They don't have their own rink. The rink is co-owned and shared with the UST men's and women's teams. Local teams use the rink as well.goldy313 wrote:All teams with their own rink should be AA, when over 80% of the Class A teams don't even have year around ice yet STA has an on campus rink you lose credibility with the poor us routine we're just like Sleepy Eye St Mary's (enrollment 141).
STA
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
who cares???
St. Thomas won the tournement that is called the Minnesota State High School League Class A Boys Hockey tournement. Why? They are placed in class A. Hermantown is placed in class A. Thief River Falls is in Class A, Warroad is in class A. I hate the TC area private schools as much as the next guy, but I am not calling for them to go to class AA. GO ahead, take St Thomas out of class A, take Breck out of class A. Take Totino out of Class A, take Lourdes, Marshal school, St. Cloud Cathedral out of class A..... then Hermantown... or possibly TRF could have a championship. You want that??? you want to have a championship in a tournement without any drama??? without a big bad guy??? what is that??? give it up. It is bad enough that we went to two classes, now people want to take the best teams out of Class A.... we had the two tier tournement, no good. Leave it alone. I hate watching the Cadidiots taking their championship as anyone, but without it, how great is it to win????
St. Thomas won the tournement that is called the Minnesota State High School League Class A Boys Hockey tournement. Why? They are placed in class A. Hermantown is placed in class A. Thief River Falls is in Class A, Warroad is in class A. I hate the TC area private schools as much as the next guy, but I am not calling for them to go to class AA. GO ahead, take St Thomas out of class A, take Breck out of class A. Take Totino out of Class A, take Lourdes, Marshal school, St. Cloud Cathedral out of class A..... then Hermantown... or possibly TRF could have a championship. You want that??? you want to have a championship in a tournement without any drama??? without a big bad guy??? what is that??? give it up. It is bad enough that we went to two classes, now people want to take the best teams out of Class A.... we had the two tier tournement, no good. Leave it alone. I hate watching the Cadidiots taking their championship as anyone, but without it, how great is it to win????
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West Hockey
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:58 pm
- Location: Western Metro
I think that the issue is greater than just STA (and even greater than hockey) The issue is about private schools (big or small) cherry picking top players out of an association.
Youth associations in both large and small communities put a tremendous amount of time and effort into developing a program. The local high school coaches are involved--players are involved--booster clubs are involved. When an association develops a talented player, only to have that player get recruited away, the association--and eventually the high school associated with that associaion--suffers.
Does STA have a youth program? Does Breck? Blake? Benilde? HM? Have the head coaches at those private schools been participating in, and contributing to, the development of those players since the age of 5? Or, do they scout the local Bantams, and attempt to put together an all-star team from a collection of 6 or 7 associations? It's hard to keep a straight face when you say that HM and STA hasn't hurt Park Cottage Grove, or decimated the South St. Paul boys programs.
If you put all of the private schools into one section, thereby sending 1 school to the state tournament, instead of 5, then you'd see a reduction in the number of private schools raiding associations.
Youth associations in both large and small communities put a tremendous amount of time and effort into developing a program. The local high school coaches are involved--players are involved--booster clubs are involved. When an association develops a talented player, only to have that player get recruited away, the association--and eventually the high school associated with that associaion--suffers.
Does STA have a youth program? Does Breck? Blake? Benilde? HM? Have the head coaches at those private schools been participating in, and contributing to, the development of those players since the age of 5? Or, do they scout the local Bantams, and attempt to put together an all-star team from a collection of 6 or 7 associations? It's hard to keep a straight face when you say that HM and STA hasn't hurt Park Cottage Grove, or decimated the South St. Paul boys programs.
If you put all of the private schools into one section, thereby sending 1 school to the state tournament, instead of 5, then you'd see a reduction in the number of private schools raiding associations.
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Rossbury21
- Posts: 308
- Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:44 am
- Location: BSU/Twin Cities
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lifterpuller
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:22 pm
I’m originally from the Iron Range and I think STA is fine where they are. I do think they could compete at an AA level but in all honesty so could many other public schools. The recruiting thing is silly. This happens anytime you have a good program near weaker program. The athletes go where they feel they can excel or win. With open enrollment this will continue to happen everywhere. There is definitely an advantage for schools in urban areas, because there are more programs grouped more closely so you can pull together better players to fill out your roster. This isn’t any different for private schools than it is for public schools.
I think what many are missing when comparing “A” and “AA” schools are the only real difference is depth. The single “A” schools normally have 2 strong lines and “AA” teams have 3 or 4 strong lines, they don’t wear down during the course of the tournament or games as much. “A” hockey isn’t necessarily weak or JV hockey, anymore than all “AA” teams are good. I don’t think the multi-class tournament is about having bad teams at the tournament as much as allowing smaller schools which produce less depth because of the size of there student body.
Just my two cents.
I think what many are missing when comparing “A” and “AA” schools are the only real difference is depth. The single “A” schools normally have 2 strong lines and “AA” teams have 3 or 4 strong lines, they don’t wear down during the course of the tournament or games as much. “A” hockey isn’t necessarily weak or JV hockey, anymore than all “AA” teams are good. I don’t think the multi-class tournament is about having bad teams at the tournament as much as allowing smaller schools which produce less depth because of the size of there student body.
Just my two cents.
Since when do the public schools own these kids? You may forget that a lot of these city associations are full of kids that go to PRIVATE schools all their lives. Did you ever think of that?? People are given the choice of paying for the private school, or attending the public school. Some choose column a, some choose column b. No one owns these kids rights.West Hockey wrote:I think that the issue is greater than just STA (and even greater than hockey) The issue is about private schools (big or small) cherry picking top players out of an association.
Youth associations in both large and small communities put a tremendous amount of time and effort into developing a program. The local high school coaches are involved--players are involved--booster clubs are involved. When an association develops a talented player, only to have that player get recruited away, the association--and eventually the high school associated with that associaion--suffers.
Does STA have a youth program? Does Breck? Blake? Benilde? HM? Have the head coaches at those private schools been participating in, and contributing to, the development of those players since the age of 5? Or, do they scout the local Bantams, and attempt to put together an all-star team from a collection of 6 or 7 associations? It's hard to keep a straight face when you say that HM and STA hasn't hurt Park Cottage Grove, or decimated the South St. Paul boys programs.
If you put all of the private schools into one section, thereby sending 1 school to the state tournament, instead of 5, then you'd see a reduction in the number of private schools raiding associations.
State ‘83, ‘91, ‘08, ‘20
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warriors41
- Posts: 666
- Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:40 pm
You might not realize that youth associations are not tied to schools, they are tied to communities. That's the reason why private schools don't have youth teams. Is there a town called Hill Murray? Is there a town called Breck? Is there a town called Saint Thomas Academy? I can go on and on but you get the point.West Hockey wrote:I think that the issue is greater than just STA (and even greater than hockey) The issue is about private schools (big or small) cherry picking top players out of an association.
Youth associations in both large and small communities put a tremendous amount of time and effort into developing a program. The local high school coaches are involved--players are involved--booster clubs are involved. When an association develops a talented player, only to have that player get recruited away, the association--and eventually the high school associated with that associaion--suffers.
Does STA have a youth program? Does Breck? Blake? Benilde? HM? Have the head coaches at those private schools been participating in, and contributing to, the development of those players since the age of 5? Or, do they scout the local Bantams, and attempt to put together an all-star team from a collection of 6 or 7 associations? It's hard to keep a straight face when you say that HM and STA hasn't hurt Park Cottage Grove, or decimated the South St. Paul boys programs.
If you put all of the private schools into one section, thereby sending 1 school to the state tournament, instead of 5, then you'd see a reduction in the number of private schools raiding associations.
STA
No I really don't get the point. You just said that youth associations are not tied to schools. We are talking about school hockey.warriors41 wrote:You might not realize that youth associations are not tied to schools, they are tied to communities. That's the reason why private schools don't have youth teams. Is there a town called Hill Murray? Is there a town called Breck? Is there a town called Saint Thomas Academy? I can go on and on but you get the point.
I can't understand why STA wouldn't WANT to move up to AA. They have built a powerhouse that plays a AA schedule, so why not go for the ultimate prize in AA? I rooted for Hermantown today, because the Hermantown kids are home grown, have a link to the community, and represent their city. Why is STA's crowd so small? Because they don't have a community, just dorms and facilities that most public schools can't afford. I am from Hibbing, went to the tourney, and I experienced something fantastic: Hibbing natives from all over the state convening in St. Paul and coming together as a community. Everyone remembers from when they were young how the whole town was electrified by its hockey team making it to state. STA's titles just seem so hollow, like getting liposuction to lose weight instead of earning it by diet and exercise. If you dominate in A, move up. If you make it to state two or three times a decade, stay in A.
I am NOT a fan of St. Thomas Academy, Breck, The Blake School, Benidle-St. Margerates, Hill-Murray, Rochester Lourdes, DuLuth Marshal, St. Cloud Cathedral, Cretin-Derham Hall, Totino-Grace or any other private school. In fact I am a fan of any public school team who is playing against any private school. Is this not worth something??? These arguments against the private schools is so idilistic. Just because they can legally recruit players...big deal.
Lately I was talking to a person who played hockey at a small Iron Range community back when there was only one class in hockey. You know what those kids looked forward to??? They looked forward to going to the section championship game, because once you got there, you were only one game away from the state tournement and anything can happen in the championship game. Yes, they wanted nothing more than to play in the section championship in front of 5,000 fans at the Hibbing Memorial. They were in heaven if they ever got to skate in St. Paul in March.
I think we are spoiled as a society. Now, the section championship in most sections is not that big a deal. Ya, people get excited about getting the chance to go to state, but if they lose the section championship game, it is considered a failure and forgotten. This person told me exactly how many times his high school had played in this seciton championship EVER.
Now days evidently we not only have to get to state, we have to play agaisnt teams that are totally equall. Would this be any different if Warroad had won the championship??? No it wouldn't.
Bottom line is, this is the MSHSL tournement. The MSHSL is sponsoring it. This is how the MSHSL is deciding their champion.
Lately I was talking to a person who played hockey at a small Iron Range community back when there was only one class in hockey. You know what those kids looked forward to??? They looked forward to going to the section championship game, because once you got there, you were only one game away from the state tournement and anything can happen in the championship game. Yes, they wanted nothing more than to play in the section championship in front of 5,000 fans at the Hibbing Memorial. They were in heaven if they ever got to skate in St. Paul in March.
I think we are spoiled as a society. Now, the section championship in most sections is not that big a deal. Ya, people get excited about getting the chance to go to state, but if they lose the section championship game, it is considered a failure and forgotten. This person told me exactly how many times his high school had played in this seciton championship EVER.
Now days evidently we not only have to get to state, we have to play agaisnt teams that are totally equall. Would this be any different if Warroad had won the championship??? No it wouldn't.
Bottom line is, this is the MSHSL tournement. The MSHSL is sponsoring it. This is how the MSHSL is deciding their champion.
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interestedbystander
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:25 am
Not a supporter of STA, but how is this different than open enrollment? In fact, in the latest issue of Lets Play Hockey, there is a very large ad for Mound Westonka...promoting those who are tired of large hockey associations to come play for them and their schools. What am I missing? Anyone can recruit.
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MrBoDangles
- Posts: 4090
- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:32 pm
Yes, the small iron range community works for decades for the goal of someday maybe making it to the tournament.defense wrote:I am NOT a fan of St. Thomas Academy, Breck, The Blake School, Benidle-St. Margerates, Hill-Murray, Rochester Lourdes, DuLuth Marshal, St. Cloud Cathedral, Cretin-Derham Hall, Totino-Grace or any other private school. In fact I am a fan of any public school team who is playing against any private school. Is this not worth something??? These arguments against the private schools is so idilistic. Just because they can legally recruit players...big deal.
Lately I was talking to a person who played hockey at a small Iron Range community back when there was only one class in hockey. You know what those kids looked forward to??? They looked forward to going to the section championship game, because once you got there, you were only one game away from the state tournement and anything can happen in the championship game. Yes, they wanted nothing more than to play in the section championship in front of 5,000 fans at the Hibbing Memorial. They were in heaven if they ever got to skate in St. Paul in March.
I think we are spoiled as a society. Now, the section championship in most sections is not that big a deal. Ya, people get excited about getting the chance to go to state, but if they lose the section championship game, it is considered a failure and forgotten. This person told me exactly how many times his high school had played in this seciton championship EVER.
Now days evidently we not only have to get to state, we have to play agaisnt teams that are totally equall. Would this be any different if Warroad had won the championship??? No it wouldn't.
Bottom line is, this is the MSHSL tournement. The MSHSL is sponsoring it. This is how the MSHSL is deciding their champion.
STA builds a rink, recruits some ringers away, and go from a two win season to the state tournament in two seasons..... This is as plastic as it gets.
STA will need to put an asterisk next to their class A tournament appearances for undeserving and sandbagging.
Very plastic. Unbelievably shallow. That's why I am not a fan of the low lifes. I doubt there was ANY bars full of St. Thomas Academy fans, whereas one could bet there was at least one in the DuLuth area cheering for the Hawks around noon, and probably more now.
St. Thomas does take players away.
My biggest issue is we have already dilluted the thing enough, why take away another level of competition so that an 8 loss Thief River team can get to the championship, or a sub .500 Alex team can get to the consolation, or in my own case a number of average or sandbagging Fergus Falls teams can get to the championship game??? You take the St. Thomas Academys and Brecks, and Totino-Graces out and you loose competition, integrity, credibility.
If we whent back to one class, which would be GREAT, everyone would be complaining that Eden Prarie's high school has more students than a lot of the communities in northern MN who have hockey.
St. Thomas does take players away.
My biggest issue is we have already dilluted the thing enough, why take away another level of competition so that an 8 loss Thief River team can get to the championship, or a sub .500 Alex team can get to the consolation, or in my own case a number of average or sandbagging Fergus Falls teams can get to the championship game??? You take the St. Thomas Academys and Brecks, and Totino-Graces out and you loose competition, integrity, credibility.
If we whent back to one class, which would be GREAT, everyone would be complaining that Eden Prarie's high school has more students than a lot of the communities in northern MN who have hockey.
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phil mccracken
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 2:40 pm
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puckster15
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:17 pm
Let me understand something. Hermantown was winning the entire game. 3-0 at one time. STA never had a lead for the entire game.
Hermantown had chances, hit the post in OT.
STA came back from 3-0, and 4-2 to win in OT. The STA top line had only one goal and was on the ice for three of Herantowns goals.
And yet everyone says they should move up to AA because they are blowing every A team away? Really? That championship game was a great game and Hermantown had a great chance to win.
I went to a public school and the hate seems to go back 25 years against the private schools. Enjoy the game of hockey. This was a really good hockey game.
Hermantown had chances, hit the post in OT.
STA came back from 3-0, and 4-2 to win in OT. The STA top line had only one goal and was on the ice for three of Herantowns goals.
And yet everyone says they should move up to AA because they are blowing every A team away? Really? That championship game was a great game and Hermantown had a great chance to win.
I went to a public school and the hate seems to go back 25 years against the private schools. Enjoy the game of hockey. This was a really good hockey game.
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warriors41
- Posts: 666
- Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:40 pm
Thank you!! It sucks to see a private win but it was a great game to watch. I feel bad for Hermantown losing for the 2nd year in a row to a private when they had plenty of chances to win, but at the same time, they had plenty of chances to win.puckster15 wrote:Let me understand something. Hermantown was winning the entire game. 3-0 at one time. STA never had a lead for the entire game.
Hermantown had chances, hit the post in OT.
STA came back from 3-0, and 4-2 to win in OT. The STA top line had only one goal and was on the ice for three of Herantowns goals.
And yet everyone says they should move up to AA because they are blowing every A team away? Really? That championship game was a great game and Hermantown had a great chance to win.
I went to a public school and the hate seems to go back 25 years against the private schools. Enjoy the game of hockey. This was a really good hockey game.
If we force Breck and STA to move up it destroys all the credibility A hockey has, which is already very little for some reason. Plus if all privates are forced up, then there isn't a bad guy that we can all get behind. Class A doesn't really have an Edina that is everyones enemy.
I also find it funny that the same people who complain about trying to give everyone a medal often times are the ones who want STA to go up. At least with STA playing in class A a team like Hermantown would have to beat a very good hockey team and earn that championship. Without them, they would have basically been handed it. I have absolutely no problem with successful private or any successful programs playing class A.
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Master Recruiter
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:23 pm
- Location: St Paul
forcing STA and Breck up destroys the credibility of A hockey? ARE YOU SERIOUS? LOLwarriors41 wrote:Thank you!! It sucks to see a private win but it was a great game to watch. I feel bad for Hermantown losing for the 2nd year in a row to a private when they had plenty of chances to win, but at the same time, they had plenty of chances to win.puckster15 wrote:Let me understand something. Hermantown was winning the entire game. 3-0 at one time. STA never had a lead for the entire game.
Hermantown had chances, hit the post in OT.
STA came back from 3-0, and 4-2 to win in OT. The STA top line had only one goal and was on the ice for three of Herantowns goals.
And yet everyone says they should move up to AA because they are blowing every A team away? Really? That championship game was a great game and Hermantown had a great chance to win.
I went to a public school and the hate seems to go back 25 years against the private schools. Enjoy the game of hockey. This was a really good hockey game.
If we force Breck and STA to move up it destroys all the credibility A hockey has, which is already very little for some reason. Plus if all privates are forced up, then there isn't a bad guy that we can all get behind. Class A doesn't really have an Edina that is everyones enemy.
I also find it funny that the same people who complain about trying to give everyone a medal often times are the ones who want STA to go up. At least with STA playing in class A a team like Hermantown would have to beat a very good hockey team and earn that championship. Without them, they would have basically been handed it. I have absolutely no problem with successful private or any successful programs playing class A.
having STA and Breck PLAYING CLASS A destroys the credibility of it.
The Class A tourney is for the small town teams to play together in the small town tournament. The teams like Hermantown, Warroad, Little Falls, and whoever else. Thats what Class A is all about.
Having Metro All Star teams that pick from an entire metropolis playing against "small time" schools is ridiculous and plain stupid
Last edited by Master Recruiter on Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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MrBoDangles
- Posts: 4090
- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:32 pm
Master Recruiter wrote:forcing STA and Breck up destroys are the credibility of A hockey? ARE YOU SERIOUS? LOLwarriors41 wrote:Thank you!! It sucks to see a private win but it was a great game to watch. I feel bad for Hermantown losing for the 2nd year in a row to a private when they had plenty of chances to win, but at the same time, they had plenty of chances to win.puckster15 wrote:Let me understand something. Hermantown was winning the entire game. 3-0 at one time. STA never had a lead for the entire game.
Hermantown had chances, hit the post in OT.
STA came back from 3-0, and 4-2 to win in OT. The STA top line had only one goal and was on the ice for three of Herantowns goals.
And yet everyone says they should move up to AA because they are blowing every A team away? Really? That championship game was a great game and Hermantown had a great chance to win.
I went to a public school and the hate seems to go back 25 years against the private schools. Enjoy the game of hockey. This was a really good hockey game.
If we force Breck and STA to move up it destroys all the credibility A hockey has, which is already very little for some reason. Plus if all privates are forced up, then there isn't a bad guy that we can all get behind. Class A doesn't really have an Edina that is everyones enemy.
I also find it funny that the same people who complain about trying to give everyone a medal often times are the ones who want STA to go up. At least with STA playing in class A a team like Hermantown would have to beat a very good hockey team and earn that championship. Without them, they would have basically been handed it. I have absolutely no problem with successful private or any successful programs playing class A.
having STA and Breck PLAYING CLASS A destroys the credibility of it.
The Class A tourney is for the small town teams to play together in the small town tournament. The teams like Hermantown, Warroad, Little Falls, and whoever else. Thats what Class A is all about.
Having Metro All Star teams that pick from an entire metropolis playing against "small time" schools is ridiculous and plain stupid
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Master Recruiter
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:23 pm
- Location: St Paul
whose fault is that? small time schools winning the small time championshipsachishi4 wrote:You take sta, breck, blake, lourdes out of it, you have hermantown and warroad winning every year.
exciting...
and for the record, Warroad wasnt here this year, and I think Hermantown has won 1 or 2 state titles. Thats it
judging by the last few years and what class a has been lately, it those two public schools and 2 private schools who have been doing all the winning. Then all everyone will complain about is how hermantown and warroad should opt up.Master Recruiter wrote:whose fault is that? small time schools winning the small time championshipsachishi4 wrote:You take sta, breck, blake, lourdes out of it, you have hermantown and warroad winning every year.
exciting...
and for the record, Warroad wasnt here this year, and I think Hermantown has won 1 or 2 state titles. Thats it
State ‘83, ‘91, ‘08, ‘20
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puckster15
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2008 2:17 pm
Master Recruiter. We hear your mantra, get over it, not going to happen.
I know you would be thrilled if Hermantown won, since you hate the private schools.
If you watched the game, a great game, you would have seen they had every chance to win it. Hermantown could have been celebrating as easily as STA. That is great hockey at the best event of the year.
I know you would be thrilled if Hermantown won, since you hate the private schools.
If you watched the game, a great game, you would have seen they had every chance to win it. Hermantown could have been celebrating as easily as STA. That is great hockey at the best event of the year.