2005 SECTION 1A/1AA Elite II Roster as of 08/30/2005

hcky0809 · Post by **hcky0809** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:59 am

I have heard similar scenarios with other rosters with coaches taking more players this year than maybe what was done last year. I guess I would concur with some posters that are saying it would make some sense to follow similar guidelines that Elite I employs - it would seem to make sense to follow something that it is credible and has worked it's own bugs out (for the most part). I would suggest maximum roster size of 20 with the ability to add up to 5 additional "alternate" players and I think these players should be identified and informed as such after try-outs are complete. I think if a coach wants to go above the 25 as "practice players" only, I don't think that's a big deal but I don't think they should necessarily be considered eligible for playing in games. I naive question I have is isn't everyone paying the same amount regardless of the roster size or is that determined by each coach/manager?

Sioux Fan · Post by **Sioux Fan** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:16 am

I have been doing this for 9 seasons and it works better with many players available and competiion and non-annointment. I like players to have to earn their slots on Wednesday and have to keep them on Saturday and Sunday. I think it is healthy to have competition and coverage for kids to do thier homecoming activities too! Or if a Football player is banged up and sore he shouldn't have to play or the team shouldn't have to be short-handed. Trust me I know what I am doing. I wonder if the Elite I does. I wonder how they take players that were in the lower 10% in our scoring to the Elite I and leave out our 2nd 3rd and 4th leading scorers from last fall. The reason is they know all and see all and send out letters and then they are done. We evaluate critic and ask for more on a daily basis. Do you see the difference. Hockey Nut in So. MN

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:25 am

Is hockey all about scoring the goal? If thats what it takes to become an Elite player, I'll tell my son to stop worrying about playing defense, backchecking hard and plus/minus, and start worrying more about his point totals by hanging back, cherry picking and hogging the puck.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT=":o"> SiouxFan, thats basically what you just said:<blockquote>Quote:<hr> wonder how they take players that were in the lower 10% in our scoring to the Elite I and leave out our 2nd 3rd and 4th leading scorers from last fall.<hr></blockquote><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/frown.gif ALT=":("> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... RLStars</A> at: 8/31/05 9:29 am

scottparker · Post by **scottparker** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 10:40 am

Sioux Fan, perhaps your doing this all correctly, but check out some of the other threads here. It appears that the "West Metro Team" may be doing nothing more than putting on the local kids for the coaches to have extra time with them, ignoring the talent. I really don't think that you should be quite so critical of the Elite Leage as they do make mistakes, but they're nothing like what your "Tier II" league seems to be making. Your league is NOT a farm program or a stepping stone to the next level. I've seen many cases where some kids are studs in scoring when they don't have any real competition, but when the games get tight they disappear. Could that be the case with your top guys from last year. My recollection is that the games weren't all the great last season for some of your teams. Unless you guys decide to really work together and try to put together high quality teams, it's just going to be like it is now. You sort of sound like you weren't allowed to be part of the Elite League and so you want to compete with them. Don't go there, you're too good for that. What you do down your way is too important to sound like a whiner. Rant off--

Sioux Fan · Post by **Sioux Fan** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:58 am

Parker, off of our team last year Murphy is doing well with Owatonna, Kangas is at Sioux Falls, Ryan is at Russel Stover in Kansas City, Skippy Holland is going to be in the NAHL after he gets released from the Alpena team, Tim Kirby should surly be in the Elite League. Jacob Petricka and Jay Gorman and Nathan Dunfee were top performers on our team and due to commitments to baseball were not even given a fair shot at the Elite I program. Did you do our games. I think our team would be able to compete with anybody. Also I think that having a tryout camp and giving players an opportunity to face their competition head to head is not a novel idea. Picking out of the sky is. Hockey Nut in So. MNEdited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... xfan>Sioux Fan</A> at: 8/31/05 12:08 pm

Sioux Fan · Post by **Sioux Fan** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:06 pm

usually the teams that play our team our on the defensive because we come after them. I would rather be on offense than defense. If you play good D that allows you to be on offense. Our record vs the Metro teams last season was 17-1. Parker, What other group from our area does that. I also know that my kids are better because the Elite I league doesn't always know the Cory Krogens from Marshall, MN who had the best camp of any one the past two weekends. I was not interested in working with the Elite I league and am not a big name guy so I don't know if I could handle it. I think the Elite I league is good but the kids that I have named above should have gotten a very close look. Hockey Nut in So. MN

scottparker · Post by **scottparker** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:41 pm

Sioux Fan, I know that you're serious about all of this, and that makes one of my points. When the program allows for fiasco's like that West Metro program is in the middle of, the program suffers. When you put together a team that goes 17-1, you're doing it right. But some probably went 2-16 or something. Guess what, they don't last, the kids quit playing, and now it's just one or two teams. Isn't that sort of what happened to Project Prep?? You guys need to embrace the whole thing instead of just your team (talking about everyone, not you) and make the program better. Get the league director to work on this and then you'll have something (program) to be proud of, instead of one team. You carry so much credibility, but it is diminished when you bash the Elite program. Whether you're justified in not liking it, you sound like you're whining when you mention it. Let them do their thing, and you build this program up to contend with it. There will come a time (maybe sooner than later) that it won't carry so much "street cred". They have been doing something right to be where they are, you guys need to do the same thing. Maybe call it something else? I don't mean to sound like I'm bashing you. I think you bring so much to the table. Keep it up!!!

Sioux Fan · Post by **Sioux Fan** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:58 pm

What I don't like is the appointment process and the lack of competitive pressure. What don't you get? Hockey Nut in So. MN

Sioux Fan · Post by **Sioux Fan** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:59 pm

What I like about it is the excellent support for the players and the scouting for the kids. I just think the kids would be better served by having to earn thier slots week in and week out. Hockey Nut in So. MN

Sioux Fan · Post by **Sioux Fan** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:15 pm

I think if you get the kids and work them and make it fun they get a lot done. I can't speak for the metro area maybe the experts have told all the kids what their chances are and it is all decided. I tell my guys that we are going to kick the door down and force our way into some jobs. I guess that is what I want is for a kid that is not the best at age 15 or 16 and is growing and getting stronger and working hard and getting better to still have a place to play and keep making progress and if it can get noticed that would be great. Cory Krogen from Marshall is a prime example on this years team. His high school coach nominated him for the Elite I and he wasn't even granted a tryout. He can play D and Forward and is a strong skater with a good shot. He is a wonderful young man and is very capable of being a top performer in the Elite I league. He was the best player in our camp. How can he not even get a tryout? Hockey Nut in So. MN

scottparker · Post by **scottparker** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:27 pm

S. Fan, I am actually one of your biggest fans and it's based on what you said in your last couple of posts. You're doing so much good for those kids, just make the Tier II (I hate that title, BTW) work for all those kids and make the program better. Maybe you guys should go back to the Project Prep name or something. One last thing. Whether I'm pro or con to Russo's program, you need to stay high on yours and forget them. I like it when you're pushing so hard like the last two posts showed. Good luck with those kids, and keep doing what you do best.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 4:37 pm

I am not sure if I can answer your question regarding the chance to tryout for Elite League, but I will give it a try. First, I must say that I do not look at southern kids unless they happen to be playing up north. So, no, I have not watched the young man in question. Tryouts for Elite League are not open tryouts. Very simply, that would make it unmanageable. And for a lot a waste of tiem and money. Those kids that are invited in, for the most part, are elite. Identifying the top 60 in the state could be done by most, but the guys that watch for the league are very good at looking at and evaluating talent. (The last few years have been a great experience for me personally just to interact and learn from these guys). To get to tryouts you need to be nominated or added to the list by the people watching. Several kids are nominated. NOt all are invited. Again, the system will only handle so many. To the question, why wasn't the young man invited. First, he is from Marshall. DO NOT JUMP all over me for making this statement. BUT, look at their schedule. Look at their season. Not as strong as a Warroad or Edina or a Rochester team's schedule - nor as good a finish. Team ranking somewhere around a 100 or so out of the 160 or so teams. BUT, still the young man may have been a horse among not so strong players. Was he in the top 125 or so in scoring in the state? No, even though his team scored in excess of 100 goals last year. Was he on the radar? Yes, definitely. But he did not make it 'above the line'. Is he a good player? Sure. Does he have a futire inhockey after high school? Possibly. Should he be in the elite league? Based on what he has accomplished? Probably not. Probably? Right, no system is perfect. There are cracks. But you have cracks because of cost/benefit; evaluator shortcomings; player failures at the wrong time. I must add John Russo Sr. goes out of his way to make sure 1 - the small programs have a shot. 2 - the unknown programs have a shot. 3 - the small (in stature) player has a shot. I am sure the kid is doing great at your tryouts. But again, he is a 1987 year senior on the ice with kids 2 and 3 years younger. If he was not one of your best, he would not be there. Just to add, and please others do not BASH me again for sticking up for John, but John does a wonderful job for the young hockey players in southern MN. He has great enthusiasm, energy, and hockey skills. And he promotes the kids. Good luck and be nice to the Section 8 kids.

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:12 pm

Your comments were very insightful. The reasoning behind said player not getting a nomination to the Elite league, are the reasons that kids to transfer to bigger named, high profile schools. HM has 7 in the league? People say that if you are talented, you will get your shot, except if your HS team is in the bottom third in the state. If I have a very talented player at a small, unknown school, why not transfer him to a prominent school where he can play with kids talented enough to help him get the stats that you guys look for? Gotta go, junior is due at hockey practice in an hour.<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D">

Sioux Fan · Post by **Sioux Fan** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:15 pm

Mr. Elliot I respect your opinion. But I don't get the lingo. 87 senior. I know that Cory K works his whatever off every shift for the two or three years I have had him. I think that a one day tryout with all the experts having said their say is a lot different than 45 minutes of 3 on 3 when there is really not much doubt. And if there is doubt let em keep competing for ice time on the same team. What is with you guys you don't understand every junior team and College team has between 23 and 28 guys... Why is Elite I Exclusive to internal team competition. Why can't they call a top performer from our league to see if he can play with the big boys???? 3rd and 4th line performers vs our top 3 of 5 forwards.. I tried to call John Russo and inquire about his selection process in our area and he has never even returned my call. He knows everything. BS!! He is a good organizer and has done a very nice job with the league. He has done a better job getting some kids from our area. I would like them to get a leadership role now and then and be believed in like I believe in them. He doesn't know our kids and has little respect for our guys. Your comment Marshall? is very puzzling.. I am talking about a great kid that would rise up to whatever challenges you throw at him. I wish he would get a shot to go to a couple of workouts with the great Elite I Clubs and see if he wouldn't kick tail up there. I think your evaluation process is the same good old boys network and I point to examples like my Brother Mike who couldn't hardly skate and chew gum when he was 16 and was a top performer in the USHL and could have signed several pro contracts. One thing he knew is he had to work his tail off to get anywhere. I think that is a good lesson. I often talk to people in the Shattuck program and laugh and say wouldn't it be more fun to have to fasten your hat an play our kids than to figure skate with our Elite guys. Elliot I remember a game when you guys had some nice guys like DeMarchi and the Lundbohm boy and the Klema's and a young man from New Ulm ??? Rochester Lourdes and Austin.. After a period or so the Klema boys didn't want the puck any longer.. All of the guys on our team played Division 3. All the guys on the North team or a good percentage were D-1 USHL.... I guess Canzanello and Jakaitis and Hartman were D-1. Score of the game was Section 1 7 Section 8 1 Jake Brandt in the net for Section 8 Jeff Jakaitis for us... pretty good groups.. I think you have wonderful boys up there but we don't take a back seat to anyone. Hockey Nut in So. MN

mnrookie21 · Post by **mnrookie21** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:17 pm

i don't clearly understand the whole elite I/elite II deal, but i do understand that the name of this thread is "...section 1a/1aa..." HOWEVER, i noticed that 4 kids from faribault made the roster. last i checked, faribault was going to be playing in section 6a this year (2005-06). how does that work?? is the elite II league in the fall or spring??

Sioux Fan · Post by **Sioux Fan** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:26 pm

I kept the Faribault kids because it is easier for them to make practice with us. And I love em. Hockey Nut in So. MN

Sioux Fan · Post by **Sioux Fan** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 5:31 pm

I don't even want to get into the Tim Kirby from Austin discussion. He can flat out play and was not taken. He was going to work out with the Owatonna Jr Team and now is not playing with anyone but may join the other Wells Fargo Stage Coach team down here. He was outstanding in the Advanced 17 tourney a +8 and not on the ice for a goal against. I think he had 4 points on the 11 or so goals we got. Who moved on the Two Shattuck D and Canzanello, I think Nick is great but Timmy was much better in our end and he can play offense too! I wanted em all to go. But really who needs the exposure more a guy from Austin or a guy that can sign for cash from a high profile program like Shattuck.. In my mind Tm Kirby would thump Dowzak day after day. Hockey Nut in So. MNEdited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... xfan>Sioux Fan</A> at: 9/5/05 12:22 pm

bdabbt75 · Post by **bdabbt75** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:05 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>To the question, why wasn't the young man invited. First, he is from Marshall. DO NOT JUMP all over me for making this statement. BUT, look at their schedule. Look at their season. Not as strong as a Warroad or Edina or a Rochester team's schedule - nor as good a finish. Team ranking somewhere around a 100 or so out of the 160 or so teams. <hr></blockquote> a couple names came to mind when I read this... David Backes and Jamie Hoffman. by your definition, those kids were not elite material. Oh well. Back in the day... the purpose of the elite league was to keep kids in thier own HS. What you're now telling all proto-elite kids in Marshall, new prague, new ulm, etc. your team is subpar, therefore you as a player can't be any better 2nd class. Transfer to a real high school, or go to Juniors. But by our[elite] definition, you can't be elite. You prefer a Kilpatrick transfer to AHA as a Sophomore than to stay in new prague, because in NP you can't gauge him as a 'talent'? That's a hoot. The school and it's hockey program a kid is proud to be a part of and the program's competition should not be any criteria of elite selection. Put the kid on the ice and skate them against others. With all the sponsorship of the Elite program, make the first 2 hours of ice time free. If the kid can't skate, can't pass, can't shoot, cut his a**, and move on. The more I read stuff like this, the more I like the old days of Project Prep. and Sioux Fan's Teams just seem to 'work' in just about every definition of the term.

goldy313 · Post by **goldy313** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:00 pm

Elliot, I generally agree with you, but you condridict yourself here. Marhall is a 102 ranked team, the logic you use then should also keep any kid from Wadena (100), Kittson Central (105), Princeton (96) or Detroit Lakes (101) out of the league as well. Yet they make it, why? None of those teams play any tougher schedule than Marshall did last year. Until things with the Elite League get fixed (7 kids from Hill-Murray, 3 goalies from Moorhead just to name a couple) the league will never be what it is advertised as. Tim Kirby plays for the Austin Greyhounds in the Class B amateur baseball state tournament this weekend. Go Hounds!!!

powerplay009 · Post by **powerplay009** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:26 pm

Why isn't Kirby playing Elite II this fall then if he is not playing on an Elite I team or on a Junior team? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... play009</A> at: 8/31/05 7:38 pm

powerplay009 · Post by **powerplay009** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 8:30 pm

Jared Hummel now playing for the Stampede made the same move as Kilpatrick. Hummel started out in Marshall and he made the move and he ended up AHA. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... play009</A> at: 8/31/05 8:30 pm

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:03 pm

As I thought, the logic of the 'Marshall' comment was lost on most of you. A kid playing for Moorhead has a 20 goal season, a kid from Hallock has a 12 goal season - which one catches your eye? Probably the Moorhead kid and he gets a shot at a tryout. Again, I was trying to define why this young man did not get an invite - all the circumstances combined together. John, Do the south kids get teh same shot as the north kids, the metro kids - maybe not - but that is not what I was trying to answer. And your brother would not have been on elite 1, 2, or 3 if he could barely skate - but took the leason well and worrked hard. The elite league & elite 2 cannot possible handle all the kids out there that are willing to work hard. And not to answer for John, but if you have an established program running fine do you subject it to change to allow a few kids an opportunity when you have alternates that you are already trying to fit in somewhere. Elite 2 is getting ashed elsewhere (on here and other places). The elite league gets the same. Bottom line - each league has a system and they provide kids an opportunity. Neither is perfect because perfect is unobtainable goal. As President Lincoln said (paraphrased) - you cannot please all the people. And yet we disagree, I believe John N is still doing a wonderful job. Oh and to whoever said by this definition we should not take Wadena etc kids (agian not an exact quote) - we do, as you know. As I said J Russo Sr. goes out of his way to promote those kids. Even though I am defending the program, I hope more so to explain how things work so more people are informed.

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:31 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>A kid playing for Moorhead has a 20 goal season, a kid from Hallock has a 12 goal season - which one catches your eye?<hr></blockquote> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Probably the Moorhead kid and he gets a shot at a tryout.<hr></blockquote> Thats it in a nutshell. Why would Hummel, or a top talent at a subpar program stay, when the elite evaluators think this? I would say that the Kid from Hallock with 12 goals is more impressive. How many guys on that team could even skate fourth line for Moorhead? See my point, the 12 goal kid is doing it without a team full of talented guys with him. He would be lucky to have two. Why not invite that kid to a tryout and see what he does when he plays with the Moorhead stud. At least then the kid knows that he at got a look. Looks like I need to move to Moorhead or Stillwater, so my boy can have a fair shake at being an Elite. To Souix Fan: I think that they need to DROP the West Metro team for next year and go back to strictly HS Section lines. Apparently the West Metro team was added to give the league 9 teams and reduce travel fro Elk River, Buffalo, Monticello and St. Cloud. Each weekend, a team would host two other teams for a game each and that would mean there are three host sites. If they go back to 8 teams, they could have two host sites with 3 teams each and have the other two teams schedule a practice (after all, it is for development right?) or meet for two games at a nuetral distance site to reduce travel expenses. Also find a site (lets look at Section 8, Buffalo to Warroad) that is centrally located, as much as possible, or when its that teams turn to host, move it to the other end of the Section. Again, I would like to see this league flourish and feel it could be a great league for our kids to develop. Look at the youth hockey section on this board and you'll find a few threads on the trend towards winter AAA hockey. The MSHSL limits game and thats fine, but AAA midgets plays twice as many. Lets keep our kids local. How about adding a Tier III league for bantam aged (8th and 9th grade) or just Freshman and Sophomores. Tier II for Juniors and Seniors? Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... RLStars</A> at: 8/31/05 8:39 pm

puckhead89 · Post by **puckhead89** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 9:51 pm

No, you need to read more closely. Sioux Fax has admitted time and time again, on this very post, he takes more than 25. I emphasize I DON'T CARE HOW MANY ALTERNATES A TEAM TAKES......JUST ALL TEAMS TAKE THE SAME AMOUNT. It is a simple organizational method to implement, within the Elite II, and I am at a loss as to why this is even an option. As to me being cut this year, er....this is the second time I have had to respond to one of you: "I blush at the thought you think I am so young. Thank you." Perhaps I sound like I have been cut because I have as much passion about the kids as Sioux Fan? Perhaps I sound upset because I feel the Elite II league doesn't respond well to constructive criticism. I will say this again: I am not a naysayer to this program's concept, but it won't suceed if it comes off as a disorganized, willy nilly project. People become frustrated with programs that have too many rules that they don't understand...but a program with little guidelines is just as frustrating. Then you add the West Metro lack in ability to get it done right, it just makes the whole program look....well, frankly, like crap. And then I read these posts on how this Elite II is considered second rate......yeah that makes the nominating coaches, kids and paying parents really want to be a part of this.

defencewinsgames · Post by **defencewinsgames** » Wed Aug 31, 2005 11:13 pm

ITS NOT ABOUT ###-- ITS ABOUT THE ABILITY TO COMPETE!! JN and his bro seem to be players with above ave talent with great heart. They internalized "its me or you buddy but its not going to be you". I feel JN feels players like his players compete because he feels hard work beats talent when talent doesnt work hard!! Although he appreciates players like himself who are percervied as competitive because of work ethic, he understands that glorified elite players, or those "given" who dont have this quality eventually run into players with equal ability with "me or you" mindset. He gives examples of last year-Owatonna- Rochester-ALEA Austin Skaters Nahl Tenders, while many anointed elite playes are on the JR cut list. Rochester Goalie USHL #3 pick overall when 3 Moorhead goalies are picked????? His teams probobly do somewhat better because good players dont make elite league???? All his players benifit from competition not only against teams but amoung teammates. Thanks JN for your passion and commitment to the underdog- your top half will outdo the elites bottom half!!<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)">

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2005 SECTION 1A/1AA Elite II Roster as of 08/30/2005

Re: 2005 SECTION 1A/1AA Elite II Roster as of 08/30/2005

Re: 2005 SECTION 1A/1AA Elite II Roster as of 08/30/2005

Is Hockey ALL about scoring?

Sioux Fan??

Re: Sioux Fan??

Re: Sioux Fan??

Made at least part of my point

Re: Made at least part of my point

Re: 2005 SECTION 1A/1AA Elite II Roster as of 08/30/2005

Re: 2005 SECTION 1A/1AA Elite II Roster as of 08/30/2005

Re: 2005 SECTION 1A/1AA Elite II Roster as of 08/30/2005

John N.

Elliott

Re: John N.

Re: John N.

Re: John N.

Re: John N.

Re: John N.

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Re: John N.

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Re: John N.

Elliott

Re: I35hockey

missing the point