I've been meaning to post this thought for a while and I am now just getting around to it. I would like to pose a question to this diverse, well educated group. Sorry for the long post…but I hope you find it interesting.
During my last 12 or so years as a youth hockey dad and coach wandering through the rinks of the Midwest and Canada, and as I browse through the various posts on this board I often see and hear several people reference the holy grail of hockey terms - development. It’s a term I very RARELY hear in the circles of other sports. I have found that people hold this term in extremely high reverence in youth hockey. Yet it rarely means the same thing to everyone. I have found this term to take precedence over just about any other term or objective in youth hockey. If you talk with any coach or AAA hockey parent, it's development that is paramount. Without it, it's almost as if the hockey world will crumble around us. So here is the question that I always ask myself when I hear the word development uttered:
Development for what?
Now stay with me for a second. For the most part, a hockey player's competitive career is rather short when thinking about one's life in its entirety. Maybe 10-15 years out of an avg. 75 year life span. I know there are studies out there although I don't recall where that estimate how many kids are out of hockey by the age of 15 or 16 or 17, etc... and it's rather high, over 50% I believe. And I have also read a stat somewhere along the way that the percentage of kids that go on to play competitive hockey after high school is in the single digits and of course the number of players that go on to get paid to play professionally (NHL, Europe, etc...) is in the 1% range, give or take smidge. So I go back to my original question…if the majority of kids (over 50%) are out of hockey by the time they reach high school...
Developed for what?
I apply this to one of my own children. He is in high school now and no longer playing hockey. From his 1st year of squirts to his last of year of bantams, he was a B1 player, never lower and never higher. Yet for 10 years (starting in mites) I heard a relentless battle cry for more development. He needs to concentrate on his development. That should be my focus as a parent and his focus as a player. Get him developed. So we put him in this camp and that camp and this skating school and that skating school when, really, all the time, I knew in the back of my mind, he is who he is and there is no camp, no skating school and no AAA program that would serve as the silver bullet that would turn him into something he is not…a world class hockey player. So as I look back at all the years, dollars and windshield time I spent getting him developed, I am still asking myself:
Developed for what?
He signed up to play hockey...not practice it. Don't get me wrong, I understand practice is important, but the hours and dollars spent on the special camps to work on cross-overs, edge-work, stick handling…and my all time favorite hockey term – over speed training, was for what? So he could be the best B1 player on the ice? Not much of a payoff really if you think about it. I guess all I am getting at is now, when I sit down with my son and we revisit his albeit brief hockey career, I ask him about the memories he has of hockey. Not surprisingly he often mentions an overtime goal he scored for a big win or the separated shoulder he received in a B1 Bantam region playoff game or the crushing OT defeat his team took at the hands of the hated Edina Hornets in a big squirt B tournament 7 years ago. He talks about the friends he made along the way, the coaches he liked and didn’t like and even talks about the far away places we travelled to for games. However, he never mentions a single practice or a single drill. After all he signed up to play hockey…not to be developed into something he can’t be.
He’s turned into a solid young man who will be going for his license here in a few weeks. By the way…a license we need him to get so he can help drive his 9-year-old younger brother to summer hockey practice. After all, his younger brother is smack dab in the middle of being developed. But what I can’t figure out is…
Developed for what? The statistics tell me his 9 year old brother will be out of hockey in 6-8 years…
Developed for what?
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
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JoltDelivered
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Developed for what?
"I find tinsel distracting"
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interestedbystander
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Well said. A healthy dose of reality is never a bad thing. It's too bad that many will think to themselves "this doesn't apply to MY kid." I can't tell you how many times we went round and round on this last season --- but you can't get it through that the kids want to play games (and the answer is always....that's not how you "develop kids") --- games are what they remember and it's the fun part of hockey -- after all, this is supposed to be fun....isn't it?-
DumpandChase1
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frederick61
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I am a grandparent of hockey players and I have a son who played hockey.
The town where I grew up was so small that the only other kid in the town was my brother and he was two years older than me. Not great for competitive sports, but it was great for fishing and hunting.
When my dad came home from work in the summer, we went fishing. At first he gave us cane poles and we trolled “bass-o-renos” from the back of the boat. Surprisingly, we caught largemouth bass often enough to keep my brother and I interested in fishing.
In the fall we hunted with my dad, small game and eventually deer. We had a great time with my dad and I remember him well and what he taught me. I went on to get a college degree and a job in the cities. When my son was six, I wanted to do similar things that my dad did, but I knew I couldn’t.
I didn’t get off work at 3:00 pm and I couldn’t be in a boat with my son in an hour or in the middle of the woods by 4:00 pm. But my son came home and asked if he could play hockey. He did and I drove him to practices and watched him play games through high school.
He didn’t play after high school, but that is not the point. Today he is a responsible man with a family and I hope he will think of me as a father as I think of my dad. I hope his kids will be equally responsible and think well of their father as he now drives them to their hockey practices and watches them play, sharing their disappointments and their joys.
A parent needs to do something with their kids where the kids have a chance to show off for the parents. Think of how excited kids get putting on a show at school or playing flute in the band. Chances are they will never perform on Broadway or play in the Minnesota Orchestra, but they are developing and you as parent in the audience is very important to them.
Jolt, you asked development for what? Your kid may never play hockey much beyond bantams or high school. But think of the relationship you have developed with your kid and things that the two of you have been through together. I hope it is as good as the one I had with my father and the one I think I have with my son.
The town where I grew up was so small that the only other kid in the town was my brother and he was two years older than me. Not great for competitive sports, but it was great for fishing and hunting.
When my dad came home from work in the summer, we went fishing. At first he gave us cane poles and we trolled “bass-o-renos” from the back of the boat. Surprisingly, we caught largemouth bass often enough to keep my brother and I interested in fishing.
In the fall we hunted with my dad, small game and eventually deer. We had a great time with my dad and I remember him well and what he taught me. I went on to get a college degree and a job in the cities. When my son was six, I wanted to do similar things that my dad did, but I knew I couldn’t.
I didn’t get off work at 3:00 pm and I couldn’t be in a boat with my son in an hour or in the middle of the woods by 4:00 pm. But my son came home and asked if he could play hockey. He did and I drove him to practices and watched him play games through high school.
He didn’t play after high school, but that is not the point. Today he is a responsible man with a family and I hope he will think of me as a father as I think of my dad. I hope his kids will be equally responsible and think well of their father as he now drives them to their hockey practices and watches them play, sharing their disappointments and their joys.
A parent needs to do something with their kids where the kids have a chance to show off for the parents. Think of how excited kids get putting on a show at school or playing flute in the band. Chances are they will never perform on Broadway or play in the Minnesota Orchestra, but they are developing and you as parent in the audience is very important to them.
Jolt, you asked development for what? Your kid may never play hockey much beyond bantams or high school. But think of the relationship you have developed with your kid and things that the two of you have been through together. I hope it is as good as the one I had with my father and the one I think I have with my son.
I was thinking along the same line as Fred. Sure you're kid might never
develop past a B1 player, but I'm sure growing up playing the team game of hockey, your son or daughter learned a lot of great life and character building lessons. I'm sure your son is a better person today, not only because he played hockey, but because you were there with him every step of the way. These are the things your son will remember all his life and pass on to his kids. The picture is bigger than hockey.
develop past a B1 player, but I'm sure growing up playing the team game of hockey, your son or daughter learned a lot of great life and character building lessons. I'm sure your son is a better person today, not only because he played hockey, but because you were there with him every step of the way. These are the things your son will remember all his life and pass on to his kids. The picture is bigger than hockey.
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O-townClown
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Jolt, development is a meaningless word. Credit to you for pointing that out. It gets thrown around all the time in soccer circles as well. Proof that it has no meaning? It doesn't have an antonym in the youth sports context. "He left for the Wisconsin Fire, but now the parents are saying it led to stagnation."
We don't hear people talk like that, do we?
The other phrase equally meaningless is a "good coach". Where you have hockey in a club (non-community) structure, families are free to choose. In evaluating a program, they're always told to look for "a good coach".
What the heck is that? As opposed to the program that offers a not-very-good or even a bad coach?
I know you said he signed up to play hockey. Hopefully he learned you need to practice to be good at things and hopefully he also learned that sometimes your best is not the best, and that's okay.
Whatever he learned will help later in life. It was all worth it.
We don't hear people talk like that, do we?
The other phrase equally meaningless is a "good coach". Where you have hockey in a club (non-community) structure, families are free to choose. In evaluating a program, they're always told to look for "a good coach".
What the heck is that? As opposed to the program that offers a not-very-good or even a bad coach?
I know you said he signed up to play hockey. Hopefully he learned you need to practice to be good at things and hopefully he also learned that sometimes your best is not the best, and that's okay.
Whatever he learned will help later in life. It was all worth it.
Be kind. Rewind.
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youngblood08
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HockeyDad41
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When I hear them talk about development, I think they simply mean the athlete will be training and competing in such a way as to maintain or increase their level of play as related to their peers. I don't think there is an endgame in mind other than getting better for that next tournament or tryout coming up.
Solving all of hockey's problems since Feb 2009.
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2legit2quitguy
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hunting247
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Its about what the kids want right? I have never heard my kids say they didn't want to go to hockey or they don't want to go to a camp, because I give them the choice. I would be happy not to spend thousands of dollars a year and we could go camping or fishing instead. but we give our kids the choice of what they want to do and they choose hockey. I am proud of them and will support their decisions. Someday when and if they say they do not want to play hockey any more I will respect the decision they make. For now I will enjoy the time we spend together and I am sure in the future they will look back and have fond memories of their time in youth hockey
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Deep Breath
Hunting-
I agree with you. I've never understood why it bothers people so much if another family "goes overboard" with youth hockey. Not sure why it matters if player "A" and his/her family want to go the Patrick Kane route and be on the ice 360 days per year. Not sure why it bothers people so much if a family wants to wear a jacket/hat or whatever of the team their son/daughter plays on. Just because it may not be a good fit for some/many families, does not mean it is wrong. If a kid wants to play as much hockey as he/she can and the family has the means to do it, great. Knock yourself out. I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it one way or another simply because it is hard enough to raise kids, manage a career, work on a marriage and deal with youth athletics, rather than worry about what another family has decided is or isn't best for them. I have both a son and daughter that play yea-round hockey. That may sound like "going overboard" but both play baseball; they both swim; we get to the lake during the summer and they have lives outside of the rink. For now, it is what's best for our family simply because our kids both love to do it and we can deal with it financially. That may change down the road, but for now, it works for us. If others have an issue with that, that is not our problem, it is theirs.
I agree with you. I've never understood why it bothers people so much if another family "goes overboard" with youth hockey. Not sure why it matters if player "A" and his/her family want to go the Patrick Kane route and be on the ice 360 days per year. Not sure why it bothers people so much if a family wants to wear a jacket/hat or whatever of the team their son/daughter plays on. Just because it may not be a good fit for some/many families, does not mean it is wrong. If a kid wants to play as much hockey as he/she can and the family has the means to do it, great. Knock yourself out. I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it one way or another simply because it is hard enough to raise kids, manage a career, work on a marriage and deal with youth athletics, rather than worry about what another family has decided is or isn't best for them. I have both a son and daughter that play yea-round hockey. That may sound like "going overboard" but both play baseball; they both swim; we get to the lake during the summer and they have lives outside of the rink. For now, it is what's best for our family simply because our kids both love to do it and we can deal with it financially. That may change down the road, but for now, it works for us. If others have an issue with that, that is not our problem, it is theirs.
Jolt, great post, it truly is.
My question right back would be though. "Does that mean no one should ever try and work toward their dream?" "And in order to work toward a dream doesn't their have to be some sort of practice involved?"
I have no idea what the future holds for my kids. Hopefully health and happiness above all but beyond that who knows. What I know right now is that playing and even practicing hockey seem to make 2 of my 3 kids happy so in turn I am happy to try and give them every opportunity to pursue that. Along with making sure they do well in school, play other sports, try music or art and sustain a good work ethic in everything they do.
I get what you are saying and it is somewhat funny, comical and true in the big picture, but that said do you think a guy like Sidney Crosby would be where he is now without the opportunities to "develop" (whatever that means) that he had along the way. I'm just saying there is a fine line between being realistic and being a dream crusher, I'm not even saying I know where the line is, I don't but I'm pretty sure there is one if that makes sense.
My question right back would be though. "Does that mean no one should ever try and work toward their dream?" "And in order to work toward a dream doesn't their have to be some sort of practice involved?"
I have no idea what the future holds for my kids. Hopefully health and happiness above all but beyond that who knows. What I know right now is that playing and even practicing hockey seem to make 2 of my 3 kids happy so in turn I am happy to try and give them every opportunity to pursue that. Along with making sure they do well in school, play other sports, try music or art and sustain a good work ethic in everything they do.
I get what you are saying and it is somewhat funny, comical and true in the big picture, but that said do you think a guy like Sidney Crosby would be where he is now without the opportunities to "develop" (whatever that means) that he had along the way. I'm just saying there is a fine line between being realistic and being a dream crusher, I'm not even saying I know where the line is, I don't but I'm pretty sure there is one if that makes sense.
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old goalie85
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CrashDaNET
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Good post by all....I agree with Deep Breath. To each their own...Not my business. The only thing I ask if my child is going to "Develop" Is that " I want to be part of those "Developement" memories. Riding in the car and having long conversations, going to Subway after the practices and watching him/her smile and laughing on /off the ice.
So develpment can mean ALL sorts of things to me....But what I can NEVER figure out is... "Why would anyone want their child to "Develop" aka...leave home to play hockey before they are out of High School?"
We all want what is best for all our kids. But I am always confused as to why a "Parent" would want to have their "Child" raised by someone else. "TIME IS PRECIOUS" and that "TIME" will be gone too fast.
All of us are NEVER getting that "Time" back.
Sure, I would love to see my kid play D-1 college hockey...but not at the cost of not seeing his high Scool years.
I would never gamble not seeing his High School years for that 1% or less percent of playing pro...(not sure on the %) BUT ITS TOO RISKY FOR ME. " (again, that is just me)
I guess that is why Vegas exist.
In my business, I would NEVER take a risk with those odds... and I sure Love my kids more. My wifes parents have moved back to MN from San Diego after being gone for 3 years just to see their grandkids grow-up. "Some say they are nuts"..But they just realized that memories are only memories and can not substitute for the real deal.
Okay...Blast away with your "You need to let your child grow up on his own"
PS: (I try to let my child make his own decision for the most part, just not all of them)
So Development / Develop can mean many things to many people
So develpment can mean ALL sorts of things to me....But what I can NEVER figure out is... "Why would anyone want their child to "Develop" aka...leave home to play hockey before they are out of High School?"
We all want what is best for all our kids. But I am always confused as to why a "Parent" would want to have their "Child" raised by someone else. "TIME IS PRECIOUS" and that "TIME" will be gone too fast.
All of us are NEVER getting that "Time" back.
Sure, I would love to see my kid play D-1 college hockey...but not at the cost of not seeing his high Scool years.
I would never gamble not seeing his High School years for that 1% or less percent of playing pro...(not sure on the %) BUT ITS TOO RISKY FOR ME. " (again, that is just me)
I guess that is why Vegas exist.
In my business, I would NEVER take a risk with those odds... and I sure Love my kids more. My wifes parents have moved back to MN from San Diego after being gone for 3 years just to see their grandkids grow-up. "Some say they are nuts"..But they just realized that memories are only memories and can not substitute for the real deal.
Okay...Blast away with your "You need to let your child grow up on his own"
PS: (I try to let my child make his own decision for the most part, just not all of them)
So Development / Develop can mean many things to many people
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royals dad
- Posts: 432
- Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 8:41 pm
Jolt,
Good post - seems like you must have hit a nail with your thoughts as people are getting defensive. Personally we have a very busy sports schedule with three kids in 2 or 3 sports each. Sure seems like we have to catch ourselves from going overboard a lot as there is always an invite to join a friend or teammate on a new team, camp, clinic,... We are probably going to look back and have some regrets on all the time spent. Lets face it when you have 30 min to turnaround from work to the arena then you all eat at different times your families quality of life is somewhat diminished. When you burn vacation in Fargo or Duluth and see little more than the hotel ("no swimming, you have a game") and arena you do miss out on some good alternatives. At the same time we have a bit of that field of dreams shared experience across generations thing going on and I have had the good fortune of coaching each of my kids. Some good friends and life lessons... I guess it balances out somewhat, you just have to be careful not to let it get tipped to far overboard, which is the reminder I took from your post.
Good post - seems like you must have hit a nail with your thoughts as people are getting defensive. Personally we have a very busy sports schedule with three kids in 2 or 3 sports each. Sure seems like we have to catch ourselves from going overboard a lot as there is always an invite to join a friend or teammate on a new team, camp, clinic,... We are probably going to look back and have some regrets on all the time spent. Lets face it when you have 30 min to turnaround from work to the arena then you all eat at different times your families quality of life is somewhat diminished. When you burn vacation in Fargo or Duluth and see little more than the hotel ("no swimming, you have a game") and arena you do miss out on some good alternatives. At the same time we have a bit of that field of dreams shared experience across generations thing going on and I have had the good fortune of coaching each of my kids. Some good friends and life lessons... I guess it balances out somewhat, you just have to be careful not to let it get tipped to far overboard, which is the reminder I took from your post.
Certainly can see your point and it's a valid one but IMO, part of it comes down to the opportunity cost. That ~1% or less of playing pro you speak of goes for the entire population. If your child has the opportunity to go to a SSM/NTDP/USHL/etc that percentage is quite a bit higher. I don't have personal experience to speak from but I find it difficult to judge others on the decisions they make when it comes to this. You can still have a great relationship with your kid and create some really great memories. It's not as if your relationship with them has to end once they move out of the house. Unfortunately in some cases that could actually help the relationship!CrashDaNET wrote:So develpment can mean ALL sorts of things to me....But what I can NEVER figure out is... "Why would anyone want their child to "Develop" aka...leave home to play hockey before they are out of High School?"
We all want what is best for all our kids. But I am always confused as to why a "Parent" would want to have their "Child" raised by someone else. "TIME IS PRECIOUS" and that "TIME" will be gone too fast.
All of us are NEVER getting that "Time" back.
Sure, I would love to see my kid play D-1 college hockey...but not at the cost of not seeing his high Scool years.
To play devils advocate though, one could argue that not allowing your child to take advantage of that opportunity is selfish and you might be selling your kid short of something that could lead him/her to a lifelong dream. Those experiences could open up new doors of opportunity and take him/her to places they never would've had the chance to go by staying at home. Each family has to make their own decisions on what is best and I don't think there is a right or wrong answer for everyone. I'm sure if we went around and took a poll there would be some that regret their decisions and some that couldn't be happier (on both sides of the issue.)
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InigoMontoya
- Posts: 1716
- Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:36 pm
There is nothing natural about playing hockey. It takes quite a bit of practice for a kid to be able to play competitive hockey. I'm sure they are out there, but I've never met a kid that really enjoys playing hockey badly. The kids that are terrible quit. The are kids that are more gifted athletes that pick it up quickly and kids that have to work really hard at it. All of them have more fun when they are able to compete with adequate to above average individual skills. I hate bowling, mostly because I suck - there really isn't anything about bowling that is innately unappealing; I've probably bowled less than 40 games my entire life, which is a great contributor to why I'm terrible - which is directly the reason I don't bowl. If I have to be active while drinking a beer, I'd much rather play pool, darts, beanbags, not bowling.
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the_juiceman
- Posts: 369
- Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:17 am
Re: Developed for what?
Bravo! Bravo! well doneJoltDelivered wrote:I've been meaning to post this thought for a while and I am now just getting around to it. I would like to pose a question to this diverse, well educated group. Sorry for the long post…but I hope you find it interesting.
During my last 12 or so years as a youth hockey dad and coach wandering through the rinks of the Midwest and Canada, and as I browse through the various posts on this board I often see and hear several people reference the holy grail of hockey terms - development. It’s a term I very RARELY hear in the circles of other sports. I have found that people hold this term in extremely high reverence in youth hockey. Yet it rarely means the same thing to everyone. I have found this term to take precedence over just about any other term or objective in youth hockey. If you talk with any coach or AAA hockey parent, it's development that is paramount. Without it, it's almost as if the hockey world will crumble around us. So here is the question that I always ask myself when I hear the word development uttered:
Development for what?
Now stay with me for a second. For the most part, a hockey player's competitive career is rather short when thinking about one's life in its entirety. Maybe 10-15 years out of an avg. 75 year life span. I know there are studies out there although I don't recall where that estimate how many kids are out of hockey by the age of 15 or 16 or 17, etc... and it's rather high, over 50% I believe. And I have also read a stat somewhere along the way that the percentage of kids that go on to play competitive hockey after high school is in the single digits and of course the number of players that go on to get paid to play professionally (NHL, Europe, etc...) is in the 1% range, give or take smidge. So I go back to my original question…if the majority of kids (over 50%) are out of hockey by the time they reach high school...
Developed for what?
I apply this to one of my own children. He is in high school now and no longer playing hockey. From his 1st year of squirts to his last of year of bantams, he was a B1 player, never lower and never higher. Yet for 10 years (starting in mites) I heard a relentless battle cry for more development. He needs to concentrate on his development. That should be my focus as a parent and his focus as a player. Get him developed. So we put him in this camp and that camp and this skating school and that skating school when, really, all the time, I knew in the back of my mind, he is who he is and there is no camp, no skating school and no AAA program that would serve as the silver bullet that would turn him into something he is not…a world class hockey player. So as I look back at all the years, dollars and windshield time I spent getting him developed, I am still asking myself:
Developed for what?
He signed up to play hockey...not practice it. Don't get me wrong, I understand practice is important, but the hours and dollars spent on the special camps to work on cross-overs, edge-work, stick handling…and my all time favorite hockey term – over speed training, was for what? So he could be the best B1 player on the ice? Not much of a payoff really if you think about it. I guess all I am getting at is now, when I sit down with my son and we revisit his albeit brief hockey career, I ask him about the memories he has of hockey. Not surprisingly he often mentions an overtime goal he scored for a big win or the separated shoulder he received in a B1 Bantam region playoff game or the crushing OT defeat his team took at the hands of the hated Edina Hornets in a big squirt B tournament 7 years ago. He talks about the friends he made along the way, the coaches he liked and didn’t like and even talks about the far away places we travelled to for games. However, he never mentions a single practice or a single drill. After all he signed up to play hockey…not to be developed into something he can’t be.
He’s turned into a solid young man who will be going for his license here in a few weeks. By the way…a license we need him to get so he can help drive his 9-year-old younger brother to summer hockey practice. After all, his younger brother is smack dab in the middle of being developed. But what I can’t figure out is…
Developed for what? The statistics tell me his 9 year old brother will be out of hockey in 6-8 years…
If the kid doesn't like the development, they shouldn't do it. Most kids, I find, love being on the ice. Ask a kid that plays multiple sports which one is their favorite, and it almost always comes up hockey.
I believe in the game of hockey and kids playing as much as they can. A lot of the world's problems could be solved if we could put a hockey stick in every kid's hands.
I recall an article on the net that talked about why hockey is such a great sport and I will try to find it and post it here. The article highlighted much of why the sport is important:
- the long lost family car trips - hockey delivers this quality family time that has somewhat become a thing of the past for other families.
- maturity - Kids who billet for junior hockey teams almost always are loved by their host families as they are polite, respectful, and chip in to help. Qualities learned from playing the game.
- unselfishness and teamwork - watch any interview after an NHL playoff game or any game. Hockey players always deflect attention from themselves to their teammates and coaches....always.
- Troublemaking - it is very, very rare to hear about pro hockey players getting in bar fights, wielding fire arms, or causing other trouble....unlike other sports.
- discipline and hard work - all of the 'development' and on ice time teaches kids to work hard and to overcome adversity. Skills that will help them in their future after hockey.
So, the initial premise of this thread was "is it all worth it" for a B1 player to go through all of this 'development' in order to hang up the skates? That's up to each parent to decide for their kid. But, it is important to determine what we are 'developing'...and if we look at the bigger picture (more than stops and starts, stickhandling, and shooting) the game is doing a more important life long job of 'development' of our kids. I have many times witnessed and said the game does a better job of parenting and preparing a kid for life than many parents do themselves.
I believe in the game of hockey and kids playing as much as they can. A lot of the world's problems could be solved if we could put a hockey stick in every kid's hands.
I recall an article on the net that talked about why hockey is such a great sport and I will try to find it and post it here. The article highlighted much of why the sport is important:
- the long lost family car trips - hockey delivers this quality family time that has somewhat become a thing of the past for other families.
- maturity - Kids who billet for junior hockey teams almost always are loved by their host families as they are polite, respectful, and chip in to help. Qualities learned from playing the game.
- unselfishness and teamwork - watch any interview after an NHL playoff game or any game. Hockey players always deflect attention from themselves to their teammates and coaches....always.
- Troublemaking - it is very, very rare to hear about pro hockey players getting in bar fights, wielding fire arms, or causing other trouble....unlike other sports.
- discipline and hard work - all of the 'development' and on ice time teaches kids to work hard and to overcome adversity. Skills that will help them in their future after hockey.
So, the initial premise of this thread was "is it all worth it" for a B1 player to go through all of this 'development' in order to hang up the skates? That's up to each parent to decide for their kid. But, it is important to determine what we are 'developing'...and if we look at the bigger picture (more than stops and starts, stickhandling, and shooting) the game is doing a more important life long job of 'development' of our kids. I have many times witnessed and said the game does a better job of parenting and preparing a kid for life than many parents do themselves.
OK, here is the hockey article that I had read in the past on the Internet. Again, development is more than 'stops and starts' and endless clinics. If they like being at the rink, let them play. Sorry for the length, but it is a good read:
This I Believe - Hockey is the Cure for
what Ails America
By Joe Scatchell - 3/2/07
Failing test scores, ill-behaved day care children, gangs, drug use, the list goes on of the
ills facing our country. We look for quick answers that many times end up creating new
issues and the circle of problems grows wider in an ever-spiraling pattern. So how do we
stop the momentum and hope to reverse its damage?
Play Hockey.
I know that most of you are calling up images of stick swinging, lights out punches and
bench clearing brawls. You've been fed a lie. That those things occur is a fact. That they
occur so rarely to have painted an entirely incorrect picture of the sport is also a fact.
Thousands of games are played each week all around the world now and you can
probably name 3 or 4 incidents of outlandish behavior, total.
Here's the truth. If you want society to be civil, its citizens polite, humble and respectful
of one another get everyone involved in hockey. Hockey is above all else a family
commitment that instills the values that our society holds dearest; that we are part of
something bigger than ourselves, hard work has its reward, but most important, respect
for others.
For the uninitiated, hockey starts at 6, both in age of player and time of morning
practices! Moms and Dads, Grandmas and Grandpas, Aunts and Uncles load up the
player and equipment and it's off to the rink. Many times the rides to and from the rink
are lengthy giving parents and guardians and the children quality time to do the unusual;
talk to one another. The conversations are not always deep or life altering but that they
happen at all is becoming rarer. How did you sleep? Did you like that cereal? No, I never
heard of "Take it Back Sunday", is it a song or a group?" It's all good because you are
establishing lines of communication that may be used for much more important matters
some day.
At the rink, you get to watch your child learn. The early progress is breathtaking.
Remember how you marveled when they learned to walk? Use a fork? How many
chances to you get to see something as wonderful? Try skating sometime to see how
difficult it is for yourself. It's likely that in a short time, your child will be better at
something than you are. Talk about a no lie dose of self-respect!
Teams often play in tournaments that take place over several days and far enough from
home to require over night stays. Whole families attend these events providing yet
another opportunity to do something that is vanishing from our American landscape; the
family road trip. Again, conversation, whole discussions even, stops for meals and potty
breaks, arguments over who is touching who and all the other things that those fortunate
enough to have taken these trips in our youth, still remember fondly many years later.
Siblings look forward to hanging with all the other siblings, the hotel pool, knee hockey
in the halls, and yes, the excitement of the games themselves.
Coaches are more than hockey fanatics; they are coaches of life. Players are correctly
taught that hockey is a team sport. Everyone on the team contributes. Most teams keep
playing time evenly distributed among the players in all but the most competitive
situations to instill this fact. Parents are encouraged to bring school and home issues to
the coach so that both the parents and the Coach are consistent. For example, it’s not at
all unusual for Johnny not to play if he isn't doing well in school or disobeying at home.
Hockey can be dangerous. Sharp blades, hard sticks and the speed of play demand that
players maintain control and respect for themselves and their competitors. Players are
taught to "play the body" and not go and "hurt 'em". Indeed, the intention of checking is
to separate the puck from the player; take the puck not the player out.
The game's traditions reinforce the basic tenets of a civil society. Before each game, kids
as young as 8 years old and already placed in leadership roles as Captains, introduce
themselves to the opposing Coaches and Officials and shake their hands. The rules of the
game support the development of leadership by allowing only the Captains, not the
Coaches, to talk to the officials about game calls. When a player scores, all his teammates
join in the celebration. The players who assisted on the goal get the same point the scorer
received. Showboating does not occur in hockey. At the end of every game, all players
and Coaches line up and shake hands. The same occurs at every level and even at the end
of the NHL season.
Lest you think my arguments are specious, I offer these observations. Look at the other
professional major American sports and compare them to professional hockey. Most of
the players in the NHL and supporting professional leagues have lived away from their
families and with host families at some point. Most of us would not think of taking a
strange teenager into our home. If you speak to just about any host family, they will tell
you that the kid came in with all of the attributes I speak of. They were polite, respectful,
humble and thankful for the hospitality shown. Lifelong relationships were made. You
don't see professional hockey players being named in bar room shootings or taking
steroids or other illegal drugs. Listen to the player interviews. Universally, they deflect
any praise to their teammates and coaches. If they have a bad game or they're in a slump,
they talk about needing to work harder and blame only themselves. When they receive
awards, they start by thanking their parents and talk about those long car rides to rinks
early in the morning. They are humble, thankful.
These same things happen at every hockey banquet I've had the honor of attending. I was
privileged to spend as much time as I did with my daughter and 2 sons and have been
paid back many times over for those cold mornings when I see them working at
something hard, being polite, humble and respectful.
Thank you hockey.
This I Believe - Hockey is the Cure for
what Ails America
By Joe Scatchell - 3/2/07
Failing test scores, ill-behaved day care children, gangs, drug use, the list goes on of the
ills facing our country. We look for quick answers that many times end up creating new
issues and the circle of problems grows wider in an ever-spiraling pattern. So how do we
stop the momentum and hope to reverse its damage?
Play Hockey.
I know that most of you are calling up images of stick swinging, lights out punches and
bench clearing brawls. You've been fed a lie. That those things occur is a fact. That they
occur so rarely to have painted an entirely incorrect picture of the sport is also a fact.
Thousands of games are played each week all around the world now and you can
probably name 3 or 4 incidents of outlandish behavior, total.
Here's the truth. If you want society to be civil, its citizens polite, humble and respectful
of one another get everyone involved in hockey. Hockey is above all else a family
commitment that instills the values that our society holds dearest; that we are part of
something bigger than ourselves, hard work has its reward, but most important, respect
for others.
For the uninitiated, hockey starts at 6, both in age of player and time of morning
practices! Moms and Dads, Grandmas and Grandpas, Aunts and Uncles load up the
player and equipment and it's off to the rink. Many times the rides to and from the rink
are lengthy giving parents and guardians and the children quality time to do the unusual;
talk to one another. The conversations are not always deep or life altering but that they
happen at all is becoming rarer. How did you sleep? Did you like that cereal? No, I never
heard of "Take it Back Sunday", is it a song or a group?" It's all good because you are
establishing lines of communication that may be used for much more important matters
some day.
At the rink, you get to watch your child learn. The early progress is breathtaking.
Remember how you marveled when they learned to walk? Use a fork? How many
chances to you get to see something as wonderful? Try skating sometime to see how
difficult it is for yourself. It's likely that in a short time, your child will be better at
something than you are. Talk about a no lie dose of self-respect!
Teams often play in tournaments that take place over several days and far enough from
home to require over night stays. Whole families attend these events providing yet
another opportunity to do something that is vanishing from our American landscape; the
family road trip. Again, conversation, whole discussions even, stops for meals and potty
breaks, arguments over who is touching who and all the other things that those fortunate
enough to have taken these trips in our youth, still remember fondly many years later.
Siblings look forward to hanging with all the other siblings, the hotel pool, knee hockey
in the halls, and yes, the excitement of the games themselves.
Coaches are more than hockey fanatics; they are coaches of life. Players are correctly
taught that hockey is a team sport. Everyone on the team contributes. Most teams keep
playing time evenly distributed among the players in all but the most competitive
situations to instill this fact. Parents are encouraged to bring school and home issues to
the coach so that both the parents and the Coach are consistent. For example, it’s not at
all unusual for Johnny not to play if he isn't doing well in school or disobeying at home.
Hockey can be dangerous. Sharp blades, hard sticks and the speed of play demand that
players maintain control and respect for themselves and their competitors. Players are
taught to "play the body" and not go and "hurt 'em". Indeed, the intention of checking is
to separate the puck from the player; take the puck not the player out.
The game's traditions reinforce the basic tenets of a civil society. Before each game, kids
as young as 8 years old and already placed in leadership roles as Captains, introduce
themselves to the opposing Coaches and Officials and shake their hands. The rules of the
game support the development of leadership by allowing only the Captains, not the
Coaches, to talk to the officials about game calls. When a player scores, all his teammates
join in the celebration. The players who assisted on the goal get the same point the scorer
received. Showboating does not occur in hockey. At the end of every game, all players
and Coaches line up and shake hands. The same occurs at every level and even at the end
of the NHL season.
Lest you think my arguments are specious, I offer these observations. Look at the other
professional major American sports and compare them to professional hockey. Most of
the players in the NHL and supporting professional leagues have lived away from their
families and with host families at some point. Most of us would not think of taking a
strange teenager into our home. If you speak to just about any host family, they will tell
you that the kid came in with all of the attributes I speak of. They were polite, respectful,
humble and thankful for the hospitality shown. Lifelong relationships were made. You
don't see professional hockey players being named in bar room shootings or taking
steroids or other illegal drugs. Listen to the player interviews. Universally, they deflect
any praise to their teammates and coaches. If they have a bad game or they're in a slump,
they talk about needing to work harder and blame only themselves. When they receive
awards, they start by thanking their parents and talk about those long car rides to rinks
early in the morning. They are humble, thankful.
These same things happen at every hockey banquet I've had the honor of attending. I was
privileged to spend as much time as I did with my daughter and 2 sons and have been
paid back many times over for those cold mornings when I see them working at
something hard, being polite, humble and respectful.
Thank you hockey.
When did development replace fun? While there has to be room for both, fun is no longer the goal of many youth sports....at least from the parents perspective. Before our kids can read we're worried about their hockey careers.
SW Prez, I humbly disagree with you that most multiple sport kids prefer hockey....hockey forces a choice on too many kids and their families far too early. At least locally we're seeing a growth in football, baseball, and in particular wrestling because hockey is too long, too development focused, and too expensive for too many kids while our hockey numbers are staying the same but that's soley due to girl players coming in to replace the boys lost. Coming from Minneapolis I'd think you'd see that, Minneapolis has, what, 1 association left? And that's combined, when my oldest was playing Minneapolis had at least 4 I believe (or at least 4 teams).
I also take exception to hockey makes for good people, it does but that isn't from hockey alone...that's absurd. Those kids/adults would be good if they swam, wrestled, spelled, or were in the band.
SW Prez, I humbly disagree with you that most multiple sport kids prefer hockey....hockey forces a choice on too many kids and their families far too early. At least locally we're seeing a growth in football, baseball, and in particular wrestling because hockey is too long, too development focused, and too expensive for too many kids while our hockey numbers are staying the same but that's soley due to girl players coming in to replace the boys lost. Coming from Minneapolis I'd think you'd see that, Minneapolis has, what, 1 association left? And that's combined, when my oldest was playing Minneapolis had at least 4 I believe (or at least 4 teams).
I also take exception to hockey makes for good people, it does but that isn't from hockey alone...that's absurd. Those kids/adults would be good if they swam, wrestled, spelled, or were in the band.
Agree on many points Goldy. Of the major sports, hockey seems to produce some of the best adults. My main point is that while folks can get caught up in the insanity of 'over-development' to keep up with the Jones's, overall, hockey played through the winter months is a positive on individual character and family development...not that wrestling or basketball don't...but I believe hockey delivers the better product for families.goldy313 wrote:When did development replace fun? While there has to be room for both, fun is no longer the goal of many youth sports....at least from the parents perspective. Before our kids can read we're worried about their hockey careers.
SW Prez, I humbly disagree with you that most multiple sport kids prefer hockey....hockey forces a choice on too many kids and their families far too early. At least locally we're seeing a growth in football, baseball, and in particular wrestling because hockey is too long, too development focused, and too expensive for too many kids while our hockey numbers are staying the same but that's soley due to girl players coming in to replace the boys lost. Coming from Minneapolis I'd think you'd see that, Minneapolis has, what, 1 association left? And that's combined, when my oldest was playing Minneapolis had at least 4 I believe (or at least 4 teams).
I also take exception to hockey makes for good people, it does but that isn't from hockey alone...that's absurd. Those kids/adults would be good if they swam, wrestled, spelled, or were in the band.
Regarding hockey in Minneapolis, things are fine. Southwest and Washburn have merged, not because of lack of numbers, but because consolidating allows us to manage more efficiently and also to place kids on teams with kids of like skill - something we couldn't do as separate associations. At 640 players (heavily weighted at the mite/mighty mite spectrum) in 10-11, our numbers are probably better than they were with four associations 30 years ago. In addition, there is a small association in the Edison area (City of Lakes Association - District 1) with about 50 kids (mites and squirt C's), and about 350 kids playing Park Board hockey that also acts as a feeder. Both of those programs serve the city well in providing recreational hockey opportunities for kids at a lower cost/commitment level.
We push and encourage kids to play other sports. The Minneapolis United soccer program has grown to be the largest soccer club in the state and is full of our hockey kids...and it isn't cheap to play. The Minneapolis LAX program is growing fast with a high number of hockey kids too. I know there are other hockey programs and private programs (not to mention names) that push kids to make hockey their first priority. We don't.
-
JoltDelivered
- Posts: 316
- Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:31 am
Good comments from all...thanks for posting them. A few clarifications:
I get the "the game of hockey will develop a player as a person" argument but I don't think that's what people, or at least the people I bump into at the rink, mean when they start throwing around the development term. They are most definitly talking about a players on-ice physical development. (e.g. skating, shooting, stickhandling skills). I think there are several great extracirricular activites that help develop a child's mental disposition and personality and I think you most cerntainly can include sports as one of those activities.
I don't have any issue with people chasing a dream and spending countless hours "developing" (oh shoot, there I go) their child player and it was not my intent to even inusate otherwise in my original post. I think we (parents) all get caught up in that to varying degrees. I have often joked with friends that there is no more powerful drug on this planet than when a coach calls and parent and the coach says, "Hey, we think your son is special. We'd like him to play for us." The emotion that a conversation like that conjurs up in one's belly is extremely hard to resist or ignore. To which the coach then follows up with, "And of course, our focus will be on your son's development."
And to close, I know some people have mentioned that they have heard of this in other youth sports. While that may be true, I really haven't. I have had kids play travelling baseball, football, traveling soccer and traveling Lacrosse. Oh and Jr. league golf too and I just haven't heard the laser focus and magnifying glass put on development in those other sports. I don't think it makes hockey better or worse...just unique maybe.
But it's hard to disagree with right? I mean afterall, who doesn't want their child to develop?
I get the "the game of hockey will develop a player as a person" argument but I don't think that's what people, or at least the people I bump into at the rink, mean when they start throwing around the development term. They are most definitly talking about a players on-ice physical development. (e.g. skating, shooting, stickhandling skills). I think there are several great extracirricular activites that help develop a child's mental disposition and personality and I think you most cerntainly can include sports as one of those activities.
I don't have any issue with people chasing a dream and spending countless hours "developing" (oh shoot, there I go) their child player and it was not my intent to even inusate otherwise in my original post. I think we (parents) all get caught up in that to varying degrees. I have often joked with friends that there is no more powerful drug on this planet than when a coach calls and parent and the coach says, "Hey, we think your son is special. We'd like him to play for us." The emotion that a conversation like that conjurs up in one's belly is extremely hard to resist or ignore. To which the coach then follows up with, "And of course, our focus will be on your son's development."
And to close, I know some people have mentioned that they have heard of this in other youth sports. While that may be true, I really haven't. I have had kids play travelling baseball, football, traveling soccer and traveling Lacrosse. Oh and Jr. league golf too and I just haven't heard the laser focus and magnifying glass put on development in those other sports. I don't think it makes hockey better or worse...just unique maybe.
But it's hard to disagree with right? I mean afterall, who doesn't want their child to develop?
"I find tinsel distracting"