observer wrote:State your individual unhappy situation and we'll discuss a solution for your particular situation.
Hey Uncle Observer, this is John. Every year I'm stuck playing second fiddle to the coach's kid who's also a goalie. Every time they need a demonstration he puts his kid out and during practice the coach always gives me fewer reps. I've always proven myself to be better, but the coach's son always gets the nod.
I've thought about moving for Hockey but I also love playing football and baseball with the same kids I have for years. I also love my school and my home. This year I was really excited because I made this team called the Fire, but then I was told recently that they had to shut down. I was really looking forward to it because I wouldn't have to move and they had one of the best goalie coaches in the world.
I was wondering if you could give me any advice Uncle Observer?
The "uncle observer" remark puts you in the category of easy to ignore. its not that hard to figure out why some feel ignored, because they are, after careful consideration of where efforts might be most productive.
This is freakin' hilarious. Been at the ice rink all day and then caught a thrilling 1-0 win from a 3rd Division American professional team over Newcastle from the Prem. What'd I miss?
Evidently the solution in parenting is to change your child's environment every time they encounter adversity. Oh, and my 8 dollars to try out for a summer team sponsored by the Walser familiy's car dealership is like a lottery purchase. Make the team and all our problems are solved!
I think Walser should charge eight-hundred and eight dollars. It's the miracle team.
observer wrote:State your individual unhappy situation and we'll discuss a solution for your particular situation.
I live in Hudson Wisconsin I was playing for the Wisconsin fire, but I can’t play there any more. A couple of my friends from Stillwater said they were going to play for the ponies this winter. Can I go play with them?
I would hope you know the answer. Live in Wisconsin, right?
Just as the Stillwater players have a choice to go back to their association, move, join a Tier I team, or quit hockey, I think the Hudson kids have the same options. I'm probably leaving one or two out
Don't feel like reading the Wisconsin rules tonight. Am I correct?
Quasar wrote:I was born before July. When I went to play Bantams there were 16 yr old's on the team. I am only 13... I don't think that's fair. I was on the A peewee team, now I'm on the B team. Everybody say's just wait till next year.. My friend from White Bear Lake say's they need a kid on their team, and the guys on their team aren't all 175 lbs.. Why can't I go play with them?
By the way ..Were waiting............
Okay, so a kid is playing up in age and then complains that the other kids are older than him?
SECoach wrote:The "uncle observer" remark puts you in the category of easy to ignore. its not that hard to figure out why some feel ignored, because they are, after careful consideration of where efforts might be most productive.
Why are you even posting? If you thought the tide wasn't turning you wouldn't be wasting your time........
My whole motivation has been for MN Hockey to wake up and be creative to turn the tide. There are a ton of kids and families that have seen the light through summer Hockey and now see how lacking their winter model is.
Mn Made is starting to take the cream off the top and what have been your ideas to try to curb this? Yes, I've been trying trying to come up with some solutions. All you've been doing is spazzing like a little baby and stomping your feet saing "it can't!" it can't happen!"
Do you not see the demand for an alternative is getting out of hand? They could fill eight Made centers in the metro. And YOU think it's not coming?
Well - blinded - brother.... IT IS! IT IS!
"Ignore" This is coming from a guy that brings nothing. Beside your pouts, you're borderline invisible on here. Give it a rest.
Last edited by MrBoDangles on Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
O-townClown wrote:This is freakin' hilarious. Been at the ice rink all day and then caught a thrilling 1-0 win from a 3rd Division American professional team over Newcastle from the Prem. What'd I miss?
Evidently the solution in parenting is to change your child's environment every time they encounter adversity. Oh, and my 8 dollars to try out for a summer team sponsored by the Walser familiy's car dealership is like a lottery purchase. Make the team and all our problems are solved!
I think Walser should charge eight-hundred and eight dollars. It's the miracle team.
Liar! You were at a gangster rap concert smoking a crack pipe.
observer wrote:State your individual unhappy situation and we'll discuss a solution for your particular situation.
Mr. Observer, Hi, my name is Mike and I play for the B-1 Bantam team at Chisago Lakes. This year we had a great season and I personally had eighty four goals and had ninety six assists. The problem I have is that I wasn't even considered for the advanced 15's. There were four kids that made it from my summer team and even they'll admit that I'm a way better player than them....
SECoach wrote:Ill address the scenerios when I have more time and a full size keyboard. Also, my prior response was not directed at you. There are clearly plans to offer higher levels of play, at appropriate ages, for the top players within minnesota.
This is my last post on this topic, then I will go away, as I don't like to debate with bullies (you know who you are). I think this has been a very interesting discussion.
I have had kids in youth hockey in multiple states in multiple different associations due to the nature of my career. Some of my kids are good at hockey, others skate purely for the recreation and camradarie - I think I have a pretty good handle on where their talent level is. Many years, they make the team they are supposed to make. I don't know anyone on MN or USA hockey. I don't have an opinion on how they are doing their job - other than I think choice is the answer. I have volunteered on boards and I have also sat back quietly in the stands and listened to the cancers in the lobby and stands infect the other parents and harass coaches and the board. I have also seen parents that are very good politically or financially slip their kids on teams where they didn't belong while some other kids are left for dead on the B team without hardly another thought about it. To say this doesn't exist is, quite simply, living with your head in the sand. The kids know it, the parents know it, the board knows it. I get it, that's how life is - in hockey, at work, etc. Am I bitter -- no...but it does insult my sense of fairness when I see it happen to people (not just my kid) and for all of those say you work for ALL kids in hockey, it should insult yours as well.
I hope MN hockey will be part of the answer rather than business men.
Last edited by interestedbystander on Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Quasar wrote:I was born before July. When I went to play Bantams there were 16 yr old's on the team. I am only 13... I don't think that's fair. I was on the A peewee team, now I'm on the B team. Everybody say's just wait till next year.. My friend from White Bear Lake say's they need a kid on their team, and the guys on their team aren't all 175 lbs.. Why can't I go play with them?
By the way ..Were waiting............
Okay, so a kid is playing up in age and then complains that the other kids are older than him?
Easy remedy. Don't play up in age.
Proof that you haven't a clue what Minnesota hockey is all about!
Quasar wrote:I was born before July. When I went to play Bantams there were 16 yr old's on the team. I am only 13... I don't think that's fair. I was on the A peewee team, now I'm on the B team. Everybody say's just wait till next year.. My friend from White Bear Lake say's they need a kid on their team, and the guys on their team aren't all 175 lbs.. Why can't I go play with them?
By the way ..Were waiting............
Okay, so a kid is playing up in age and then complains that the other kids are older than him?
Easy remedy. Don't play up in age.
Proof that you haven't a clue what Minnesota hockey is all about!
Don't be an idiot. If you complain when a kid plays up in age that kids are older the answer is to not have them play up in age. Sorry, it's pretty simple.
O-townClown wrote:
Okay, so a kid is playing up in age and then complains that the other kids are older than him?
Easy remedy. Don't play up in age.
Proof that you haven't a clue what Minnesota hockey is all about!
Don't be an idiot. If you complain when a kid plays up in age that kids are older the answer is to not have them play up in age. Sorry, it's pretty simple.
In Minnesota Kids born before the July cut off have to play as Bantams at age 13. They are forced to play up. They have no choice. Name calling doesn't change that. They cannot leave their association to play down because there is no place for them to go in Minnesota hockey.
You are showing your ignorance.. Talk to one of your Minnesota hockey buddies that your on a first name basis with to have them explain it to you. Then get back to me..
Since nobody caught it, in Mn and USA Hockey the ages for Bantams are 13 and 14 after a designated birth date. For a 16 year old to be on the team would actually mean the 13 year old is either playing midgets,Jr Gold or High school/JV.
MN Bantam (born on or after July 1, 1996) Youth ages 13 & 14. Body checking allowed.
MN 16 & Under (born on or after July 1, 1994) Youth ages 15 & 16. Body checking allowed.
Quasar wrote:In Minnesota Kids born before the July cut off have to play as Bantams at age 13. They are forced to play up. They have no choice. Name calling doesn't change that. They cannot leave their association to play down because there is no place for them to go in Minnesota hockey.
You are showing your ignorance.. Talk to one of your Minnesota hockey buddies that your on a first name basis with to have them explain it to you. Then get back to me..
I am showing my ignorance?
Well, I'll refrain from comment. Minnesota has a two-year window just like USA Hockey. Players born between July 1st of a year and June 30th two years later are lumped together.
It is not possible to have an age disparity of greater than 1 year, 364 days unless the younger player is playing up in age. Impossible.
You not having a clue doesn't change that.
Like I told another poster. Not knowing what you don't know is a problem. When I have something I don't know, I'm aware of it.
Poor poor 13 year old playing with 16 year olds. Deal with it or go back to Pee Wee.
greybeard58 wrote:Since nobody caught it, in Mn and USA Hockey the ages for Bantams are 13 and 14 after a designated birth date. For a 16 year old to be on the team would actually mean the 13 year old is either playing midgets,Jr Gold or High school/JV.
MN Bantam (born on or after July 1, 1996) Youth ages 13 & 14. Body checking allowed.
MN 16 & Under (born on or after July 1, 1994) Youth ages 15 & 16. Body checking allowed.
You're right. I meant 15 ... Still the same.... Not trying to trick anyone ..
greybeard58 wrote:Since nobody caught it, in Mn and USA Hockey the ages for Bantams are 13 and 14 after a designated birth date. For a 16 year old to be on the team would actually mean the 13 year old is either playing midgets,Jr Gold or High school/JV.
MN Bantam (born on or after July 1, 1996) Youth ages 13 & 14. Body checking allowed.
MN 16 & Under (born on or after July 1, 1994) Youth ages 15 & 16. Body checking allowed.
I figured it out on paper, but hey why let a little thing like the facts screw up a good rant.
For the B Bantam player at Chisago Lakes, surprised that if the player was a stud,the parents did not move him up to High school/JV and then he would have been eligible if the H.S. Coach would have nominated him. Remember since you have a good knowledge of District 10 not all A Bantam players get invited either. Allotments are based on the standings with a guaranteed 2 skaters per A Bantam team,it is in their handbook.
greybeard58 wrote:Since nobody caught it, in Mn and USA Hockey the ages for Bantams are 13 and 14 after a designated birth date. For a 16 year old to be on the team would actually mean the 13 year old is either playing midgets,Jr Gold or High school/JV.
MN Bantam (born on or after July 1, 1996) Youth ages 13 & 14. Body checking allowed.
MN 16 & Under (born on or after July 1, 1994) Youth ages 15 & 16. Body checking allowed.
I figured it out on paper, but hey why let a little thing like the facts screw up a good rant.
Good rant or not .. Minnesota Bantams are comprised of 13, 14, and 15 year old kids.... The 16 year typo was not on purpose.
greybeard58 wrote:Since nobody caught it, in Mn and USA Hockey the ages for Bantams are 13 and 14 after a designated birth date. For a 16 year old to be on the team would actually mean the 13 year old is either playing midgets,Jr Gold or High school/JV.
MN Bantam (born on or after July 1, 1996) Youth ages 13 & 14. Body checking allowed.
MN 16 & Under (born on or after July 1, 1994) Youth ages 15 & 16. Body checking allowed.
I figured it out on paper, but hey why let a little thing like the facts screw up a good rant.
Good rant or not .. Minnesota Bantams are comprised of 13, 14, and 15 year old kids.... The 16 year typo was not on purpose.
I know.. I know.. I was just waiting for someone to correct you in spectacular fashion.
No Political Connections wrote:This does though pretty well sum up how it goes. Somebody or a group of somebodies bring up an issue and then start to ask around. For the most part politely at first and then when the frustration sets in perhaps a little less. Finally somebody who understands or claims to understand the issue from the "other side" of the argument steps forward. Feelings get hurt, noses get out of joint and then somebody stomps off with their lower lip quivering swearing vengeance on those meanies......
You (you know who you are) sound shocked when you say that I come on here and think I am right. I do, I am pretty sure that based on my life's experiences that what I see coming is indeed coming or here now. I don't think that we are going to get any answers, I think that what is happening is a few guys are now PMing each other all outraged and etc and meanwhile the issue is NOT going away. It is getting worse.
I am going to go out on a limb here and make a guess about SECoach. First it is pretty obvious he is involved in hockey and given the fact that he is learning, planning and developing in July he is a professional coach at a high level in a larger more successful organization. Probably Bantam A or PeeWee A or came up through them and is now a HS coach someplace. He had kids who came up through the system and it worked for his kids just fine, they went on in hockey someplace, college for sure, possibly juniors. He likes the system because it is working for him and the kids he coaches. He once said that he spends time talking to parents around the rink to see how things are going. Here is my question. When you were out talking to the parents and kids did you have your Bantam A coach jacket on? Who did you talk to that told you life is good? The Bantam A kids and parents? It is for them. Go to a rink across town where nobody knows you. Wear an old pair of blue jeans and a decent shirt and jacket that does not identify you. Go during a game or practice session involving Bantam Bs or something similar. Go hang out with that little group by the glass and listen. Remember, whether those guys are right or wrong they are the ones who are writing checks for their kids to be there. Their kids might be terrible hockey players, they skate badly and have hands of stone but in their parent's eyes they deserve a chance to have a chance. Those are the kids who are going to start to leave. They are that unseen support net for your Bantam A team. That is the team that you pull a kid off of when your 3rd line winger breaks his arm in the corner or gets caught drinking and gets the boot. What happens when he is gone?
My simple question is this: How does MN Hockey intend to protect itself when the 10% or so of kids and parents who are having issues with association hockey decide that something better has came along and leave taking the money, support players and etc? You can't run an association with A players and C players alone. Yes, it used to work. Now with the money involved in youth hockey (you don't think MM is making a profit?) and the parents willingness to spend it the game has change and MN Hockey needs to change with it.
You know I started out with only high skilled players in mind and my belief that the system does not serve them well. I still believe that. However, you sir, have changed my outlook to include all the middle players. Thank you for opening my eyes to the plight of the "other few", or perhaps the other many. Don't be discouraged. Keep up the good fight. It is a fact that there are people waiting to pounce. As evidenced by my error on the Bantam sample. Thanks to the guys like HD41 that inject a little humor when ever they can. It should be civil, but it seems that is too much to ask for. We can all be provoked. The only reason we are all here is because we can't take no for an answer! I guess we will just continue on stating our point of view and expressing our opinions. Me, I am going to ignore my problem children from now on, Or, at least try to. What ever you do stay with us.. you have identified the problem better than any one to date. Of course that's just my opinion.
greybeard58 wrote:For the B Bantam player at Chisago Lakes, surprised that if the player was a stud,the parents did not move him up to High school/JV and then he would have been eligible if the H.S. Coach would have nominated him. Remember since you have a good knowledge of District 10 not all A Bantam players get invited either. Allotments are based on the standings with a guaranteed 2 skaters per A Bantam team,it is in their handbook.
Of course not All A Bantams make these teams..... The problem is that no B players make these teams. Some associations only provide B Hockey
If you took these B players from CL, NB, M, PC and combined them to make an A team would you still not see any of these kids get chosen?
Take some time to scratch your head and you will realize the system is flawed..
Make that seven . . . I sat on the sidelines reading the various exchanges on this thread and must say, SE Coach, you are wrong. NPC has it right and his or her posts demonstrate superior intellectual horsepower over most, if not all, of the posts on this thread. SE Coach, you are hearing, but not listening. Daylight is a wasting and hockey is a changing. Solutions have been offered and those solutions are offered by private enterprises.
Several years ago, before the Bernster sued District 6, its associations and Minnesota Hockey, I took the position on this board that Minnesota Hockey was in danger of violating antitrust law. My advesaries responded by informing me that antitrust laws did not apply to Minnesota Hockey affiliates. Well, we now know that a certain Federal Judge, located in Minnesota, has ruled that MH's affiliates are not exempt from our nation's antitrust laws. We also know that a wise Federal Judge has ruled that Minnesota Hockey and its affiliates do not have the right to make certain choices for our kids. Whether you agree with Judge Tunheim's Orders is irrelevant. He wears a black robe and is impeachable by everyone, except for Congress. In other words, none of us have a say in whether Judge Tunheim is right, unless, of course, you are a judge on the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals or a justice on the United States Supreme Court.
The issue that SE Coach and others are having a hard time coming to grips with is the lay of the land has forever changed as a result of Judge Tunheim's Orders. Private enterprise will provide hockey families with choices. Whether those choices are good or bad for the collective hockey culture in Minnesota remains to be seen. I suspect the increased choices will be good for those who have the resources to pay for their preferred youth hockey method. I also suspect that community based hockey will suffer as a result of the shift from community hockey to private enterprise hockey. SE Coach, as much as you might like to think there are only a few disgruntled people in community hockey associations, the shift from those community based associations to private enterprise hockey seems to tell a different story.
I hope Minnesota Hockey acts quickly to reformulate its model so that it can compete with private enterprise. Like Out-of-Town Clown, I agree the current model has served Minnesota well. However, as someone pointed out, typewriters were a good tool until computers came along. Minnesota Hockey needs to reformulate its model so that it can better serve all of the youth players in this great state of hockey. Parents, coaches and board members need to work together to change the status quo, or people like the Bernster will change it for them. We need to ask ourselves: Are we going to sit back, like Congress, and simply criticize the other side's positions while a foreign power looks forward to the day when it can dictate policy because we can't get our acts together to enact bold changes? Or, are we going to work together to move hockey in Minnesota in a direction that will benefit all kids, which means providing programs that allow families choices?
Sure, those choices will come with different costs and admissions' requirements, but so do most things in life. You choose to drive a Mercedes, while someone else can only afford to own a Hyundai. No one tells the Mercedes driver he can only drive a Hyundai; similarly, no one tells the Hyundai driver that he must stretch financially to drive a Mercedes. The fact is those choices are left to the individual. Choices are part of our culture's fabric. Sometimes we make good choices and sometimes we make bad choices.
Hopefully, when it comes to our kids, we make more good choices than bad choices. But, let's remember, none of us like it when other people tell us what we can and cannot do with our kids. For some reason, we, as parents, believe we are in a better position to make choices for our respective children than a stranger who sits on a board or posts on this board. Likewise, I assure you that I am in a better position to decide what is best for my child than the Bernster. Remember, MH, its affiliates and the private enterprise hockey programs all are service providers. They are no different than your car mechanic, except you entrust your children to hockey providers. Like car mechanics, some hockey coaches and board members are worthy of our trust and some of them are not.
SE Coach, don't chase NPC away by dismissing his experiences and concerns. I, for one, can identify with every one of his concerns. We need NPC and others to engage and people on the other side need to listen and compromise. If we don't, the Bernster will dictate the lay of the land for youth hockey in Minnesota. Don't let that happen simply because you refuse to change while you still have the chance to mold the future.
This is coming from a guy that brings nothing. Beside your pouts, you're borderline invisible on here. Give it a rest.
