Where did most of these St Thomas kids play their yth hockey

[keepyourheadup]

Kloos likely wouldn't have played with Shroeder and Reid. Kroska is a very good player and would have anchored the first line with the other two. Second line could have been Kloos, Osterberg and Harvey. Now that could have been pretty troubling for opposing teams. The guys that chose STA have had great careers there and have played in many big games, as much as we would have loved to have them stay together it just wasn't meant to be.

[eastside hockey]

Ya, but if STA, Breck, Totino, etc. all moved up then everyone would be complaining about watching an all private team tourney, and say all the public schools deserve to have their own state tourney

But lets say STA did move up and pretend they were in the tourney instead of say...Eden Prairie (just an example). Then theres another team you can add to the list of teams that deserve to be in the tourney that aren't there. This way you can see both teams. If they dont want to move up so be it.

In reality public school programs can develope players through the ranks and have a good sense how the team will be in upcoming years(yes they could lose some to to transfer, juniors, etc). STA was not really even on the hockey map 10 years ago and if you ask them what their future holds 5-6 years down the road they really have no idea. You can assume good players will continue to enroll there, but you really dont know, maybe they will go back to where they were 10 years ago or maybe the MSHSL will make more restrictions to transfering. Ask a team like Eden Prairie the same question and they can just look at the Peewee program and you can have an idea of how they will be 5-6 years down the road.

I can agree with your forecasting on a future team in the private schoold will be difficult. If STA is truely that good on a given year, I would rather see them play against the big boys. If that means not seeing Eden prairie or any other perennial power house for that year , so be it. it is exactly what happens every year now in section 2AA and 6AA. That is the magic of section playoffs. There can only be one! Imagine if BSM or HM oppted down to classA. we could really break some tourney records now. I just think the game tonight was a joke, and an embarrasing display of STA dominance over schools who truely reflect class A schools trying to put together a competitive team from their local kids.

[PuckU126]

Ya, but if STA, Breck, Totino, etc. all moved up then everyone would be complaining about watching an all private team tourney, and say all the public schools deserve to have their own state tourney

But lets say STA did move up and pretend they were in the tourney instead of say...Eden Prairie (just an example). Then theres another team you can add to the list of teams that deserve to be in the tourney that aren't there. This way you can see both teams. If they dont want to move up so be it.

In reality public school programs can develope players through the ranks and have a good sense how the team will be in upcoming years(yes they could lose some to to transfer, juniors, etc). STA was not really even on the hockey map 10 years ago and if you ask them what their future holds 5-6 years down the road they really have no idea. You can assume good players will continue to enroll there, but you really dont know, maybe they will go back to where they were 10 years ago or maybe the MSHSL will make more restrictions to transfering. Ask a team like Eden Prairie the same question and they can just look at the Peewee program and you can have an idea of how they will be 5-6 years down the road.

I can agree with your forecasting on a future team in the private schoold will be difficult. If STA is truely that good on a given year, I would rather see them play against the big boys. If that means not seeing Eden prairie or any other perennial power house for that year , so be it. it is exactly what happens every year now in section 2AA and 6AA. That is the magic of section playoffs. There can only be one! Imagine if BSM or HM oppted down to classA. we could really break some tourney records now. I just think the game tonight was a joke, and an embarrasing display of STA dominance over schools who truely reflect class A schools trying to put together a competitive team from their local kids.

The STA game was terrible, and everyone hates to see games like that.

But everyone should take into account TRF beat the 2 time champions, "evil" private school Breck. AND Hibbing defeated Lourdes as well!

Small city organizations can prevail and defeat the private organizations; the private systems are not dominating the State! Class AA doesn't have any privates in the Tourney this year as well!

New Ulm is a developing hockey program, and they have years to go in order to establish a solid program. I just wish games like the STA, New Ulm never did happen.

FYI, this is coming from a person that thinks STA can and should opt up.

[ICE23]

Ya, but if STA, Breck, Totino, etc. all moved up then everyone would be complaining about watching an all private team tourney, and say all the public schools deserve to have their own state tourney

But lets say STA did move up and pretend they were in the tourney instead of say...Eden Prairie (just an example). Then theres another team you can add to the list of teams that deserve to be in the tourney that aren't there. This way you can see both teams. If they dont want to move up so be it.

In reality public school programs can develope players through the ranks and have a good sense how the team will be in upcoming years(yes they could lose some to to transfer, juniors, etc). STA was not really even on the hockey map 10 years ago and if you ask them what their future holds 5-6 years down the road they really have no idea. You can assume good players will continue to enroll there, but you really dont know, maybe they will go back to where they were 10 years ago or maybe the MSHSL will make more restrictions to transfering. Ask a team like Eden Prairie the same question and they can just look at the Peewee program and you can have an idea of how they will be 5-6 years down the road.

I can agree with your forecasting on a future team in the private schoold will be difficult. If STA is truely that good on a given year, I would rather see them play against the big boys. If that means not seeing Eden prairie or any other perennial power house for that year , so be it. it is exactly what happens every year now in section 2AA and 6AA. That is the magic of section playoffs. There can only be one! Imagine if BSM or HM oppted down to classA. we could really break some tourney records now. I just think the game tonight was a joke, and an embarrasing display of STA dominance over schools who truely reflect class A schools trying to put together a competitive team from their local kids.

Well was it a reflection of their dominance over single A caliber teams or a reflection of the range of talent the sections are. Since the 1-4 teams are seeded and their opponent is random, say New Ulm drew Hermantown. Similar result? I'd say almost identical. Switch New Ulm with a better team that didnt make it like Warroad and you have a tight game. Now I'm not saying they need to redue the sections so the talent is equal, that would be ridiculous (more fun? yes). The thing with single A is you have a select few of elite teams that can skate with AA teams. And since the sections are done by location, weak teams will sneak in and it takes a quarterfinals to filter out those teams. I think the A semi's are gonna all be tight exciting games.

[Nostalgic Nerd]

Ya, but if STA, Breck, Totino, etc. all moved up then everyone would be complaining about watching an all private team tourney, and say all the public schools deserve to have their own state tourney

But lets say STA did move up and pretend they were in the tourney instead of say...Eden Prairie (just an example). Then theres another team you can add to the list of teams that deserve to be in the tourney that aren't there. This way you can see both teams. If they dont want to move up so be it.

In reality public school programs can develope players through the ranks and have a good sense how the team will be in upcoming years(yes they could lose some to to transfer, juniors, etc). STA was not really even on the hockey map 10 years ago and if you ask them what their future holds 5-6 years down the road they really have no idea. You can assume good players will continue to enroll there, but you really dont know, maybe they will go back to where they were 10 years ago or maybe the MSHSL will make more restrictions to transfering. Ask a team like Eden Prairie the same question and they can just look at the Peewee program and you can have an idea of how they will be 5-6 years down the road.

I can agree with your forecasting on a future team in the private schoold will be difficult. If STA is truely that good on a given year, I would rather see them play against the big boys. If that means not seeing Eden prairie or any other perennial power house for that year , so be it. it is exactly what happens every year now in section 2AA and 6AA. That is the magic of section playoffs. There can only be one! Imagine if BSM or HM oppted down to classA. we could really break some tourney records now. I just think the game tonight was a joke, and an embarrasing display of STA dominance over schools who truely reflect class A schools trying to put together a competitive team from their local kids.

But manipulation of the hockey system doesn't just come in the form of private school recruitments. The class A tournament in itself is manipulation since it was created for the purpose of giving the David's "a chance."

[HShockeywatcher]

Ya, but if STA, Breck, Totino, etc. all moved up then everyone would be complaining about watching an all private team tourney, and say all the public schools deserve to have their own state tourney

But lets say STA did move up and pretend they were in the tourney instead of say...Eden Prairie (just an example). Then theres another team you can add to the list of teams that deserve to be in the tourney that aren't there. This way you can see both teams. If they dont want to move up so be it.

In reality public school programs can develope players through the ranks and have a good sense how the team will be in upcoming years(yes they could lose some to to transfer, juniors, etc). STA was not really even on the hockey map 10 years ago and if you ask them what their future holds 5-6 years down the road they really have no idea. You can assume good players will continue to enroll there, but you really dont know, maybe they will go back to where they were 10 years ago or maybe the MSHSL will make more restrictions to transfering. Ask a team like Eden Prairie the same question and they can just look at the Peewee program and you can have an idea of how they will be 5-6 years down the road.

I can agree with your forecasting on a future team in the private schoold will be difficult. If STA is truely that good on a given year, I would rather see them play against the big boys. If that means not seeing Eden prairie or any other perennial power house for that year , so be it. it is exactly what happens every year now in section 2AA and 6AA. That is the magic of section playoffs. There can only be one! Imagine if BSM or HM oppted down to classA. we could really break some tourney records now. I just think the game tonight was a joke, and an embarrasing display of STA dominance over schools who truely reflect class A schools trying to put together a competitive team from their local kids.

Well was it a reflection of their dominance over single A caliber teams or a reflection of the range of talent the sections are. Since the 1-4 teams are seeded and their opponent is random, say New Ulm drew Hermantown. Similar result? I'd say almost identical. Switch New Ulm with a better team that didnt make it like Warroad and you have a tight game. Now I'm not saying they need to redue the sections so the talent is equal, that would be ridiculous (more fun? yes). The thing with single A is you have a select few of elite teams that can skate with AA teams. And since the sections are done by location, weak teams will sneak in and it takes a quarterfinals to filter out those teams. I think the A semi's are gonna all be tight exciting games.

The latter for sure. Most agree that all 8 teams should be seeded and by chance this year Class A happened that it was 1 v 8 and 2 v 7. You expect a program to roll their bottom lines at state?

Funny how every topic with St Thomas in it turns into a class topic

One thing to realize about what people are saying about the AA tourney being all private schools if all of them opted up is that there couldn't be many more than there are now; most would be in sections with current private schools. Assuming St Thomas were in 4AA or 3AA and made it, you'd have one, but I doubt Breck or Blake would make it out of 2AA or Lourdes out of 1AA.

New Ulm is a private school co-op...

[WB6162]

Mendota Heights, of course

I find it interesting how people think that the only justifiable way that a person would play hockey for a private school is if they lived next door to it. People don't go to St. Thomas, the only school of its kind in Minnesota, because it is convenient. I go to BSM (yes, I realize that according to high school hockey fans, that makes me a terrible person) and probably only 15% of the student body lives in St. Louis Park. Why should the hockey team be any different?

Nice sentence structure celly

[WB6162]

As much as I hate seeing New Ulm lose like that, I cannot say that Breck or St Thomas are evil empires.

Is it fair? Absolutely not. They should be playing AA if the majority of the kids on their teams played their youth hockey in large school associations. Life is not fair is the lesson learned.

St Thomas and Breck are raising wonderful young people as well as good athletes. These are kids that are prepared for a world without hockey when their playing days are over. I don't think all public school players can say that.

[old goalie85]

Kroska played for the fire. Dad is a FL grad. Some kids get opportunitys that others don't. That's life!!!!

[keepyourheadup]

He played for the fire for one year, the same year the current crop of seniors all left for STA. He played in Lakeville every year till then. Adam Peterson, also from Lakeville, did the same thing.

[keepyourheadup]

For what its worth, Kroska leaving to play with the Fire was more about who was leaving for STA than it was about getting an opportunity to play for the fire. The cupboard was left pretty bare when his classmates headed for varsity hockey at STA. Trust me, I had a ring side seat that year.

[Mite-dad]

Looks like STA should cruise through this tourney pretty easily. Maybe Hermantown will give them a decent game.

[BadgerBob82]

keepyourheadup: Maybe you could explain why there was the mass exodus from Lakeville in those years? And why would a person leave just because a few players left the program? I don't understand what happened to cause this?

[keepyourheadup]

Badger I'll give it my best to try and explain but first let me say..this is just one mans opinion.

After the split of the high schools there was a group of very disenchanted families who right or wrong felt that neither school would be competitive for the short term. A number of very good players headed to STA and AHA. The success these players enjoyed helped create a belief that the only way to get noticed was to get out. This occurred about the time the current group was at the squirt/peewee level. As this group moved through the youth ranks, with considerable success, it became apparent that most of the top end kids had no intention of playing for the current head coach at LS. As the fall of 2007-2008 approached the new rules for transferring schools took effect which forced the very core of this years graduating class to make a decision on their future. That fall 6 LS kids headed to STA. four played varsity and won a title, the other two chose the fire rather than play bantams in Lakeville.
It was hard to swallow at the time but its worked out just fine for almost all parties involved. It gave 6 more kids the chance to play high school hockey when they might not otherwise have gotten the chance. I think the theory that you can't get noticed in Lakeville has been pretty much disproved but the other factors involved are still alive and well today.

Understand this is a hockey only point of view, I'm sure the academic benefits are also part of the equation.

[keeponcoachin"]

Watching last nite's A tourney games with the privates all having their "teams" step on the ice and knowing that very few of these kids played together in squirt,pee wee A or B teams and then bantam A, B, C teams and then sticking it out because the HS teams needed the kids and their #'s to have a team as there were spots for all of them on varsity and JV and representing their TOWNS and their youth associations made me ill. Having my son tell me that " do you know that St Thomas has over 1000 kids in their enrollment...and all of them are boys...how can that be fair" stuck another note of sadness in my heart as well. The history of MN HS hockey and the state tourney was founded on communities sending THEIR young men to the tourney as an honor and a lifetime memory for all. Now its come down to..." let's grab kids from all over, as many of the best ones we can and go stomp on some of these "true" A teams!". New Ulm, Alexandria, TRF, Hibbing are all made up of kids that sat in the same lunch room in elementary school, played on the same summer baseball teams and car pooled all over the state as kids. Of course they are proud to make the tourney but c'mon! Now they have to play a team from 6-7 different towns? The MSHL better sit down, see how this is eroding the pride and joy of this tourney and either make a conference of all privates or move them to AA by figuring out where each kid comes from, add in that school boundary/district enrollment where their family lives and then lets see how many private "teams" can still legitimately be an A program. This really gets tiring yr after yr.

[WB6162]

[quote="keeponcoachin""]Watching last nite's A tourney games with the privates all having their "teams" step on the ice and knowing that very few of these kids played together in squirt,pee wee A or B teams and then bantam A, B, C teams and then sticking it out because the HS teams needed the kids and their #'s to have a team as there were spots for all of them on varsity and JV and representing their TOWNS and their youth associations made me ill. Having my son tell me that " do you know that St Thomas has over 1000 kids in their enrollment...and all of them are boys...how can that be fair" stuck another note of sadness in my heart as well. The history of MN HS hockey and the state tourney was founded on communities sending THEIR young men to the tourney as an honor and a lifetime memory for all. Now its come down to..." let's grab kids from all over, as many of the best ones we can and go stomp on some of these "true" A teams!". New Ulm, Alexandria, TRF, Hibbing are all made up of kids that sat in the same lunch room in elementary school, played on the same summer baseball teams and car pooled all over the state as kids. Of course they are proud to make the tourney but c'mon! Now they have to play a team from 6-7 different towns? The MSHL better sit down, see how this is eroding the pride and joy of this tourney and either make a conference of all privates or move them to AA by figuring out where each kid comes from, add in that school boundary/district enrollment where their family lives and then lets see how many private "teams" can still legitimately be an A program. This really gets tiring yr after yr.[/quote]

Great post from the heart. I don't disagree with a word. I think one solution is give the private schools one slot in each tourney. How they arrange that is for someone more knowledable than me to figure out.

Also, enrollment numbers to determine class is not fair either. Maybe all metro private schools should be AA. I think that's a fair solution.

BTW, this is coming from a private school parent. My son played hockey through bantams but then decided his academic load was too much to allow the time they require for hockey in HS.

[MrBoDangles]

[quote="keeponcoachin""]Watching last nite's A tourney games with the privates all having their "teams" step on the ice and knowing that very few of these kids played together in squirt,pee wee A or B teams and then bantam A, B, C teams and then sticking it out because the HS teams needed the kids and their #'s to have a team as there were spots for all of them on varsity and JV and representing their TOWNS and their youth associations made me ill. Having my son tell me that " do you know that St Thomas has over 1000 kids in their enrollment...and all of them are boys...how can that be fair" stuck another note of sadness in my heart as well. The history of MN HS hockey and the state tourney was founded on communities sending THEIR young men to the tourney as an honor and a lifetime memory for all. Now its come down to..." let's grab kids from all over, as many of the best ones we can and go stomp on some of these "true" A teams!". New Ulm, Alexandria, TRF, Hibbing are all made up of kids that sat in the same lunch room in elementary school, played on the same summer baseball teams and car pooled all over the state as kids. Of course they are proud to make the tourney but c'mon! Now they have to play a team from 6-7 different towns? The MSHL better sit down, see how this is eroding the pride and joy of this tourney and either make a conference of all privates or move them to AA by figuring out where each kid comes from, add in that school boundary/district enrollment where their family lives and then lets see how many private "teams" can still legitimately be an A program. This really gets tiring yr after yr.[/quote]

[BadgerBob82]

I too agree with keeponcoachin!

I would suggest the MSHSL eliminate varsity level play for any student using open enrollment to leave the school serving their house address. Move, rent, do what you want, but no open enrollment for varsity sports.

As for the privates, if you live outside of a bussing zone, or outside of the district in which you live, you are considered an open enrollment student and no varsity sports.

OR, place all Privates in AA if they have students from outside a bussing zone.

Last I looked on H-M website, they have very specific bussing boundaries. I assume other privates do too?

[BadgerBob82]

Unrelated, but popped in my head. Would the entire Class A tournament attendance total a sellout of the X?

[stpaul]

St. Thomas has enrollment of 533 boys in grades 9-12, not over 1000. Your notion of public high schools representing towns or city neighborhoods may have been true in the distant past but is long gone. Private schools have always existed and have been in the MSHSL for 37 years. Parents looking for the best athletic opportunities for top athletes has been going on for decades and is not limited to private schools. Private schools are the obvious bad guys in your view. But how about when a kid moves through open enrollment, an actual housing move or other means to play for a better public high school team. Check out Hopkins basketball for instance. They certainly don't represent the town of Hopkins anymore. How about all the kids to go play in the NAHL, USHL or NDTP? Are you just as upset if, for example, Moorhead makes it to state with a star player from Fargo or a goalie from Alexandria? The fact is high school hockey and other sports are played by kids who are enrolled and attending that high school no matter how they got there. As long as the school abides by MSHSL rules it will remain as it is. I too have fond memories of International Falls playing the eastsiders from St. Paul Johnson in the state final but that was nearly 50 years ago. Times have changes and St. Thomas Academy is not the reason. It's a great school. They don't have to apologize for having nice facilities, top coaches, top academics, expectations & discipline, a great history & traditions, religion, supportive parents & alumni...or for beating New Ulm 13-2.

[DMom]

I too agree with keeponcoachin!

I would suggest the MSHSL eliminate varsity level play for any student using open enrollment to leave the school serving their house address. Move, rent, do what you want, but no open enrollment for varsity sports.

As for the privates, if you live outside of a bussing zone, or outside of the district in which you live, you are considered an open enrollment student and no varsity sports.

OR, place all Privates in AA if they have students from outside a bussing zone.

Last I looked on H-M website, they have very specific bussing boundaries. I assume other privates do too?

I have no idea, but we are thirty miles away and they pick up at the local gas station at 6am.

[BadgerBob82]

Dmom: I should have added "FREE" bussing.

[ogelthorpe]

I tend to agree that the private schools get unfairly labeled as the evil recruiters. I am an alum of Thief River Falls and played in the early 90's, guess what three of top players in my grade played for either Roseau or Warroad. The top programs will always "steal" top players whether they are private or public, the only difference being private schools need to recruit all their players where public only needs to supplement. I would love to see a stat of how many public school players played in the youth program of that commumity from squirts on (expecially smaller communities like the aforementioned Roseau and Warroad).

[observer]

They don't have to apologize for having nice facilities, top coaches, top academics, expectations & discipline, a great history & traditions, religion, supportive parents & alumni...or for beating New Ulm 13-2.

But, they do have to apologize for being single A.

keeponcoachin mentions these are top players, from top large associations, and shouldn't be near the single A tourney which should be for small town teams only. I agree. I can't figure why STA declined the invitation to join AA. Most metro private players are single sport specialists, metro players have an unbelievable amount of off season training options, and the small town players are playing football, baseball, track, tennis, etc. because the schools need them to participate in more than just one sport.

Frankly, I think it's cost STA, and Breck, some of the top players because the players and families do want to play for the best teams and AA. Kinda second tier privates and players. It costs the players, some of whom are very good, the attention that the AA players receive.

[Jimbo99]

St. Thomas has enrollment of 533 boys in grades 9-12, not over 1000. Your notion of public high schools representing towns or city neighborhoods may have been true in the distant past but is long gone. Private schools have always existed and have been in the MSHSL for 37 years. Parents looking for the best athletic opportunities for top athletes has been going on for decades and is not limited to private schools. Private schools are the obvious bad guys in your view. But how about when a kid moves through open enrollment, an actual housing move or other means to play for a better public high school team. Check out Hopkins basketball for instance. They certainly don't represent the town of Hopkins anymore. How about all the kids to go play in the NAHL, USHL or NDTP? Are you just as upset if, for example, Moorhead makes it to state with a star player from Fargo or a goalie from Alexandria? The fact is high school hockey and other sports are played by kids who are enrolled and attending that high school no matter how they got there. As long as the school abides by MSHSL rules it will remain as it is. I too have fond memories of International Falls playing the eastsiders from St. Paul Johnson in the state final but that was nearly 50 years ago. Times have changes and St. Thomas Academy is not the reason. It's a great school. They don't have to apologize for having nice facilities, top coaches, top academics, expectations & discipline, a great history & traditions, religion, supportive parents & alumni...or for beating New Ulm 13-2.

I love the romantic stories of the past too (whether they are about how things actually were or just how we thought they were) but the post above is the one that rings true.

However, STA playing in the A tourney is still just plain wrong.