Development Opinions

spin-o-rama · Post by **spin-o-rama** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:57 pm

Quasar wrote:
observer wrote:
offer any thing like USA AAA Midget
Two kids from Michigan were drafted. 15 from Minnesota. I found that almost impossible with all the AAA Tier 1 clubs in Michigan. I mean really, I just don't even get it. From my perspective, for all the time and money spent in these two states, their system has failed. Several hundred families spending between $20,000 and $30,000 a year and two players were drafted. That's amazing. So much for the AAA Midget development model.
That's Michigan, this is Minnesota. All I am saying is with our rich history, and the hockey knowledge in Minnesita hockey, we should be able to do better.

Newsflash: 15>2.

jpiehl · Post by **jpiehl** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:26 pm

I have to agree with Quasar, I think we can do better. Yes, there were more kids drafted from Minnesota than from any other state. But the first one didn't go until number 60, almost the last pick of the second round. Which backs up the idea that these are role players, and not stars. This article from NHL.com sums it up, only 1 of the top 21 American draft picks was from Minnesota, while 4 came from Pennsylvania. New York, Illinois, California, Connecticut, Missouri, and Texas all had more players in that group. And Minnesota is on par with the hockey power states of Alaska, Arizona, and Ohio with one. I guess I don't know all of the answers, but to say that there is nothing wrong is ignoring the reality of what the NHL is seeing.

American draftees hail from non-traditional placesSaturday, 06.25.2011 / 1:27 PM / 2011 NHL Entry Draft By Emily Kaplan - NHL.com Staff Writer 0
Share The 2011 NHL Draft in St. Paul Minnesota certainly has an American flavor -- even if it isn't exactly a traditional one.

Of the first 21 U.S. born players selected in this year's draft, only one was born in the traditional power states of Minnesota, Michigan and Massachusetts. That would be Connor Murphy, Phoenix's first round pick at No. 20. Murphy was born in Boston.

Pennsylvania had the largest representation with four players being selected from the Keystone State. The Pennsylvania bunch is led by J.T. Miller, a Pittsburgh native, who was selected at No. 15 by the New York Rangers.

Three players hail from New York while there are two players drafted each from Illinois, California, Connecticut, Missouri and Texas. In addition, there is one player from Alaska, Arizona and Ohio among the first 21 U.S. born players selected.

Fans at the Xcel Energy Center did have something big to cheer for -- albeit a little later on. The hometown Minnesota Wild made a splash by swapping picks with the Canucks to obtain the No. 60 selection in the second round. The Wild used it to pick Mario Lucia of Wayzata, who is the son of Unniversity of Minnesota coach Don Lucia. Lucia was the first player from the state picked in the draft.

observer · Post by **observer** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:27 pm

And, as I've said, because of the tremendous growth of year around hockey in Minnesota I believe the Minnesota number will go nothing but up over the next 3-4-5 years. I'll suggest we'll be pulling away. Watch. The kids coming up are developmentally ahead of where their older brothers and neighbors were 2-3 years ago.

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:30 pm

observer wrote:And, as I've said, because of the tremendous growth of year around hockey in Minnesota I believe the Minnesota number will go nothing but up over the next 3-4-5 years. I'll suggest we'll be pulling away. Watch. The kids coming up are developmentally ahead of where their older brothers and neighbors were 2-3 years ago.

This I totally agree with

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:32 pm

observer wrote:Quasar,

Lot's of interesting questions. I think this board is great for that.

Just guessing but it sounds like you may be in a tough spot. Maybe not happy with your youth association or the community high school. In my opinion here's a problem with the questions you raise. I don't believe the top players, at the top high schools, will leave high school hockey, and the Elite League, to play on these presumed all star teams you envision. Younger kids won’t leave their strong association teams to play on these teams either. Kids want to play at Edina, Minnetonka, Maple Grove, Eagan, etc. and aren't going to leave that opportunity to play on any other team. So, that leaves you with middle tier players as opposed to the top ones. What's happening now are families are open enrolling their player at a new school for the 9th grade, moving their player to a private school or, moving their family all together. I don't see that changing any time soon.

I believe we have the best of both worlds currently. Winter association hockey combined with summer AAA is a great model. At PeeWee and Bantam that's darn near 100 games a year. I believe Minnesota Hockey is on a big time rise because 10 years ago there were only 3-4 AAA teams at any level. Now there are 20 AAA teams at every level. Many more kids skating 10 months out of the year I believe will yield more and better players over the next 4-5-6 years.

Do you see a problem with your gotta move your kid to a big time program attitude? What about the phenom kid in Pine City, MN that wants to stay going to school with his friends? Could he live out his Hockey goals and still be with his friends if he had a tier1 option at the NSC? You're fine with uprooting families for Hockey? You're fine with holding kids back if they are not able to move? It takes a person with horns on thier head to be fine with this....

You contradict yourself.... "Many more kids skating more" Maybe some kids would like to skate 80 full games instead of 30-35 one hour games at the squirt level.

You talk about MN kids getting better now because they're skating more in the Summer.

These are your words....

What is the best developmental part of MN's model, AAA, or winter association

Did you have to move for Hockey?

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:45 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:
observer wrote:Quasar,

Lot's of interesting questions. I think this board is great for that.

Just guessing but it sounds like you may be in a tough spot. Maybe not happy with your youth association or the community high school. In my opinion here's a problem with the questions you raise. I don't believe the top players, at the top high schools, will leave high school hockey, and the Elite League, to play on these presumed all star teams you envision. Younger kids won’t leave their strong association teams to play on these teams either. Kids want to play at Edina, Minnetonka, Maple Grove, Eagan, etc. and aren't going to leave that opportunity to play on any other team. So, that leaves you with middle tier players as opposed to the top ones. What's happening now are families are open enrolling their player at a new school for the 9th grade, moving their player to a private school or, moving their family all together. I don't see that changing any time soon.

I believe we have the best of both worlds currently. Winter association hockey combined with summer AAA is a great model. At PeeWee and Bantam that's darn near 100 games a year. I believe Minnesota Hockey is on a big time rise because 10 years ago there were only 3-4 AAA teams at any level. Now there are 20 AAA teams at every level. Many more kids skating 10 months out of the year I believe will yield more and better players over the next 4-5-6 years.
Do you see a problem with your gotta move your kid to a big time program attitude? What about the phenom kid in Pine City, MN that wants to stay going to school with his friends? Could he live out his Hockey goals and still be with his friends if he had a tier1 option at the NSC? You're fine with uprooting families for Hockey? You're fine with holding kids back if they are not able to move? It takes a person with horns on thier head to be fine with this....

You contradict yourself.... "Many more kids skating more" Maybe some kids would like to skate 80 full games instead of 30-35 one hour games at the squirt level.

You talk about MN kids getting better now because they're skating more in the Summer. These are your words....

What is the best developmental part of MN's model, AAA, or winter association

Did you have to move for Hockey?

Its pretty obvious that all the high level development is taking place in the summer. Why is that ? I think its because you can choose a team that is right for you. Be it showcase or the machine. Many think that summer hockey combined with the normal winter season is good enough. It is not good enough!!

A super talented kid should be able to go to high school in his community with his friends, and play high level hockey without leaving his community. This idea that all you have to do is move is really short sighted.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:48 pm

Quasar, Don't let Observer try to run you off. He's just trying to keep his current situation the best option around.

Supplemental all star games would only help. I wonder if he said terrible idea when they thought about starting the elite league.

spin-o-rama · Post by **spin-o-rama** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:54 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:What about the phenom kid in Pine City, MN that wants to stay going to school with his friends? Could he live out his Hockey goals and still be with his friends if he had a tier1 option at the NSC?

Just curious, what makes you think the NSC tier 1 team will have a spot for the Pine City kid? How many Tier 1 teams limit their geographical recruiting area in order to pick up the small town kids? That NSC tier 1 team may fill up with kids from outside MN.

It's only 10 more miles from Pine City to Somerset than to the NSC. Why not just play there?

observer · Post by **observer** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:55 pm

Your asking a lot of questions.

I do feel sorry for the kid in Pine City. But, if there was a District team I'm saying that several of the best 60 players aren't leaving their association to play with the Pine City player anyways. So, he's left to play with good players from other small associations and the team won't be top 20 in the metro anyways. Nice idea but I don't believe it's the solution because strong association players won't leave their association.

Maybe the Pine City player can be waived to a neighboring association that does offer what you consider real A level. Maybe a co-op A team with a few associations and each loses 1-2-3 players and the assocation's top team is B.

The combination of winter association and expanding summer options is what is improving all of our players.

I don't believe in moving for hockey but just said some families are.

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:56 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:Quasar, Don't let Observer try to run you off. He's just trying to keep his current situation the best option around.

Supplemental all star games would only help. I wonder if he said terrible idea when they thought about starting the elite league.

I'm not leaving... Spin-o-dufus has already tried that.. We are in the minority, but that's ok ..because we are right. I am continually amazed at some of the arguments forwarded by the "Majority" I have no problem with someone having their own opinion, I just have a problem with them having their own facts, that, and the inability to see any picture larger than the one inside their head. We'll just keep moving on !!

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:02 pm

observer wrote:Your asking a lot of questions.

I do feel sorry for the kid in Pine City. But, if there was a District team I'm saying that several of the best 60 players aren't leaving their association to play with the Pine City player anyways. So, he's left to play with good players from other small associations and the team won't be top 20 in the metro anyways. Nice idea but I don't believe it's the solution because strong association players won't leave their association.

Maybe the Pine City player can be waived to a neighboring association that does offer what you consider real A level. Maybe a co-op A team with a few associations and each loses 1-2-3 players and the assocation's top team is B.

The combination of winter association and expanding summer options is what is improving all of our players.

I don't believe in moving for hockey but just said some families are.

I'm talking about District teams. Last I heard Pine City is in District 10. I think maybe we could pull one decent team out of there.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:06 pm

spin-o-rama wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:What about the phenom kid in Pine City, MN that wants to stay going to school with his friends? Could he live out his Hockey goals and still be with his friends if he had a tier1 option at the NSC?
Just curious, what makes you think the NSC tier 1 team will have a spot for the Pine City kid? How many Tier 1 teams limit their geographical recruiting area in order to pick up the small town kids? That NSC tier 1 team may fill up with kids from outside MN.

It's only 10 more miles from Pine City to Somerset than to the NSC. Why not just play there?

I said phenom.....

Maybe because it's 10 miles closer and a half hour faster (35w?). There are quite a few small association district 10 kids that play for the fire. Somerset is not driveable for many in the state... but that's not the point.

observer · Post by **observer** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:07 pm

because we are right.

The only thing you're right about is you're stuck in some sort of pickle. That makes two of you except Quasar is a grandpa. So then there was one.

And, what if there was a District team that was a popular option and your player doesn't make it. How'd that work for you. I agree it's a tough spot but just don't think your ideas are likely.

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:13 pm

observer wrote:
because we are right.
The only thing you're right about is you're stuck in some sort of pickle. That makes two of you except Quasar is a grandpa. So then there was one.

And, what if there was a District team that was a popular option and your player doesn't make it. How'd that work for you. I agree it's a tough spot but just don't think your ideas are likely.

Quasar is a Grandpa !!!! Dude ...Is that all you got???

Come on Man ...

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:15 pm

observer wrote:
because we are right.
The only thing you're right about is you're stuck in some sort of pickle. That makes two of you except Quasar is a grandpa. So then there was one.

And, what if there was a District team that was a popular option and your player doesn't make it. How'd that work for you. I agree it's a tough spot but just don't think your ideas are likely.

Who said anything about it being our kid. Not me

I'm talking for any kid that can ..Get it ??

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:26 pm

observer wrote:
because we are right.
The only thing you're right about is you're stuck in some sort of pickle. That makes two of you except Quasar is a grandpa. So then there was one.

And, what if there was a District team that was a popular option and your player doesn't make it. How'd that work for you. I agree it's a tough spot but just don't think your ideas are likely.

Meltdown?

Another stomping his feet as he's crying.......

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:32 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:
observer wrote:
because we are right.
The only thing you're right about is you're stuck in some sort of pickle. That makes two of you except Quasar is a grandpa. So then there was one.

And, what if there was a District team that was a popular option and your player doesn't make it. How'd that work for you. I agree it's a tough spot but just don't think your ideas are likely.
Meltdown?

Another stomping his feet as he's crying.......

Yeah ...pickles and grandpa is a pretty weak argument...

spin-o-rama · Post by **spin-o-rama** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:34 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:
spin-o-rama wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:What about the phenom kid in Pine City, MN that wants to stay going to school with his friends? Could he live out his Hockey goals and still be with his friends if he had a tier1 option at the NSC?
Just curious, what makes you think the NSC tier 1 team will have a spot for the Pine City kid? How many Tier 1 teams limit their geographical recruiting area in order to pick up the small town kids? That NSC tier 1 team may fill up with kids from outside MN.

It's only 10 more miles from Pine City to Somerset than to the NSC. Why not just play there?
I said phenom.....

Maybe because it's 10 miles closer and a half hour faster (35w?). There are quite a few small association district 10 kids that play for the fire. Somerset is not driveable for many in the state... but that's not the point.

So your definition of phenom is an automatic top 15 kid on a metro all star team that is also open to billet kids from all over the US?
Now I'm curious how many small town "phenoms" there are. Roseau will have to take a back seat.

observer · Post by **observer** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:40 pm

Meltdown?

Another stomping his feet as he's crying.......

That's you my friend.

I suggested you're in some sort of difficult situation. Correct? Not you? Someone else?

I gave you two solutions that you can start to work on today. Form a co-op A level team with the smallest 6 D10 associations. I'm telling you, no one is leaving Blaine. After that team is formed, through tryouts, players that don't make the special A team return to their association and play B. Your association can host the A team so the ice is close to home. Girls teams already do it.

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:43 pm

spin-o-rama wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
spin-o-rama wrote: Just curious, what makes you think the NSC tier 1 team will have a spot for the Pine City kid? How many Tier 1 teams limit their geographical recruiting area in order to pick up the small town kids? That NSC tier 1 team may fill up with kids from outside MN.

It's only 10 more miles from Pine City to Somerset than to the NSC. Why not just play there?
I said phenom.....

Maybe because it's 10 miles closer and a half hour faster (35w?). There are quite a few small association district 10 kids that play for the fire. Somerset is not driveable for many in the state... but that's not the point.
So your definition of phenom is an automatic top 15 kid on a metro all star team that is also open to billet kids from all over the US?
Now I'm curious how many small town "phenoms" there are. Roseau will have to take a back seat.

Roseau is in District 16 They have a few good players.

And, just because a team plays at the sports center doesn't mean is some kind of national all star team.
You just gotta quit makin' stuff up
And not that its important but Somerset is about 50 miles from pine city, and that's the short way down the Wisconsin side.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:43 pm

spin-o-rama wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:
spin-o-rama wrote: Just curious, what makes you think the NSC tier 1 team will have a spot for the Pine City kid? How many Tier 1 teams limit their geographical recruiting area in order to pick up the small town kids? That NSC tier 1 team may fill up with kids from outside MN.

It's only 10 more miles from Pine City to Somerset than to the NSC. Why not just play there?
I said phenom.....

Maybe because it's 10 miles closer and a half hour faster (35w?). There are quite a few small association district 10 kids that play for the fire. Somerset is not driveable for many in the state... but that's not the point.
So your definition of phenom is an automatic top 15 kid on a metro all star team that is also open to billet kids from all over the US?
Now I'm curious how many small town "phenoms" there are. Roseau will have to take a back seat.

You asked about a small town kid being able to make a tier1 team...... And I said there are quite a few small town kids from District 10 that play for the Fire..

The Helen Keller story is becoming more amazing to me.

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:51 pm

observer wrote:
Meltdown?

Another stomping his feet as he's crying.......
That's you my friend.

I suggested you're in some sort of difficult situation. Correct? Not you? Someone else?

I gave you two solutions that you can start to work on today. Form a co-op A level team with the smallest 6 D10 associations. I'm telling you, no one is leaving Blaine. After that team is formed, through tryouts, players that don't make the special A team return to their association and play B. Your association can host the A team so the ice is close to home. Girls teams already do it.

I think what your saying is that anything is ok as long as it is within your frame ? Like district winter co-op A teams are no threat, whereas a district wide year around team would be?

Do I have that right?

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:54 pm

observer wrote:
Meltdown?

Another stomping his feet as he's crying.......
That's you my friend.

I suggested you're in some sort of difficult situation. Correct? Not you? Someone else?

I gave you two solutions that you can start to work on today. Form a co-op A level team with the smallest 6 D10 associations. I'm telling you, no one is leaving Blaine. After that team is formed, through tryouts, players that don't make the special A team return to their association and play B. Your association can host the A team so the ice is close to home. Girls teams already do it.

You better read what you wrote. Talk about off the wall........ and grandpa?

Any class?

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:57 pm

observer wrote:
because we are right.
The only thing you're right about is you're stuck in some sort of pickle. That makes two of you except Quasar is a grandpa. So then there was one.

And, what if there was a District team that was a popular option and your player doesn't make it. How'd that work for you. I agree it's a tough spot but just don't think your ideas are likely.

Turrets maybe?

Quasar · Post by **Quasar** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:00 pm

MrBoDangles wrote:
observer wrote:
Meltdown?

Another stomping his feet as he's crying.......
That's you my friend.

I suggested you're in some sort of difficult situation. Correct? Not you? Someone else?

I gave you two solutions that you can start to work on today. Form a co-op A level team with the smallest 6 D10 associations. I'm telling you, no one is leaving Blaine. After that team is formed, through tryouts, players that don't make the special A team return to their association and play B. Your association can host the A team so the ice is close to home. Girls teams already do it.
You better read what you wrote. Talk about off the wall........ and grandpa?

Any class?

No problem Bo...

My grandson, my son and I still play hockey together.. That's good enough for me.

PS. Used to be pretty good on D, but Im not a threat anymore