Bantam B1 State

Guru20 · Post by **Guru20** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:26 pm

Anyone which teams are winning in Marshall, or have a link to the tournament? I haven't been able to find any results.

NIFALTY · Post by **NIFALTY** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 5:59 pm

Friday Edina White over Elk River,Woodbury Black over Eveleth
Osseo/MG over Chisago Lakes, Woodbury Royal over L.O.W.
Saturday Elk River over Eveleth in Consolation No further info.

Big Daddy · Post by **Big Daddy** » Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:49 pm

NIFALTY wrote:Friday Edina White over Elk River,Woodbury Black over Eveleth
Osseo/MG over Chisago Lakes, Woodbury Royal over L.O.W.
Saturday Elk River over Eveleth in Consolation No further info.

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/page/sho ... ents-boys-

LowLight21 · Post by **LowLight21** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 9:36 am

OMG Crimson - 3
Edina White - 0

Anyone watch this game? I was really impressed with the Edina squad, so I was surprised to see them shutout.

Bluewhitefan · Post by **Bluewhitefan** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:45 am

OMG came to play - bigger, more physical. Appeared to be mostly second year kids, while Edina was probably 1/2 1st years. Edina had chances - lot's of penalties, most well deserved from what I could tell. OMG uses B1-A approach, I don't think Edina does, for what it's worth. Edina had trouble scoring goals all weekend - outshot ER in opener 46-14 and didn't pull away until late in the third.

Very well-run tourney by the Marshall folks and some very good hockey.

ahastars03 · Post by **ahastars03** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:38 pm

Congrats to OMG!! Very good team. Tourney was run very well.

Championship game had a ton of pen. which hurt the flow of the game but Edina still couldn't put one in the net.

oldschoolpuckster · Post by **oldschoolpuckster** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 2:17 pm

I guess I have a little issue with associations creating "upper" B1 teams.
It seems a little hollow to have an upper team when most associations that have multiple B1 or B2 teams try to create balanced teams. I know OMG Crimson is made up of players 16-30 for the Bantam level. Not that I am a big Edina fan...but at least they seem to draft their teams to be even. I know at one time MN Hockey had some form of policy about this issue, not sure if that went away or is just not enforced any longer.

urban iceman · Post by **urban iceman** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:32 pm

Especially with 2 communities the size of Osseo and Maple Grove in one assoc.

whockeyguy · Post by **whockeyguy** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:56 pm

OMG got what they wanted ----a trophy, why in goods green earth does Mn Hockey allow these two good size communities to coop, this is nothing less than a Mn Hockey created AAA team, and if not stopped it will spread to others and some have already, yet the little town outside the metro area that only get 20 kids to try out at one level, keep putting up with this crap..

the_juiceman · Post by **the_juiceman** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:57 pm

With a State Tourney birth at stake, I think you'll find most Assc. with more than 1 B1 team will have an upper & lower team. At least that's what I've seen in my experiences. If you look at the standings in the different districts, you'll usually see one of the b1's towards the top, and the other middle or lower. Look at Dist. 10 Bantams--Elk River, Blaine & Centennial all had 2 B1 teams---Blaine and Centennial each had a team at the top and a team at the bottom. obviously not equal teams. Elk River's 2nd team was 8-5, other team was 13-1

HockeyGuy81 · Post by **HockeyGuy81** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:14 pm

whockeyguy wrote:OMG got what they wanted ----a trophy, why in goods green earth does Mn Hockey allow these two good size communities to coop, this is nothing less than a Mn Hockey created AAA team, and if not stopped it will spread to others and some have already, yet the little town outside the metro area that only get 20 kids to try out at one level, keep putting up with this crap..

They probably put up with it because if you look at their history, OMG rarely wins anything.

Night Train · Post by **Night Train** » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:37 pm

Osseo, has very small, I believe declining, numbers. The high school has had some decent seasons because the kids come from other youth associations to attend Osseo High School.

LowLight21 · Post by **LowLight21** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:08 am

Many larger associations do this.

Wayzata, Woodbury, Osseo/Maple Grove all have 3 B1 teams with one a "top" B1 team.

Centennial and Elk River each had two B1 teams with one a "top" team.

In my opinion, if you have the numbers to fill three B1 teams, having a "top" team is a good way to enhance development for all B1 players. I don't think it's just to win championships. Edina could very easily add a third B1 team and remain competitive across all three teams, but they only feed one high school, so there's less driver to push more kids to higher levels. The communities that recently split high schools have a greater need to push kids to higher levels sooner, like in Woodbury, Lakeville, etc.

C-dad · Post by **C-dad** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:31 am

LowLight21 wrote:Edina could very easily add a third B1 team and remain competitive across all three teams, but they only feed one high school, so there's less driver to push more kids to higher levels.

You want to look at the AHA, Blake, BSM and Breck rosters some time and see what associations the kids came from?

Edit: Throw STA in there too.

LowLight21 · Post by **LowLight21** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:48 am

I should have specified public schools in my statement. But yes, every association loses kids to private schools.

Bluewhitefan · Post by **Bluewhitefan** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:25 am

the_juiceman wrote:With a State Tourney birth at stake, I think you'll find most Assc. with more than 1 B1 team will have an upper & lower team. At least that's what I've seen in my experiences. If you look at the standings in the different districts, you'll usually see one of the b1's towards the top, and the other middle or lower. Look at Dist. 10 Bantams--Elk River, Blaine & Centennial all had 2 B1 teams---Blaine and Centennial each had a team at the top and a team at the bottom. obviously not equal teams. Elk River's 2nd team was 8-5, other team was 13-1

Balanced teams required by D6 to my knowledge - others can do what they want. For what it's worth, I think Edina White beat this team twice and tied once, so they were very evenly matched.

InigoMontoya · Post by **InigoMontoya** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:49 am

I'm not sure why everyone is complaining about OMG's Bantam B's. Orange finished with a rank of 12 and black at 14 in the final LPH. Other than Edina's #1 and #3 finish, no other team had multiple bantam B teams so close in the rankings.
Wayzata Blue #4, no other Wayzata in top 20
Elk River Black, Woodbury Black, Centenial Red, Stillwater Red all in the same boat.
Did Eden Prairie only have one B1 team???
Agree, though, that the two associations shouldn't be together. So they struggle to compete with Wayzata, so what, so does most everyone else. I don't think the answer is to have Hopkins/Orono/Mound-Westonka, any more than I think we should have Chanhassen/Chaska/Prior Lake/Savage to be better able to compete with Edina and Eden Prairie.

Bluewhitefan · Post by **Bluewhitefan** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:01 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:I'm not sure why everyone is complaining about OMG's Bantam B's. Orange finished with a rank of 12 and black at 14 in the final LPH. Other than Edina's #1 and #3 finish, no other team had multiple bantam B teams so close in the rankings.
Wayzata Blue #4, no other Wayzata in top 20
Elk River Black, Woodbury Black, Centenial Red, Stillwater Red all in the same boat.
Did Eden Prairie only have one B1 team???
Agree, though, that the two associations shouldn't be together. So they struggle to compete with Wayzata, so what, so does most everyone else. I don't think the answer is to have Hopkins/Orono/Mound-Westonka, any more than I think we should have Chanhassen/Chaska/Prior Lake/Savage to be better able to compete with Edina and Eden Prairie.

I think your post validates the consensus - all the more reason to balance the teams. The question is about the need to tier them - which, in the case of OMG - appears to be unnecessary.

LowLight21 · Post by **LowLight21** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:56 pm

InigoMontoya wrote: Did Eden Prairie only have one B1 team???

This amazes me as well. They had six Bantam teams, so they had the numbers, but like my previous point, they are only feeding one public school, so I think the board feels less inclined to push more kids to higher levels.

Bluewhitefan · Post by **Bluewhitefan** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:14 pm

LowLight21 wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote: Did Eden Prairie only have one B1 team???
This amazes me as well. They had six Bantam teams, so they had the numbers, but like my previous point, they are only feeding one public school, so I think the board feels less inclined to push more kids to higher levels.

Maybe true, but any board that is making decisions about team counts based on the needs of the public high school is doing a grave dis-service to 95% of it's membership - and likely in violation of it's chater as well.

the_juiceman · Post by **the_juiceman** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:42 pm

Night Train wrote:Osseo, has very small, I believe declining, numbers. The high school has had some decent seasons because the kids come from other youth associations to attend Osseo High School.

Osseo should move to the North Metro co-op for both youth & HS. I believe many of their HS players come from that youth assc. From what I was told, the"A" Bantam team for OMG only had 3 Osseo players on it.

the_juiceman · Post by **the_juiceman** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:48 pm

LowLight21 wrote:Many larger associations do this.

Wayzata, Woodbury, Osseo/Maple Grove all have 3 B1 teams with one a "top" B1 team.

Centennial and Elk River each had two B1 teams with one a "top" team.

In my opinion, if you have the numbers to fill three B1 teams, having a "top" team is a good way to enhance development for all B1 players. I don't think it's just to win championships. Edina could very easily add a third B1 team and remain competitive across all three teams, but they only feed one high school, so there's less driver to push more kids to higher levels. The communities that recently split high schools have a greater need to push kids to higher levels sooner, like in Woodbury, Lakeville, etc.

OK, but if that Top B1 team is winning 85% of their games by 5-6 goals, how much are they really being tested? What part of their development is really being enhanced? Wouldn't the development be more enhanced by being an "A2" team and being tested by the average "A" team?

C-dad · Post by **C-dad** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:23 pm

LowLight21 wrote:I should have specified public schools in my statement. But yes, every association loses kids to private schools.

I would bet Edina loses more than most do.

Little King · Post by **Little King** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:27 am

[quote="the_juicemanOK, but if that Top B1 team is winning 85% of their games by 5-6 goals, how much are they really being tested? What part of their development is really being enhanced? Wouldn't the development be more enhanced by being an "A2" team and being tested by the average "A" team?[/quote]

Great point!!! I agree 100%, the only problem is most associations, and their "A" level coaches wouldn't want the headache of having the 2 A teams compete. Especially if they were unbalanced. You also have to remember that it is every associations goal to get to and win a state championship. As much as we all say we would rather focus on development of more kids, it's easy to say that if you don't have a kid on the team. If you do have a kid on an A team with a shot at winning a state title, you would be 100% against 2 equal A teams.

Lastly, I will say with 100% certainty that most of the teams mentioned in this post could have been middle of the road A bantam teams, with all due respect.

the_juiceman · Post by **the_juiceman** » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:24 pm

Little King wrote:[quote="the_juicemanOK, but if that Top B1 team is winning 85% of their games by 5-6 goals, how much are they really being tested? What part of their development is really being enhanced? Wouldn't the development be more enhanced by being an "A2" team and being tested by the average "A" team?

Great point!!! I agree 100%, the only problem is most associations, and their "A" level coaches wouldn't want the headache of having the 2 A teams compete. Especially if they were unbalanced. You also have to remember that it is every associations goal to get to and win a state championship. As much as we all say we would rather focus on development of more kids, it's easy to say that if you don't have a kid on the team. If you do have a kid on an A team with a shot at winning a state title, you would be 100% against 2 equal A teams.

Lastly, I will say with 100% certainty that most of the teams mentioned in this post could have been middle of the road A bantam teams, with all due respect.[/quote]

very well stated.