Your thoughts... ???
A recent Bantam A game had 29 penalties in it. Fifteen of which were on one team and 14 on the other. I full well realize we know there are times we question the refs abilities. That is fine and dandy.
This particular game was intense, no question. And some penalties that were called were somewhat soft... But, at what point in your opinion, does the coach become responsible?
BTW I have first hand writing cramps from the scoresheet....
Please realize I am not placing blame on any parties involved, just asking the opinion of a larger group of coaches and parents here... Merely for discussion.
skills_coach1 wrote:Your thoughts... ???
A recent Bantam A game had 29 penalties in it. Fifteen of which were on one team and 14 on the other. I full well realize we know there are times we question the refs abilities. That is fine and dandy.
This particular game was intense, no question. And some penalties that were called were somewhat soft... But, at what point in your opinion, does the coach become responsible?
BTW I have first hand writing cramps from the scoresheet....
Please realize I am not placing blame on any parties involved, just asking the opinion of a larger group of coaches and parents here... Merely for discussion.
Tougn one- depends on teams history. Was this an aberration or is it a pattern with said squad? Everyone has off days (refs/coaches/kids). Did one bad hit set kids off or was ref just calling it tough & by the book? If the calls were 15-14 sounds like both teams were off. I would say if same team has same problems over & over then you can look at coach, once every 10-20 games...it happens.
You will never beat a superior opponent shorthanded.
The goal has to be zero penalties and put a whooping on your less disciplined opponent. Or, a win against a stronger opponent. Either is a lot of fun.
Because you will never beat a stronger opponent shorthanded the coach needs to fix the team discipline problem. Early in the season is best or it will go on and on left unchecked. The most effective deterrent for a Bantam team is ice time. Frankly, it’s the only thing that works. Get a penalty, sit a shift. Get another and sit a period. All the coach. Let the players and parents fuss and then tell them, easy, stay out of the box. Would you rather play or sit? After two weeks it's fixed.
Big picture. This reflects poorly on the team and your association.
Experienced coaches should be able to tell early in the game if their opponent is an undisciplined team that takes a lot of selfish penalties.
Keep your bench quiet, tell your guys to stand their ground only after the whistle and enjoy the powerplays.
This will probably be harder for coaches in the future now that kids don't start checking until they're fourteen. Turning the other cheek is t ough for junior high kids, even for
I reffed a B1 bantam team last nightthat plays like a mini Duluth East team.
They are a smart, fast and talented team that moves the puck and doesn't take themselves out of the play by having to finish their checks three seconds after the puck is gone.
It was a great game to watch.
skills_coach1 wrote:Your thoughts... ???
A recent Bantam A game had 29 penalties in it. Fifteen of which were on one team and 14 on the other. I full well realize we know there are times we question the refs abilities. That is fine and dandy.
This particular game was intense, no question. And some penalties that were called were somewhat soft... But, at what point in your opinion, does the coach become responsible?
BTW I have first hand writing cramps from the scoresheet....
Please realize I am not placing blame on any parties involved, just asking the opinion of a larger group of coaches and parents here... Merely for discussion.
how many players made it to the 5 penalty thresold? The coach gets a game misconduct when they reach 15 as well-that might be a wake up call.
I guess I would like to come at this from another angle. I understand refs try to do their best to make sure a game doesn't get out of control...but really ref? 29 penalties?
I would be curious to hear more about the ref himself. A ref is in a potision of power on the ice and some relish in that fact, but as players, coaches and even parents we are chastised for even questioning anything a ref does. I for one don't think they are beyond criticism. I don't advocate for ripping a ref from the stands or even the bench but I do think the district deserves an explanation as to why the ref thought it necessary to call 29 penalties. But I know how the story goes, there are so few refs to go around, it's a thankless job and the district is just happy they have a guy willing to drive to a cold arena each and every night to ref. So usually the argument I am making falls on deaf ears. I get it.
However, 29 penalties seems excessive to me. That's approx 10 penalties called each period which is practically unheard of. Not being there to witness it, I would be curious to hear from the eye witnesses if this was indeed two teams playing very cheaply and wildly out of control or if it was a case of ref who likes nothing more that to see his own hand in the air. The original poster eluded to the latter but didn't expand on his thoughts.
JoltDelivered wrote:I guess I would like to come at this from another angle. I understand refs try to do their best to make sure a game doesn't get out of control...but really ref? 29 penalties?
I would be curious to hear more about the ref himself. A ref is in a potision of power on the ice and some relish in that fact, but as players, coaches and even parents we are chastised for even questioning anything a ref does. I for one don't think they are beyond criticism. I don't advocate for ripping a ref from the stands or even the bench but I do think the district deserves an explanation as to why the ref thought it necessary to call 29 penalties. But I know how the story goes, there are so few refs to go around, it's a thankless job and the district is just happy they have a guy willing to drive to a cold arena each and every night to ref. So usually the argument I am making falls on deaf ears. I get it.
However, 29 penalties seems excessive to me. That's approx 10 penalties called each period which is practically unheard of. Not being there to witness it, I would be curious to hear from the eye witnesses if this was indeed two teams playing very cheaply and wildly out of control or if it was a case of ref who likes nothing more that to see his own hand in the air. The original poster eluded to the latter but didn't expand on his thoughts.
One thing to consider is the double penalties--checking from behind is 2 penalties(10 & 2). I was recently at a bantam game that had 27 penalties. There were 2 fights that resulted in 4, 5 min fighting & 6 Game misconducts(2 for 3rd man in), so the total number can become aliitle skewed.
I guess I would like to come at this from another angle. I understand refs try to do their best to make sure a game doesn't get out of control...but really ref? 29 penalties?
I would be curious to hear more about the ref himself. A ref is in a potision of power on the ice and some relish in that fact, but as players, coaches and even parents we are chastised for even questioning anything a ref does. I for one don't think they are beyond criticism. I don't advocate for ripping a ref from the stands or even the bench but I do think the district deserves an explanation as to why the ref thought it necessary to call 29 penalties. But I know how the story goes, there are so few refs to go around, it's a thankless job and the district is just happy they have a guy willing to drive to a cold arena each and every night to ref. So usually the argument I am making falls on deaf ears. I get it.
However, 29 penalties seems excessive to me. That's approx 10 penalties called each period which is practically unheard of. Not being there to witness it, I would be curious to hear from the eye witnesses if this was indeed two teams playing very cheaply and wildly out of control or if it was a case of ref who likes nothing more that to see his own hand in the air. The original poster eluded to the latter but didn't expand on his thoughts.
It's nuts but, I always remind the players, the ref can do whatever he wants. So, back to my above stated rule, NO PENALTIES. It's a skill game and good teams will dice undisciplined ones.
Yes there was at least one2 and 10 call and a major with a game as well. Those do get reported separately, as was mentioned. Like I said, just looking for discussion here and thanks to all that have provided exactly that... Not D6 BTW....
The reffing was I guess "OK", they did assign a penalty to a kid that was not the actual person that did an infraction..... and a couple penalties where a kid went down from a hit... The ref did not raise his hand and then when the kid didn't get up after a few seconds passed... He did.. But, we are all human, or at least that's the way I looked at it.. Is it worth pushing the issue and arguing with a ref about? I don't know... If I was behind the bench would I have been steamed... Sure... I just feel like if your team is in a spot like that you need to pull the reigns back.. You play the game the way the refs are calling the game that day... We don't have to like it, but, that is the way the system works...
To expect kids to get zero penalties is a little unrealistic in my mind. Even the kids that rarely get a penality is bound to get one sooner or later. There is a difference between a "good" penality and a "bad/lazy/stupid" penality.
Now if your team is having 15 penalities called on you game after game you have a huge problem. If it is once per year then nothing to lose sleep over. But the players and coaches in the Bantam A level need to know how to adjust to the ref. If everytime you check someone you are getting a penality guess what....Don't check. Simply need to adjust to the ref every game and see what he is calling. Then you should not get 15 panalties called on you.
skills_coach1 wrote:Your thoughts... ???
A recent Bantam A game had 29 penalties in it. Fifteen of which were on one team and 14 on the other. I full well realize we know there are times we question the refs abilities. That is fine and dandy.
This particular game was intense, no question. And some penalties that were called were somewhat soft... But, at what point in your opinion, does the coach become responsible?
BTW I have first hand writing cramps from the scoresheet....
Please realize I am not placing blame on any parties involved, just asking the opinion of a larger group of coaches and parents here... Merely for discussion.
without reading the other posts.
Always.
Don't go spoutin off now.
If it is a GOOD coach, it will always be his fault...just ask him. If it is a bad coach.....obviously he doesn't have control of his team.....
This is a very tough topic to discuss as there were several questions that went un answered from the original poster. My question is which coach are you targeting? The coach with 15 or the one with 14 penalties? The main question is does this happen on a regular basis with said teams? You have seemed to have deflect that question with you're for disscusion only statement. Everyone that has resonded has pretty much asked is this a normal occurence or was it one of those games where you had a ref that seems to like the sound of his own whistle? If you could answer the question that has been asked it would be appreciated. Otherwise it's hard to have a discusion on the topic. Just my opinion.
NOPOLITICS wrote:This is a very tough topic to discuss as there were several questions that went un answered from the original poster. My question is which coach are you targeting? The coach with 15 or the one with 14 penalties? The main question is does this happen on a regular basis with said teams? You have seemed to have deflect that question with you're for disscusion only statement. Everyone that has resonded has pretty much asked is this a normal occurence or was it one of those games where you had a ref that seems to like the sound of his own whistle? If you could answer the question that has been asked it would be appreciated. Otherwise it's hard to have a discusion on the topic. Just my opinion.
Moorhead typically has between 2-4 penalties a game. I watched the game and both teams played hard and the refs were calling it more like a squirt game and neither team adjusted for it.
This is a tough one. . . if you have a very physical game, Bantams can get out of control quickly. In that type of game, there are often standoffs and pushing and shoving at every frozen puck. If you let the "face wash special" go without calls, it very likely will evidence itself quickly during the play with other infractions; however, if you start calling the off setting penalties, you fill up the score sheet. Either way, you're a bad ref (from behind the bench).
Personally, I will talk them away for the first one or two of the scrums unless the hands come up to the heads and necks where injuries can occur. After that, if the coach hasn't taken control of this behavior, I don't think I have a choice. If there are no calls, it will result in a behind the play leg slash, which then results. . . . you get it!!
