Quasar wrote:No Political Connections wrote:SECoach wrote:
This where you are dead wrong. Heads are not buried in the sand and they do see it coming.
The locations that you mention that are not community based do not have the demographics to support it. The affiliates that lost their community based hockey are not disapointed they don't have control, they are dissapointed that they have stopped developing hockey players the way they once did. I know that some here give no credit to the people who spend their lives and careers making hockey better, the sad thing is they are suckered into thinking the dad in row 3 has all the answers. Talk to the people that run, yes, the people involved, in New England Hockey and see how they feel about the community based model they used to have.
Your statements about California, Arizona, Florida, only make my point about how USA Hockey allows each affiliate to self govern. Those areas use the model that works with their demographics, not because it's the answer to making hockey better in Minnesota. The answer is very simple to me. Use the model that allows the most kids to be involved for the district. USA Hockey and Minnesota Hockey have some work to do when it comes to providing opportunity for high level players at age appropriate levels. No one has their heads buried in the sand in this area. The ADM provides for age appropriate training and development. The focus has been at the mite level and will grow to include the higher levels. The affiliates that have winter heavy mite schedules with full ice games and lots of travel are the ones that have seen their development plummet.
The thing that is the most ironic to me are the calls for USA Hockey and Minnesota Hockey to get with the times, pull your head out of the sand, old cronies sitting on their butts, yet when change is researched, debated, and instituted, with initiatives such as the ADM, body contact guidelines, squirt game limits, limits on full ice games for mites the folks on this board cry foul. Which way is it or is is just that no one asked you that you really have a problem with? You want progressive leadership, but then disagree with everything the leadership does.
My point is that I want to have the best opportunity for each and every kid to develop both their hockey skills and their life skills. I want this for all kids, not just mine. You are right, people have put their lives into this. It worked in the past but it is not going to continue to work in the future. I want a strong MN Hockey organization. I want to keep developing kids to go on to be great citizens, great doctors, mechanics, teachers or what ever they want to be, including pro hockey players. The absolute last thing that I want is to have winter hockey in MN turn into what the AAA summer scene has turned into. I do not want to see 32-0 blow outs in the winter, I don't want it to be the wild west and to have the Sheriff sitting down at Miss Kitty's having a beer and ogling the new girl. I like hockey for lots and lots of reasons. But, the current model of association hockey is not going to continue to work, it needs to be fixed. When AAU or it's compliment gets here (and it will) I want MN Hockey to be able to deal with it. I understand your points about wanting what is best for the masses and the fact that some kids are going to fall through the cracks and get hosed is just part of life. It is my opinion though that if MN Hockey is really and truly trying to do what is best for all of the kids who play hockey in MN they will do what they need to do and that is to open up the rules. Sure, there will be fall out, some associations will get smaller and some will get bigger. Does the fact that the only way that you can keep a high number of kids playing hockey in MN is by forcing them to skate some place really count? Does the fact that the Dear Leader in North Korea wins every election by a land slide mean that the people really like him or just that he is the only name on the ballet so you have to vote for him? The main issue here is that there are problems within the association model of hockey that have to be fixed and the only way to fix them is going to be to make some changes. Those changes are going to hurt some people and help others and it is my contention that it will be better over all for hockey in MN. Right now there is no incentive to work, you are slotted into a slot when you are in squirts or peewees and that is where land. You don't have to work to get better because you have always been an A player and always will be, no worries. No matter how hard ou work you are not going to make the A team if you are not slotted as an A player. Since that is the truth why work? Why try to get better, it is not going to help. In both cases both kids do not get better and hockey over all suffers. The reason that the clubs in those other states that I mentioned are turning out high quality players is because each and every kid has to work his tail off to get a spot and to keep it. A rising tide lifts all boats, competition is good for everybody and right now there is no competition in MN. This is all going to boil down to one thing and that is the coming freedom to choose where you want to spend your money to play hockey. MN Hockey says that no matter how screwed up your association is, no matter how much it is lacking in development, no matter how bad the future for your kid looks because he is a fish in a pond that is drying up, you have to stay there. You can't move down the road to find a better fit. People like AAU or etc are going to be telling you that if you want to play for club X go for it tryouts are next Saturday. You don't like X? No troubles, Y has theirs in a week. We are not talking about the elite kids here, those kids are getting what the want from MN Hockey as it stands now. In the beginning when AAU or something like it gets here the migration will start in the out state associations. Those small ones where your opportunities are limited or the land scape is such a mess that nobody is happy. Where what makes you a B kid rather than an A kid is something other than hockey skills. Then when those kids are having success the B+/A- kids in the cities will start to sit up and take notice. Those kids will start to move around. It will be too late then. All I am saying is that the stuff that you mentioned in your post is good, I don't agree with some of the stuff and I agree with other parts of it. But, no matter how bad it stings and no matter how badly MN Hockey does not want to admit it, the days of association hockey's total control of youth hockey players are rapidly coming to an end. When it ends does MN Hockey want to be standing around talking about the good old days and how cool it was or do they want to have a hand in guiding hockey in MN? They can keep AAU and year round AAA hockey from setting up in MN by fixing the biggest issue that we the peasants have, the lack of choice of where to spend our money on our kids. If they choose to continue to force association hockey and it's total control of the kids onto us they are creating a group of kids and parents who are willing to try something different to see how much better it is and they are turning MN into fertile grounds to attract people who want to come to town to provide that service. MN Hockey is dealing with the details and the window dressing. They are polishing the fenders, cleaning the windshield, spit shining the tires and etc and all the while ignoring that nasty knocking sound that is coming from under the hood when the engine is started up. Do you want to pop the hood and try to fix it or just wait till it blows up and then stand around with your buddies and talk about how cool it was when your car worked? That is what is coming, not because I want it to, not because you don't want it to, it is coming. Shall we get ready for it or let it cream us as it blows over us? Good idea to try to get out of it's way perhaps? Doing what we have always done and trying to tell everybody that it can't happen to us is not going to work anymore because that light in the tunnel is not the other end of the tunnel it is a freight train headed our way.
WOW .. NPC you have put a frame around the situation.. Let me add one thing.
The Coach continues to think the opposition to his point of view has something to do with ADM, checking, USA hockey etc.
It should be clear to anyone reading this thread that the lack of choice is the big stumbling block. The summer scene is proof enough that people are looking for something more than whats being offered in the winter season. A couple of rule changes would solve a lot of problems. The only reason for leaving USA hockey for AAU or some other program is the fact that USA hockey let's every state do what they want.
In Minnesota this means total control of members options. It's interesting that the Coach thinks the USA hockey position of non interference is wonderful , but then supports the exact opposite position for Minnesota hockey.
It's Been real informative so far.
Oh shoot I'm sorry, I thought this was the "ADM question" thread. In any case, I don't beleive that all the kids playing summer hockey are sitting around saying why can't winter hockey be this much fun. True, is is probably more fun for some parents. After all, it's summer. Where things go off track is thinking that summer hockey is AAA hockey. In Minnesota's summer hockey model kids play where they want, at the level they want. Many play with friends regardless of talent level, many kids play on a given team because their dad is the coach. Yes, there are a few teams that somewhat provide an opportunity to select a team based solely on their current talent level. These few teams play each other over and over, and beat the tar out of most others.
If it were to be a true Tier 1 or Tier 2 program you would see the same problems and more that you may be seeing in SOME associations. With nepotism, kids being pegged at a certain level at young ages, etc. The big difference is after all that shakes out, there will be many, many, fewer hockey players in the state of Minnesota. Like in New England, the players pegged as elite at 8 years old, may or may not pan out, and the vast majority of others, that may or may not have turned out to have some real talent, will be doing others things than playing hockey. When the 8 year old is a AA or A player rather than AAA (in Minnesota summer everybody is AAA) the fallout from that will have Minnesotans yearning for the good old days of community based hockey. Big picture, long term results are important to consider. Most parents are not interested in the long term results for anyone other than 1 or 2 kids. This is normal and I don't say that as a slam. I say it to make the point that what seems to make sense for an individual can have devestating unintended consequenses. One of the purposes of a governing body in any sport is to protect against that. USA and Minnesota Hockey have "seen the light" and recognize the need for more opportunity for elite players. Minnesota has created many new opportunities for them. The problem, and it can be seen reading these forums, is that the same people calling for more high level opportunity, complaing that it's the same kids getting the chances. Well, according to the ADM we should expect kids to have separated themselves at around 15 years old. At the younger levels, it's about giving as many as possible the opportunity. True AAA hockey will devastate that goal. You state that kids are pegged into a certain level and have not motivation to get better in association hockey. The kids that truly want to improve, and do improve and not left behind. I'll give you that some associations may create this. The vast majority do not. What I have certainly seen is a number of parents that would move their child the first time they make the mite B team. Not encourage their child to enjoy their season and keep working, not well maybe another kid looked better at tryouts, they take their ball and go home. The sad thing is from a development standpoint, the kid that went to the lower level probably had more chance to develop.
I enjoy the debate. I think it's a great opportunity to expose other ideas and create some understanding of others, but if you insist on making it about me, the Coach this, and the coach that. Yes I will take my ball and go home. I would think you should be hungry for some explanation from someone that disagrees with the AAA model in Minnesota, but if it's just to start making personal attacks, then I'm not interested.
