Deep Breath wrote:Can I form at team to play in a tournament, roster Minnesota kids, and take to play in Detroit? Our affiliate would approve the roster.
Have to have an affiliate (such as Minnesota or Wisconsin) sign off on the roster, before it could play in a USA sanctioned event; which will not happen.
If it was that simple, the Fire teams could simply call themselves the Metro Fire and go to the Nike Bauer or the Silver Stick. An afilliate member has to sign off.
Bernie is forming a team. He'll try to enter his team in these tournaments. He might be denied. Just like the stupid D6 decision, a denied decision will be called a stupid decision for the fact that he's not BEING ALLOWED to run his business the way he wants to. Instead of being big news in just the state of Hockey, it will be national news at the grandest level..... Kids being held back again by our totalitarian governing body. USA and MN Hockey will be exposed in that they don't allow the same opportunities for MN kids
It's really very simple....... Denied...... Hey sir, do I have a news story for you!
O-townClown wrote:Q's on a mission here, but it doesn't seem like he's started by trying to work within the existing rules. We see the same thing down here. Rules will permit certain things, but people don't even try to go that path before trying to circumvent. I'll refer to the MAHA website to see if I can find rules regarding this.
If you worried a little less about Q you would have a more serene evening.
Q is not on a mission.. He has a lot of spare time so he is arguing for all those that would like to and for whatever reason don't. Rules are not the end all of life. They are in this case a way to stop people from having a choice because the powers that be are afraid if they don't have a monopoly they will lose their franchise. There are all kinds of rules. some good some bad. Like the one about separate drinking fountains..
you spend a lot of time trying to denigrate me. Why? You got so wound up the other night you didn't even know who you were talking to.
Stay on the subject and forget about me.. You'll be a lot happier...
The silence speaks volumes. The Fire was a legitimate Tier 1 candidate that met the criteria WAHA set forth in its Guidebook. WAHA knows this and their only cause for denial was that they are limited to 4 Tier 1 programs, one of which does not even meet their own criteria. The Fire had seniority over other Tier 1 programs in WI and was by far the most competitive overall program.
The silence speaks volumes. The Fire was a legitimate Tier 1 candidate that met the criteria WAHA set forth in its Guidebook. WAHA knows this and their only cause for denial was that they are limited to 4 Tier 1 programs, one of which does not even meet their own criteria. The Fire had seniority over other Tier 1 programs in WI and was by far the most competitive overall program.
TF34
Is there a rule that says 90 % of the kids had to be from Wisconsin? and did playing at Somerset satisfy the other 90% rule?
This has never been clear to me, and I suppose many others. Could you give us a simple version of what the WAHA criteria is/was ?
Thank's Q
Here is the definition from the waha guide book, it a little long but figured i would throw it out there. Maybe someone with the fire could let us know what the sticking point was.
WISCONSIN AMATEUR HOCKEY / USA HOCKEY TIER DEFINITION
DEFINITION AND CRITERIA
TIER I
TEAM WISCONSIN - The Before and After midget-age program sanctioned by the Wisconsin Amateur Hockey Association.
Tier I Committee: The WAHA President shall establish and appoint a Tier I Committee comprised of a minimum of three (3) WAHA Directors. The WAHA President shall appoint the Tier 1 Committee Chairperson.
Authority: The Tier I Committee shall have responsibility for all matters pertaining to Tier I Member Associations, Tier I Organizations, Tier I Teams and Tier I Hockey, subject to the WAHA Board of Directors review, direction, change and approval. This shall include, but is not limited to, recommending the following: (i) granting or terminating of authority to organize and/or operate a Tier I organization, club or association ("Tier I Organization") and/or field a Tier I Team ("Tier I Team"); (ii) the total number of Tier I Teams permitted in any age division; and, (iii) establishing guidelines which shall be used to carry out the purpose of the Committee.
General Intent: The general intent of Tier I Hockey in Wisconsin is to provide an opportunity for the best Wisconsin youth players to develop and compete at the highest level of hockey available in North America at their ages by and through USA Hockey and WAHA. Tier I Hockey in Wisconsin is limited to those youth players who have the desire and ability to play at a higher level and wish to continue to develop as players by playing Tier I Hockey. Tier I Hockey is not intended to place pressure on any Youth Player to play Tier I Hockey.
Guidelines For Determining The Number of Teams: Guidelines for determining the number of Tier I Teams shall include, but not be limited to the following:
The number of rostered players in an age division;
The number of rostered players in the age division who will play Tier I hockey;
Not more than four (4) Tier I Organizations and no more than 5% of boys registered skaters in the state of Wisconsin. An organization will field no more than six (6) Tier I Teams;
No Tier I Organization shall have more than one (1) team at an age level, except where the WAHA Rules authorize Major and Minor levels at that age level and then the Tier I Organization may have two teams at that age level, one team at Major and one team at Minor only. A Minor player is defined specifically as one that is at the first year of that age level;
No Tier I Organization may have a Squirt Minor or Mite team;
No Player may play on any Tier I Team unless that player is of at least Squirt age (under USA Hockey age classifications) for the upcoming season. No Mite age (under USA Hockey age classifications) players are allowed to play Tier I Hockey.
Tier I Organizations:
General: A Tier I Organization is an organization duly organized and operating in accordance with the By-Laws, Rules, Regulations and Policies of WAHA and authorized annually by WAHA to field, govern and control Tier I Teams organized by that Tier I Organization in the State of Wisconsin on a season by season term and which authorization expires annually at the end of the authorized season (September 1 through August 31).
Limitation: Tier I Organizations must be an entirely separate and distinct entity and operation apart from a Tier II Organization. A Tier I Organization or Tier I Team cannot be part of or affiliated with a Tier II Team or Tier II Organization and no person shall be an Officer, Director, Hockey Director, Coach, Coaching Director, Manager, etc. of a Tier I Organization and hold any of the above positions in an Tier II Organization. Nothing herein shall be interpreted to preclude an Independent Contractor who is offering his/her services to the public at large from offering and providing his/her services as a skating or skills instructor to any Tier I or Tier II Team. The Independent Contractor shall not be an employee, full-time instructor or representative of either organization nor participate in any manner, directly or indirectly, with the evaluation of players, recruiting or offering Players the opportunity to play for the Organizations which hire the Independent Contractor.
Responsibility: Each Tier I Organization shall govern, control and be fully responsible for its organization, the actions, inactions and/or infractions of its teams, players, coaches, managers, parents, and personnel. This responsibility shall include debts incurred by or in the name of the Tier I Organization or any of its Tier I Teams
Tier I Season: The Tier I Organization playing season shall commence on September 1st of each year and end on the last day of the Nationals Tournament of each year unless otherwise unanimously approved by the Tier I Committee.
Tier I Team Authorization Procedure:
Application: New Tier I Team Organizations and any existing Tier I Organization that has met all of the Tier I Organization requisites for the previous season ("Existing Tier I Organization) shall complete and deliver to the Tier I Chairperson, no later than March 1st of each year, the WAHA Tier I Application along with an application fee of $100 to WAHA. Each application shall comply fully with the requirements set forth in paragraph c.i - xii below. No new or existing Tier I Organization shall have authority to operate or otherwise participate in Tier I Hockey in any capacity unless it has received its authorization in writing. The Tier I Committee and Tier I Chairperson shall recommend to the WAHA Board of Directors the acceptance or denial of the application. The recommendation shall be in writing and shall clearly state any and all reasons. An appeal by an existing Tier 1 organization from such a denial may be taken to the WAHA Board of Directors at the next meeting thereof, or at a special meeting called for the purpose of hearing the appeal, but only if a reasonable time is afforded the denied Tier 1 organization to prepare its appeal.
Notification: Existing or new Tier I Organizations will be notified in writing of the acceptance or denial of its application by May 1st by the Tier I Chairperson, or his/her designee.
Minimum Requirements: Every authorized new or existing Tier I Organization shall comply with the minimum requirements set forth in this Article, WAHA and USA Hockey By-laws, Policies, Rules and Regulations, which include, but shall not be limited to, the following:
A Tier I Organization must have at least one Pee Wee Youth Team and at least two (2) additional Youth Teams from one of the following divisions: Peewee, Bantam and Midget.
No Tier I Organization may apply for or have more than one Minor and one Major team at any given age level authorized by WAHA. A Minor team must consist of all Minor age players.
No Tier 1 authorization will be given for any Mite teams.
A list of Officers and Directors, the number of Tier I Teams at each level must be submitted in writing to the WAHA Tier 1 Chairman by April 1st. The names of the Coaches for each team with written proof that each Coach has obtained the appropriate Coaching Certification level and has complied with WAHA’s Screening requirements or has the ability to and will obtain those must be submitted by August 1st or by the first game.
Financial information demonstrating that the Tier I Organization is financially solvent and stable with the ability to finance the next season can be requested at any time from the WAHA board. If an organization is forced to stop operations in the middle of the season, each player will be refunded their pro-rata share of fees.
Documentation demonstrating that the Tier I Organization is able to procure sufficient ice to support an appropriate number of home games and practices consistent with the size of its program, its season and this Article.
A Fact Sheet as defined in Paragraph H (7) below.
Written Bylaws, Rules and Regulations.
Current compliance and a statement of future ability, intent and procedures to comply with the USA Hockey and WAHA By-Laws, Policies, Rules and Regulations.
Internal Revenue Service 501 c.3 tax exemption status under the Internal Revenue Code.
All Tier I games played in Wisconsin must be officiated by properly registered USA Hockey and WHOA officials. The one referee/two linesman officiating system is strongly recommended for all Tier 1 games.
All team owners, directors of hockey operations, directors and managers of a Tier 1 Hockey Association must be legal residents of the State of Wisconsin.
Team Selection Process:
Procedures: Each Tier Organization shall institute procedures to select the best Players available. Guidelines for team selection process shall include, but not be limited to the following:
Each Tier I Organization shall hold open tryouts. Tryouts may not be announced or advertised until the Tier I Organization has received written notification of acceptance of its application for the ensuing season by the Tier I Chairperson.
Personal invitations for tryouts are permissible but tryouts must be announced publicly through a general publication or individual mailing to all players at each level, inviting any player who wishes to tryout. This announcement shall take place at least thirty (30) days prior to any tryouts. “Publication” defined as newspapers, mailing lists, etc.
The announcement must contain a minimum of at least the following information:
Organization name
Levels of tryouts and Coaches name, if known
Contacts with phone numbers
Dates, Location, and Times of tryouts
Brief statement about the program
A Tier I invitation
The date contact is permitted by any Tier 1organization’s rep.
Each Tier I Organization shall provide a Fact Sheet that shall be provided to anyone who makes an inquiry.
No player shall be solicited nor shall the possibility of playing Tier I Hockey be discussed with any Player, prior to the conclusion of the USA Hockey National Tournaments but no earlier than April 15th, except for an existing Tier I Player for the particular Tier I Organization for which that Player played during the existing season and then only by that Tier I Organization.
If a new prospective Player initiates contact, the Tier I Organization will advise it cannot discuss the matter and will advise the individual/individuals of the date after which contact is permitted.
Submission to Tier I Chairperson: The signed Player Card and Parental Acknowledgment form must be submitted to the Tier I Chairperson by the dates set out in these Rules or as designated by the Tier I Chairperson.
Rosters: USA Hockey Rosters must be submitted to the Tier I Chairperson by the dates set out in these Rules or designated by the Tier I Chairperson.
Player Commitment: Any player who signs a Fact Sheet is committed to that Tier I Organization and Tier I Team for the ensuing Playing Season and cannot play for another USA Hockey/WAHA registered team, Tier I or otherwise, except Girls, during the same season. Any player who signs a Fact Sheet for any Tier I Organization shall not be recruited by or on behalf of any other Tier I Team or Organization and cannot be removed from that Tier I Organization Team’s roster without the approval of the Tier 1 Committee. Recruiting violation or tampering shall be referred to the Tier 1 Committee for their review and any recommendations to the WAHA Disciplinary Committee.
Roster - Return: USA Hockey rosters for Tier I Teams must be submitted to the WAHA Registrar by August 15th of the ensuing Playing Season for Squirt, Peewee, Bantam and Midget teams.
Commitment Date: No Player shall be required to commit to play on a Tier I Team or sign a roster or pay monies in excess of actual ice time cost prior to August 1st.
Fact Sheet: Tier I Teams and Tier I Organizations shall furnish each Player and his/her parent(s), in writing, before any tryout and prior to signing a Player Card, a Fact Sheet, providing full disclosure about Tier I Hockey by the Tier I Organization indicating all costs, (which shall, at a minimum, fund raising requirements, any additional funds or monies due from the player) number of games and practices, amount of travel, any "rules" of the Tier I Organization/Team, and the actual costs of playing for the Tier I Team and Tier I Organization. Any organization that stops operations in the middle of the season will pay each player a pro-rata share of any monies paid. Parents/Legal Guardians and players need to sign the fact sheet and return to their Tier 1 organization by August 15th.
The WAHA Board of Directors has final approval of all recommendations and decisions by the WAHA Tier 1 Committee.
Limitation: Tier I Organizations must be an entirely separate and distinct entity and operation apart from a Tier II Organization. A Tier I Organization or Tier I Team cannot be part of or affiliated with a Tier II Team or Tier II Organization and no person shall be an Officer, Director, Hockey Director, Coach, Coaching Director, Manager, etc. of a Tier I Organization and hold any of the above positions in an Tier II Organization.
Registrar/Manager perhaps? Board member of on two organizations
old goalie85 wrote:TF34- Does USA hockey tell Wisc. they may only have four t-1 programs?
Old, I don't think so. Affiliates hand out the designation as they see fit. You will find significant variance across the country.
With USA Hockey possibly becoming more involved as things move toward their HPC model, perhaps there have been recommendations for certain affiliates that have asked for help governing. I have no idea if that happens, just speculating.
Task Force 34 wrote:WAHA killed the unclassified status classification. That is the reason the Fire had to fold.
I'm confused. I thought it was the evil Minnesaota Mega associations that forced this down everybody's throat?
The Minnesota Rule: Minnesota hockey will approve an interstate waiver request from one of its resident players provided that the player will be participating in a program classified as Tier 1 by a USA Hockey Affiliate and Minnesota Hockey does not offer such a program.
The Wisconsin Rule Interstate Player Transfer Protocol: The Wisconsin Amateur Hockey Assn., Inc. (WAHA), a duly registered affiliate of USA Hockey, requires that any player who resides in another state and wishes to play hockey with a team in the WAHA program, without changing his/her residence to Wisconsin, must first obtain a properly executed waiver from the player’s resident state.
I believe the argument is that WAHA would not grant Tier 1 status to the Wisconsin Fire. Then they discontinued the “Unclassified” status. Based on the rules of WAHA,, and MNH that’s the end of a program that provided a place for kids from Minnesota a chance to play Tier 1 hockey
Not evil....If your not involved... Why did they have to be shut down? Who were they hurting?
Evil if your established business of many years is terminated because someone some where didn't like what you were doing.
You could make the case that monopolies are evil...
The silence speaks volumes. The Fire was a legitimate Tier 1 candidate that met the criteria WAHA set forth in its Guidebook. WAHA knows this and their only cause for denial was that they are limited to 4 Tier 1 programs, one of which does not even meet their own criteria. The Fire had seniority over other Tier 1 programs in WI and was by far the most competitive overall program.
The silence was because I have a life and don't live on these boards. I went home last night and I only use the computer during the day at my job and when busy at work I don't even come on here then. But you asked what rules they violated. Well violation #1 came last year when they failed to meet this basic requirement:
A Tier I Organization must have at least one Pee Wee Youth Team and at least two (2) additional Youth Teams from one of the following divisions: Peewee, Bantam and Midget.
See last year they fielded only a total of 3 teams and one of those was a 2000 team which is considered a squirt level team. So the failed to have atleast 3 teams at the Pee Wee or above level.
Also, there is a written rule that states:
Not more than four (4) Tier I Organizations and no more than 5% of boys registered skaters in the state of Wisconsin.
With the Caps, The Jr. Admirals and the Jr. Gamblers the state already fields four teams. It would require a by law change just to accept the Fire even they had not failed to follow the above rule and a bylaw change is tough thing to do in general as you well know, but pretty unlikely when someone is not even following the rules.
In violating a rule from two years ago they also violated this rule when they violated the above rule last year (if you are able to follow that, sort of a weird sentence):
Current compliance and a statement of future ability, intent and procedures to comply with the USA Hockey and WAHA By-Laws, Policies, Rules and Regulations.
I know some felt that the team maybe was not in violation but was playing hop scotch with this rule because of a "certain persons" heavy involvement from a management perspective:
All team owners, directors of hockey operations, directors and managers of a Tier 1 Hockey Association must be legal residents of the State of Wisconsin.
Also, remember, a Tier 1 team is also to adhere by the general WAHA rules and regulations not just the Tier 1 regulations that yeti posted. Why do I mention that, well, I don't have evidence or proof for this one, so I might be wrong, but someone told me that one of the previous violations was for this:
Interstate Player Transfer Protocol: The Wisconsin Amateur Hockey Assn., Inc. (WAHA), a duly registered affiliate of USA Hockey, requires that any player who resides in another state and wishes to play hockey with a team in the WAHA program, without changing his/her residence to Wisconsin, must first obtain a properly executed waiver from the player’s resident state.
Conversely, WAHA requires that any Wisconsin resident wishing to play hockey in another state, while remaining a resident of Wisconsin, must first obtain a properly executed waiver from WAHA.
This protocol is consistent with the terms and conditions of the USA Hockey Affiliate Agreement that grants each affiliate the right of “exclusive jurisdiction” within the definition of its geographical boundaries.
Supposedly a few kids were unable to get their assoications to release them but the Fire let them play anyway. That's what I've heard, again this one is believeable rumor but rumor none the less, the others are fact.
You can also argue the Fire are in violation of the general intent of Tier 1 hockey listed here (specifically the underlined portion considering the overhwleming majority of thei rroster is from MN):
General Intent: The general intent of Tier I Hockey in Wisconsin is to provide an opportunity for the best Wisconsin youth players to develop and compete at the highest level of hockey available in North America at their ages by and through USA Hockey and WAHA. Tier I Hockey in Wisconsin is limited to those youth players who have the desire and ability to play at a higher level and wish to continue to develop as players by playing Tier I Hockey. Tier I Hockey is not intended to place pressure on any Youth Player to play Tier I Hockey.
There is also the rule about where you must hold the majority of your games AND the majoirty of your practices. It is tough to police and prove definitively but consdiering the number of practices held at MM it seems reasonable to conclude they were also violating that rule.
Now all I needed to prove was 1 violation, which I did in item one. But I think I've given enough evidence here to prove that it wasn't like WAHA was out to get them. The Fire did not do themselves any favors in the process by not adhering to the rules 100%. When you are dealing with organizations liek WAHA or MN Hockey or USA Hockey and you want them to do something for you, you bet you probably need to follow their rules o the "T" or there likely to not want to do it, epecially when it is even slightly outside of their norm Are we satisfied now?
If the "real" issue was team numbers then they should have killed the program last year - they didn't.
This past season all home games were played at Somerset, all the ice requirements were met. Score sheets were submitted in a timely manner. Coaches were properly registered and had the correct level card. Rosters were correct. If a game was played in MN, the Fire was the guest and did not buy the ice or referees. Why was everything done by the book so carefully, because the Fire knew WAHA was looking for ANYTHING to kill the program and they couldn't find it.
The Fire had teams ready to go at all appropriate levels for the 2011-12 season.
Conversely, Team WI (who is listed as a WAHA Tier 1 program) does not have a PeeWee Team, thus violating the Tier 1 guidelines set forth by WAHA themselves.
Go to the IRS website and you will see the Fire is a legitimate 501(c)3 non-profit entity registered in WI in good standing.
RE: Interstate Player Transfer Protocol - Last Year MN Hockey took this form off their web site. When players asked district directors for a copy the district directors could not even locate the "multi-part" form. You still won't find the form on the MN Hockey website.
I'm with Quasar - it's just sad the program had to be killed. The 97's were excited about the Silver Stick and tough games with Shattuck, the 98's were back together, the 99's had a shot at winning Quebec, the 2000's were a top 5 team last year and the '01's showed a ton of promise.
All because of a bunch of stubborn grown men protecting their nest.
If the "real" issue was team numbers then they should have killed the program last year - they didn't.
This past season all home games were played at Somerset, all the ice requirements were met. Score sheets were submitted in a timely manner. Coaches were properly registered and had the correct level card. Rosters were correct. If a game was played in MN, the Fire was the guest and did not buy the ice or referees. Why was everything done by the book so carefully, because the Fire knew WAHA was looking for ANYTHING to kill the program and they couldn't find it.
The Fire had teams ready to go at all appropriate levels for the 2011-12 season.
Conversely, Team WI (who is listed as a WAHA Tier 1 program) does not have a PeeWee Team, thus violating the Tier 1 guidelines set forth by WAHA themselves.
Go to the IRS website and you will see the Fire is a legitimate 501(c)3 non-profit entity registered in WI in good standing.
RE: Interstate Player Transfer Protocol - Last Year MN Hockey took this form off their web site. When players asked district directors for a copy the district directors could not even locate the "multi-part" form. You still won't find the form on the MN Hockey website.
I'm with Quasar - it's just sad the program had to be killed. The 97's were excited about the Silver Stick and tough games with Shattuck, the 98's were back together, the 99's had a shot at winning Quebec, the 2000's were a top 5 team last year and the '01's showed a ton of promise.
All because of a bunch of stubborn grown men protecting their nest.
Task Force they didn't kill it last year because they still had an "Unclassified" classificatin to offer the Fire, they no longer have that this year, if they did the Fire would still be operating under that classification, without it they'd have to be deemed Tier 1 or nothing at all. Wihtin that context, you asked me to find violations and I did and you are now responding with "well those violations shouldn't matter" responses. How were ice timees met if you have 90 hours of ice scheduled at MM? As for TW, Team Wisconsin is also not looking for Winter season Tier 1 status, they file as a before and after season team, it is one of the very first items under the Tier 1 rules. The fact they are included in the Tier 1 playdowns obvioulsy is some sort of "exception to the rule" type policy that was put into place a decade or so ago and so I don't really agree with you there, as I understand the reasoning behind this exception. But a proper resonse to the Fire having violations to a rule is not "well they aren't following the rules either", that doesn't work anywhere in life. I will also say Team Wisconsin is truly following the General Intent of Tier 1 as listed by WAHA in my above response and that may be that is the biggest issue here, whereas the Fire clearly is not. You failed to discuss that huge point. Please explain how the Fire was providing an opportunity for the best Wisconsin youth players to develop and compete at the highest level of hockey available in North America at their ages by and through USA Hockey and WAHA?
You should also note I am not happy there is no more Fire team. I actually would have loved to see them continue and gain Tier 1 status but they needed to follow the premise and intent of WAHA not their own agenda. I think if they'd have been filling the team with half WI kids instead of just the minimum of 4 per team, they probably wouldn't have had as many issues as they did. But the general intent of WAHA is not to further the success of MN kids in hockey, it's to further the success of WI kids in hockey. They did not do everything by the book in the most glaring of instances right here, they really violated the number 1 premise if you are realsitic about it.
Last edited by JSR on Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The Fire has always had trouble attracting a majority of WI kids. That being said, 3 of the 97's were selected for Team WI this coming year and one made it to the select 14 camp in New York. What's the common theme? The Fire development model. The 4th will be attending Shattuck this year.
That's a pretty good development record for the 97 WI kids.
I hear what you are saying - However the WI kids who are capable of playing at the top level and want to commit to the schedule have not been turned away because of MN kids.
RE: Ice - not sure you got your facts right. The Fire bought the maximum amount of ice available to them at Somerset. They also practiced in River Falls, and the U.
Task Force 34 wrote:The Fire has always had trouble attracting a majority of WI kids. That being said, 3 of the 97's were selected for Team WI this coming year and one made it to the select 14 camp in New York. What's the common theme? The Fire development model. The 4th will be attending Shattuck this year.
That's a pretty good development record for the 97 WI kids.
I hear what you are saying - However the WI kids who are capable of playing at the top level and want to commit to the schedule have not been turned away because of MN kids.
RE: Ice - not sure you got your facts right. The Fire bought the maximum amount of ice available to them at Somerset. They also practiced in River Falls, and the U.
I underlined the problem, you can say the kids from MN were better players and from the aspect of creating the best team period that is a fine way to do it but they weren't from WI so that's the problem. If a so called lesser player from WI was bumped for a better player from MN it is not furthering WI hockey it is furthering MN hockey. I know you understand what I'm saying but its a huge issue. Your statement leaves open the idea that WI kids were turned away but only ones who couldn't compete at the top level..... according to who though? And again, I am disappointed they are gone and i've never disputed that they don't turnout fine hockey players, but other kids from that area up there made TW as well that didn't play for the Fire, maybe they were kids who were turned away because "they couldn't compete at the top level" if you get what I'm saying As for ice time, again doesn't matter that Sommerset may or may not have sold them the max amount of ice they had available, they needed to hold 90% of their practices in WI. I just read in this message board that they had 90 hours of ice scheduled at MM, I have a hard time fathoming that 90 hours is only 10% of their practice ice
Last edited by JSR on Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
As do I. I hope someday the landscape is a little more level for everyone everywhere so that we don't have to have these types of discussions so to speak
for what it's worth there are 162 alumni listed on the Team Wisconsin web site. 2 are from Pierce Cty. 11 from St .Croix Cty.
Not big numbers. There are now a hand full of Wisconsin kids that were on the Fire who have just been flushed. There are no teams any where near here that have the level of talent the Fire provided.
So once more a few are told too bad.. But that's ok because their elders broke some arcane rule dreamed up by someone in WAHA..
Hard to explain to a 13 year old that's been doing everything right.
This is just so senseless..
Edit add on.
I don't know, but I would be willing to bet most if not all 11 kids from Hudson and the 2 from River Falls are also Fire Alumni.
I'm not trying to provoke you.. I'm just saying you don't fully understand the situation here. The Minnesota kids filled out the team so that the Wisconsin kids had a place to play. It worked for a few..
Now it works for no one.. Who benefited from this decision?
I just don't get it..
Last edited by Quasar on Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well I have been having a bit of fun with some of you about how wound up everybody gets about this stuff. So in all honesty, I will share how I really feel:
If you are good, you will be found, regardless of the development model you are following.
If you possess the talent, drive and passion for the game, that above anything else will propel you to loftier heights. Persistence will get you further in academics, sports and life in general than anything else.
You don't need the Fire to succeed in youth hockey. It may make it easier because the program is close to you, but you don't need them. Now, if you lived in Kansas City, and the team folded, I would have a different opinion. But you live in what is arguably the hockey cradle of the US. There are other options.
If the young man's participation in high end hockey is that critical to the family structure, you could always move. People do it all the time. Now, I understand that's not an option for many due to any number of circumstances.
Look at it this way, with the Fire gone, other doors may now open, you just may have never looked for other doors.
As for ice time, again doesn't matter that Sommerset may or may not have sold them the max amount of ice they had available, they needed to hold 90% of their practices in WI. I just read in this message board that they had 90 hours of ice scheduled at MM, I have a hard time fathoming that 90 hours is only 10% of their practice ice 