2011-2012 Peewee A Rankings

[JSR]

I'd very much like to see how Stevens Point, WI's Pee Wee A team would fair against the top teams in your top 20. I know usually WI association teams can't skate agianst top teams from MN but this team is different. They took their "A" team down to the Nike Bauer tourney (usually only Tier 1 AAA teams play in that) and did really well against top competition. They have easily the best individual player in the Midwest on the team (same player who lead the Brick in points and scoring this past summer.... yep he's a 2001 and he's better than any 1999 I've seen so far and I've seen a bunch between all the different seasons). Those who know my posts know I have no connection to Steven's Point at all not even from anywhere even near there but I've seen them play several times, seen their scores against Tier 1 AAA teams they've played. Just would be really interested to see how they would or would not fair against sopme of MN's best teams. It's a very rare, rare thing for a WI assocation team to be that good, I'd be curious

Would you really like to see it?

You're saying that the kid is better than any 01- 99 in the midwest? Not trying to be sarcastic, but you really need to get out of Wisconsin...... The kid does dominate against most 01's

SKILL wise yes, he is better than anyone I've seen and I get up to MN alot to watch hockey in the spring and summer. Seen the Machine, the Blades, seen plenty of Tier 1 Chicago and MI teams as well. He's the most skilled (skating, stickhandling, ice vision, creativity etc...) kid I've seen within a two year age bracket of his own age, so from 2003 through 1999 I haven't seen anyone as good as he is. As aimforthefivehole insinuated because he is younger and playing up you can body him off the puck right now to some degree just because of pure size but he is so shifty and so smart he still puts up points. That being said his '01 Flyers team did not offer the support of players around him that the Machine offers yet he still lead the Caribou in points and goals. In the Nike Bauer all the teams he was playing against were Tier 1 1999 birth year teams and he was best individual player on the ice in every game and remember hsi is "just" an association team from middle WI, it's not a Tier 1 team recruiting from all over the place. So yes, I actually would like to see the them play some top association teams from MN, I like this age of hockey, and like watching it when it's being played the right way by high end players, what's wrong with that?

[observer]

I would guess they would play in a Minnesota tournament or two. If not a tournament I would think they will play some Minnesota opponents.

[HatTrick123]

Heard south has a guy with a 6'10" wing span.

[buttend]

Woodbury and Lakeville North should deserve consideration too in top 20s.

That would mean Lakevile North would have to beat a top 20 team. Who have they beaten to earn a top 20 rank?

So far they have wins over Northfield and Cottage Grove. Thats not going to get you in the top 30

Woodbury is in the same boat. They have not beaten any team in the top 20.... They lost to Prior Lake by 1?? Was it a good effort by Woodbury or a poor outing by Prior Lake?

Wins over Chaska by 1 South St Paul and Rochester Red by 1... Not hardly enough to wow anybody yet.

[Rank12]

November 22nd Rankings

Well it's week 3 of our rankings and we have seen around 50 Peewee A games so far. We are starting to see some teams seperate themselves from the rest and others still trying to get going. We are looking forward to all the Thanksgiving Tournaments, we will be at Burnsville, Hopkins and Eden Prairie.

1. Prior Lake

2. Lakeville South
3. Stillwater
4. Elk River
5. Osseo/Maple Grove
6. Edina
7. Eden Prairie
8. Hermantown
9. Farmington
10. Highland Central
11. STMA
12. Minnetonka
13. Centennial
14. White Bear Lake
15. St. Cloud
16. Waconia
17. Mounds View
18. Jefferson
19. Wayzata Blue
20. Blaine

Teams added: Mounds View, Highland Central
Teams Out: Wayzata Gold, Eastview

[Irish]

Woodbury and Lakeville North should deserve consideration too in top 20s.

Woodbury should be in 15-20 range - haven't seen North play.

[Snoopdog007]

I dont think that Stillwater or Elk River should be in the top 5. I'm pretty sure (not positive) they don't have any Fire or Machine players so they are obviously over-rated EP Tournament should expose the weaker teams and highlight the title contenders.

[Mnhockeys]

I dont think that Stillwater or Elk River should be in the top 5. I'm pretty sure (not positive) they don't have any Fire or Machine players so they are obviously over-rated EP Tournament should expose the weaker teams and highlight the title contenders.

Any stat on the number of Fire and/or Machine players on the top teams? Thought Edina was supposed to be loaded with them, or that was wrong?

[HatTrick123]

Woodbury and Lakeville North should deserve consideration too in top 20s.

Woodbury should be in 15-20 range - haven't seen North play.

Woodbury got beat by Lakeville North last night 2-1.

[snyper12]

November 22nd Rankings

Well it's week 3 of our rankings and we have seen around 50 Peewee A games so far. We are starting to see some teams seperate themselves from the rest and others still trying to get going. We are looking forward to all the Thanksgiving Tournaments, we will be at Burnsville, Hopkins and Eden Prairie.

1. Prior Lake

2. Lakeville South
3. Stillwater
4. Elk River
5. Osseo/Maple Grove
6. Edina
7. Eden Prairie
8. Hermantown
9. Farmington
10. Highland Central
11. STMA
12. Minnetonka
13. Centennial
14. White Bear Lake
15. St. Cloud
16. Waconia
17. Mounds View
18. Jefferson
19. Wayzata Blue
20. Blaine

Teams added: Mounds View, Highland Central
Teams Out: Wayzata Gold, Eastview

Would have to give South my #1.

(Any team giving up 7 goals is not going to last up there no matter how great the offense may be.) Suspect Farm will end up a little lower to.

Thanks for the list.

[farmington14]

Would have to give South my #1.

(Any team giving up 7 goals is not going to last up there no matter how great the offense may be.) Suspect Farm will end up a little lower to.

Thanks for the list.

Farmington lost to South 4 - 1 last night (play was pretty even except for a Farm breakdown in which South scored 3 goals in 45 seconds). Farmington has played both PL & South now, both are very good teams, I'd have to give the edge to PL at this point as I think they are a little deeper.

[helightsthelamp]

I dont think that Stillwater or Elk River should be in the top 5. I'm pretty sure (not positive) they don't have any Fire or Machine players so they are obviously over-rated EP Tournament should expose the weaker teams and highlight the title contenders.

So who do you think sould be there instead of them...no fire kids...how are the fire kids doing for Edina? looks like a very dominant team to me with all the fire/machine kids on there...NOT

[forreal]

Seems like there are about 5 sets of ratings out there. Based upon what I've seen, let's play hockey and Myhockeyrankings.com seem the most accurate. The second one uses some math equation to remove bias. Top teams seem the same on most.

[Snoopdog007]

I dont think that Stillwater or Elk River should be in the top 5. I'm pretty sure (not positive) they don't have any Fire or Machine players so they are obviously over-rated EP Tournament should expose the weaker teams and highlight the title contenders.

So who do you think sould be there instead of them...no fire kids...how are the fire kids doing for Edina? looks like a very dominant team to me with all the fire/machine kids on there...NOT

I think you may have missed my sarcasm He-lights. The point is, there are very solid players out there that do other things besides playing Machine or Fire hockey. This is not to take away from their talent but there are many great hockey players across this great state. If several of them end up on the same team for several years you can develop some serious chemistry.

[Mnhockeys]

Seems like there are about 5 sets of ratings out there. Based upon what I've seen, let's play hockey and Myhockeyrankings.com seem the most accurate. The second one uses some math equation to remove bias. Top teams seem the same on most.

Myhockeyrankings.com starts off with 10 or something like it for everyone. After each game you play your point will move up or down based on your opponent's ranking and the score. If the score is +2, and your opponent rank is -1 than you, your point from this game will +1. Think there is 6 goal difference allowed.

It is probably the best method out there!

[Monsterbuck1]

Where is Pioneer and his computer rankings? Is it still too early in the season for this?

[YouthHockeyHub]

November 22nd Rankings

Well it's week 3 of our rankings and we have seen around 50 Peewee A games so far. We are starting to see some teams seperate themselves from the rest and others still trying to get going. We are looking forward to all the Thanksgiving Tournaments, we will be at Burnsville, Hopkins and Eden Prairie.

1. Prior Lake

2. Lakeville South
3. Stillwater
4. Elk River
5. Osseo/Maple Grove
6. Edina
7. Eden Prairie
8. Hermantown
9. Farmington
10. Highland Central
11. STMA
12. Minnetonka
13. Centennial
14. White Bear Lake
15. St. Cloud
16. Waconia
17. Mounds View
18. Jefferson
19. Wayzata Blue
20. Blaine

Teams added: Mounds View, Highland Central
Teams Out: Wayzata Gold, Eastview

Can't wait to see how your rankings come out this week vs. Youth Hockey Hub's. http://youthhockeyhub.com/youth-hockeyrankings/

1-4 are easy (1. Prior Lake 2. Lakeville South 3. Elk River 4. Eden Prairie).

After that it gets tricky: Hermantown, Stillwater, OMG, and Edina as 5-8.

Then 9-14 is anyone's guess: Jefferson (beat Cent and has won 6 straight), Minnetonka (finished 3rd in EP)....Highland Central (only loss is to Hermantown), Centennial, and Farmington can make a case.

Blaine can make a case after winning the B'ville tourney, too.

For a guy this in tune...you should become a ranker on our site:

http://youthhockeyhub.com/youth-hockeyr ... t-ranking/

Best Regards,

Tony Scott
Editor Youth Hockey Hub

[Rank12]

November 29th Rankings

It was a wild weekend of peewee hockey. In 3 Thanksgiving Tournaments we attended in Hopkins, Eden Prairie and Burnsville there was some exciting games. In Burnsville we saw a double ot shootout win by Blaine over Eastview to reach the tourney final and beat host Burnsville 8-0, In Eden Prairie we saw the states #1 team Prior Lake survive a third period push by #2 Lakeville South in pool play and take a 2-1 win and than finish off the tournament by scoring a last minute goal to get past host Eden Prairie to win Championship, In Hopkins we saw Jefferson take the title over Centennial with a 3-0 win.

We our the only rankings that actually goes and sees these games in person. PM us a game and we will be there.

Here are our rankings for week 4

1. Prior Lake

2. Lakeville South
3. Eden Praire
4. Elk River
5. Osseo/Maple Grove
6. Hermantown
7. Minnetonka
8. Stillwater
9. Highland Central
10. Edina
11. STMA
12. Jefferson
13. Blaine
14. Farmington
15. Centennial
16. White Bear Lake
17. St. Cloud
18. Waconia
19. Lakeville North
20. Woodbury

New Teams: Woodbury, Lakeville North
Teams Out: Wayzata Blue, Mounds View

Thanksgiving Tournament Champions:

Eden Prairie - Prior Lake
Burnsville - Blaine
Hopkins - Jefferson

[hockeydad65]

November 29th Rankings

It was a wild weekend of peewee hockey. In 3 Thanksgiving Tournaments we attended in Hopkins, Eden Prairie and Burnsville there was some exciting games. In Burnsville we saw a double ot shootout win by Blaine over Eastview to reach the tourney final and beat host Burnsville 8-0, In Eden Prairie we saw the states #1 team Prior Lake survive a third period push by #2 Lakeville South in pool play and take a 2-1 win and than finish off the tournament by scoring a last minute goal to get past host Eden Prairie to win Championship, In Hopkins we saw Jefferson take the title over Centennial with a 3-0 win.

We our the only rankings that actually goes and sees these games in person. PM us a game and we will be there.

Here are our rankings for week 4

1. Prior Lake

2. Lakeville South
3. Eden Praire
4. Elk River
5. Osseo/Maple Grove
6. Hermantown
7. Minnetonka
8. Stillwater
9. Highland Central
10. Edina
11. STMA
12. Jefferson
13. Blaine
14. Farmington
15. Centennial
16. White Bear Lake
17. St. Cloud
18. Waconia
19. Lakeville North
20. Woodbury

New Teams: Woodbury, Lakeville North
Teams Out: Wayzata Blue, Mounds View

Thanksgiving Tournament Champions:

Eden Prairie - Prior Lake
Burnsville - Blaine
Hopkins - Jefferson

Thankyou for the rankings. I agree with almost all of this. Appears LVS and PL will be batteling for the #1 spot all year long. Although I did get to catch part of the ER and Minnetonka game. ER either isn't living up to their potential or Minnetonka has improved ALOT.

[Monsterbuck1]

November 29th Rankings

It was a wild weekend of peewee hockey. In 3 Thanksgiving Tournaments we attended in Hopkins, Eden Prairie and Burnsville there was some exciting games. In Burnsville we saw a double ot shootout win by Blaine over Eastview to reach the tourney final and beat host Burnsville 8-0, In Eden Prairie we saw the states #1 team Prior Lake survive a third period push by #2 Lakeville South in pool play and take a 2-1 win and than finish off the tournament by scoring a last minute goal to get past host Eden Prairie to win Championship, In Hopkins we saw Jefferson take the title over Centennial with a 3-0 win.

We our the only rankings that actually goes and sees these games in person. PM us a game and we will be there.

Here are our rankings for week 4

1. Prior Lake

2. Lakeville South
3. Eden Praire
4. Elk River
5. Osseo/Maple Grove
6. Hermantown
7. Minnetonka
8. Stillwater
9. Highland Central
10. Edina
11. STMA
12. Jefferson
13. Blaine
14. Farmington
15. Centennial
16. White Bear Lake
17. St. Cloud
18. Waconia
19. Lakeville North
20. Woodbury

New Teams: Woodbury, Lakeville North
Teams Out: Wayzata Blue, Mounds View

Thanksgiving Tournament Champions:

Eden Prairie - Prior Lake
Burnsville - Blaine
Hopkins - Jefferson

Thankyou for the rankings. I agree with almost all of this. Appears LVS and PL will be batteling for the #1 spot all year long. Although I did get to catch part of the ER and Minnetonka game. ER either isn't living up to their potential or Minnetonka has improved ALOT.

Here are the mathematical rankings as a comparison:

1 Lakeville South A 13-2-1 16.55 4.31 12.24
2 Prior Lake Savage Lakers A 16-0-0 16.06 3.93 12.13
3 Elk River Elks A 8-3-1 14.85 2.33 12.52
4 Stillwater Ponies A 11-2-2 14.66 2.53 12.13
5 Eden Prairie Eagles A 8-5-1 14.49 1.85 12.64
6 Osseo Maple Grove A 8-3-2 14.26 2.15 12.11
7 Hermantown Hawks A 10-0-0 13.99 4.60 9.39
8 Edina Hornets A 9-7-0 13.62 0.31 13.31
9 Highland Central Capitals A 7-1-0 13.38 2.87 10.51
10 Minnetonka Skippers A 10-6-0 13.19 0.68 12.51
11 Centennial Cougars A 5-4-1 12.66 0.50 12.16
12 White Bear Lake Bears A 7-7-1 12.22 0.40 11.82
13 Farmington Tigers A 10-6-2 12.14 0.55 11.59
14 St Michael-Albertville Knights A 6-5-3 11.95 0.50 11.45
15 Wayzata Trojans (Blue) A 4-5-5 11.95 0.07 11.88
16 Bloomington Jefferson Jaguars A 9-3-2 11.54 1.50 10.04
17 Mounds View Mustangs A 7-4-2 11.36 1.30 10.06
18 Irondale Knights A 6-1-1 11.19 1.12 10.07
19 Duluth East A 6-4-0 11.09 0.90 10.19
20 Rochester (Red) A 0-5-3 11.05 -2.75 13.80

[PuckSense10]

November 29th Rankings

It was a wild weekend of peewee hockey. In 3 Thanksgiving Tournaments we attended in Hopkins, Eden Prairie and Burnsville there was some exciting games. In Burnsville we saw a double ot shootout win by Blaine over Eastview to reach the tourney final and beat host Burnsville 8-0, In Eden Prairie we saw the states #1 team Prior Lake survive a third period push by #2 Lakeville South in pool play and take a 2-1 win and than finish off the tournament by scoring a last minute goal to get past host Eden Prairie to win Championship, In Hopkins we saw Jefferson take the title over Centennial with a 3-0 win.

We our the only rankings that actually goes and sees these games in person. PM us a game and we will be there.

Here are our rankings for week 4

1. Prior Lake

2. Lakeville South
3. Eden Praire
4. Elk River
5. Osseo/Maple Grove
6. Hermantown
7. Minnetonka
8. Stillwater
9. Highland Central
10. Edina
11. STMA
12. Jefferson
13. Blaine
14. Farmington
15. Centennial
16. White Bear Lake
17. St. Cloud
18. Waconia
19. Lakeville North
20. Woodbury

New Teams: Woodbury, Lakeville North
Teams Out: Wayzata Blue, Mounds View

Thanksgiving Tournament Champions:

Eden Prairie - Prior Lake
Burnsville - Blaine
Hopkins - Jefferson

Thankyou for the rankings. I agree with almost all of this. Appears LVS and PL will be batteling for the #1 spot all year long. Although I did get to catch part of the ER and Minnetonka game. ER either isn't living up to their potential or Minnetonka has improved ALOT.

Here are the mathematical rankings as a comparison:

1 Lakeville South A 13-2-1 16.55 4.31 12.24
2 Prior Lake Savage Lakers A 16-0-0 16.06 3.93 12.13
3 Elk River Elks A 8-3-1 14.85 2.33 12.52
4 Stillwater Ponies A 11-2-2 14.66 2.53 12.13
5 Eden Prairie Eagles A 8-5-1 14.49 1.85 12.64
6 Osseo Maple Grove A 8-3-2 14.26 2.15 12.11
7 Hermantown Hawks A 10-0-0 13.99 4.60 9.39
8 Edina Hornets A 9-7-0 13.62 0.31 13.31
9 Highland Central Capitals A 7-1-0 13.38 2.87 10.51
10 Minnetonka Skippers A 10-6-0 13.19 0.68 12.51
11 Centennial Cougars A 5-4-1 12.66 0.50 12.16
12 White Bear Lake Bears A 7-7-1 12.22 0.40 11.82
13 Farmington Tigers A 10-6-2 12.14 0.55 11.59
14 St Michael-Albertville Knights A 6-5-3 11.95 0.50 11.45
15 Wayzata Trojans (Blue) A 4-5-5 11.95 0.07 11.88
16 Bloomington Jefferson Jaguars A 9-3-2 11.54 1.50 10.04
17 Mounds View Mustangs A 7-4-2 11.36 1.30 10.06
18 Irondale Knights A 6-1-1 11.19 1.12 10.07
19 Duluth East A 6-4-0 11.09 0.90 10.19
20 Rochester (Red) A 0-5-3 11.05 -2.75 13.80

Your mathematical rankings are good, however you need to add a qualitative measurement - called something like "Head-to-Head": In your Peewee A rankings PLS defeated LVS therefore PLS earned to right to be #1 not #2 and LVS earnsed them right to be #2 due losing to PLS in Head-to-Head competition. Another factor is "similiar opponents" PLS has not lost or tied -- LVS Tied Rochester and PLS defeated Rochester 8-0. I have proved beyound any doubt that your Ranking Engine needs to be adjusted and improved upon.

[edgeless2]

Here are the mathematical rankings as a comparison:

1 Lakeville South A 13-2-1 16.55 4.31 12.24
2 Prior Lake Savage Lakers A 16-0-0 16.06 3.93 12.13
3 Elk River Elks A 8-3-1 14.85 2.33 12.52
4 Stillwater Ponies A 11-2-2 14.66 2.53 12.13
5 Eden Prairie Eagles A 8-5-1 14.49 1.85 12.64
6 Osseo Maple Grove A 8-3-2 14.26 2.15 12.11
7 Hermantown Hawks A 10-0-0 13.99 4.60 9.39
8 Edina Hornets A 9-7-0 13.62 0.31 13.31
9 Highland Central Capitals A 7-1-0 13.38 2.87 10.51
10 Minnetonka Skippers A 10-6-0 13.19 0.68 12.51
11 Centennial Cougars A 5-4-1 12.66 0.50 12.16
12 White Bear Lake Bears A 7-7-1 12.22 0.40 11.82
13 Farmington Tigers A 10-6-2 12.14 0.55 11.59
14 St Michael-Albertville Knights A 6-5-3 11.95 0.50 11.45
15 Wayzata Trojans (Blue) A 4-5-5 11.95 0.07 11.88
16 Bloomington Jefferson Jaguars A 9-3-2 11.54 1.50 10.04
17 Mounds View Mustangs A 7-4-2 11.36 1.30 10.06
18 Irondale Knights A 6-1-1 11.19 1.12 10.07
19 Duluth East A 6-4-0 11.09 0.90 10.19
20 Rochester (Red) A 0-5-3 11.05 -2.75 13.80[/quote]


Your mathematical rankings are good, however you need to add a qualitative measurement - called something like "Head-to-Head": In your Peewee A rankings PLS defeated LVS therefore PLS earned to right to be #1 not #2 and LVS earnsed them right to be #2 due losing to PLS in Head-to-Head competition. Another factor is "similiar opponents" PLS has not lost or tied -- LVS Tied Rochester and PLS defeated Rochester 8-0. I have proved beyound any doubt that your Ranking Engine needs to be adjusted and improved upon.[/quote]


Wow you've really figured it out and on your first post! Bravo. Next up contact the BCS and let em know what they are doing wrong. Wait no, how about you come up with a better ranking engine that will make all of us youth hockey rubes stand up and salute your genius.

[elliott70]

I think pucksense is pointing out something that is obvious.
Prior Lake is better than LS.

Rankings are all about which team is better.
The best indicator is when one team beats another team.
Especially in the recent past.

Your equation needs to be tweaked to be considered a good ranking system. Right not it is just a calculation.

As both Lee and Mitch point out on their systems, the early season calcualtions are not very good. Your system has no District 12 or 16 teams 'ranked' anywhere. Because they have no numbers. But East Grand Forks, Roseau, Bemidji, Warroad, Grand Rapids may very well have a top 20 to 25 team.

I look at rankings to tell me who will win in this weekends match-ups. History helps develop that, but historical numbers do not tell everything in sports.

But none the less, nice job.

[elliott70]

And don't be so touchy.

[JSR]

I think pucksense is pointing out something that is obvious.
Prior Lake is better than LS.

Rankings are all about which team is better.
The best indicator is when one team beats another team.
Especially in the recent past.

Your equation needs to be tweaked to be considered a good ranking system. Right not it is just a calculation.

As both Lee and Mitch point out on their systems, the early season calcualtions are not very good. Your system has no District 12 or 16 teams 'ranked' anywhere. Because they have no numbers. But East Grand Forks, Roseau, Bemidji, Warroad, Grand Rapids may very well have a top 20 to 25 team.

I look at rankings to tell me who will win in this weekends match-ups. History helps develop that, but historical numbers do not tell everything in sports.

But none the less, nice job.

I'll disagree with you somewhat in that a ranking system is not necessarily built to predict the future or who will win this weekends games. Further, ONE singular head to head match up is not, atleast not to me, an indicator that one team is definitively better than the other team. I'd say a minimum of 3 games, (one home, one away and one neutral) would be needed before I could say with any certainty one team is better than the other and even then if they were to both win at home and tie on the neutral rink it'd still be up for debate. The beauty of mathematical ranking systems is that they are based purely on what has happened NOT what MIGHT happen in the future AND they also seem to get better with each passing week given more games to enter data with. Much like the RPI in basketball some mathematical ranking systems are practically worthless until almost 75% of the season is over but that does not mean those systems aren't still going to give you their current rankings and data even in the early season. You just need to know what type of system youa re dealing with and then just acknowledge and know that some systems are better indicators or true rank later in the season as opposed to earlier. This system seems liek one that adjusts itself accordingly the further into the season you get and with more data the more accurate it becomes. I'd bet it's spot on by the end of the season but probably ddoes have early season hiccups every year.

Nothing is perfect not even the so called head to head matchup test, or even common opponent test. I mean what about when Team A beats Team B three times by scores of 6-4, 10-6 and 7-4, Team A loses to Team C three times by scores of 2-1, 4-3, and 3-2, and Team B beats Team C by scores of 7-0, 5-1, and 6-3. Tell me, which team is the "Best team" in this scenario??? (FYI, this is a real thing that happened last year down in our area).