transfer of students: does hockey see it like AV wrestling?

[lazy]

After reading the Star Tribune about hockey students opting out of high school, I was wondering if hockey sees students transferring to other high schools like wrestling does. Specifically upper class-men transferring which has created in my mind an all star team.

I posted on the wrestling web-site how the hockey forum does not have the same posts about transfer students that wrestling does, so I assumed that hockey does not have the same problem that wrestling does.

Am I wrong?

Is this forum strictly monitored and removes transfer stories or is students transferring not a problem since the new rules took effect?

[Master Recruiter]

After reading the Star Tribune about hockey students opting out of high school, I was wondering if hockey sees students transferring to other high schools like wrestling does. Specifically upper class-men transferring which has created in my mind an all star team.

I posted on the wrestling web-site how the hockey forum does not have the same posts about transfer students that wrestling does, so I assumed that hockey does not have the same problem that wrestling does.

Am I wrong?

Is this forum strictly monitored and removes transfer stories or is students transferring not a problem since the new rules took effect?

Hockey has this problem with private schools. Players opting to go to these schools causing multiple "all-star" teams as you put it. The transfer rule has cut down on the number of kids transferring I think, but it still happens.

The problem lies in the private schools and their either open or underground recruiting practices. It started back around 2000 with Benilde and has continued to this day.

[Master Recruiter]

and for the record, from what Ive seen here in my limited time - the recruiting/private/public debate goes on all the time.

[PuckU126]

and for the record, from what Ive seen here in my limited time - the recruiting/private/public debate goes on all the time.

Get use to it.

It will never end!

[Master Recruiter]

and for the record, from what Ive seen here in my limited time - the recruiting/private/public debate goes on all the time.

Get use to it.

It will never end!

With the transfer rule now in place, moving all privates up to AA would solve everything IMO. I do not mind the privates playing AA, it adds to the drama and thrill of things come tournament time.

[High Flyer]

After reading the Star Tribune about hockey students opting out of high school, I was wondering if hockey sees students transferring to other high schools like wrestling does. Specifically upper class-men transferring which has created in my mind an all star team.

I posted on the wrestling web-site how the hockey forum does not have the same posts about transfer students that wrestling does, so I assumed that hockey does not have the same problem that wrestling does.

Am I wrong?

Is this forum strictly monitored and removes transfer stories or is students transferring not a problem since the new rules took effect?

Lazy-

There are transfers in every sport, so it just not wrestling. The AV wrestling issue relates to their "total dominance” of every Minnesota High School team, which has been like this for years. Nobody has even come close to competing with them and transfers where/are the number #1 reason.

I think the moderators are a little thin skinned about those discussions on the G. forum.

Hockey does not have anything even close to the AV wrestling/transfer dominance discussion thread, though the closest would be the much discussed topic of public schools vs. private schools.

[MNHockeyFan]

Hockey has this problem with private schools.

The subject of this thread is student transfers. If hockey has a "problem" with private schools, how many high profile, private school hockey players can you name that transferred from a public to a private school after 9th grade?

(remember: a student who enrolls in a private - or a public school - STARTING in 9th grade is not a transfer)

[goldy313]

lazy....

No, this forum isn't anywhere near as strict as The Guillotine. For those unfamiliar; even when newspapers and the school board of Kasson Mantorville publically acknowledged a MSHSL recruiting violation this past spring that message board shut down any conversation or links to the story. People who would ask just what happened were admonished on that forum.

Here transfers are discussed and because new people come to the forum all the time they are, generally, tolerated as long as the posts are in good taste and aren't blind accusations, even then it's usually let go until the conversation degrades into name calling or gets way off subject. A situation like Apple Valley but not as severe happened with Holy Angels a few years ago, I think the debate was healthy with people on both sides weighing in.

I also have to say this, in hockey you have other choices, be it Junior leagues, Midgets, the US program, or Junior Gold. The junior leagues recruit, midgets recruit, the national team recruits , it's an open story here. If you're good enough you'll be found, we've had kids from New Ulm and Waseca make it by staying put because of the junior option after high school and before college. We do have transfers but not the quality that wrestling does and very infrequently does anyone transfer after 10th grade.

[crickett75]

lazy....

No, this forum isn't anywhere near as strict as The Guillotine. For those unfamiliar; even when newspapers and the school board of Kasson Mantorville publically acknowledged a MSHSL recruiting violation this past spring that message board shut down any conversation or links to the story. People who would ask just what happened were admonished on that forum.

Really Goldy? You're safe here? Don't you remember "The Randolph files"?

[goldy313]

Of course I do and that was hashed out pretty fairly. The Duluth news covered it and I think anyone who wanted to know the story got it, it sure was no secret at least. When it got into more than that it was stopped. Same last year when Tim Sagar was let go at White Bear Lake then rehired. You couldn't even post a link to the Rochester Post Bulletin or K-M school board in regards to that story. But it's their forum and they can do as they choose and the rules are laid out for anyone to see.

[AV PUCK 17]

AV does not recruit for wrestling

[The51]

After reading the Star Tribune about hockey students opting out of high school, I was wondering if hockey sees students transferring to other high schools like wrestling does. Specifically upper class-men transferring which has created in my mind an all star team.

I posted on the wrestling web-site how the hockey forum does not have the same posts about transfer students that wrestling does, so I assumed that hockey does not have the same problem that wrestling does.

Am I wrong?

Is this forum strictly monitored and removes transfer stories or is students transferring not a problem since the new rules took effect?

Hockey has this problem with private schools. Players opting to go to these schools causing multiple "all-star" teams as you put it. The transfer rule has cut down on the number of kids transferring I think, but it still happens.

The problem lies in the private schools and their either open or underground recruiting practices. It started back around 2000 with Benilde and has continued to this day.

The transfer rule has not cut down the number of kids leaving for private schools, it has just forced them to do it a different age. Now they all are recruited as eighth graders and are promised to play varsity as freshman, just look at the number of freshman on Benilde, Holy Angels, and Hill-Murray's teams the past 2 or 3 years

[HockeyMN1]

After reading the Star Tribune about hockey students opting out of high school, I was wondering if hockey sees students transferring to other high schools like wrestling does. Specifically upper class-men transferring which has created in my mind an all star team.

I posted on the wrestling web-site how the hockey forum does not have the same posts about transfer students that wrestling does, so I assumed that hockey does not have the same problem that wrestling does.

Am I wrong?

Is this forum strictly monitored and removes transfer stories or is students transferring not a problem since the new rules took effect?

Hockey has this problem with private schools. Players opting to go to these schools causing multiple "all-star" teams as you put it. The transfer rule has cut down on the number of kids transferring I think, but it still happens.

The problem lies in the private schools and their either open or underground recruiting practices. It started back around 2000 with Benilde and has continued to this day.

The transfer rule has not cut down the number of kids leaving for private schools, it has just forced them to do it a different age. Now they all are recruited as eighth graders and are promised to play varsity as freshman, just look at the number of freshman on Benilde, Holy Angels, and Hill-Murray's teams the past 2 or 3 years

Exactly. The top bantam teams are raided by BSM, AHA, and Hill. There was also a sophomore on this year's EP JV squad who got a one week "trial" at BSM but decided to come back to EP. It's easy for these guys to recruit because if they can get kids to come as freshmen there's no transfer rule and they can pull from everywhere.

[east hockey]

lazy....

No, this forum isn't anywhere near as strict as The Guillotine. For those unfamiliar; even when newspapers and the school board of Kasson Mantorville publically acknowledged a MSHSL recruiting violation this past spring that message board shut down any conversation or links to the story. People who would ask just what happened were admonished on that forum.

Here transfers are discussed and because new people come to the forum all the time they are, generally, tolerated as long as the posts are in good taste and aren't blind accusations, even then it's usually let go until the conversation degrades into name calling or gets way off subject. A situation like Apple Valley but not as severe happened with Holy Angels a few years ago, I think the debate was healthy with people on both sides weighing in.

I also have to say this, in hockey you have other choices, be it Junior leagues, Midgets, the US program, or Junior Gold. The junior leagues recruit, midgets recruit, the national team recruits , it's an open story here. If you're good enough you'll be found, we've had kids from New Ulm and Waseca make it by staying put because of the junior option after high school and before college. We do have transfers but not the quality that wrestling does and very infrequently does anyone transfer after 10th grade.

Now wait a minute. Some Forum is more than we....errr...I am?!

I'm slipping. Or Karl is. Karl, get to work!

Lee

[Zamman]

Why do you always try to bring this subject up. It is against MSHSL rules to recruit students for sports, period. Wrestling, football, baseball and hockey. All you know-it-alls are trying to stir the pot when in reality you know nothing.

If recruiting does happen, then somewhere there will be a parent that is shot down who would have the balls to go to the league and get the investigation going.

This has happened to a school in the last 20 years, they were stripped of their trophy and record of playing in the tournament. Sadly it was not a private school!!!


I hate defending this subject, private schools do recruit. That is how they get students. They go all over the twin cities to private grade school and try to lure kids to their schools. Parents make those decisions. Yes some do for sports reasons, but maybe not for what you think. Let's say your son is a good football player, but Mr. Grant will not pick him to play because he is not big enough, fast enough or with the "right" clique. So mom and dad decide to send him to the private school school, oh I forgot he also is a pretty good hockey player who developed as a better hockey player than football player and everyone says he is recruited for hockey.

SO there you go....

[PuckU126]

Why do you always try to bring this subject up. It is against MSHSL rules to recruit students for sports, period. Wrestling, football, baseball and hockey. All you know-it-alls are trying to stir the pot when in reality you know nothing.

If recruiting does happen, then somewhere there will be a parent that is shot down who would have the balls to go to the league and get the investigation going.

This has happened to a school in the last 20 years, they were stripped of their trophy and record of playing in the tournament. Sadly it was not a private school!!!


I hate defending this subject, private schools do recruit. That is how they get students. They go all over the twin cities to private grade school and try to lure kids to their schools. Parents make those decisions. Yes some do for sports reasons, but maybe not for what you think. Let's say your son is a good football player, but Mr. Grant will not pick him to play because he is not big enough, fast enough or with the "right" clique. So mom and dad decide to send him to the private school school, oh I forgot he also is a pretty good hockey player who developed as a better hockey player than football player and everyone says he is recruited for hockey.

SO there you go....

Perfectly said, Zamman.

People don't stop to think that private schools don't force these players to attend their school and play for them. The parents of the player have the final decision.

People like to be winners rather than losers; that's a fact. If the players and families feel they should take the best opportunity not only to excel in their studies as well as their athletics; they are going to take that opportunity. (this applies to both public and private organizations)

Private schools like AHA, HM don't recruit; their program recruits itself. This also applies to EAST, Hermantown, Moorhead, Edina, etc. But I can see why people besmirch these teams, throwing the R word out; they resent their success.

[wblhcky24]

Everyone knows all the best players from Duluth go to east

[HShockeywatcher]

AV does not recruit for wrestling

Do they? Or do they simply have a good enough program that students decide to go to?
If you are a family with a good wrestler, why not move to AV? Is that "recruiting"? No.

The MSHSL website has them losing one match, but minnesota-scores does not, who beat them?

If recruiting does happen, then somewhere there will be a parent that is shot down who would have the balls to go to the league and get the investigation going.

I will defend along side you with the next guy, but the question that never gets answered on here is "where is the line drawn with what is 'recruiting' and what isn't?"

If Mr. Vanelli or Mr. Trebil sees an 8th grader skating at a function, or talks to an 8th grader on a visit to the school and the kid asks, "what are my strengths and weaknesses and what would it take to make your team next year?" is it recruiting to answer?

I know of many situations outside of MN for other sports where parents of players at public schools recruit parents of good players outside the district into their school to make them want to come there. From simply being their friends, to renting them property, even as far as letting them live with them or give them property or trying to open enroll for "academic reasons". I am not asking defensively at all, but it would be nice to get an unbiased answer of what actual recruiting is, when the school is responsible and when they are not.

[wblhcky24]

AV does not recruit for wrestling

Do they? Or do they simply have a good enough program that students decide to go to?
If you are a family with a good wrestler, why not move to AV? Is that "recruiting"? No.

The MSHSL website has them losing one match, but minnesota-scores does not, who beat them?

If recruiting does happen, then somewhere there will be a parent that is shot down who would have the balls to go to the league and get the investigation going.

A team from wisconsin beat them none of their top wrestlers wrestled
Though
I will defend along side you with the next guy, but the question that never gets answered on here is "where is the line drawn with what is 'recruiting' and what isn't?"

If Mr. Vanelli or Mr. Trebil sees an 8th grader skating at a function, or talks to an 8th grader on a visit to the school and the kid asks, "what are my strengths and weaknesses and what would it take to make your team next year?" is it recruiting to answer?

I know of many situations outside of MN for other sports where parents of players at public schools recruit parents of good players outside the district into their school to make them want to come there. From simply being their friends, to renting them property, even as far as letting them live with them or give them property or trying to open enroll for "academic reasons". I am not asking defensively at all, but it would be nice to get an unbiased answer of what actual recruiting is, when the school is responsible and when they are not.

[lazy]

Thanks for all the replies.

[lazy]

Hockey has this problem with private schools.

The subject of this thread is student transfers. If hockey has a "problem" with private schools, how many high profile, private school hockey players can you name that transferred from a public to a private school after 9th grade?

(remember: a student who enrolls in a private - or a public school - STARTING in 9th grade is not a transfer)

I thought if they competed on varsity in 7th or 8th they would be considered a transfer.

This is the Apple Valley Line up and where some of the wrestlers came from, What do the high school state hockey champion rosters look like?
103 Seth Gross
112 Jordan Kingsley
119 Cory Rathman
125 Dakota Trom
130 Mark Hall - Finalist in Michigan state tournament as a 7th grader - MN state champion as a 7th grader, will be able to compete 7 years as a high school student
135 Matt Kelliher - MN then IL then MN
140 Brandon Kingsley
145 Daniel Woiwor - 7th & 8th grade state tournament with Becker MN
152 Destin McCauley - 2004 for McCook Lake, SD he was national champion at top tournments, - Cliff Keen, Tulsa, Reno he joined AV 2005
160 Steven Keogh - 7th - 10th grade went to state for Thief River Falls, finalist in 10th grade, All American before wrestling for AV
171 Jacob Waste - 8th - 10th went to state for Anoka, was national champion before wrestling for AV
189 Corbin Farrell - wrestled for Wayzata in 9th grade
215 Matt Hechsel Apple Valley
285 Zach Martens Apple Valley

[lazy]

Why do you always try to bring this subject up. It is against MSHSL rules to recruit students for sports, period. Wrestling, football, baseball and hockey. All you know-it-alls are trying to stir the pot when in reality you know nothing.

If recruiting does happen, then somewhere there will be a parent that is shot down who would have the balls to go to the league and get the investigation going.

SO there you go....

The reason few people will call the MSHSL is that there are mat officials who are part of the MSHSL. Wrestling includes calls that are subjective. Mat official assignments are subjective. It is not wise for a wrestler or a team to have their name associated with a call to the MSHSL.

Wrestling officials are bred through summer teams and high schools, so officials are very connected to the participants and schools. How about hockey?