes, . . . Given the facts, I support Timm's decision. My understanding is that this issue is resolved at the district level and no one will face additional punishments.

The reality is none of us are perfect and life is stranger than fiction, which is why we put people in positions of hearing the facts as presented and making rulings. We may not like those people personally or agree with their decisions, but we gave them the authority to make decisions that affect us.[/quote]

Choice, just the facts.......you were the first to cast stones about "sour grapes" from Andover and to call the DD "Tiny Tim" and now you are all kum-bay-yah with the decision and the rest of us should be as well because you laid out the facts. This is quite a flip flop - you were against the decision before you accepted it???[/quote]

Because her kid Skates for the Centennial coach in the Summer. So I guess she has his back.[/quote]


bizingaaaa

[the_juiceman]

Just the facts, please.

1. The Centennial head coach is a nonparent coach. The player was not his child.

2. The Centennial coach sought guidance from a district official, not Tim Timm.

3. Based on the enquiry, the coach believed the player was eligible to play in the game against SLP.

4.  No one associated with Andover or SLP brought the issue up during the game or was responsible for stopping the game.

5.  Timm heard the facts and made a ruling that the player would continue to play in the game against SLP and sit out the game against Blaine.

6.  Timm had the authority to make that decision based on the facts presented to him.

Yes, the Centennial coach could have sought additional guidance. Yes, the district 10 official could have immediately brought the issue to the attention of Timm. Yes, . . . Given the facts, I support Timm's decision. My understanding is that this issue is resolved at the district level and no one will face additional punishments.

The reality is none of us are perfect and life is stranger than fiction, which is why we put people in positions of hearing the facts as presented and making rulings. We may not like those people personally or agree with their decisions, but we gave them the authority to make decisions that affect us.

First blame goes to D10, but the coach knows better. Unless he was a new coach, which I highly doubt at a PWA level. Are you telling me this is the first he's heard of this rule?
If D10 knew this kid shouldn't be on the ice, why didn't they talk to the coach prior to the game? Why wait until the game was half over? Why didn't the coach clarify it at the rink prior to the game starting? This has mud all over it.
Again, rules are rules and Timm choose to bend them? How is that right? The kid sat out the next game, clearly he shouldn't have been playing in the previous game.
Completely unfair to the SLP kids and to this kid who has been at the center of this topic. He just listened to his head coach, not his Dad. (he's the asst coach, right?)

If blame is something you want to pass around--put it on Centennial--(The coach and the association's player rep/district rep)--it's their responsibility to know the rules. Dist. 10 has given them all the materials. SLP got the short stick, no doubt. Whether you agree with Timm's decision or not, the Dist. is not there to play the gaurdian--they are there to help guide when asked questions. Obviously, they didn't do that very well, but if you must blame someone--it's Centennial!!

[Ugottobekiddingme]

There is another way of looking at this without including kids and coaches trying to play a youth sport regulated by rules and regulations from the higher mandate. The people responsible for maintaining this are...D10 and the boys director within the program. The responsibility falls on these individuals to administer a program to follow the "rule". This obviously did not happen and these individuals need to be held accountable. Leave the coach, assistant coaches, coaches kids, and the association out of the discussion...they are trying to play hockey and develop kids in a youth program. "Blame" should be directed towards the orchestrators that didn't manage it correctly...they drive the program and should be responsible for the outcome. SLP, hopefully you had a great year and good luck next year.

[forreal]

There is another way of looking at this without including kids and coaches trying to play a youth sport regulated by rules and regulations from the higher mandate. The people responsible for maintaining this are...D10 and the boys director within the program. The responsibility falls on these individuals to administer a program to follow the "rule". This obviously did not happen and these individuals need to be held accountable. Leave the coach, assistant coaches, coaches kids, and the association out of the discussion...they are trying to play hockey and develop kids in a youth program. "Blame" should be directed towards the orchestrators that didn't manage it correctly...they drive the program and should be responsible for the outcome. SLP, hopefully you had a great year and good luck next year.

Ugottobekiddingme,
Ugottobekiddingme! I agree that the district deserves some responsibility, but the coach put the player out. With that he was ignoring a rule. Whether or not that was the deciding factor in the slp game can't be determined. Also I'm not sure winning by foreit it the way a team ultimately wants to advance. It's just an unfortunate situation that hopefully centennial(coaching staff) would handle better next time.

[MrBoDangles]

There is another way of looking at this without including kids and coaches trying to play a youth sport regulated by rules and regulations from the higher mandate. The people responsible for maintaining this are...D10 and the boys director within the program. The responsibility falls on these individuals to administer a program to follow the "rule". This obviously did not happen and these individuals need to be held accountable. Leave the coach, assistant coaches, coaches kids, and the association out of the discussion...they are trying to play hockey and develop kids in a youth program. "Blame" should be directed towards the orchestrators that didn't manage it correctly...they drive the program and should be responsible for the outcome. SLP, hopefully you had a great year and good luck next year.

Ugottobekiddingme,
Ugottobekiddingme! I agree that the district deserves some responsibility, but the coach put the player out. With that he was ignoring a rule. Whether or not that was the deciding factor in the slp game can't be determined. Also I'm not sure winning by foreit it the way a team ultimately wants to advance. It's just an unfortunate situation that hopefully centennial(coaching staff) would handle better next time.

It was a flop by District 10. The kid should of been pulled (when they found out ) from the SLP game and should of been played and forfeited or been rescheduled without the player. Centennial should of had their player back for the second game.

How crappy is this for SLP?

[DMom]

There is another way of looking at this without including kids and coaches trying to play a youth sport regulated by rules and regulations from the higher mandate. The people responsible for maintaining this are...D10 and the boys director within the program. The responsibility falls on these individuals to administer a program to follow the "rule". This obviously did not happen and these individuals need to be held accountable. Leave the coach, assistant coaches, coaches kids, and the association out of the discussion...they are trying to play hockey and develop kids in a youth program. "Blame" should be directed towards the orchestrators that didn't manage it correctly...they drive the program and should be responsible for the outcome. SLP, hopefully you had a great year and good luck next year.

Ugottobekiddingme,
Ugottobekiddingme! I agree that the district deserves some responsibility, but the coach put the player out. With that he was ignoring a rule. Whether or not that was the deciding factor in the slp game can't be determined. Also I'm not sure winning by foreit it the way a team ultimately wants to advance. It's just an unfortunate situation that hopefully centennial(coaching staff) would handle better next time.

I agree with forreal in that SLP is drawing a lot of attention to something that, ultimately, probably wouldn't have been a good thing. Advancing by forfeit is not the way to go.

I think we all need to remember that the District staff, regardless of which district, are not paid full-time people. It isn't like at the local dance or gymnastics center where everyone gets paid. These people are volunteers and as such, aren't necessarily available at the beck and call of coaches, parents, etc. The rules are out there, it is everyone's duty and responsibility to the kids involved to know them. The District staff is not there to enforce rules, though they can, they aren't police officers out looking for infractions---that WOULD be a full time job in youth hockey.

[MrBoDangles]

There is another way of looking at this without including kids and coaches trying to play a youth sport regulated by rules and regulations from the higher mandate. The people responsible for maintaining this are...D10 and the boys director within the program. The responsibility falls on these individuals to administer a program to follow the "rule". This obviously did not happen and these individuals need to be held accountable. Leave the coach, assistant coaches, coaches kids, and the association out of the discussion...they are trying to play hockey and develop kids in a youth program. "Blame" should be directed towards the orchestrators that didn't manage it correctly...they drive the program and should be responsible for the outcome. SLP, hopefully you had a great year and good luck next year.

Ugottobekiddingme,
Ugottobekiddingme! I agree that the district deserves some responsibility, but the coach put the player out. With that he was ignoring a rule. Whether or not that was the deciding factor in the slp game can't be determined. Also I'm not sure winning by foreit it the way a team ultimately wants to advance. It's just an unfortunate situation that hopefully centennial(coaching staff) would handle better next time.

I agree with forreal in that SLP is drawing a lot of attention to something that, ultimately, probably wouldn't have been a good thing. Advancing by forfeit is not the way to go.

I think we all need to remember that the District staff, regardless of which district, are not paid full-time people. It isn't like at the local dance or gymnastics center where everyone gets paid. These people are volunteers and as such, aren't necessarily available at the beck and call of coaches, parents, etc. The rules are out there, it is everyone's duty and responsibility to the kids involved to know them. The District staff is not there to enforce rules, though they can, they aren't police officers out looking for infractions---that WOULD be a full time job in youth hockey.

Advantage Blaine then(SLP doesn't matter)........... Blaine had lost to Centennial both times during the season.

Who enforces the rules then? Is it pure anarchy?

[DMom]

Ugottobekiddingme,
Ugottobekiddingme! I agree that the district deserves some responsibility, but the coach put the player out. With that he was ignoring a rule. Whether or not that was the deciding factor in the slp game can't be determined. Also I'm not sure winning by foreit it the way a team ultimately wants to advance. It's just an unfortunate situation that hopefully centennial(coaching staff) would handle better next time.

I agree with forreal in that SLP is drawing a lot of attention to something that, ultimately, probably wouldn't have been a good thing. Advancing by forfeit is not the way to go.

I think we all need to remember that the District staff, regardless of which district, are not paid full-time people. It isn't like at the local dance or gymnastics center where everyone gets paid. These people are volunteers and as such, aren't necessarily available at the beck and call of coaches, parents, etc. The rules are out there, it is everyone's duty and responsibility to the kids involved to know them. The District staff is not there to enforce rules, though they can, they aren't police officers out looking for infractions---that WOULD be a full time job in youth hockey.

Advantage Blaine then(SLP doesn't matter)........... Blaine had lost to Centennial both times during the season.

Who enforces the rules then? Is it pure anarchy?

The adults enforce the rule, regardless of their positions. It's a kid's game. The adults are only facilitators to make sure it all goes smoothly. I'm a grownup, I know the rules.

Some of what is going on here is a summer thing. Swipe the coach and maybe the summer program will suffer and some of the kids will switch over to the other side's summer team.

My point is that someone who has a full-time job, a family, and on top of that volunteers, is not a person to be villified. They are people to be thanked. Things happen in the real world, certainly they are going to happen in youth hockey. Which kids suffered? Well, one kid had consequences to his actions. The rest were lucky enough to play the game of hockey.

[curious_2011]

From Peewee A Scores:

Proctor had a player get 5 penalties in the game. Lakers coach questioned how many penalties the player had when he got his 5th. Proctor player continued to play and scored a couple goals (including game winner at the time). It turned into quite the mess. Refs made phone calls to at least district after game and game was let stand. At 1:30 today (do not know how far it got district/state) call was reversed and Proctor forfeited.

[MrBoDangles]

I agree with forreal in that SLP is drawing a lot of attention to something that, ultimately, probably wouldn't have been a good thing. Advancing by forfeit is not the way to go.

I think we all need to remember that the District staff, regardless of which district, are not paid full-time people. It isn't like at the local dance or gymnastics center where everyone gets paid. These people are volunteers and as such, aren't necessarily available at the beck and call of coaches, parents, etc. The rules are out there, it is everyone's duty and responsibility to the kids involved to know them. The District staff is not there to enforce rules, though they can, they aren't police officers out looking for infractions---that WOULD be a full time job in youth hockey.

Advantage Blaine then(SLP doesn't matter)........... Blaine had lost to Centennial both times during the season.

Who enforces the rules then? Is it pure anarchy?

The adults enforce the rule, regardless of their positions. It's a kid's game. The adults are only facilitators to make sure it all goes smoothly. I'm a grownup, I know the rules.

Some of what is going on here is a summer thing. Swipe the coach and maybe the summer program will suffer and some of the kids will switch over to the other side's summer team.

My point is that someone who has a full-time job, a family, and on top of that volunteers, is not a person to be villified. They are people to be thanked. Things happen in the real world, certainly they are going to happen in youth hockey. Which kids suffered? Well, one kid had consequences to his actions. The rest were lucky enough to play the game of hockey.

They took the time to make a decision. They flopped on the decision. They should of rescheduled the game without the player or the game should of been forfeited. This would seem to be a no brainer for most, instead, they went against their own rules........

Sure seems like someone tried to turn it into an advantage for Blaine.

"Which kids suffered?" The answer is two thirds of them.

[BadgerBob82]

I was trying to located the 5 penalty rule? Where can I find the rulebook containing this rule?

[forreal]

Seems like the one who gave Blaine the advantage was the centennial staff. They should have planned ahead for this and the player should have sat against slp

[PanthersIn2011]

I was trying to located the 5 penalty rule? Where can I find the rulebook containing this rule?

Bob:

You will find it under USAH rule 404(d):


(d) Any player (Midget age classification and below, including
High School and Senior Women) who incurs five penalties in
the same game shall be assessed a game misconduct penalty.
Any Adult player who incurs five penalties in the same
game shall be immediately ejected from the game with no
further suspension.
Any Head Coach whose team (Midget age classification
and below, including High School and Senior Women)
receives 15 or more penalties during one game shall be
suspended for the next one game of that team.
(Note) For all game misconduct penalties regardless of when
imposed, a total of 10 minutes shall be charged in the
records against an offending player.

[silentbutdeadly3139]

I agree with forreal in that SLP is drawing a lot of attention to something that, ultimately, probably wouldn't have been a good thing. Advancing by forfeit is not the way to go.

I think we all need to remember that the District staff, regardless of which district, are not paid full-time people. It isn't like at the local dance or gymnastics center where everyone gets paid. These people are volunteers and as such, aren't necessarily available at the beck and call of coaches, parents, etc. The rules are out there, it is everyone's duty and responsibility to the kids involved to know them. The District staff is not there to enforce rules, though they can, they aren't police officers out looking for infractions---that WOULD be a full time job in youth hockey.

Advantage Blaine then(SLP doesn't matter)........... Blaine had lost to Centennial both times during the season.

Who enforces the rules then? Is it pure anarchy?

The adults enforce the rule, regardless of their positions. It's a kid's game. The adults are only facilitators to make sure it all goes smoothly. I'm a grownup, I know the rules.

Some of what is going on here is a summer thing. Swipe the coach and maybe the summer program will suffer and some of the kids will switch over to the other side's summer team.

My point is that someone who has a full-time job, a family, and on top of that volunteers, is not a person to be villified. They are people to be thanked. Things happen in the real world, certainly they are going to happen in youth hockey. Which kids suffered? Well, one kid had consequences to his actions. The rest were lucky enough to play the game of hockey.

Thanked yes but that does NOT absolve them from doing the right and fair thing. Perhaps the whole SLP team suffered ?

[codemanh]

I agree with forreal in that SLP is drawing a lot of attention to something that, ultimately, probably wouldn't have been a good thing. Advancing by forfeit is not the way to go.

I know if I was SLP I would rather win on forfeit then lose 7-3 in a game where an inelgible player had 4 points.

[BadgerBob82]

Panthers: Thank you for posting the rule!

If I understood what happened, the player was assessed 4 penalties? Or is the 10 actually a penalty on it's own?

[Ugottobekiddingme]

wait....Panthers and Badger are trying to figure out the penalty rule....this is going to get interesting....

[BadgerBob82]

No need to fear. I have now read the entire rule book and realize the check-from-behind is often incorrectly recorded as 1 penalty, though it is actually a minor (or major) with a misconduct (10 or game) automatically called.

[Ugottobekiddingme]

Oh goody, now that you have read the entire rule book, can you explain where it specified during regular season play what the rule is on game misconduct or player eligibility towards...let's say...the next tournament game played?

[SimpleSimon]

I am a Centennial parent and would like to put a stop to all the FABRICATED stories which have evolved since this blog started. I am publically apologizing to the family and coach of the "Alleged" Ineligible Player, otherwise known as “The Kid”, as they have previously asked our Centennial team not to respond to the meaningless babbling's of this blog. HOWEVER, as with any gossip train, very little truth is being spoken in the previous blogs. It’s time for someone to state the truth.

FACT: The "Alleged" Ineligible Player was involved in an altercation with 1 minute left in the 3rd period at the end of the last season game. HE WAS NOT ASSESSED ANY OTHER PENELTAIES DURING THAT GAME!

FACT: Centennial reported the game misconduct to the District 10 Peewee Coordinator via email and 2 phone calls.

FACT: Centennial's head coach (who is NOT a parent) made 2 separate phone calls to the District 10 Peewee Coordinator to get the details of the disciplinary action regarding “The Kid”. The D10 Coordinator explained at the current time, there was no disciplinary action, and if anyone had questions the Centennial head coach was to refer them to him (D10 peewee coordinator). He (D10 Coordinator) would be on the premises for all district playoff games. AGAIN, THIS WAS VERIFIED TWICE!

FACT: With approximately 7mins left on the clock in the 2nd period of the first district game (Centennial vs. SLP), the same D10 peewee coordinator who boldly stated "no disciplinary action at this time" stopped the game and accused Centennial of skating an ineligible player.

FACT: The District 10 Coordinator did not follow D10’s own procedures and inaccurate information was given to Centennial's head coach. NO EMAILS WERE EVER FOUND from the D10 peewee coordinator who said he sent them to Centennial’s head coach and manager. Hmmmm… District 10 did not have a leg to stand on at this point, thus the game resumed and ended in Centennial’s 7-3 victory vs. Spring Lake Park.

OPINION: Centennial does not need the “The Kid” to fair well over SLP.
Check the score of the game dated 2-8-2011 on District 10’s Peewee A Scoreboard; Centennial 6, Spring Lake Park 1…..”The Kid” was not at this game due to illness….and yet Centennial still had a 5 goal point spread victory over SLP .… Hmmmm….

OPINION: Get your facts straight before you start publicly blogging your bogus information.

Peewee Hockey is a youth sport. It is our job as parents and coaches to guide these kids in the right direction when situations as these occur. We as adults are to take the high road, weather it be winning or losing a game, to encourage good sportsmanship in our youth. When adults shake hands at the end of a frustrating game and say to the players “Good Game Cheaters,” “Good Game Cheaters,” “Good Game Cheaters,” the mentors to our players have failed. THIS behavior should be the real focus of these blogs; not weather or not a game can be won with one less kid on the ice. Last time I checked, hockey was a team sport…..Hmmmmm

[observer]

Funny. Thanks for the babble.

The player should not have suited up or played. The coach and the manager should be fined so as they pay a little better attention in the future. It's not the district's job to dictate but it is their job to facilitate. Good District Directors let their members rule as often times their own opinion doesn't matter and they don't even vote on several District decisions when members do. It's the association president, coaches and managers job to dictate to their own members regarding the rules. Don't look to District leadership for a ruling. It's the association's responsibility to know the rules and enforce them with your members. In this particular instance your association failed to inforce the rules. Passing the buck is for 12 year old kids not adults.